Murideo Fox & Hound: Testing & Troubleshooting Kit - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1 of 24 Old 07-06-2017, 03:18 PM - Thread Starter
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Murideo Fox & Hound: Testing & Troubleshooting Kit



New from Murideo, the Fox & Hound Testing and Troubleshooting Kit simplifies end to end system testing in an affordable, handheld, battery-powered device.

The “Fox and Hound HDMI Sidekick” is the ideal on the run video and audio distribution troubleshooting tool. Distribution issues driving you crazy? Cut your in-the-field troubleshooting time in fractions by using this new state of the art tool.

HDMI is the standard in the current AV Industry. HDCP, Bandwidth, and EDID issues being common occurrences working with HDMI. In order to work though these issues you must have a way to generate a multitude of precise resolutions along with varying bandwidths through the distribuiton system, and analyze that signal throughout. This Fox and Hound does just that.

The Fox and Hound comes with a hand-held 4K Generator, and 4K Analyzer all in a custom carrying case, a must have in every integrator's truck.

http://www.murideo.com/fox--hound-hd...oting-kit.html

This product will be shipping Quarter 2, 2017.

Fox & Hound are stand-alone units, they are not integrated to work with PC Calibration software.

For more info: http://www.svconline.com/thewire/mur...ing-kit/409081

AVPRO will have it's own version with AVPRO Logo: http://www.avproconnect.com/uploads/..._and_hound.pdf



http://www.avproconnect.com/fox--hou...799a079299bde9

AVPRO edition is giving also the ''AVProConnect's 10 Year Warranty''.

AVPRO is giving an additional warranty also: ''It also applies to the Fox & Hound. That means if there is a problem with the device, we will make it right. We will get you a new one immediately and a return label to send your old one in.

We know how integrators are. If your Fox & Hound breaks from something out of AVProConnect'\s control (such as; being smashed by an 8ft rack falling over, dropped in toilet when analyzing that bathroom display, left in a snow pile overnight on accident, struck by lightning, or whatever) We will replace your unit for $999.00, for life.''

SpectraCal will offer their own edition with SpectraCAL logo named as ''SpectraCal VideoForge Pro 4K HDR pattern generator'' with different firmware and patterns. It will integrate with CalMAN for patch generation.


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S/W: LightSpace CMS, SpaceMan ICC, SpaceMatch DCM, CalMAN 5, CalMAN RGB, ChromaPure, ControlCAL
V/P: eeColor 3D LUT Box - P/G: DVDO AVLab TPG
Meters: JETI Specbos 1211, Klein K-10A, i1PRO2, i1PRO, SpectraCAL C6, i1D3, C5

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post #2 of 24 Old 07-07-2017, 09:19 AM
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Originally Posted by ConnecTEDDD View Post


New from Murideo, the Fox & Hound Testing and Troubleshooting Kit simplifies end to end system testing in an affordable, handheld, battery-powered device.

The “Fox and Hound HDMI Sidekick” is the ideal on the run video and audio distribution troubleshooting tool. Distribution issues driving you crazy? Cut your in-the-field troubleshooting time in fractions by using this new state of the art tool.

HDMI is the standard in the current AV Industry. HDCP, Bandwidth, and EDID issues being common occurrences working with HDMI. In order to work though these issues you must have a way to generate a multitude of precise resolutions along with varying bandwidths through the distribuiton system, and analyze that signal throughout. This Fox and Hound does just that.

The Fox and Hound comes with a hand-held 4K Generator, and 4K Analyzer all in a custom carrying case, a must have in every integrator's truck.

http://www.murideo.com/fox--hound-hd...oting-kit.html

This product will be shipping Quarter 2, 2017.

For more info: http://www.svconline.com/thewire/mur...ing-kit/409081

AVPRO has it's re-branded version with AVPRO Logo: http://www.avproconnect.com/uploads/..._and_hound.pdf



http://www.avproconnect.com/fox--hou...799a079299bde9

AVPRO edition is giving also the ''AVProConnect's 10 Year Warranty''.

AVPRO is giving an additional warranty also: ''It also applies to the Fox & Hound. That means if there is a problem with the device, we will make it right. We will get you a new one immediately and a return label to send your old one in.

We know how integrators are. If your Fox & Hound breaks from something out of AVProConnect'\s control (such as; being smashed by an 8ft rack falling over, dropped in toilet when analyzing that bathroom display, left in a snow pile overnight on accident, struck by lightning, or whatever) We will replace your unit for $999.00, for life.''

SpectraCal will offer their own re-branded edition with SpectraCAL logo named as ''SpectraCal VideoForge Pro 4K HDR pattern generator''

The VideoForge Pro is not a rebrand, it will have completely different firmware, patterns, and functionality. The Fox & Hound will not support CalMAN/PC control at all.

Tyler Pruitt - Technical Liaison at SpectraCal

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post #3 of 24 Old 07-07-2017, 09:27 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by WiFi-Spy View Post
The VideoForge Pro is not a rebrand, it will have completely different firmware, patterns, and functionality. The Fox & Hound will not support CalMAN/PC control at all.
Ok, original post corrected. So Fox & Hound are not working with any PC calibration software while VideoForge Pro will work as patch generation for CalMAN.

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post #4 of 24 Old 07-12-2017, 12:10 AM
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Originally Posted by WiFi-Spy View Post
The VideoForge Pro is not a rebrand, it will have completely different firmware, patterns, and functionality. The Fox & Hound will not support CalMAN/PC control at all.


Hi,
I saw that the VideoForge Pro is for sale from Spectracal, but is there any chance it will get an analyzer to be used along with the generator to support the same test features as the Fox & Hound kit - in adition to being a full fledged 4K signal generator for calibration?


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post #5 of 24 Old 07-12-2017, 12:52 AM
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Murideo have also been talking to us about having a 'special' version for LightSpace integration, but we do not like the idea of having hardware locked to specific software, so we are more interested in getting generic connection capability, as with just about all other hardwre...

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post #6 of 24 Old 07-12-2017, 01:10 AM
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Goran, that set you ask for (from Murideo/AVproconnect atleast) is the Murideo Six-G and Six-A pairing.

Their marketing let them down somewhat with the fox and hound as it is slightly misleading in that it doesn't specifically state that it doesn't work with software.
I made the assumption when they sent me the marketing for it a few days after delivery of the Six-G and Six-A, kinda jumped on them feeling ripped. But alas I assumed incorrectly.
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post #7 of 24 Old 07-12-2017, 03:18 AM - Thread Starter
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A/V Testing and Troubleshooting Kit

Quote:
Originally Posted by <^..^>Smokey Joe View Post
Goran, that set you ask for (from Murideo/AVproconnect atleast) is the Murideo Six-G and Six-A pairing.

Their marketing let them down somewhat with the fox and hound as it is slightly misleading in that it doesn't specifically state that it doesn't work with software.
I made the assumption when they sent me the marketing for it a few days after delivery of the Six-G and Six-A, kinda jumped on them feeling ripped. But alas I assumed incorrectly.
These 2 new devices will not work with any calibration software, this is why they advertised as ''A/V Testing and Troubleshooting Kit'' and not as pattern generator solution, for that reason they have internal battery, to work stand-alone.

About VideoForge Pro from SpectraCAL, to their site it says that ''HDCP 2.2, HDMI 2.0(a), UHD resolutions up to 60p, BT.2020 (RGB output), up to 12-bit deep color.'', so seems that it can't output YCbCr REC.2020 , maybe this is a limitation to make a difference with the Six-G.

VideoForge Pro is locked to work only with CalMAN while Six-G can work with LightSpace/ChromaPure and CalMAN also.

Ted's LightSpace CMS Calibration Disk Free Version for Free Calibration Software: LightSpace DPS / CalMAN ColorChecker / HCFR
S/W: LightSpace CMS, SpaceMan ICC, SpaceMatch DCM, CalMAN 5, CalMAN RGB, ChromaPure, ControlCAL
V/P: eeColor 3D LUT Box - P/G: DVDO AVLab TPG
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post #8 of 24 Old 07-12-2017, 03:36 AM
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Originally Posted by <^..^>Smokey Joe View Post
Goran, that set you ask for (from Murideo/AVproconnect atleast) is the Murideo Six-G and Six-A pairing.

I guess it would be to good to be true if they all of a sudden released a kit that would do the same as the Six-G/A kit does, but for half the price:-) I have used the Six-G a couple of times, and the Six-G/A kit is on my shortlist now that I'm looking for a replacement for my QD780. I haven't used the HDMI testing capabilities of my QD that much, but it has been a great tool when I actually did need it. I would really like to be able to have that functionality available in my kit, but I guess it all comes down to price.

I was hoping that with the Spectracal version based on the same platform as the Muridio there was the possibility of an analyzer option, but I guess that might be hoping for to much.

Based on MSRP it would be 500USD saved by getting the Spectracal generator for integration with software and the Fox/Hound kit for testing and troubleshooting. Does anyone know if there is anything the Six-G/A kit can do, that would not be covered by the Spectracal generator paired with a Fox/Hound kit? I guess that the Spectracal generator will only be possible to use with CalMAN unlike the Six-G, but other than that in regards of functionality comparing the two generators?


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post #9 of 24 Old 07-12-2017, 03:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ConnecTEDDD View Post
About VideoForge Pro from SpectraCAL, to their site it says that ''HDCP 2.2, HDMI 2.0(a), UHD resolutions up to 60p, BT.2020 (RGB output), up to 12-bit deep color.'', so seems that it can't output YCbCr REC.2020 , maybe this is a limitation to make a difference with the Six-G.
Good point that you made while I was writing my post.


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post #10 of 24 Old 07-12-2017, 03:45 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Goran View Post
I guess it would be to good to be true if they all of a sudden released a kit that would do the same as the Six-G/A kit does, but for half the price:-) I have used the Six-G a couple of times, and the Six-G/A kit is on my shortlist now that I'm looking for a replacement for my QD780. I haven't used the HDMI testing capabilities of my QD that much, but it has been a great tool when I actually did need it. I would really like to be able to have that functionality available in my kit, but I guess it all comes down to price.

I was hoping that with the Spectracal version based on the same platform as the Muridio there was the possibility of an analyzer option, but I guess that might be hoping for to much.

Based on MSRP it would be 500USD saved by getting the Spectracal generator for integration with software and the Fox/Hound kit for testing and troubleshooting. Does anyone know if there is anything the Six-G/A kit can do, that would not be covered by the Spectracal generator paired with a Fox/Hound kit? I guess that the Spectracal generator will only be possible to use with CalMAN unlike the Six-G, but other than that in regards of functionality comparing the two generators?


Regards
Gøran
Hi Gøran,

To get exact the differences between these 2 products, contact Murideo directly.

Also about Analyzer see upcoming AccuPel DGA-6000 Ultra Plus with Pro Engineering Option, it has pixel color checker for HDR also: http://www.accupel.com/Analyzer.html

...which is both pattern generator and analyser. (not DV patch generator currently but there plans to be added) It works with CalMAN/ChromaPure and probably LightSpace (if there interest for this device from LightSpace users.)

Fox-Hound seems more a solution to check cabling of a complex setup with many signal distribution; to locate which cable is faulty etc.

From Six-A if you exclude the cable testing feature, the info it can display from incoming signal is nothing more that a HD Fury Linker or Integral can display.

Ted's LightSpace CMS Calibration Disk Free Version for Free Calibration Software: LightSpace DPS / CalMAN ColorChecker / HCFR
S/W: LightSpace CMS, SpaceMan ICC, SpaceMatch DCM, CalMAN 5, CalMAN RGB, ChromaPure, ControlCAL
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post #11 of 24 Old 07-12-2017, 04:08 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
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Good point that you made while I was writing my post.


Gøran
About DV Patch generation, if you have a notebook with accurate RGB output, you can use it as pattern generator for DV.

Intel or NVidia with proper configuration may have accurate output while AMD's have less possibilities.

CalMAN has a specific image which will show if it can trigger DV mode, RGB 1080p 8bit signal is required (not 2160p) only.

If the VideoForge PRO can do only RGB HDR10 (and not YCbCr HDR10) then a combo of a 1080p pattern generator with HD Linker will have the same results for HDR10, since the 1080p pattern generator is a known reference (like DVDO, Accupel 5000 etc.) and HD Linker will do the upscale from 1080p to 2160p24 and add the metadata infoframe you like.

I have checked with DVDO Color Checker function the digital levels of the HD Linker in the video chain and it's not altering the video signal, so it's transparent.

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post #12 of 24 Old 07-13-2017, 12:21 AM
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Also about Analyzer see upcoming AccuPel DGA-6000 Ultra Plus with Pro Engineering Option, it has pixel color checker for HDR also: http://www.accupel.com/Analyzer.html

...which is both pattern generator and analyser. (not DV patch generator currently but there plans to be added) It works with CalMAN/ChromaPure and probably LightSpace (if there interest for this device from LightSpace users.)
I was surprised to find that the AccuPel DGA-6000 didn't work with LightSpace in it's current state.
It did work with CalMAN just by choosing the DVG-5000 model option before it was officially supported in the current build.

If both programs use the same driver and Greg Rogers advised that everything common to the older generator is backward compatible should't it be possible to use LightSpace Ted?

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post #13 of 24 Old 07-13-2017, 12:54 AM
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The main limitation with the Accupel DGA-6000 is where the installer or calibrator needs to test in-bedded HDMI cables in two locations, different rooms etc. That is where the Fox and hound, Six-G and Six-A have an advantage.

Another main difference between the Accupel DGA-6000 and the Murideo units is the Murideo analyzers have bit counters, which is one of the two main tests on cables and devices.

The Accupel arguably (going by the website data) displays better detail of video data, where as the Six-G and A you really need to process that information connected to the companion software.

I expect 1-2 years from now these products will mature into far more advanced tool kits, right now they are all focused on the main 4k+HDR and a few point differences.
The bit counts is the main point difference and why I got the Six-G and Six-A paring as I can sell this feature to local installers as a service.

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post #14 of 24 Old 07-13-2017, 02:12 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ips View Post
I was surprised to find that the AccuPel DGA-6000 didn't work with LightSpace in it's current state.
It did work with CalMAN just by choosing the DVG-5000 model option before it was officially supported in the current build.

If both programs use the same driver and Greg Rogers advised that everything common to the older generator is backward compatible should't it be possible to use LightSpace Ted?
LightIllussion has see zero interest from users so they have not even looked at the device.

If there is interest, it would be possible to see what, if anything, is needed.

However, if it uses the same API as the older Accupel DVG-5000 it may possibly work anyway, with any specific settings required set locally.

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post #15 of 24 Old 08-08-2017, 08:50 PM
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Originally Posted by ConnecTEDDD View Post
LightIllussion has see zero interest from users so they have not even looked at the device.

If there is interest, it would be possible to see what, if anything, is needed.

However, if it uses the same API as the older Accupel DVG-5000 it may possibly work anyway, with any specific settings required set locally.
Do you know what doesn't work? One specific function or the entire program? Nothing has changed in the API for functions that are common with the DVG-5000, but if they have keyed their program to the model ID that could stop it from working.

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Do you know what doesn't work? One specific function or the entire program? Nothing has changed in the API for functions that are common with the DVG-5000, but if they have keyed their program to the model ID that could stop it from working.
Hi Greg,

Please contact Steve Shaw: http://www.lightillusion.com/contact.html

LightIllusion will need a test unit to check or add integration of Accupel to LightSpace or any other details beyond the ones can be found to the last pages of 6000 manual.

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Hi Greg,

LightSpace doesn't recognise the Ultra as a patch generator. I have tried it.
I thought it would work as a 5000 with any additional features selected from the generator menu but it doesn't.

The 6000 did work with CalMAN (even before it was officially supported) by choosing the 5000 option.
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Hi Greg,

LightSpace doesn't recognise the Ultra as a patch generator. I have tried it.
I thought it would work as a 5000 with any additional features selected from the generator menu but it doesn't.

The 6000 did work with CalMAN (even before it was officially supported) by choosing the 5000 option.
If LightSpace (or any program) doesn't recognize the Ultra or Ultra Plus, i.e. won't send it any commands, then the program is probably using the firmware Ver? query to verify what product it is and decide whether to transmit commands or not. The Ver? response from the DGA-6000 starts with "DGA-6000...." while the Ver? response from the DVG-5000 starts with "DVG-5000...".

Other than that query response difference, and obviously serial number query responses, there are no differences between the DGA-6000 and DVG-5000 USB commands for common features. i.e. virtually all DVG-5000 commands work with the DGA-6000 (the 1080p24sf [segmented frame] and 1080p48 formats are no longer included in the DGA-6000).

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post #19 of 24 Old 08-11-2017, 06:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gregr View Post
If LightSpace (or any program) doesn't recognize the Ultra or Ultra Plus, i.e. won't send it any commands, then the program is probably using the firmware Ver? query to verify what product it is and decide whether to transmit commands or not. The Ver? response from the DGA-6000 starts with "DGA-6000...." while the Ver? response from the DVG-5000 starts with "DVG-5000...".

Other than that query response difference, and obviously serial number query responses, there are no differences between the DGA-6000 and DVG-5000 USB commands for common features. i.e. virtually all DVG-5000 commands work with the DGA-6000 (the 1080p24sf [segmented frame] and 1080p48 formats are no longer included in the DGA-6000).
Greg is right about this. I have used the 6000 extensively in ChromaPure just by selecting the 5000 as the target generator. The basic patch generation commands are the same.

One thing you could do to get more information is to download a program, such as Device Monitoring Studio, to monitor the serial commands that are sent by Lightspace to the 6000, and then I could determine whether they were the proper commands.

Tom Huffman
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post #20 of 24 Old 08-11-2017, 09:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gregr View Post
If LightSpace (or any program) doesn't recognize the Ultra or Ultra Plus, i.e. won't send it any commands, then the program is probably using the firmware Ver? query to verify what product it is and decide whether to transmit commands or not. The Ver? response from the DGA-6000 starts with "DGA-6000...." while the Ver? response from the DVG-5000 starts with "DVG-5000...".

Other than that query response difference, and obviously serial number query responses, there are no differences between the DGA-6000 and DVG-5000 USB commands for common features. i.e. virtually all DVG-5000 commands work with the DGA-6000 (the 1080p24sf [segmented frame] and 1080p48 formats are no longer included in the DGA-6000).
The guys at LightSpace were able to get the program to recognise the 6000 as a 5000 unit (I tested a beta version with mine).
It doesn't behave like a 5000 though (at least with LightSpace), as the generator won't set a particular colour patch once asked to do so.

They don't have an Ultra unit on site for testing and integration so can't take this further at present.
It is strange though as I used it with other programs just by selecting the 5000 option and it worked off the bat.

Ivan Samuel
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post #21 of 24 Old 08-11-2017, 11:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ips View Post
The guys at LightSpace were able to get the program to recognise the 6000 as a 5000 unit (I tested a beta version with mine).
It doesn't behave like a 5000 though (at least with LightSpace), as the generator won't set a particular colour patch once asked to do so.

They don't have an Ultra unit on site for testing and integration so can't take this further at present.
It is strange though as I used it with other programs just by selecting the 5000 option and it worked off the bat.
As Tom said, and you have seen, the commands are the same. Within a few days I'm going to post the new, free DGA-6000 AccuPel Desktop App on the AccuPel website that provides full generator control and sends RGB triplet commands to create window colors. And I didn't change a single line of code related to setting up custom window colors from the previous DGA-5000 AccuPel Desktop App. I just had to add the new UHD 2160p formats, some commands for new patterns, and a new tab page to the app that sets up Rec 2020, HLG and HDR10 metadata. But none of that has anything to do with the setting up or defining custom window colors.

I guess we will have to talk to them and find out what they are doing, or as Tom suggested get someone to monitor what USB commands they are sending to the DGA-6000. Crazy, but there's always some simple explanation as soon as we get a chance to look at it. Thanks for bringing it to our attention.

Greg Rogers
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post #22 of 24 Old 08-12-2017, 02:48 AM
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It's not an Accupel issue.
It's a timing issue within LightSpace.
It looks like the 6000 is faster in responding to a given command, and LightSpace is 'missing' part of the response...
Almost impossible for us to 'correct' this without access to a box.

Steve

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post #23 of 24 Old 08-12-2017, 08:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ips View Post
The guys at LightSpace were able to get the program to recognise the 6000 as a 5000 unit (I tested a beta version with mine).
It doesn't behave like a 5000 though (at least with LightSpace), as the generator won't set a particular colour patch once asked to do so.

They don't have an Ultra unit on site for testing and integration so can't take this further at present.
It is strange though as I used it with other programs just by selecting the 5000 option and it worked off the bat.
Ivan, since you live in the U.K. would you be willing to loan LightSpace your 6000 for a few days so they can fix this?

Tom Huffman
ChromaPure Software/AccuPel Video Signal Generators
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post #24 of 24 Old 08-12-2017, 09:27 AM
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Originally Posted by TomHuffman View Post
Ivan, since you live in the U.K. would you be willing to loan LightSpace your 6000 for a few days so they can fix this?
Steve has already asked me the same question.

Yes, although I don't know when that will be.
I'm quite busy with bookings at the moment and have now sold my 5000 and HDfury Linker so don't have a backup generator I could use.

Ivan Samuel
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