C6 HDR2000 colorimeter from SpectraCal - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1 of 54 Old 07-13-2017, 04:49 PM - Thread Starter
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C6 HDR2000 colorimeter from SpectraCal

Received an email today announcing this meter. $350 with a C6 trade in, $499 with any other meter trade in, or $795 without trade.

https://store.portrait.com/meters/sp...lorimeter.html
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post #2 of 54 Old 07-13-2017, 04:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by njfoses View Post
Received an email today announcing this meter. $350 with a C6 trade in, $499 with any other meter trade in, or $795 without trade.



https://store.portrait.com/meters/sp...lorimeter.html


I'm still lack the hdr pattern generator, do you know of any free one that I can use? I don't want to jump in on this meter and can't use it


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post #3 of 54 Old 07-13-2017, 04:54 PM
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Originally Posted by kanti123 View Post
I'm still lack the hdr pattern generator, do you know of any free one that I can use? I don't want to jump in on this meter and can't use it


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There is no such thing as a free hdr pattern generator. You can however purchase hdr patterns to play via USB or via UHD Blu-Ray(soon).

http://diversifiedvideosolutions.com

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post #4 of 54 Old 07-13-2017, 07:12 PM
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Got the same email. Wondering if it would be smarter to trade in my i1 Display PRO and take advantage of the upgrade discount instead of getting a used i1 PRO for profiling. Hmmm...
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post #5 of 54 Old 07-14-2017, 02:26 AM
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Looking at the PR image of this probe it would appear that an ND filter is used to extend the peak brightness range?
If so, what impact does that have on the blacks/shadows readings, especially as the i1D3 (which the C6 is) already struggles with low-light readings at the levels demanded for PQ based HDR on OLEDs and the like?
As a high proportion of the HDR signal is very low, due to the PQ EOTF, any compromise in the probe's ability to read the shadows accurately will greatly affect the overall accuracy of any final calibration.

I could be wrong, but that is what the PR image suggests is being used, and I can see no other way to extend the peak luma capability of the i1D3.

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post #6 of 54 Old 07-14-2017, 03:15 AM
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I have noticed the same....seems there is an attached ND filter (Neutral Density Attenuation Filter) visible in this photo:



But the pictures @ shop page are showing a normal C6 without anything attached:




While this has been discussed at 2015: ''The SpectraCAL's C6 measuring capability is up to 1.000 cd/m2 (manufacturer specifications) which is not enough for HDR. For higher luminance levels you will need to add a Neutral Density Attenuation Filter that can extend C6's measuring range to some thousands of cd/m2's, so this is not a feature that can be added by just a software release only.''

Because ND filter will shift the colors, this is why you need to re-profile using a reference spectro or the same meter without the filter attached, as has posted at past here:

''Hi, You have to profile your i1D3 (with the filter) using the id3 as a reference without the filter.

Doing this you will have a 3x3 matrix that will correct the ND filter.

You can use 75% Stimulus patterns to create that meter correction table.
''

But by using ND filter while it will extend the peak luminance capability you reducing also the low luminance capability, what is the solution to this? Does any test show that it's tracking the reference (Minolta in that case) down to any low luminance levels...comparable to the tracking of a classic C6?

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post #7 of 54 Old 07-14-2017, 07:02 AM
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@njfoses
Nevermind. I found it.

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post #8 of 54 Old 07-14-2017, 12:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ConnecTEDDD View Post
I have noticed the same....seems there is an attached ND filter (Neutral Density Attenuation Filter) visible in this photo:



But the pictures @ shop page are showing a normal C6 without anything attached:




While this has been discussed at 2015: ''The SpectraCAL's C6 measuring capability is up to 1.000 cd/m2 (manufacturer specifications) which is not enough for HDR. For higher luminance levels you will need to add a Neutral Density Attenuation Filter that can extend C6's measuring range to some thousands of cd/m2's, so this is not a feature that can be added by just a software release only.''

Because ND filter will shift the colors, this is why you need to re-profile using a reference spectro or the same meter without the filter attached, as has posted at past here:

''Hi, You have to profile your i1D3 (with the filter) using the id3 as a reference without the filter.

Doing this you will have a 3x3 matrix that will correct the ND filter.

You can use 75% Stimulus patterns to create that meter correction table.
''

But by using ND filter while it will extend the peak luminance capability you reducing also the low luminance capability, what is the solution to this? Does any test show that it's tracking the reference (Minolta in that case) down to any low luminance levels...comparable to the tracking of a classic C6?


There is no filter, it is a new hardware revision from our manufacturing partner, X-rite.

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post #9 of 54 Old 07-14-2017, 12:44 PM
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Originally Posted by WiFi-Spy View Post
There is no filter, it is a new hardware revision from our manufacturing partner, X-rite.
Cool, which is the correct picture of the meter, the one from the e-letter or one from the site?

It the low end capabilities changed also (can go below 0.003 cd/m2) or any other improvement?

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post #10 of 54 Old 07-14-2017, 12:45 PM
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It is an internals upgrade only. The outside looks the same.

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post #11 of 54 Old 07-14-2017, 12:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WiFi-Spy View Post
It is an internals upgrade only. The outside looks the same.
Interesting

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post #12 of 54 Old 07-14-2017, 01:04 PM
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@WiFi-Spy What about black level accuracy?

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post #13 of 54 Old 07-14-2017, 06:34 PM
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What's the max nit range of a standard iD3?

While I am calibrating HDR, my TV is an LG C6 so nits aren't even near 1000. But wondering if I shouldn't jump on this for future proofing reasons since TV's will undoubtedly keep getting brighter.

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post #14 of 54 Old 07-14-2017, 06:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigCoolJesus View Post
What's the max nit range of a standard iD3?

While I am calibrating HDR, my TV is an LG C6 so nits aren't even near 1000. But wondering if I shouldn't jump on this for future proofing reasons since TV's will undoubtedly keep getting brighter.

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1000 nits. Some can go to 1300, and these are the ones tested and selected by SpectraCal for the C-6 HDR model.

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post #15 of 54 Old 07-14-2017, 06:52 PM
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1000 nits. Some can go to 1300, and these are the ones tested and selected by SpectraCal for the C-6 HDR model.
Thanks

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post #16 of 54 Old 07-15-2017, 11:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WiFi-Spy View Post
There is no filter, it is a new hardware revision from our manufacturing partner, X-rite.

I wonder if this also means X-Rite will be releasing a new revision of the i1 Display PRO on their end?
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post #17 of 54 Old 07-15-2017, 11:41 AM
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Originally Posted by DarkHorse88 View Post
I wonder if this also means X-Rite will be releasing a new revision of the i1 Display PRO on their end?
Not sure about that, but I guess it would make sense...
But, at a similar price point (ok, a bit more expensive) I'd probably go with a Discus.
It has better low-light capabilities than the i1D3 and its derivates, and will read up to 2500 nits.
(And has glass optics, not plastic, and a laser alignment capability).
http://www.basiccolor.de/basiccolor-discus-en/

Definitely worth considering.

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post #18 of 54 Old 07-15-2017, 11:56 AM
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From users I know with Discus, it's sure faster from i1D3, it can read lower luminance levels and also can be used from CalMAN Enthousiast/LightSpace/Chromapure. Also it has about 17 empty slots you can load there your custom correction cables and load the same correction from any software later

It's more thermal stable because it's outer metal cover and it's coming with certification of performance also...but ~$200 more expensive from C6 HDR2000 (which will work only for CalMAN).

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So cut-throat in here.

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post #20 of 54 Old 07-15-2017, 12:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ConnecTEDDD View Post
From users I know with Discus, it's sure faster from i1D3, it can read lower luminance levels and also can be used from CalMAN Enthousiast/LightSpace/Chromapure. Also it has about 17 empty slots you can load there your custom correction cables and load the same correction from any software later

It's more thermal stable because it's outer metal cover and it's coming with certification of performance also...but ~$200 more expensive from C6 HDR2000 (which will work only for CalMAN).
Regarding lower luminance reading ability: if one has an OLED where black is known to be 0.0000 without measuring and the lowest luminance needing to be measured is a 5% IRE pattern, there's no need for a meter that can read extremely low, right?

Just speaking for my needs. Since my LG OLED doesn't go above about 700 nits and black is black without needing measured, plus I just got an i1 Pro2 to profile, my iD3 is probably good enough for my purposes I'd suspect.

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post #21 of 54 Old 07-15-2017, 12:20 PM
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Originally Posted by BigCoolJesus View Post
Regarding lower luminance reading ability: if one has an OLED where black is known to be 0.0000 without measuring and the lowest luminance needing to be measured is a 5% IRE pattern, there's no need for a meter that can read extremely low, right?

Just speaking for my needs. Since my LG OLED doesn't go above about 700 nits and black is black without needing measured, plus I just got an i1 Pro2 to profile, my iD3 is probably good enough for my purposes I'd suspect.

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700 nit display @ 5% Grayscale it has target of 0.061 nit @ HDR10 mode.

With manual cal of 21-Point Grayscale, you will notice much difference when you have on OLED, but if you do 3D LUT which measure a lot lower luminance levels of a lot of RGB triplet combinations then you will see improvement from better low light accuracy and faster speed. When you will measure a projector also with manual cal a meter with better lower-light handling will provide more accurate readings (and faster also).

With OLED and manual cal, you will be fine with normal i1d3 for the next 2 years probably if you do calibration for HDR, for SDR since the peak output level target is a lot of lower you will have no problem for a lot of years.

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post #22 of 54 Old 07-15-2017, 12:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ConnecTEDDD View Post
700 nit display @ 5% Grayscale it has target of 0.061 nit @ HDR10 mode.

With manual cal of 21-Point Grayscale, you will notice much difference when you have on OLED, but if you do 3D LUT which measure a lot lower luminance levels of a lot of RGB triplet combinations then you will see improvement from better low light accuracy and faster speed. When you will measure a projector also with manual cal a meter with better lower-light handling will provide more accurate readings (and faster also).

With OLED and manual cal, you will be fine with normal i1d3 for the next 2 years probably if you do calibration for HDR, for SDR since the peak output level target is a lot of lower you will have no problem for a lot of years.
Thanks!

So I suppose it would be a good idea to start saving a little money away in anticipation of getting a new meter down the road if I want to continue doing HDR calibrations as OLED technology (nits) progress?

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Quote:
Originally Posted by ConnecTEDDD View Post
From users I know with Discus, it's sure faster from i1D3, it can read lower luminance levels and also can be used from CalMAN Enthousiast/LightSpace/Chromapure. Also it has about 17 empty slots you can load there your custom correction cables and load the same correction from any software later

It's more thermal stable because it's outer metal cover and it's coming with certification of performance also...but ~$200 more expensive from C6 HDR2000 (which will work only for CalMAN).
Quote:
Originally Posted by Light Illusion View Post
Not sure about that, but I guess it would make sense...
But, at a similar price point (ok, a bit more expensive) I'd probably go with a Discus.
It has better low-light capabilities than the i1D3 and its derivates, and will read up to 2500 nits.
(And has glass optics, not plastic, and a laser alignment capability).
http://www.basiccolor.de/basiccolor-discus-en/

Definitely worth considering.

Steve
Please go post in the "Discus" thread.

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post #24 of 54 Old 07-16-2017, 02:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WiFi-Spy View Post
It is an internals upgrade only. The outside looks the same.
It says that C6 HDR2000 exceeding 2000nits, is this a unit-to unit variation, I mean the NIST for HDR peak luminance which is provided it's saying exact the max luminance level the meter it's capable to measure?

For example is it will capable to measure Sony ZD9 which has a calibrated output of about 2090 nits (as measured @ Value Electronics 2017 TV Shootout)

While you support that there internal upgrade only, I don't understand the reason of the attached picture which for sure an attached ND filter; probably a ND 0.3 model which will cut 50% the incoming light, so it can make a 1000 nit meter to measure 2000 nit.

If the above picture was more clear; then I had no reason to disagree that the upgrade is internal only, but I see an external change since the optics picture of i1D3/C6 is very familiar.


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post #25 of 54 Old 07-16-2017, 03:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ConnecTEDDD View Post




It says that C6 HDR2000 exceeding 2000nits, is this a unit-to unit variation, I mean the NIST for HDR peak luminance which is provided it's saying exact the max luminance level the meter it's capable to measure?

For example is it will capable to measure Sony ZD9 which has a calibrated output of about 2090 nits (as measured @ Value Electronics 2017 TV Shootout)

While you support that there internal upgrade only, I don't understand the reason of the attached picture which for sure an attached ND filter; probably a ND 0.3 model which will cut 50% the incoming light, so it can make a 1000 nit meter to measure 2000 nit.

If the above picture was more clear; then I had no reason to disagree that the upgrade is internal only, but I see an external change since the optics picture of i1D3/C6 is very familiar.



That was a marketing photo and not the actual device.

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post #26 of 54 Old 07-16-2017, 03:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WiFi-Spy View Post
That was a marketing photo and not the actual device.
Now it's very clear.

Can you comment from my other question about max luminance nits levels?

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post #27 of 54 Old 07-16-2017, 09:19 PM
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What about us that have C6 HDR , how much is the trade in ?
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post #28 of 54 Old 07-17-2017, 02:58 AM
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Do the C6 and it's variants only work with Calman?

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post #29 of 54 Old 07-17-2017, 08:37 AM
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Quote:
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Do the C6 and it's variants only work with Calman?

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As a C-6 with its expanded display profiles, yes. These are contained within CalMAN. To other 3rd-party software, it should look like and work the same as an OEM I1D3. Not sure if the HDR and HDR2000 models will work to their upper luminance limits with other software.

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post #30 of 54 Old 07-17-2017, 08:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigCoolJesus View Post
Thanks!

So I suppose it would be a good idea to start saving a little money away in anticipation of getting a new meter down the road if I want to continue doing HDR calibrations as OLED technology (nits) progress?

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For any of the HDR displays. I anticipate that it won't be long before the other technologies (quantum dot, QLED, etc.) used currently for HDR sets leave 2016 and 2017 models in the dust in terms of peak brightness...

...Royce...

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