Video Bias Lighting (SMPTE Recommended Practice- CIE D65/6500K White Light Only) - Page 11 - AVS Forum
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post #301 of 1810 Old 01-19-2006, 02:07 PM
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George - One user in this thread mentioned a problem he had with plugging your light into the receiver to turn on when TV (receiver) turns on, and that this caused his bulb to burn out in 3 months. Is this mode of operation not recommended?

I would like to have the light on during use of the TV, but off while TV is off. Plugging it into the receiver seems to be the best way to achieve this. If this isn't recommended, can you provide an alternate method?

Thanks.

m2
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post #302 of 1810 Old 01-19-2006, 02:15 PM
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mangriotis,

I replace failed product within the warranty period. There should be no problem with using just about any external switch. Using the light for all viewing, in addition to dark room sessions, may be convenient but wastes much of the lamp life. Bias lighting is only effective or needful in a dark room. There are a variety of remotely controlled on/off switches on our web site.

Best regards and beautiful pictures,
G. Alan Brown, President
CinemaQuest, Inc.

"Advancing the art and science of electronic imaging"
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post #303 of 1810 Old 01-20-2006, 07:25 AM
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Thanks for the info on this thread. I've ordered the Idea-Lume Standard and look forward to receiving it!

Barry
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post #304 of 1810 Old 01-20-2006, 12:52 PM
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I have the Panelight on order. I will do a full review when I set it up and use it for a few days.

Stay tuned!

John

Thanks!
John
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post #305 of 1810 Old 01-20-2006, 12:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mangriotis View Post

George - One user in this thread mentioned a problem he had with plugging your light into the receiver to turn on when TV (receiver) turns on, and that this caused his bulb to burn out in 3 months. Is this mode of operation not recommended?

I would like to have the light on during use of the TV, but off while TV is off. Plugging it into the receiver seems to be the best way to achieve this. If this isn't recommended, can you provide an alternate method?

Thanks.

I use an IR-543 (IR to X10 converter) and a Smarthome appliance module to turn my Ideallume bias light on/off via remote. Works great. Couldn't be happier.

Cory
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post #306 of 1810 Old 01-23-2006, 05:50 PM
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Well after all the talk about this I decided to try it out. For starters I went the cheap route with rope light from Home Depot. I followed the other posters advice about using a 6' and 2' section for a 42" plasma. I also bought the U shaped track that has double sided tape to hold it to the back of the panel. So for a grand total of $11 this really made a difference for night time viewing of movies.

I am interested in getting the Ideal-lume now but I have a shallow wall mount that maybe has a 1/2" gap between it and the panel for light to show through and no gap on the sides. So how would that work?

Anyway here is a pic of what the panel looks like with the rope backlight on...

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post #307 of 1810 Old 01-23-2006, 06:23 PM
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Quote:
I am interested in getting the Ideal-lume now but I have a shallow wall mount that maybe has a 1/2" gap between it and the panel for light to show through and no gap on the sides. So how would that work?

The Ideal-Lume Panelight is 7/8" thick, so you would have to shim out the mount. Most panels have a bevel on the back side at the outer edges that allows more space behind the perimeter. Most mounts are not as low profile as yours.

The SMPTE document that recommends backlighting of video displays spends most of its time addressing the importance of using an illuminant that is as close to CIE D65 (D6500K) as possible. They were most concerned about preserving correct color perception of the TV image while incorporating bias lighting. Using the wrong color of light will alter the viewer's color perception.

Once again, the color of the wall behind the TV should be neutral. Its coloration can alter the color of the light reflected by it. However, if there is some coloration in the wall, a 6500K illumination will still be better than any other color of light. The wrong color of light only adds more color to the reflected illumination. Your rope light is not likely the same color as video white. You get to decide what's most important to you in your installation.

Best regards and beautiful pictures,
G. Alan Brown, President
CinemaQuest, Inc.

"Advancing the art and science of electronic imaging"
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post #308 of 1810 Old 01-23-2006, 06:47 PM
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Thanks George. There is at least an 1.25" between the back of the panel and the wall, I was talking about the gap between the mount and the back of the panel and how light would shine thru that if I mounted a light in the center of the back, but I see you mentioned the Panelight which I somehow missed before so that solves that problem. And i would get 2 of those to cover all 4 sides if I wanted. Is that recommended or necessary?

Right now the wall is anything but neutral. It's a green color, like avocado skin, not my choice. Currently I'm in the process of mounting things to the walls and moving things around. Once that is all complete I'll be painting the room either a neutral taupe or stone color. Thats when the plasma will be off the wall again and then I'll use the proper Ideal-lume light. I just wasn't sure I'd like the effect so for $11 the rope light was an easy test.
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post #309 of 1810 Old 01-23-2006, 09:31 PM
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With that small of a panel I would suggest starting with just the 2 fixtures that come in the Panelight model. If that doesn't give you enough coverage you can consider adding one or two more fixtures. Installing them closer to the mount, instead of toward the outer perimeter of the TV, tends to allow the illumination to spread out on the wall more.

A helpful compromise on room decor is to mix neutral gray on the wall behind the TV with highlights of the color on the other walls. In other words, start with a complimentary tone of gray or various grays as a base, then add some taupe texture or pattern with one of those texturing sponges or some other means. White is also neutral. The only wall that's critical is the one that is within your field of view while watching the TV. People who have tried the neutral background are amazed with how much more pleasing the color appears on the TV.

Best regards and beautiful pictures,
G. Alan Brown, President
CinemaQuest, Inc.

"Advancing the art and science of electronic imaging"
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post #310 of 1810 Old 01-24-2006, 12:16 PM
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http://www.bellacor.com/detail.cfm?C...Header&Track=0
this warm white ropelight sounds nice!
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post #311 of 1810 Old 01-24-2006, 01:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GeorgeAB View Post

With that small of a panel I would suggest starting with just the 2 fixtures that come in the Panelight model. If that doesn't give you enough coverage you can consider adding one or two more fixtures. Installing them closer to the mount, instead of toward the outer perimeter of the TV, tends to allow the illumination to spread out on the wall more.

A helpful compromise on room decor is to mix neutral gray on the wall behind the TV with highlights of the color on the other walls. In other words, start with a complimentary tone of gray or various grays as a base, then add some taupe texture or pattern with one of those texturing sponges or some other means. White is also neutral. The only wall that's critical is the one that is within your field of view while watching the TV. People who have tried the neutral background are amazed with how much more pleasing the color appears on the TV.

Best regards and beautiful pictures,
G. Alan Brown, President
CinemaQuest, Inc.

"Advancing the art and science of electronic imaging"

Thanks for the tips!
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post #312 of 1810 Old 01-24-2006, 04:25 PM
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DieselClown,

The "warm white" is stated as "approximately" 4000K. They offer a "cool white" version that claims to be "approximately" 6500K, which should offer better color rendition than the warm white. The 4000K will likely appear yellowish compared to video white. My experience with measuring LED products that claim to be 6500K has shown they are typically are significantly more blue than that. I have had a variety of LED sent to me by various diode manufacturers. The 'Illuminaire' brand of products measured at 8500K and they flatly state theirs to be 6500K.

Best regards and beautiful pictures,
G. Alan Brown, President
CinemaQuest, Inc.

"Advancing the art and science of electronic imaging"
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post #313 of 1810 Old 01-25-2006, 09:06 AM
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George,

I have been following your discussion of the color of the wall behind the plasma. I have a 42" plasma on a table about 8" from the wall. I live in a log home and the wall is natural roundish logs (light to medium in color). I cannot change the color or uneven texture of the wall. How will this affect the reflected light.

Thanks...
Steve
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post #314 of 1810 Old 01-25-2006, 10:37 AM
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Tuesday evening I received the Ideal-Lume panel light ordered on Friday. It was well packaged as has been previously stated. Instructions were minimal. Surprisingly there were no generic type diagrams of recommended installation methods.

My current setup: Panasonic th37px50u plasma mounted on supplied pedestal stand sitting on top of a 24 high wood cabinet. Back of panel is approx. 3 from wall. Existing room & back wall covering is a muted gold/tan pattern wallpaper. Viewing distance: 8'- 6.

I experimented & eventually settled on mounting the Ideal-Lume light centered on the back of the plasma cabinet. Supplied Velcro strips were used for attachment. Weight of lamp/base causes unit to tilt down slightly, but appears to hold fine.

A plastic tube/baffle is attached around the light, & can be rotated to achieve the amount of light preferred. If the baffle is not strategically placed, an annoying large strip of light will glare at the ceiling (as much as 12 dp). Conversely, to reduce light as much as possible on top & keep light from glaring on ceiling, the light glares at the bottom. This is the adjustment that worked best in my case. Downward projected light glowed prominently off the base of silver pedestal stand. I have a center channel in front of the base that helps minimize the glare somewhat, but painting the base black or covering w/ a dark surface would help. A clear plastic diffuser/cover goes over the light once baffle adjustments are made

Light coming from the sides of the plasma shown on nearby white door molding & was distracting as well. I found myself wanting to dial the light back further than was allowed by the baffle.

Effects to the screen were mostly positive. I can definitely see how this will help w/ eye strain vs. a totally dark room. My wife liked it immensely for this reason alone. I'm not sure yet about more detailed blacks, etc.. as more A-B comparisons are needed; but picture was pleasing. I'll definitely revisit a calibration disk to get best settings.

Biggest problem is the distractions of seeing things near the plasma cause of the light source coupled w/ my particular room walls & layout. I need to live w/ it some before drawing a final conclusion, but it's a keeper if only for the eyestrain relief.
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post #315 of 1810 Old 01-26-2006, 08:11 AM
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Quote:


I cannot change the color or uneven texture of the wall. How will this affect the reflected light.

sbeck37923,

Regarding the color:

Quote:


Once again, the color of the wall behind the TV should be neutral. Its coloration can alter the color of the light reflected by it. However, if there is some coloration in the wall, a 6500K illumination will still be better than any other color of light. The wrong color of light only adds more color to the reflected illumination.

Regarding the uneven nature of a log wall, you will get uneven reflections. The farther out from the wall the TV and backlight are, the more even the illumination will appear on the wall.

rhcorolla,

Quote:


Instructions were minimal. Surprisingly there were no generic type diagrams of recommended installation methods.

Unfortunately, it is impractical for us to attempt to provide detailed instructions for the myriad of TVs, wall mounts, and install variations in use today. This is not a complex technology or product. We rely on each customer's familiarity with their own particular equipment, room, tastes, installation peculiarities, common sense and a little experimentation.

We are a very small company. I'm not a graphic artist, nor can we yet afford to hire one to generate the kind of diagrams found in many products' informational documents. You may have noticed that we don't advertise anywhere. Our marketing budget is very small. All marketing expenses must be passed on to the consumer by folding it into the selling price of the product. We have chosen to pursue industry exposure that costs us very little. This has allowed us to keep our prices down. In fact, our two newest models' revisions included substantial price reductions.

We believe successful implementation of video backlighting depends most of all upon an understanding of the fundamental objectives. Those being:

#1. To provide supplemental illumination around but behind the screen when viewing in the dark.

#2. That illumination should be less than 10% of the brightest white on the screen.

#3. The color of white light used should be as close to CIE D65 (D6500K) as possible.

#4. The color of the wall should be as neutral as possible to preserve accurate color perception.

Once the fundamental principles are understood, the proper installation should be simple to accomplish for an individual system. We actually provide more of the really vital information required to get it right, than any competing product available.

Most of what Philips instructs their Ambilight users to do is actually destructive to image fidelity, viewing comfort and is contrary to proven principles of imaging science. The other competing products for backlighting televisions currently available just try to emulate Philips' approach.

Readers of this forum have achieved better results on their own, than Philips has with all their R&D resources and God only knows how many engineers. Our goal is not to provide something cool, new and interesting. Our primary objective is always to help people get the best image their TV can provide. If you have specific questions about your individual installation, we are eager to help. You may have noticed I have spent a lot of time contributing to this thread and forum. Most of my posts have been generic in nature, rather than focused on discussing my products. One exception has been when responding to specific questions about the use or nature of what my company builds.

I'm genuinely interested in educating the readers of this forum about imaging science, for their benefit. I know many readers have built their own backlighting with various measures of success. If I can help them along to build their own solution correctly to meet a limited budget, I don't mind. Good will has a way of benefiting everybody eventually.

Best regards and beautiful pictures,
G. Alan Brown, President
CinemaQuest, Inc.

"Advancing the art and science of electronic imaging"
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post #316 of 1810 Old 01-26-2006, 11:48 AM
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Hey y'all. I've been reading in this thread about the importance of neutral colored walls behind the plasma. My living room walls are sponged a shade of mustardy yellow - which like all sponging is in various amounts of intensity in different spots. I worked hard on the paint and am not interested in changing it. Does this mean I am a bad candidate for bias lighting. If I did use a light, would it be distracting? Thanks.
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post #317 of 1810 Old 01-26-2006, 12:15 PM
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Vashti,

GeorgeAB or others can maybe address your situation best, but as I recall you were talking about wall mounting a 50" plasma, so what is distance of plasma back to wall? In my case, the gold/tan pattern wallpaper is similar to your wall, but my plasma is sitting on a pedestal & is 3" away from the wall. The bias lighting definitely helps w/ eyestrain & appears to enhance colors/black details. Distractions I mentioned may lessen w/ time (I've only watched for 2 nights now, but I did not notice distractions nearly as much last night, so I'm getting used to it).

Good luck
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post #318 of 1810 Old 01-26-2006, 12:27 PM
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Vashti,

Quote:


I worked hard on the paint and am not interested in changing it. Does this mean I am a bad candidate for bias lighting. If I did use a light, would it be distracting?

Quote:


Once again, the color of the wall behind the TV should be neutral. Its coloration can alter the color of the light reflected by it. However, if there is some coloration in the wall, a 6500K illumination will still be better than any other color of light. The wrong color of light only adds more color to the reflected illumination.

There is no such thing as a bad candidate for bias lighting. The whole subject is based upon imaging science, display standards, the perceptual characteristics of the human visual system and decades of proven practice. Bias lighting is the opposite of distracting, when correctly implemented. The only down-side to your wall color is that it will skew your color perception of the TV's image.

Any light in the room will still contaminate the image on your TV, unless it originates from behind the screen and doesn't brightly illuminate the whole room. Viewing comfort is enhanced in a darkened viewing environment with the use of bias lighting.

You have a right to your own priorities. If image fidelity and achieving the best picture a TV can deliver is a lesser priority than interior design, most walls may likely not be neutral. White or some shade of gray are technically color-neutral. When dominant vivid colors surround an image, our brain interprets the image as containing less of that color. In other words, it works subtractively in 'color space.' This perceptual characteristic is unavoidable. In professional video post-productions facilities there are no dominant vivid colors. Neutrals prevail.

Best regards and beautiful pictures,
G. Alan Brown, President
CinemaQuest, Inc.

"Advancing the art and science of electronic imaging"
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post #319 of 1810 Old 01-26-2006, 12:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GeorgeAB View Post

If image fidelity and achieving the best picture a TV can deliver is a lesser priority than interior design, most walls may likely not be neutral. White or some shade of gray are technically color-neutral...In professional video post-productions facilities there are no dominant vivid colors. Neutrals prevail.

Ahhh, In the real world, I can see it playing out this way ...

Husband: Let's get this big plasma/lcd !

Wife: I don't know, it seems so big & costs so much money !

Husband: How 'bout if we paint the wall behind the plasma white or some shade of gray like a professional video post-production facility. Would you like it better then?

WAF: Wife Approval Factor becomes WDF: Wife Denial Factor
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post #320 of 1810 Old 01-26-2006, 01:54 PM
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The "real" world? The video consuming masses care little to nothing about "AV Science." They want an appliance that works "good enough," and that they can afford. Technical details only burden and bore them. Their priorities don't include even understanding how to use basic picture controls properly. Most TVs sold last year in the US were direct-view CRTs, and not the big ones.

Maybe I'm naive, but I assume anyone reading this forum has an exceptional interest in what it takes to get the best picture on their equipment. Most women know that their face looks less than its best if they wear a conflicting color garment, the wrong shade of makeup or choose the wrong hair color. They understand this principle when it applies to a subject they care about. No one has probably ever told them the same principle applies to TV viewing environments.

Best regards and beautiful pictures,
G. Alan Brown, President
CinemaQuest, Inc.

"Advancing the art and science of electronic imaging"
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post #321 of 1810 Old 01-26-2006, 02:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rhcorolla View Post

My current setup: Panasonic th37px50u plasma mounted on supplied pedestal stand sitting on top of a 24 high wood cabinet. Back of panel is approx. 3 from wall. Existing room & back wall covering is a muted gold/tan pattern wallpaper. Viewing distance: 8'- 6.

rhcorolla,

My Idle Lume, 37" Plasma experience is nearly identical. Right now, I'm wrapping a black shirt around my stand (I have an 8uk and with a silver stand I purchased on E-b*) to reduce the glare from the backlight. I'm going to paint the stand in the spring. When I find the time, I'm going to fine tune the amount and dispersion of the back light with black electrical tape on the baffle.

Not only is eye-strain history, I'm able to perceive more details and depth in the picture.

AK
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post #322 of 1810 Old 01-26-2006, 04:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rhcorolla View Post

Vashti,

GeorgeAB or others can maybe address your situation best, but as I recall you were talking about wall mounting a 50" plasma, so what is distance of plasma back to wall? In my case, the gold/tan pattern wallpaper is similar to your wall, but my plasma is sitting on a pedestal & is 3" away from the wall. The bias lighting definitely helps w/ eyestrain & appears to enhance colors/black details. Distractions I mentioned may lessen w/ time (I've only watched for 2 nights now, but I did not notice distractions nearly as much last night, so I'm getting used to it).

Good luck

Good memory, rhcololla. Because I'm still doing research, I don't know exactly how far tv will be from wall. I'm hoping for an articulating mount, which would put panel about 3" from wall (but my old plaster studless wall may not be able to support it) Anyway, thanks for the feedback on yours. I think I'll wait to see what panel does without light first. I very well may add it later. You guys, especially you George AB, are all persuasive enough that I think I'll put in an extra outlet in case I want it. Thanks, all.
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post #323 of 1810 Old 01-26-2006, 04:53 PM
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I just got my panel light installed. WOW! It is awesome. I will do a full review when I have some more hours of usage under my belt.

Thanks!
John
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post #324 of 1810 Old 01-26-2006, 05:36 PM
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I put some green florescent lights on the back of my P50. Take a look here
And here's a picture of what it looks like on the back. In the other forum somebody said they'd get tired of the green real quick. But for movies I love it. I turn my lights on almost every time. Cost was something like 16 for the lights and 24 for a power plug. Cuz the lights go on a PC and normally connect to the harddrive connector.

TheDon T.H.G.
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post #325 of 1810 Old 01-26-2006, 05:47 PM
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I attached a picture of something I haven't seen before but it could be an idea for bias lighting. I just don't know if it would be bright enough. They sell it in different lengths and it can change to white, red, or green. Smallest I saw was 7 feet, but it's less than $20 and can use batteries or an AC adapter. Anyone try one of these behind their plasma? It is flexible and is illuminated the whole length, so no gaps between bulbs or anything. Looked interesting anyway.

Edit: It's called Litewire and I saw a picture of it used to create something that looked like a neon sign when lit up.
LL
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post #326 of 1810 Old 01-26-2006, 08:00 PM
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pj2004,

I got some of the stuff to experiment with. You're right in suspecting it won't be bright enough for backlighting. It's also very difficult to achieve 6500K. The lifespan of the stuff is very limited, especially if it's run at full brightness. There is a wide, flat form of the stuff avialable from another company as well. It also has serious application limitations for backlighting.

Best regards and beautiful pictures,
G. Alan Brown, President
CinemaQuest, Inc.

"Advancing the art and science of electronic imaging"
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post #327 of 1810 Old 01-26-2006, 08:23 PM
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thedonn,

Quote:


In the other forum somebody said they'd get tired of the green real quick. But for movies I love it. I turn my lights on almost every time.

The way human color perception works, surrounding your TV with vivid green light is subtracting green from the picture. Another way to accomplish this would be to wear magenta tinted glasses when you watch TV. Magenta is opposite green in "color space." The tinted glasses might even be cheaper than the green lighting.

You might prefer wearing the same glasses when you attend a movie theater. That way, when you watch the DVD on your TV with the green backlighting, you won't have to wear the magenta tinted glasses and still see the movie like it appeared in the theater.

If you want movies on your TV to look like the colorist intended when the film was converted to DVD, use 6500K backlighting instead of green. Image fidelity....what an unusual concept.

Best regards and beautiful pictures,
G. Alan Brown, President
CinemaQuest, Inc.

"Advancing the art and science of electronic imaging"
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post #328 of 1810 Old 01-27-2006, 04:41 AM
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Originally Posted by akpokey View Post

rhcorolla,

My Idle Lume, 37" Plasma experience is nearly identical. Right now, I'm wrapping a black shirt around my stand (I have an 8uk and with a silver stand I purchased on E-b*) to reduce the glare from the backlight. I'm going to paint the stand in the spring. When I find the time, I'm going to fine tune the amount and dispersion of the back light with black electrical tape on the baffle.

Not only is eye-strain history, I'm able to perceive more details and depth in the picture.

AK

akpokey, Thanks for the great ideas! The black shirt over the silver stand is an easy way to experiment w/ the glare before committing to paint. And the black electrical tape over the baffle is another good method to tweak the light dispersion. If you don't like it, you just pull it off & try again.

Excellent strategies. I will definitely try both of them out this weekend.
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post #329 of 1810 Old 01-27-2006, 05:30 AM
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Originally Posted by Vashti View Post

...I'm hoping for an articulating mount, which would put panel about 3" from wall (but my old plaster studless wall may not be able to support it).

Vashti,

Are you positive about your wall construction?. I've dealt w/ wood lath & plaster walls in a lot of houses. Typically the horizontal wood slats are attached to 2 x 4 (true size 2 x 4) studs on 16 in. centers before plaster is applied. Granted, the studs are much harder to find though because of the many horizontal wood slats, but they should be there (the horizontal wood strips have to attach to some vertical supports somehow).
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post #330 of 1810 Old 01-27-2006, 08:46 AM
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Currently I use a small clamp on desk lamp with a GE Reveal 60watt bulb on a remote controlled X10 dimmer module behind the top of my tv pointed toward the almond/white colored wall facing downward. It's not perfect but it works pretty good. Been using this method for about 4 years. Been considering a ideal-lume for awhile though.
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