Video Bias Lighting (SMPTE Recommended Practice- CIE D65/6500K White Light Only) - Page 40 - AVS Forum
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post #1171 of 1810 Old 06-14-2008, 03:05 PM
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Light travels in a straight line. It will work similarly to any other fluorescent light aimed at a corner. There is no reflector, the lamp is a tube lined with phosphor, so the illumination is very diffuse. It won't hot spot like a point source filament bulb, reflector spot, or flood.
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post #1172 of 1810 Old 06-14-2008, 03:33 PM
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So a bulb aimed at a corner will work just as good as a bulb aiming at a flat wall for improving perceived black levels when viewing at night.

TWW clan
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post #1173 of 1810 Old 06-14-2008, 05:38 PM
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You will realize much more viewing benefit than no bias lighting at all, but the overall aesthetic appearance won't be as smooth and even as a flat wall.
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post #1174 of 1810 Old 06-14-2008, 07:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GeorgeAB View Post

When you say it's pale yellow like a banana, what part of the banana, the peel (usually pretty vivid yellow) or the fruit inside (almost white)?

Benjamin Moore "Filtered Sunlight 2154-60". More like the peel than the fruit, but somewhere in between.

(Fortunately, I tend to watch movies only after my kids have gone to sleep.)

Any recommendations would be appreciated. Also, I may have missed it, but how much of a bulb should one put behind a 60" Kuro plasma display in terms of backlighting? I was thinking smallish, like 20W, but I cannot even guess. As noted, the lamp will be about 3' away from the wall behind it. Large room, though.

advice appreciated.

/iaw
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post #1175 of 1810 Old 06-14-2008, 09:33 PM
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Wattage only indicates how much power the lamp uses and has little consistent relation to lumen output. Our Ideal-Lume Standard model or equivalent would be suitable for your type of setup.
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post #1176 of 1810 Old 06-15-2008, 06:54 AM
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hi george---hmmm...I thought incandescent lightbulbs luman and wattage were reasonably closely related to one another that one could stand in for the other. so, Ideal-Lume will likely handle the kind of yellow that my Benjamin-Moore paint has better than the LED's that you tested (which had too high a temperature, around 8000K if I recall; can't find your post now)?

Suggestion---maybe you can post a range of colors where you would suggest going with Ideal-Lume, and beyond which one would want to go with something else. I presume a pure yellow wall or pure blue wall would be better served by other lighting.

regards,

/iaw
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post #1177 of 1810 Old 06-15-2008, 07:39 AM
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You said you read most of the posts in this thread. Incandescents are more red/yellow in spectrum, not blue. A 20 Watt fluorescent is far brighter than the same wattage lamp that is incandescent. Incandescents would make your wall look even more yellow. I have no idea how much blue you will need to correct for the yellow in your wall. Do you really expect me to know with any precision what color your wall is by quoting paint model numbers and talking about bananas?

I am not in the business of promoting compromised viewing environment conditions. My primary recommendations are to do it right. I know that following proper procedure will attain the correct results. What you are suggesting is ludicrous.

Use neutral wall colors and bias lighting that is as close to CIE D65 as possible. Then you will preserve optimum color accuracy in a video viewing environment. My products are verified to be D65, within SMPTE broadcast monitor tolerances. We achieve this level of precision through various means, including color correction via filtering. If you want me to measure other solutions, and your wall, for a custom application, you will have to pay me for my time. I suggested that you try filtering a fluorescent lamp. Various filters are easier to swap than light fixtures.

Your room is not designed for the best video imaging. Compromises have been made in the design, thus consequences to performance are inevitable. You can minimize the consequences by following my general instructions. The specific color of blue illumination you require is yours to identify and seek a solution for. Wouldn't it be so much more simple for you to paint the wall white and use a proven bias lighting solution?
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post #1178 of 1810 Old 06-15-2008, 01:59 PM
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I installed 2 "ideal lume panellight "( 1 on each side ) on my 60" Kuro w/ medium dark panelled wall behind it. It looks and functions great. Everyone who knows about biased lighting thinks my system works perfectly!
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post #1179 of 1810 Old 06-15-2008, 04:12 PM
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Ordered my standard Ideal Lume Friday.... should arrive Wednesday. Will go behind the 6010 (white wall so no potential issues as described above)....

Will report on the impact post installation....

Thanks, Alan; appreciate your info and direction on this option to achieve a better PQ and increase the investment we make in these large panel displays...
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post #1180 of 1810 Old 06-15-2008, 05:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GeorgeAB View Post

You said you read most of the posts in this thread. Incandescents are more red/yellow in spectrum, not blue. A 20 Watt fluorescent is far brighter than the same wattage lamp that is incandescent.

Of course. However, as far as I can tell, many manufacturers advertise their energy-saving bulbs (which have different temperatures) as "equivalent to a 60W incandescent." A 20W incandescent is often compared to a 6W fluorescent or a 3W LEDs (though the latter progresses so rapidly that this may be outdated by now). It is only in this sense that I was equating wattage roughly to lumens. I do understand that normal incandescents are very yellow, and that I do not want one. I really meant around 150 lumen. incidentally, when I looked at the cinemaquestinc.com site, I did not notice a lumen number on standard info sheet.

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I have no idea how much blue you will need to correct for the yellow in your wall. Do you really expect me to know with any precision what color your wall is by quoting paint model numbers and talking about bananas?

Sorry, I thought a quick google on the name would provide the color sample. If you have a monitor that is color calibrated---and I presumed you did---this is trivially easy and instant. My paint is, for example,
http://www.myperfectcolor.com/Benjam...mpc0005101.htm

Quote:
Wouldn't it be so much more simple for you to paint the wall white and use a proven bias lighting solution?

I want to stay married.

Because I did not expect individual advice, I had just hoped that there would be a temperature range on the Wall paint color for which you would recommend your product, and beyond which you would recommend one look for alternative solutions.


/iaw
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post #1181 of 1810 Old 06-15-2008, 07:59 PM
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Quote:


when I looked at the cinemaquestinc.com site, I did not notice a lumen number on standard info sheet

That's correct. I've never considered it necessary since there are likely so few consumers who could interpret lumen figures effectively in a bias lighting application.
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I thought a quick google on the name would provide the color sample. If you have a monitor that is color calibrated---and I presumed you did---this is trivially easy and instant.

Frankly, I've never even thought of Googling a paint reference. Thanks for the tip. My laptop screen has limited calibration facilities but the image would be close enough for this purpose. If this was so "trivially easy" it would have been appropriate and duly considerate for you to have supplied the link from the start, don't you agree? The sample on my screen appears to have some red in it, as well as yellow, therefore, a simple blue filter wouldn't offer adequate color correction. There would also have to be a cyan component to counter the red.
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Because I did not expect individual advice, I had just hoped that there would be a temperature range on the Wall paint color for which you would recommend your product, and beyond which you would recommend one look for alternative solutions.

What you had hoped for is not really practical. That which I recommended is still my best advice. I don't catalog other lighting supplier's solutions. The encounters I've commented on in this thread are only a few of those products that claimed to offer the right color but thus far have proven to be substantially in error. It's a chore for me to maintain products that do it correctly. If forum members want to locate alternate solutions, at least they can follow my explanations of the principles involved to achieve correct results.

Best regards and beautiful pictures,
G. Alan Brown, President
CinemaQuest, Inc.

"Advancing the art and science of electronic imaging"
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post #1182 of 1810 Old 06-16-2008, 10:18 AM
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ok, I will buy an idealume. may I make a suggestion? I think yellowish wall paint is pretty common these days. if you come across a bulb that helps correct it "a little," please offer it, too. of course it will be compromised in such environments, but so is the standard daylight lamp. for some of us, it is preferable.

are there a few mounting velcro pastics with it? I want to try it out on 3 different TVs to see how much I like it.

/iaw
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post #1183 of 1810 Old 06-16-2008, 11:27 AM
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Quote:


I think yellowish wall paint is pretty common these days. if you come across a bulb that helps correct it "a little," please offer it, too.

I'll leave such solutions to someone else. A 6500K bias light will already "correct it a little."

My company specializes in promoting correct imaging solutions for the segment of video consumers and professionals who value image fidelity and artistic integrity. Understanding imaging science principles, along with display industry standards and practices, enables me to offer suggestions to minimize the consequences resulting from compromised viewing environment conditions. As I said, filtering a correctly colored lamp is probably the most realistic, and cost effective, method for individual users to compensate for whatever individual paint choice they select in their individual display system and environment.

Quote:


are there a few mounting velcro pastics with it? I want to try it out on 3 different TVs to see how much I like it.

We include enough Velcro to mount the product once. If you want to experiment before permanently mounting it, I suggest using duct tape or Gorilla Tape.
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post #1184 of 1810 Old 06-17-2008, 04:19 PM
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George...I own one of your backlights. Ireally do think it makes the viewing experience better, but I want o make sure that Ihave it positioned right. I have a 40 inch lcd on a pedestal. it is about 18 inches in front of a white wall. I velcroed the light to the top back of my tv so the light is facing the white wall horizontally. Is this the proper location for it. I also don't know at times how bright the backlight should be. Any advice? thanks in advance
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post #1185 of 1810 Old 06-17-2008, 06:59 PM
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HEELSFINL4 and pbmpharmacist

This is not really the proper venue for solving specific problems with my products. We support what we sell. Please correspond directly with us via our company e-mail or phone and we will take care of your concerns in an expeditious manner.

Best regards and beautiful pictures,
G. Alan Brown, President
CinemaQuest, Inc.

"Advancing the art and science of electronic imaging"
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post #1186 of 1810 Old 06-17-2008, 07:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GeorgeAB View Post

HEELSFINL4 and pbmpharmacist

This is not really the proper venue for solving specific problems with my products. We support what we sell. Please correspond directly with us via our company e-mail or phone and we will take care of your concerns in an expeditious manner.

Best regards and beautiful pictures,
G. Alan Brown, President
CinemaQuest, Inc.

"Advancing the art and science of electronic imaging"

Fair enough. I emailed the info@cinemaquestinc.com address and I deleted my post as it isn't really relevant to the thread. Thanks.
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post #1187 of 1810 Old 06-18-2008, 04:05 PM
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Just a quick note:

For anyone considering Bias (back) lighting, I strongly consider that you buy from George and CinemaQuest, Inc. I have always enjoyed my Ideal Lume Standard and the support I am getting from them regarding an issue is highly impressive! Please support this company, you won't regret it!
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post #1188 of 1810 Old 06-22-2008, 08:29 PM
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Mounted the standard Ideal Lume behind the Pioneer PDP-6010.

Ended up rigging some hooks instead of the velcro which, so far, is working fine.

The adjustable filter around the bulb is a good feature allowing you to vary the amount of light shining onto the wall. Decided not to use the snap on plastic cover since I was adjusting the filter and found it convenient to leave it off.

Too early to assess the total impact but with regular TV (not HD) so far the colors do seem to pop off the screen then previous. Will continue to assess with HD cable and SD DVD (no BD player yet...).
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post #1189 of 1810 Old 06-26-2008, 03:42 PM
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Well I was going to order the ideal-lume standard yesterday but ran out of time. I could have sworn the price was $49.95 yesterday, but it's $59.95 today. Am I wrong?

I'm thinking I may just have to throw something together myself.
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post #1190 of 1810 Old 06-26-2008, 04:01 PM
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Prices have increased due to an accumulation of 2 1/2 years of incremental increases in our cost of materials. We held off as long as we could.

Best regards and beautiful pictures,
G. Alan Brown, President
CinemaQuest, Inc.

"Advancing the art and science of electronic imaging"
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post #1191 of 1810 Old 06-26-2008, 04:28 PM
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....
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post #1192 of 1810 Old 06-28-2008, 02:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GeorgeAB View Post

Prices have increased due to an accumulation of 2 1/2 years of incremental increases in our cost of materials. We held off as long as we could.

Best regards and beautiful pictures,
G. Alan Brown, President
CinemaQuest, Inc.

"Advancing the art and science of electronic imaging"

Lol, just my luck. Got my TV on the 27th, a day too late and found this thread just in time for the price increase

My question about Ideal-Lume: I have a 52" Samsung LCD not wall mounted. From reading the posts it seems the Ideal-Lume Standard is enough. I'm wondering if the light produces a significant amount of heat? I'm a bit hesitant about sticking a potential mini-heater on the back of the tv. I know I'm probably being paranoid since so many people have reported great results with the lights...but having just spent about $2500 on the tv I'm a bit protective of it
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post #1193 of 1810 Old 06-28-2008, 07:00 AM
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Even the info sheet pdf still has the old pricing.
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post #1194 of 1810 Old 06-28-2008, 07:19 AM
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clue11,

Heat's not a problem. You are welcome to correspond with the company directly. We know a lot about the products we manufacture and enjoy helping our customers. This forum and thread are really not intended to serve as our customer help line.

tsanga,

Thanks for the reminder.
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post #1195 of 1810 Old 07-01-2008, 10:50 AM
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Hey, not sure if anyone cares, but I thought I might add my ghetto Bias Lighting setup with others in this thread...

I just built this cabinet for my TV so that it can store media, have a bit of space for running cables behind it, and room for the Bias Lighting setup.

It uses a couple of 100 watt equivalent CFLs connected to some ceramic fixtures mounted with l-brackets:





As you can probably tell from the images, they're not 6500K - they're warm to match the rest of the lighting in our unit. Easy enough to swap out later if I want:






The nice thing is that the bias lighting is connected to a wall switch - so no fumbling behind the TV to shut it off!
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post #1196 of 1810 Old 07-01-2008, 11:36 AM
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Hopefully you didn't block any ventilation holes on the back of the TV with the aluminum foil reflectors.
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post #1197 of 1810 Old 07-01-2008, 12:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GeorgeAB View Post

Hopefully you didn't block any ventilation holes on the back of the TV with the aluminum foil reflectors.

Of course not! Luckily the 4081 has plenty of wide-open space to reflect off. The TV doesn't even get warm to the touch with this setup.
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post #1198 of 1810 Old 07-01-2008, 05:48 PM
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I've got a quick question.

If the wall color was off white (ie, light beige) would a 6500K Bias lighthing be okay?

Thank you for your reply.
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post #1199 of 1810 Old 07-01-2008, 07:04 PM
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Your question has been handled multiple times, and in substantial detail, previously in the thread. The short answer is- it would be better than any other color of lamp commonly available.
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post #1200 of 1810 Old 07-02-2008, 06:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GeorgeAB View Post

Your question has been handled multiple times, and in substantial detail, previously in the thread. The short answer is- it would be better than any other color of lamp commonly available.

Just learned that you can actually search this thread for wall color and this question would have been unnecessary. Apologize for the dumbness. Thanks for the answer.
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