Video Bias Lighting (SMPTE Recommended Practice- CIE D65/6500K White Light Only) - Page 59 - AVS Forum
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post #1741 of 1810 Old 02-17-2009, 05:58 AM
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Quote:


if its completely false then tell whats true

Descriptive specifications are listed in the individual product descriptions in our online store for both the T8 and T12 filter sets.
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post #1742 of 1810 Old 02-17-2009, 07:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by amp pop View Post

Do i need to filter the lamp to get it down to 10% of the whitest white point of my lcd?
What would it change if i left it this way?

Assuming that you have a 6500K lamp and fixture you need to mount it and dim it. In most cases the fixture is not visible so how neat it looks is not important. You have seen suggestions regarding opaque material for dimming. That's what you should be doing. You can use cardboard, foil, mesh or duct tape. Or anything else that's opaque. Cover enough of the bulb to get the amount of light you need while getting reasonably uniform illumination around the TV as shown in the photographs posted in this thread. It's not that hard. It's time consuming and annoying but not that difficult.

As an alternative. If you buy an I-L standard and have it shipped to me I'll forward it to you. For free. Since I work across the river from Fort Erie this is no great hardship.
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post #1743 of 1810 Old 02-17-2009, 02:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GeorgeAB View Post

Descriptive specifications are listed in the individual product descriptions in our online store for both the T8 and T12 filter sets.

yes u are right that T8 and T12 are explained but i was specifically referring to the T5 filter witch i didnt see in the u re store with the exception of the one that come s with the complete idealume set. I need a filter to use on my setup witch happens to be a T5 bias light assembly.
If cinemaquest does sell this filter let me know.
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post #1744 of 1810 Old 02-17-2009, 02:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bodosom View Post

Assuming that you have a 6500K lamp and fixture you need to mount it and dim it. In most cases the fixture is not visible so how neat it looks is not important. You have seen suggestions regarding opaque material for dimming. That's what you should be doing. You can use cardboard, foil, mesh or duct tape. Or anything else that's opaque. Cover enough of the bulb to get the amount of light you need while getting reasonably uniform illumination around the TV as shown in the photographs posted in this thread. It's not that hard. It's time consuming and annoying but not that difficult.

As an alternative. If you buy an I-L standard and have it shipped to me I'll forward it to you. For free. Since I work across the river from Fort Erie this is no great hardship.

Yesterday i tried aluminum foil. i rapped it all around and no light was able to go through. Its was like watching tv in the dark, again. I get it that the mesh and duct tape, there both opaque, but cardboard or foil are not. Would nt any other color other than opaque get in the way of the goal were trying to achieve with the bias light, that is to render colors fuller and get deeper blacks without messing up the accuracy. I will try duct tape tonight and see how that goes but i hope that the glue from the tape wont get stuck on the the protective plastic cover as i remove the tape.
If that doesnt get the job done right, then i will consider ordering the idealumestandard and have it shipped to u, really though thanks for the help.
I know its easy to do this bias light assembly but its like i m never sure if its the done the right way when its done. But i guess the idealume should make me feel more comfortable since its already assembled and it takes all of the guess work out of the way, plug and play baby. Btw i order the dve dvd so that should help me with light accuracy.
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post #1745 of 1810 Old 02-17-2009, 03:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by amp pop View Post

Yesterday i tried aluminum foil. i rapped it all around and no light was able to go through.

After you get the disc you can begin the time-consuming process of removing the right amount of foil/mesh/etc. to get to 10%.

Are you a Francophone?
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post #1746 of 1810 Old 02-17-2009, 04:24 PM
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Originally Posted by bodosom View Post

After you get the disc you can begin the time-consuming process of removing the right amount of foil/mesh/etc. to get to 10%.

Are you a Francophone?

Well i guess u can classify me as francophone because i do speak french fluently but English is my preferable language. Yeah born and raised and Montreal Quebec. I called up the store where i bought the light from and they told me that i can return it for a full refund. So should keep trying with the DIY
light or should i get the idealume standard? Now as it is, can i still achieve any good results without the dve dvd? What do u think i should do?
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post #1747 of 1810 Old 02-17-2009, 04:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by amp pop View Post

What do u think i should do?

I'll send you a PM
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post #1748 of 1810 Old 02-20-2009, 03:11 PM
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I have the ideal lume standard behind my pz800. But, I cannot seem to get the bias lighting dim enough to suit me. I have not tested the 10% of the whitest white, but I do have my light at its lowest output. Unfortunately, because the ISF calibrated THX setting on the pz800 is pretty dark, the bias light seems to decrease my enjoyment of watching the television. Is this normal? Is my tv too dark? Am I doing something wrong? Maybe my eyes need adjusting to the light? Does anyone have experience with bias lighting behind the pz800?
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post #1749 of 1810 Old 02-20-2009, 03:31 PM
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You can rotate the fixture as well as the baffle tube to reduce even more the illumination reaching the wall. It's also available to request an additional light block film to increase the width of the one that is in the tube. That produces a narrower aperture. Smaller TVs in front of a bright white wall may require this.

Proper implementation of bias lighting enhances image quality and viewing comfort. It's required that the illumination on the wall be 10% or less of peak white. That's what is "normal." The technique is applicable to all TVs, not just yours.

What color is your wall? When are you planning to verify whether or not you have it adjusted to the recommended level? How big is your TV?
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post #1750 of 1810 Old 02-22-2009, 07:55 PM
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is it possible to calibrate my tv with the dve dvd without the bias light mounted on the back of the tv( i havent received the light yet). Is the calibration gonna be different ones i get the light? Can i go ahead and start calibrating my set now or is it better to wait to include the bias light in the calibration?
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post #1751 of 1810 Old 02-22-2009, 10:14 PM
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Check this previous post in the thread: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...8#post15713188 .
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post #1752 of 1810 Old 02-23-2009, 07:46 AM
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Is it worth adjusting 2:35 letterbox bars to the 10% level?
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post #1753 of 1810 Old 02-23-2009, 08:40 AM
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If they can't be masked, I would want them to match the TV's screen frame.
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post #1754 of 1810 Old 02-23-2009, 09:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GeorgeAB View Post

Check this previous post in the thread: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...8#post15713188 .

im not very technical with this stuff and i dont really get what ure saying in that post. I just want to know since i just received the hd basics dvd and i still dont have my idealume yet, can i still start to calibrate my tv in total darkness. When i do receive my IL will the recalibrating process be completly different from the one i did without the light the first time.
Cause calibration is a time consuming process and i dont want to have to redo it when i receive the bias light, so my question in all this is the following:
do u think I should just wait to receive the light first and then start calibrating or go ahead and start now without the light?
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post #1755 of 1810 Old 02-23-2009, 10:34 AM
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My pz800 is the 58 inch model, and the wall behind the television is green. With the bias lighting I do notice less eye fatigue, but it seems to make me notice the deficiency of my black levels more than if I had no bias lighting. This may be more of the limitations of my set than the bias lighting, but the not-so perfect black levels bother me with the bias lighting on. I admit that I might have to let my eyes adjust to the bias lighting because I had to do the same thing with my calibration.
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post #1756 of 1810 Old 02-23-2009, 11:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by amp pop View Post

go ahead and start now without the light?

The referenced post says
1) Calibrate (or adjust) with the bias light off.
2) Adjust bias level.
3) Re-check black level (because the ambient illumination has changed).

So you need a bias light before you can do two and three. I'd wait and do everything at the same time but it's up to you since the bias isn't going to change the appropriate white level, grayscale, gamma or color adjustments.
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post #1757 of 1810 Old 02-23-2009, 11:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by amp pop View Post

im not very technical with this stuff and i dont really get what ure saying in that post. I just want to know since i just received the hd basics dvd and i still dont have my idealume yet, can i still start to calibrate my tv in total darkness. When i do receive my IL will the recalibrating process be completly different from the one i did without the light the first time.
Cause calibration is a time consuming process and i dont want to have to redo it when i receive the bias light, so my question in all this is the following:
do u think I should just wait to receive the light first and then start calibrating or go ahead and start now without the light?

Perhaps you failed to understand the post I linked to because you didn't read the question it was responding to. The question was posed in the post directly above. Here's the question:
Quote:


Hi, just for clarification, do I need to calibrate my HDTV with the Bias Lighting on or off? I'm thinking on because that is how I am going to view the HDTV.

For review and clarity, here's my answer:
Quote:


Calibrate without the light in a dark room. Then adjust the light to 10% of peak white on the screen using a bias light level test pattern. Very slight adjustment of black level might be needed after the bias light is adjusted.

Perhaps I need to be less "technical."
"Calibrate without the light...." means: use your new 'HD Basics' Blu-ray Disc to adjust your TV without the Ideal-Lume on.
"....in a dark room." means: turn all lights off in the room and have no daylight or adjacent room light illuminating the area either.
"Then adjust the light....." means: after the TV is adjusted for viewing in the dark, the Ideal-Lume itself can be adjusted for the correct level of illumination it shines on the wall behind the TV.
"....to 10% of peak white on the screen...." means: the amount of illumination on the wall should be only 1/10th as bright as the brightest white the TV has been adjusted to (by using your new calibration disc to adjust the TV's contrast control).
"...using a bias light level test pattern." means: your new calibration disc includes a test pattern for adjusting bias lights. Select that test pattern, display it on the TV screen, turn on the Ideal-Lume, then adjust the light until the amount of light on the wall looks similar to the amount of light depicted in the pattern on the TV screen.
"Very slight adjustment of black level might be needed after the bias light is adjusted." means: you might need to adjust the 'brightness' control (more correctly known as the black level control) on the TV after you finish installing and adjusting the Ideal-Lume. Remember, this is still in the context of viewing in a darkened room.
Quote:


....my question in all this is the following:
do u think I should just wait to receive the light first and then start calibrating or go ahead and start now without the light?

Start without the light.

Best regards and beautiful pictures,
G. Alan Brown, President
CinemaQuest, Inc.
A Lion AV Consultants Affiliate

"Advancing the art and science of electronic imaging"
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post #1758 of 1810 Old 02-23-2009, 11:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dabear35 View Post

My pz800 is the 58 inch model, and the wall behind the television is green. With the bias lighting I do notice less eye fatigue, but it seems to make me notice the deficiency of my black levels more than if I had no bias lighting. This may be more of the limitations of my set than the bias lighting, but the not-so perfect black levels bother me with the bias lighting on. I admit that I might have to let my eyes adjust to the bias lighting because I had to do the same thing with my calibration.

Double check that you have actually implemented the product correctly. I can't tell from your post if you have followed all the instructions completely.
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post #1759 of 1810 Old 02-23-2009, 01:42 PM
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I ordered an Ideal Lume Standard for my Samsung 61 LED DLP. I also just removed my old wallpaper from behind the TV as we are painting the walls. My wife isn't thrilled about the idea of a neutral gray color on the wall so its looking like some type of white or cream is the color desired. To get the best use of the backllighting, would anyone recomend a white/cream or lighter color to use, in other words, besides gray what would work best for the backlighting? much thanks
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post #1760 of 1810 Old 02-23-2009, 01:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eddysnake View Post

in other words, besides gray what would work best for the backlighting? much thanks

Shades of gray range from black to white.

Go here and search for Munsell.
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post #1761 of 1810 Old 02-24-2009, 08:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eddysnake View Post

I ordered an Ideal Lume Standard for my Samsung 61 LED DLP. I also just removed my old wallpaper from behind the TV as we are painting the walls. My wife isn't thrilled about the idea of a neutral gray color on the wall so its looking like some type of white or cream is the color desired. To get the best use of the backllighting, would anyone recomend a white/cream or lighter color to use, in other words, besides gray what would work best for the backlighting? much thanks

Stick as close to neutral as possible. As you move farther away from neutral, color perception is affected more. Just remember, neutral goes with every color scheme. There can be no color conflict with neutral. Patterns and textures composed of neutrals can look much more interesting than what many people picture in their minds when considering a gray wall (battleship, prison cell, concrete wall, etc.).
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post #1762 of 1810 Old 02-24-2009, 04:27 PM
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I have been evaluating a DIY setup with a gooseneck lamp and a proper 6500k daylight bulb. Because my TV is in a corner, the light seems to envelop the room. The color seems OK by the DVE standard. The walls are off white. I still get a bit of eye strain as I did with no bias lighting.

If anyone has a similar setup and have tried the same DIY arrangement and did the subsequently went with the Ideal Lume, what was your experience? I am inclined to go for what is best, and Ideal Lume seems to be the way to go.

I just don't want to make a change and end up with the same result. Comments?
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post #1763 of 1810 Old 02-26-2009, 10:28 AM
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I'm having a bit of a challenge adjusting my ideal lume standard. I'm trying to match it with the DVE test pattern for maximum ambient light. It seems like the reference point on the screen for 10 percent of maximum output, is pretty bright. I would think it should look more like a 10 ire pattern, but it's brighter than that.

I also think I have two challenges, one is my tv is about 3-4 feet off the back wall so the light really spreads evenly across the whole back wall, rather than just haloing the tv. Secondly, the walls are unfortunately not a neutral color, kind of a paprika. It's just hard to visually match it to the screen, and it really does light up the whole back wall. Any tips or ideas?
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post #1764 of 1810 Old 02-26-2009, 10:48 AM
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The 'DVE' test pattern is correct. 10 IRE is not 10% of visible light. Illuminating the whole wall is fine.
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post #1765 of 1810 Old 03-01-2009, 07:58 PM
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Got the Ideal-Lume standard setup today for my Sammy 61A 750 LED DLP, because the tv sits about a foot+ away from the wall on a stand, when I turn the light on it's lighting up the entire back wall rather than the "halo" effect I see on some of the pics from the thread. I have a flat cream color wall and I've tried different positions with the light, but because the TV isn't up against the wall the light projects more.

Is this OK to receive the best use of the light? I thought about mounting the light onto a wide piece of cardboard and mounting that against the wall to create the "halo" effect and lessen the projected light against the entire wall?
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post #1766 of 1810 Old 03-01-2009, 08:19 PM
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There's nothing wrong with having the whole wall illuminated.
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post #1767 of 1810 Old 03-03-2009, 02:36 PM
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any a suggestions. my tv is set in front a window in my apart. ( that the best spot for my surround sound setup). but i have a black curtain behind it to keep out most of the light during the day( working well). what kind or how would i set up any light behind my tv. my tv is a 52in and the window is not as wide my tv. the tv has about 5-6 of wall and either side behind it. im wondering by placing lighting behind i dont think it would spread evenly with the curtain not being flat. HELP!!!!
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post #1768 of 1810 Old 03-03-2009, 02:58 PM
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If I'm understanding what you have attempted to say, you will still get plenty of benefit from a single bias light. It may help to move your TV a little bit farther out from the curtain.
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post #1769 of 1810 Old 03-17-2009, 02:26 AM
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Hello, everyone!

Here's a bias lighting dilemma that I haven't seen yet in all these postings (...and there are MANY!). Given a wall cabinet installation that limits how wide a new TV can be, is it better to go with the largest possible screen or to go smaller in order to allow for bias lighting on the sides? A related issue is whether or not the TV should be elevated within the cabinet to allow for bias lighting along the bottom edge. For the benefit of others who may have a similar situation, please respond with some general suggestions; but I'll also give you my specific concerns, as follows (just in case you would like to help me out even more!). Thanks in advance.

Lynn
My details:
I am planning on replacing my Sony 37" XBR tube (CRT) TV with a new LCD HDTV, and I need to decide how large I can go. Unfortunately, the only place the TV can go is back into the existing built-in cabinets, which allow only a maximum width of 49" (42.5" as-is, but I can remove the slide-in doors to get some extra width). I haven't decided for sure on the TV, but I'm looking closely at the 46" Samsung. This set is 44.5" wide, allowing only about 2.25" on each side for bias lighting. The 40" Samsung is 39.2" wide, allowing for more lighting, but much less viewing "real estate." What would you do?

A second issue is the cabinet color...they're DARK (cherry wood). It may be a losing battle to try and convince anyone around here that the insides need to be painted a nice, neutral gray! Will I gain a whole lot by trying to change the color,or should I save that fight for another day? Thanks again for listening to my problems. I feel better already, just getting them off my chest.

BTW, if you've read this far, I forgot to mention that I'm also going to need your help with moving the old Sony out of here, because that sucker must weigh over a hundred pounds!
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post #1770 of 1810 Old 03-17-2009, 07:00 AM
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Get the larger TV then just do the best you can with ambient lighting. Perhaps there is space between the top of the cabinet and the ceiling. Just providing SOME supplemental illumination within your field of view when watching the TV at night will help. Using the right color of light and keeping it behind the frontal plane of the screen are beneficial as well.

Photos of the cabinet in the room would help. What would look great is centering the new TV in the cavity so that space above and below are equal and equal space on the left and right sides. That might require installing a false back (closer to the front of the cabinet face) with a wall mount bracket instead of using a pedestal base.

If you end up with minimal space around the TV, it's likely the color of the interior surfaces won't be visible much anyway without illumination. You can consider covering the interior surfaces behind the TV with a darker shade of gray, which should appear black during the day, when the bias lighting wouldn't necessarily be used. Bias light would still illuminate the darker gray, just as it would the dark cherry color, but now it would be neutral instead of having an orange character.

That Sony is probably closer to 200 pounds. Have fun.

Best regards and beautiful pictures,
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