Video Bias Lighting (SMPTE Recommended Practice- CIE D65/6500K White Light Only) - Page 7 - AVS Forum
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post #181 of 1810 Old 01-03-2005, 02:52 AM
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Anyone try electroluminescent lighting? The lighting is continuous and can be dimmed.

http://www.luminousfilm.com/
http://store.yahoo.com/xenoline/repxen7.html
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post #182 of 1810 Old 01-03-2005, 05:01 AM
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Looks cool... but maybe too dim?
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post #183 of 1810 Old 01-21-2005, 09:34 AM
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For the record, I finally got a second strip of LEDs and went about trying to get them on the back of the TV. Since the LED light is so focused, I had a hard time getting the lights on the back of the TV to provide a nice even glow, rather than a very hard blob of light. After a bunch of fiddling I wound up spreading the two strips out on a strip of cardboard, taping them down, and laying that behind the TV so that they shine upward and illuminate the wall. The effect works, but it's not ideal. I'll try to take some pictures and post 'em.
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post #184 of 1810 Old 01-21-2005, 11:09 AM
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Ron,

We have experimented with electro-luminescent wire. In our opinion, the current state of the technology does not provide precise enough color rendering and color temperature, or a long enough life span to be suitable for video backlighting applications. It was fun trying the stuff out but it was not any where near compatible with the demands of home theater use.

We are currently experimenting with 6500K compact fluorescents that screw into a standard light bulb socket and dim with a standard incandescent style dimmer. This could meet a wide variety of needs, including ceiling cans and track lighting.

Best regards and beautiful pictures,
G. Alan Brown, President
CinemaQuest, Inc.

"Advancing the art and science of electronic imaging"
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post #185 of 1810 Old 01-21-2005, 07:00 PM
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A search for "Ambilight" brought me to this thread. Seems like a gimmick.

While I'm sure that GeorgeAB has NOT been amused, I can't help but laugh at all you guys that bought $5,000 TVs, and now are looking for the cheapest, cheesiest, ugliest "solutions" you can find for backlighting!

Well, now I have to edit my post cuz I sounded a little nasty. In fact I was dead tired when I was reading this thread, and today I realize more clearly that the topic is in "Flat Panel Displays"! Duh! I can see how/why y'all have a problem getting light behind your TVs, and in particular why a "rope light" might be appropriate.

I have an issue with my background, but once I get a handle on that, I will probably test with a Reveal (daylight) incandescent before sending-off to George for the real deal. My TV is an LCD RPTV; not exactly flat...
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post #186 of 1810 Old 01-22-2005, 04:51 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:


Originally posted by Laserfan
I can't help but laugh at all you guys that bought $5,000 TVs, and now are looking for the cheapest, cheesiest, ugliest "solutions" you can find for backlighting! Amazing!

I'll agree with the cheapest part. Cheesy?? Maybe. Ugly?? Is in the eye of the beholder.

Rich McGirr

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post #187 of 1810 Old 01-22-2005, 07:57 AM
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Cheapest and cheesiest? If we wanted that we'd all have strings of christmas lights duct taped to the back of our TVs
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post #188 of 1810 Old 01-22-2005, 08:59 AM
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Christmas lights are big business in Canada...

White LED outdoor Chirstmas lights recently hit the market, and when a neighbour of mine threw up a string, I was amazed by how bright (and cool colour-temperature wise) they were. I immediately thought of a bias lighting application.

Of course I wasn't thinking about stringin' up outdoor Christmas lights behind my PDP, but perhaps white LED's are the way to go.

A quick bit of research on white LED colour temps (I have to remember to spell colour "color" when Googling) reveals they are availabile in a variety of temperatures (e.g., warm (6500K) and cool (4500K) -- perhaps others).

http://www.korry.com/products/nightshield/led_light.stm

Unlike flourescent, LED's can be easily configured for variable brightness. They also consume very little energy. And those white LED's are wickedly white.

Ironically, while researching "LED bias lighting" I found out (well, I leared back in University but forgot) that LED's use a "bias" voltage which is unrelated to "bias lighting"...

As for a "cheap" solution... after spending nearly $25k on my home theatre, I am now only able to get funding for cheap projects from the Board of Director (i.e., my wife).

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post #189 of 1810 Old 01-22-2005, 09:01 AM
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Well, i'll post pictures of my ghetto LED solution when I get a chance, and since you're in Canada, you can make a trip to Walmart and buy the lights in question.
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post #190 of 1810 Old 01-22-2005, 09:07 AM
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I have an extra fiber optic light system that was originally intended for landscape lighting laying around... After reading this thread I am going to pick up a bulb for it that is as close to 6500k as I can get and run some fiber behind my display. Should be a perfect alternative if I can make it work - no heat from the light source at all.
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post #191 of 1810 Old 01-22-2005, 09:22 AM
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Quote:


Originally posted by BobDobalina
Well, i'll post pictures of my ghetto LED solution when I get a chance, and since you're in Canada, you can make a trip to Walmart and buy the lights in question.

...or Canadian Tire...

My CIOTD (crazy idea of the day -- as an engineer I have these every day) is to buy a string of white LED christmas lights at Wal*Mart, Canadian Tire or Home Depot as well as a long length of white opaque plastic tubing (say half or three-quarter inch in diameter) and pull the lights through the tube. (i.e., a home-made rope light using white LED's).

This would diffuse the light from the lights to make a more even "glow", and would also hide the fact that I've strung Christmas lights behind my PDP.

One problem is the spacing between the LED's on a Christmas string is probably a more than what you would want for a bias lighting application.

Ross
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post #192 of 1810 Old 05-19-2005, 10:05 PM
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WARINING CCF inverters contain extremely high voltages! Take precautions when operating them. Be sure to Insulate inverter.


Well, Nobody has probably thought of this yet but, flatbed scanners all have the perfect color temperature CCF tubes in them along with the perfect matching inverter. Just extract the tube and inverter, wire up a 12v DC adapter and voila the perfect bias light. Old scanners can be had at thrift/junk store for $2-$10. Buy as many as you want, extract the bulbs and inverters and your done for >$20.
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post #193 of 1810 Old 05-21-2005, 04:35 PM
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Quote:


Originally posted by mustyput
Well, Nobody has probably thought of this yet but, flatbed scanners all have the perfect color temperature CCF tubes in them along with the perfect matching inverter. Just extract the tube and inverter, wire up a 12v DC adapter and voila the perfect bias light. Old scanners can be had at thrift/junk store for $2-$10. Buy as many as you want, extract the bulbs and inverters and your done for >$20.

Interesting suggestion, however I suspect you can't adjust the brightness of these lamps (please correct me if I'm wrong...)

Ross
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post #194 of 1810 Old 05-25-2005, 12:52 PM
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bump...I was toying around with the idea of having a buddy of mine custom make a pure white rectangular neon-type lighting tube (think budweiser neon sign at your local pub) that would mount directly behind the plasma screen. Do you guys know if these types of lights produce a buzzing noise? I'll ask later this week since he's traveling but I was curious as to how to create the whitest light possible. 6500 kelvin is pretty damn white/blue. The HID's on my car are rated at 4300k and they're pure white. I think that would be a perfect temperature for a light source.

The LED strips look promising as well as by nature they consume much less energy and are more efficient than conventional candlescent bulbs.
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post #195 of 1810 Old 05-25-2005, 08:43 PM
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6500 kelvin is pretty damn white/blue. The HID's on my car are rated at 4300k and they're pure white. I think that would be a perfect temperature for a light source.

The color of white used for video is 6500K. The "perfect" temperature for video back lighting is also 6500K. The Society of Motion Picture and Television Engineers (SMPTE) recommends in their "Recommended Practices Document #166: Critical Viewing Conditions For The Evaluation Of Color Television Pictures" that ambient lighting used in video viewing environments be as close to CIE D65 as possible. D65 is loosely refered to as 6500K but is a more precise white point used for the standard of correctly calibrated video displays. SMPTE also recommends the wall behind the display be a neutral gray to white in color and the level of back light illumination to be less than 10% of the peak white output of the display.

Our video system is ruled by standards and practices set by SMPTE to insure consistent image quality all along the production chain. These standards and practices are not known or faithfully practiced by many consumers and even professionals in the home theater community. The ongoing mission of the Imaging Science Foundation has been to educate consumers and professionals alike in the importance of adhering to these display standards. If image fidelity is a priority, these rules must be understood and applied in any video system. Every video system design must take into account the viewer and the viewing environment, not just the equipment. Any departure from the rules will result in compromised image reproduction and perception.

Any personal preference, fad, fashion, whim or impulse which results in deviation from our video system rules will always cause some consequence to faithful imaging. SMPTE RP#166 was based upon human factors research and is intended to primarily promote correct image perception and secondarily viewing comfort. SMPTE found that D65 ambient lighting and a neutral colored surround within the field of view with the monitor screen promoted and preserved correct color perception in the viewer. This is what proper video back lighting is all about.

Best regards and beautiful pictures,
G. Alan Brown, President
CinemaQuest, Inc.

"Advancing the art and science of electronic imaging"
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post #196 of 1810 Old 05-25-2005, 11:12 PM
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I set mine up using one of those fluorescent mechanic's under-bonnet lamps. It's about 12" long, and the ballast is on the wall plug end so there's no weight on the tube.

The tube is enclosed in a clear, tough plastic, and part of the tube is masked out with white card so only half the lamp shows. I rotated the lit slit half up the wall where it shows a nice even glow all round the set. I have white walls.

The unit sits neatly and firmly under the s-video cord going up behind my AV cabinet to my 50" Panasonic, and I also have it connected so when the main switch with everything connected gets turned on with a remote, so does the backlight.

As far as I can tell, it is the correct illumination (I spit on my finger and held it up to the light), and the results are very wow. Blacks - which are eye-stopping with this Panny anyway - seem to have more life, and the colors are not brighter, but crisper in some way.

I experimented with a halogen desk lamp, and though the color temp was warmer, it didn't have the same effect on the picture as the whiter fluorescent. Or maybe it was my imagination... after a while of tweaking it gets hard to see a major difference.

The only part I can't get used to is the feeling I'm not sitting in the dark like a proper theater. It's like a cross between a theater screen and a backlit fish tank.

Yet when I turn the bias light off, the image loses that pop. I'm addicted!

Ken.
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post #197 of 1810 Old 05-26-2005, 07:40 AM
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I received my IdealLume plasma backlight a few days ago and am very pleased with both the product and the results. First, I've never received a product packaged so well via mail. The light was wrapped in bubble wrap and placed in a box that was also wrapped in bubble wrap. This box was inside another box full of styrofoam peanuts. Needless to say, it arrived safely.

I popped in DVE for a backlight reference and began experimenting with the included filters. I found the lightest gel to be the best match for my setup. I previously had an office lamp with a GE Reveal bulb behind the plasma. The improvement from stepping up to the IdealLume was striking. The light from the IdealLume feels like it compliments the picture on the screen, rather than distracting from it. It's a soothing white glow rather than the relatively yellow lighting I had previously. Colors seem richer and watching a full 2 hour movie produced no eye strain.

I tried various alternatives such as Home Depot rope lighting (very yellow) and various florescent options (either too large, wrong color, or too noisy) over the last 6 months thinking I could find something sufficient for similar money. I always found the color, intensity, or dispersion of the light distracting. The IdealLume is the first backlight I've found that doesn't distract and "take away" from the image. It actually compliments the image. I'm sold.

BTW - To control the backlight with my universal remote, I picked up a 2002SHL Appliance Module (for florescents) and an IR-543 that receives IR and converts the signal to X-10 to control the lamp module. Got both @ Smarthome. Now I have a macro setup in my MX-850 called "Watch DVD" that turns on my backlight along with my PDP, Receiver, DVD, and sets all inputs. It's a convenient setup for WAF. All that said, thanks for the excellent product and service George!

Cory
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post #198 of 1810 Old 05-26-2005, 05:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kensilver View Post

As far as I can tell, it is the correct illumination (I spit on my finger and held it up to the light), and the results are very wow.

I've used this technique to determine which way the wind is blowing, but never to test correct illumination. Could you elaborate on the spit-on-finger test...?

Ross
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post #199 of 1810 Old 05-26-2005, 07:32 PM
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It probably helps if you've been eating blueberries prior to the test. I hesitate to ask which finger was used.

Thanks for the kind words and all the detail, housecor. What you experienced trying to find the best backlight solution is very much what I went through as a hobbyist before entering the home theater business professionally. My objective has been to save fellow videophiles all the time and trouble by offering pre-assembled and accurate solutions to quality video backlighting. It didn't hurt to have Joe Kane and Joel Silver helping me develop our products along the way either. I fully realize our pricing is more than many DIY hobbyist types want to consider but our customers are paying for all of our operating costs and the pains we take to get a very delicate product to them in shipping. After all these years, it's still very difficult for most folks to find reference quality components locally over the counter.

We are continually searching to find better solutions at reasonable prices to enable fellow videophiles and professionals to get the most from their hardware and programming investments. I have been an aggressive associate of the Imaging Science Foundation since 1998 and believe our company is unique in the world for our dedication to providing ideal viewing environment education, products and solutions. My pashion for ultimate electronic display imaging fuels my enjoyment in contributing to this forum and promoting greater understanding of imaging science principles in the home theater community. I can't emphasize too much how important human visual perception characteristics and viewing environment conditions are in any imaging system. Joe Kane has been saying for over a decade that the viewing environment is the most frequently overlooked element in proper display setup.

Best regards and beautiful pictures,
G. Alan Brown, President
CinemaQuest, Inc.

"Advancing the art and science of electronic imaging"
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post #200 of 1810 Old 05-27-2005, 12:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ross in Toronto View Post

I've used this technique to determine which way the wind is blowing, but never to test correct illumination. Could you elaborate on the spit-on-finger test...?
Ross

It works the same way as wind Ross, but with light
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post #201 of 1810 Old 05-27-2005, 01:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GeorgeAB View Post

...I hesitate to ask which finger was used.

Never a rude one, George!

What I'm really trying to say is that I don't know what I'm doing, but like all ignorant people I have got some of it right through trial and error.

One day I'll get round to buying your product, but I'd like to check first that bias lighting is for me. For starters it is a peculiar way to see a screen backlit, and though it produces great results, I'm not sure about the experience.

Almost 5 decades of conditioned viewing have cemented this aged brain, and any different path takes a bit of mental adjustment!

Ken Silver
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post #202 of 1810 Old 05-28-2005, 11:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kensilver View Post

It works the same way as wind Ross, but with light

Ah, I understand now!

Ross
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post #203 of 1810 Old 07-28-2005, 08:51 AM
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I just purchased a 9' LED rope light that actually is rated for 6500K white light. Since it is LED, it gives off no heat and I feel that is definitely a benefit since it is so close to the plasma display. I am going to mount it tonight and see how well it works. I have a very low profile mount (less than 1" thick), so I can't use any florescent lighting such as ideallume.

For anyone who has used rope lighting, how far from the back edge of the display should I mount the light? For example, three inches in from the outside edges all around the display? The biggest negative, other than the gap between lights, is that it is not dimmable.

Thanks.

Matt
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post #204 of 1810 Old 07-28-2005, 01:28 PM
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MattNelson,

What is the make and model of your light rope?

-- Rich

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post #205 of 1810 Old 09-07-2005, 03:17 PM
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Does anyone here use the Ideal-Lume Plasma? Is more than one of these units required?

I'm pre-wiring for my plasma now and would like to add a switched outlet for one of these lights so that I can just turn it on like any other light.

Any insight would be appreciated. Thanks.

Tim Vickroy

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post #206 of 1810 Old 09-07-2005, 03:49 PM
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Yep, I've used the Ideal lume Plasma backlight for months now and love it. Just ordered another for my aunt's plasma. ONE WARNING THOUGH, when I bought it I had it plugged into the receiver outlet so when the receiver was turned on it turned on the backlight. Great idea right? Wrong it turns out. The bulb burned out in 3 months and was supposed to last for years.

So, I emailed cinemaquest and the president said they knew about this and hooking it up this way was what caused the bulb to fail so quickly. As for their great customer service? He replaced it for free even though bulbs aren't under the warranty so I am remaining their customer for life and recommending them to friends, etc.

So, unless something has changed just plug it into the wall and flip the switch on the light itself manually when you want to use it. If this has changed the cinemaquest president will probably post it here as he's already posted in this thread I believe.

As far as the difference it makes? Huge. Greatly reduced eye strain, better color, contrast, etc. It just makes watching the dvd much better although you'll need to give yourself a few weeks to get used to it if you're always watched in total darkness like I used to.
I liked it right away though and highly recommend this backlight.

Elite PRO-70X5FD!

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post #207 of 1810 Old 09-07-2005, 05:48 PM
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dvdguru,
I just ordered the Standard Ideal Lume for my Pio. I am currently looking for a IR controlled switch for it (not a wall mount switch, table lamp IR switch). Anyone have any ideas? I really want to control it from my ProntoPro NG.
-Evangelo2


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post #208 of 1810 Old 09-07-2005, 06:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dvdguru View Post


As far as the difference it makes? Huge. Greatly reduced eye strain, better color, contrast, etc. It just makes watching the dvd much better although you'll need to give yourself a few weeks to get used to it if you're always watched in total darkness like I used to.
I liked it right away though and highly recommend this backlight.

As I think I wrote somewhere else in this thread, I seem to be the one hold-out here with the backlighting thing. I've tried it again and again, with all types of lights and I just can't enjoy the image as much.

It does indeed improve the apparent contrast. But I have a Panasonic and find the blacks deep enough. It would certainly decrease eye-strain, if one experiences eye-strain due to a too-bright image. But I don't seem to get eye-strain.

But I just can't help but be distracted from the image by the backlight. (And I've tried various lights on dimmers too, as well as the correct color temp flourescent back lights). I find it detracts from the apparent depth of the image, because I'm aware of a light behind the image, and it also detracts from my perception of the all the color details. Watching with the lights turned out, with no backlight, I find the depth of the image and all the color details stand out more.

Am I the only one who feels this way?

Just curious.

Also, DVDguru, what plasma do you have?

Thanks,

Rich H


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post #209 of 1810 Old 09-07-2005, 06:23 PM
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I use a backlight and like it. I simply bought an 8" plug in flourescent fixture... kind of an under-cabinet kind of thing... and picked up a 6500K bulb at the local every-kind-of-bulb-imaginable store. Total cost...~ $14.

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. . . . . . . . . . . Peter

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post #210 of 1810 Old 09-07-2005, 06:26 PM
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Hey, the Panny TH50PHD7UY ISF calibrated by Gregg Lowen. The backlight also reduces glare on the screen which I like as well. If I could watch without eye strain I definitely wouldn't use a backlight but when I'm watching a pitch black scene and then it switches to a bright scene I can definitely feel my eyes adjust every time that happens. With the backlight they stay more "adjusted" to the screen and I don't have to squint, blink etc to get used to the new scene. I never thought I'd like a backlight either but with a plasma, lcd, etc it is important imho. With my older RPTV it wasn't an issue but an RPTV has much less light output...

Elite PRO-70X5FD!

dvdguru

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