Anyone using Milori Colorfacts Pro? - Page 4 - AVS Forum
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post #91 of 137 Old 01-21-2005, 08:49 PM
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guitarman

Go to Edit/Option/Exposure/: select the manual exposure time, 8000 miliseconds is the longest. Long exposure time can increase the stability of reading at 20-30IRE. Eyeone can give me consistent results of RGB levels.

It is not accurated to meansure contrast ratio because of the unstable lumen reading at 0IRE no matter the sensor is facing the screen or the projector. I use a light meter which can take 0.01 lux to measure the CR.
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post #92 of 137 Old 01-21-2005, 11:12 PM
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I hate to jump in late and I do not want to spoil the fun but is there a conclusion on aiming the sensor. Bear in mind, I am just renting Colorfacts with the standard sensor. I really want to get this right before I send it back. Thanks for the help.

Eric Awtry
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post #93 of 137 Old 01-22-2005, 02:42 AM
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With the sensor that I have, I found taking readings from the screen gave me a very red image that was easily noticable when viewing the greyscale. Taking readings direct from the pj and the greyscale looked grey. I would say to try both ways, and if one is giving you an obvious colour shift, don't use it.

Of course, taking the readings from the pj doesn't take into account any color shift the screen will have (if any), or any effects of colour from the room onto the screen. In my case, I have a white screen and a grey room, so the effects are minimal, and taking readings from the pj are more accurate than not in my case.

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post #94 of 137 Old 01-22-2005, 06:37 AM
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I forgot, I wanted to publically thank Cliff for chiming in about the progressive labs/Ovation OptinONE. After doing quite a lot of hunting, and getting input from some big dog calibrators, his is looking very attractive to me. Add to that a deal at onecall and AviaPro to boot and.... I was further swayed his direction by a informative personal explanation to some specific questions direct to me.

I've used the SmartIII system with a very sensitive light meter. I found the results of aiming and distance to be profound, *drastically* affected by the clightest change in either. Taking the readings off-screen would have been a drastic reduction in light to measure at low IRE's IMO. A few folks prefer the CF/EyeOne off-screen method, but more pro's who gave me input didn't, The 'ol choose by forum opinion thing again.

FWIW, Cliff told me (hope he dosent' mind the quote) they use the very high $ sensors to do their meter and offset calibrations (as I'm sure all of them do) but he said: "No other manfacturer offers our screen offset function which in the end makes a huge difference as it takes into account the chromaticity shift of the projection screen surface. This can be considerable when one is using a Gray screen for enhanced Contrast. The error of the screen can be dialed out during the calibration to provide perfect results.

The offset file allows one to calibrate the projector with the probe
oriented towrds the projector which is an added benefit as there is
considerably more light available from this position then reading from the
screen. The offset has the user calibrating the projector as if it were
being viewed from the screen instead of directly to the White target (ie
D65) value that other would be adjusting to. Without the offset file the
degree of error can be anwhere from minimal to very objectionable."

I have a Firehawk. Several folks I spoke to felt the stewart screens, even the Firehawk were pretty neutral with color shift so it may not be a big deal in my case, dunno. I didn't ask Cliff about that screen specifically (yet).


HTH,
Scott
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post #95 of 137 Old 01-22-2005, 06:44 AM
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I recently saw a Stewart Studiotek 130 against another matt white screen, and the other brand had a very slight pink tint to it, whilst the Stewart looked white. Funny how you don't notice things like that until you have a side by side comparison.

Gary.

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Originally Posted by elmalloc
Who says Cameron is "right" and why do we care about him so much - lol!

I trust Gary Lightfoot more than James Cameron.
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post #96 of 137 Old 01-22-2005, 08:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by ghibliss
The OpticONE and CA-6X software packages provide a screen offset function with files which were made by measuring each manufacturers screen materials directly from the screen with a PhotoResearch PR-650 for each primary color as well as White and then referencing that to the measured light taken directly from the projector using the PR-650 cosine receptor. The difference between the two measurements provides the offset for the file's which we make which are in XYZ format for accuracy when measuring any color of light as opposed to xy offset files which are accurate only for axial measurements (levels of Gray).

Thanks for the explanation, Cliff and for the great demo at CEDIA. My OpticOne/AviaPro just arrived yesterday, so after this weekend I'm sure I'll have a number of questions for you.

Enjoy!

Mike
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post #97 of 137 Old 01-22-2005, 09:18 AM
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Hey Mike: When you get it going, how about starting a new thread "OpticONE/Progressive Labs owners thread" or some such. In any case, please let us know how it goes. Thanks, Scott
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post #98 of 137 Old 01-22-2005, 07:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by scotthorton
[b]Hey Mike: When you get it going, how about starting a new thread "OpticONE/Progressive Labs owners thread" /B]
I think this is a great idea and would suggest that it be placed in the tweak section and be made a "sticky".
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post #99 of 137 Old 01-22-2005, 10:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Gary Lightfoot
With the sensor that I have, I found taking readings from the screen gave me a very red image that was easily noticable when viewing the greyscale. Taking readings direct from the pj and the greyscale looked grey. I would say to try both ways, and if one is giving you an obvious colour shift, don't use it.

Of course, taking the readings from the pj doesn't take into account any color shift the screen will have (if any), or any effects of colour from the room onto the screen. In my case, I have a white screen and a grey room, so the effects are minimal, and taking readings from the pj are more accurate than not in my case.

Gary.
Ok I hv the Tri chromat sensor also, if I aim it the correcto way at the pj won't having the menu's for RGB up effect things? On the screen you have allot of real estate to avoid the menus.

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post #100 of 137 Old 01-22-2005, 10:50 PM
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Well at the edge of the screen you have viewing angle and lens uniformity issues that make you less bright (but hopefully no chroma shift)

Or you could get Optoma to fix those damn menus already!
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post #101 of 137 Old 01-23-2005, 12:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Gary Lightfoot
I recently saw a Stewart Studiotek 130 against another matt white screen, and the other brand had a very slight pink tint to it, whilst the Stewart looked white. Funny how you don't notice things like that until you have a side by side comparison.
I've noticed this for years. I've measured countless ST130's in customer installations, using the Lightspex to measure the light from the projector at the screen and then the reflected light, and they all match within +/-0.002. Amazing.

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post #102 of 137 Old 01-23-2005, 02:59 AM
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Tom - when you select the rgb to adjust, it goes to just a single bar, so you can position the sensor above it, or you can do as Kras suggested and use it of to the side.

It seemed to work ok too. The only problem I had was when I had two filters screwed together, the light would flare outside and affect the sensor. Having the two glass filtyers back to back in the sme holder fixed that though.

Gary.

Quote:
Originally Posted by elmalloc
Who says Cameron is "right" and why do we care about him so much - lol!

I trust Gary Lightfoot more than James Cameron.
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post #103 of 137 Old 01-23-2005, 01:04 PM
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Gary

The problem is the menu popup wacks the sensor - loses it's white reading and goes wacky. Then you have to wait for it to settle down. Slows you way way down - then you forgot which way you were adjusting because the graphs are haywire.

On a display that has the menu on the side - much easier to do. You don't lose your mind - and neither does the sensor.
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post #104 of 137 Old 01-23-2005, 03:44 PM
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I know what you mean, which is why I moved it off to the side and out of the way. It certainly was a pain.

Any tips or pointers for achieving higher than 2600:1 CR (calibrated) on the H77? :)

Gary.

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Originally Posted by elmalloc
Who says Cameron is "right" and why do we care about him so much - lol!

I trust Gary Lightfoot more than James Cameron.
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post #105 of 137 Old 01-23-2005, 04:00 PM
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Swap for a Guitarman golden unit straight from Optoma?

All of his demos seem to have juicy colors, high contrast and extreme brightness

:D :D

Seriously - know that green is the primary determiner of luminance - while blue has little impact. So if you have a choice of RGB changes to make - keep that in mind. You have done everything else besides buy a stock of color filters to try and maximize RGB!

Also move the sensor back to the center for the on/off reading after being off center to do your greyscale - it will likely be higher.
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post #106 of 137 Old 01-23-2005, 04:34 PM
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Thanks for the tips. :)

Do you find the Hoya ND2 is consistent in it's behaviour with affecting CR? I tried a gel ND2 that I had laying around and that had a dissapointing result. Can you divulge any H77 CR figures you've achieved? ;)

Thanks.

Gary.

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Who says Cameron is "right" and why do we care about him so much - lol!

I trust Gary Lightfoot more than James Cameron.
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post #107 of 137 Old 01-23-2005, 04:45 PM
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Only did the H30 - see my .sig review. I have had nibbles for my services on Optoma H77 but they are dismayed it will take longer than Infocus and I have to charge full rate.
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post #108 of 137 Old 01-23-2005, 04:57 PM
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Well I hope someone decides to allow you to do it, as I'm very curious to see what can really be achieved from the H77. If anyone can, you can. :)

Gary.

Quote:
Originally Posted by elmalloc
Who says Cameron is "right" and why do we care about him so much - lol!

I trust Gary Lightfoot more than James Cameron.
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post #109 of 137 Old 01-23-2005, 05:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by krasmuzik
Swap for a Guitarman golden unit straight from Optoma?

All of his demos seem to have juicy colors, high contrast and extreme brightness

:D :D

Seriously - know that green is the primary determiner of luminance - while blue has little impact. So if you have a choice of RGB changes to make - keep that in mind. You have done everything else besides buy a stock of color filters to try and maximize RGB!

Also move the sensor back to the center for the on/off reading after being off center to do your greyscale - it will likely be higher.

Cherry picked lol
Wing told me he used the service picture menu for RGB. Wierd first time I used it (DVI) the menu which is small was up at the top left corner. Last time I tuned a interlaced signal it was the smaller menu but this time in the middle, further testing is needed. :)

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post #110 of 137 Old 01-25-2005, 12:10 PM
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For those owners, potential owners of the OpticONE/Progressive Labs calibration package I have set up a HT forum neutral forum for us at:

OpticONE Forum

Hopefully it will be a easy place to share and help each other use it best.

Cheers,
Scott
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post #111 of 137 Old 01-25-2005, 12:26 PM
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Seems like a forum on the Ovation Software site would be an obvious place for mutual customer support. Even just for the AVIA DVD - rather than trying to hunt down Guy Kuos tidbits spread across various forums.
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post #112 of 137 Old 01-25-2005, 01:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by krasmuzik
Seems like a forum on the Ovation Software site would be an obvious place for mutual customer support. Even just for the AVIA DVD - rather than trying to hunt down Guy Kuos tidbits spread across various forums.
While I value Guys's input very much indeed, for these purposes, I'm particularly interested in Cliff (the creators) input and I have invited him to join in (and he has). It's not about Avia per se, it's about using OpticONE software and using the Progressive Labs CA-6X sensor. Some folks will use Avia, some Avia Pro, some an Accupel generator. You get some nice automation features with AviaPro and the Accupel, but Cliff says if you want to do it the hard(er) way, plain Avia's gray patterns will work fine sans automation.
Thanks, Scott
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post #113 of 137 Old 01-25-2005, 02:16 PM
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Just surprised that the manufacturers have an informational website without a forum is all! That is the first place someone will look for advice.

I am not a fan of Yahoo groups advertising policies as well.
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post #114 of 137 Old 01-25-2005, 02:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by krasmuzik
Just surprised that the manufacturers have an informational website without a forum is all! That is the first place someone will look for advice.

I am not a fan of Yahoo groups advertising policies as well.
I agree completely on both points. As for Yahoo, just didn't have a ad-free spot to get it going. Maybe later...
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post #115 of 137 Old 01-25-2005, 03:41 PM
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I like the colors and natural picture I get with the One-eye. This morning I did the Tri-chromat calibration over again this time using the One-eye. This is the second time I've taken a look at this, each time I preferred the Macbeth. I did change in the option exposure to 8000/grayscale. The first thing I noticed is 30IRE level changes were very fast and similar to to same speed as the Tri-chromat. You colorfacts guys, would this be right?

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post #116 of 137 Old 01-25-2005, 04:03 PM
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"8000/grayscale"
Default is 5000ms and quickining 3000ms is quite a bit less exposure.
I'd be careful changing the defaults Tom. The Eye-One needs all the light it can get in the lower IRE's.

Plenty of testing was done choosing those default settings, and if I remember they were tweeked a few times in the progressive software up-grade versions of CF.
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post #117 of 137 Old 01-25-2005, 04:10 PM
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Tom,

I would let it take several readings at low IRE to see if your setting achieves stability. I found the Eye-One painful to calibrate with because of high exposures - but found I could not lower them without causing instability. See how well the RGB histogram tracks over time without making any changes.
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post #118 of 137 Old 01-25-2005, 04:11 PM
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Someone a little further back said in the options arae to change to 8000 for the One-eye. There's about 10 area's to change in exposure, I figured he meant grayscale, is that wrong?

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post #119 of 137 Old 01-25-2005, 04:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by krasmuzik
Tom,

I would let it take several readings at low IRE to see if your setting achieves stability. I found the Eye-One painful to calibrate with because of high exposures - but found I could not lower them without causing instability. See how well the RGB histogram tracks over time without making any changes.
I did a tracking test after, from 30 to 90 was very good. I could mess around with 100 and 20 & 10 but you know how that goes.

What I use for a video test lately is Pirates of the Carribean, the Pirates be warned scene/ Johnny depp entrance. If your colors are off Johnny won't look too good. lol

It's a very saturated face tone there. Also I use Oceans Eleven, that's another one were if you're not tuned best the saturation will kill the image.

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post #120 of 137 Old 01-25-2005, 04:22 PM
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Wait I mean is just leave it clicking while set to 20-30IRE - see if it is stable.
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