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post #181 of 933 Old 09-20-2005, 03:46 PM
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I have a recently acquired a Spyder 2 Pro
It works great on my CRT PC monitor and even my TFT monitor, but on my CRT RPTV it is WAY off, with a very red color balance.
Anyone have an explanation or fix for this?

As a work around, I calibrated my Sony G500 monitor and use it as a reference to calibrate my CRT RPTV.
Both are running from the same HTPC.
This works well, but is tedious to say the least.

Thanks,

Owen
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post #182 of 933 Old 09-20-2005, 04:11 PM - Thread Starter
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Owen - you mean the sensor is off on your RPTV? Have you tried it with and without the filter?
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post #183 of 933 Old 09-20-2005, 04:26 PM
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Your Kevin Bacon comment made me laugh Ursa!

Wild Things right Kras? Forgive me if I am wrong - I haven't watched many KB movies lately.
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post #184 of 933 Old 09-20-2005, 04:46 PM
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Ummm no - Wild Things is in the category - "two hot young starlets getting frisky in the pool so you don't remember there were any guys there but you (in your dreams!)"
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post #185 of 933 Old 09-21-2005, 04:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ursa View Post

Owen - you mean the sensor is off on your RPTV? Have you tried it with and without the filter?


I have tried using the sensor with and without the filter on the TV and get unusable results either way.

There is nothing wrong with the sensor or the software as they work fine on my Sony CRT PC monitor and Notebooks TFT monitor.

There is something strange about the way the spyder perceives color on the RPTV.
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post #186 of 933 Old 09-21-2005, 04:55 AM
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"When Milori was stand-alone, they originally used a modified version of the Spyder1. Then they switched to using the EyeOne by GretagMacbeth (GMB) and the Trichromat-1, OEMed by Sequel Imaging. GretagMacbeth bought Sequel Imaging, so Milori was sourcing both sensors from GMB. Datacolor bought Milori and folded it into its consumer division under the Colorvision name. Datacolor and GMB compete against each other in the industrial market, so ColorFacts needed a new sensor. That new sensor needs to be as accurate, if not more so, than the Trichromat-1, and preferrably the EyeOne for ColorFacts' sake.

Still with me? Time for the big close...

.....

Basically, if you have a CRT-based display AND you have either the base or Plus Spyder2 packages, then all you need to buy is the PRO upgrade, and you have access to the xyY data. No secret sauce required!"

doesn't this mean that, even with a crt, the new sensor would be more sensitive and accurate at the lower light levels when setting grey-scale?

BTW, I have Optical.... wouldn't this give me the same xyY info?


Jim White
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post #187 of 933 Old 09-21-2005, 05:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by krasmuzik View Post

Which movie did Kevin Bacon star in that his co-stars had more visible screen time than himself?

Hollow Man (When do I get my free SpyderTV????)

don...

Ferengi Five Stages of Acquisition: 1. Infatuation. 2. Justification. 3. Appropriation. 4. Obsession. 5. Resell
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post #188 of 933 Old 09-21-2005, 06:38 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimwhite View Post

doesn't this mean that, even with a crt, the new sensor would be more sensitive and accurate at the lower light levels when setting grey-scale?

BTW, I have Optical.... wouldn't this give me the same xyY info?


If you have OptiCAL, a Spyder2 and a CRT (FP, RP or Direct-view) then you are all set. In so far as I have been told, the "secret sauce" in the new Spyder2 is about accuracy for these new-fangled technologies. You really gain nothing as a CRT owner if you already have all of this for doing your own modeling. There may be other reasons to upgrade from OptiCAL to the PRO software, but that is for an entirely different article.

Charles Black and Brian Hampton have covered some of this ground in the FP CRT forum. You may want to pull up some of their threads on this (search for Spyder in that forum - a few good hits there!)

Later,
Bill
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post #189 of 933 Old 09-21-2005, 06:42 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Owen View Post

I have tried using the sensor with and without the filter on the TV and get unusable results either way.

There is nothing wrong with the sensor or the software as they work fine on my Sony CRT PC monitor and Notebooks TFT monitor.

There is something strange about the way the spyder perceives color on the RPTV.

Are you using the raw xyY data to make adjustments, or are you using a profile?

Given the success folks have had for a while with the Spyder2 in FP set-ups, I am really curious at your experience - the difference in screen materials should not cause THAT much of a shift...

Later,
Bill
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post #190 of 933 Old 09-21-2005, 07:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ursa View Post

Are you using the raw xyY data to make adjustments, or are you using a profile?

Given the success folks have had for a while with the Spyder2 in FP set-ups, I am really curious at your experience - the difference in screen materials should not cause THAT much of a shift...

Later,
Bill


Bill,
So fare I have only used the Spyder pro software and Optical to create profiles.
Both give a similar result, with an image that is fare too red.

I now have the RPTV set up as best as possible using the calibrated Sony monitor as a reference, and using the RGB Gain and Cut controls on the TV.
I then made minor adjustment to the RGB gamma curves on the PC, to fine tune the overall gamma and correct none linearity's that I could not correct using the Gain- Cut adjustments on the TV.

I have not tried the xyY method yet, so if you could give me some pointers, I would appreciate it.

PM me if you like.

Thanks mate.

Owen
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post #191 of 933 Old 09-21-2005, 07:47 AM - Thread Starter
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Owen - Check lewdawg's post earlier in the thread to see how to get close to D65 at two points in the grayscale. I would do this before creating a profile (the "PreCAL" portion of OptiCAL and PRO), so that the graphics card is working less hard with the profile.

As I have posted previously in other threads, I am not a fan of profiles absent other calibration efforts.

Later,
Bill
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post #192 of 933 Old 09-21-2005, 08:16 AM
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Bill,
I'm actually using very little correction on the PC, as the TV is now very close to the mark on it's own.
Unfortunately, I cant get the TV perfect across the range with Gain and Cut adjustment alone, as the gamma is not quite the same for RG and B.
I will go look for lewdawgs posts now thanks.

Owen
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post #193 of 933 Old 09-21-2005, 08:35 AM
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Owen, I am waiting on a SpyderTV. I have been using a Spyder for my computer CRT for many years, in that case many of the final adjustments are made by OptiCal tweaking the LUT for my video card. In the case of my CRT TV, I will have to be ready to modify the Gains and Cuts for the guns. I have a pretty good idea of why I'd use the Gain setting (I have the same on my PC monitor), but when would it be necessary to use the Cut?
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post #194 of 933 Old 09-21-2005, 10:02 AM
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Did you place the Spyder2 dead center on the screen? If you place it too far to the left or right it will throw off your measurements by reading more light from whichever gun is closest.
Are you placing the Spyder directly against the screen? If so I would advise mounting it on a tripod a few inches away from the screen the same way the FP guys do.
If you have a protective antiglare screen (like most RPTVs do) it may also be throwing off measurements. Again try taking measurements with a tripod from further away. Also make sure that you are eliminating as much ambient light as possible.
I used a Spyder1 to set grey scale on my Hitachi RPTV with results good enough to keep me out of the service menu for a year and a half. I have a SpyderTV now which confirms that my earlier measurements are within the bulls-eye for D65.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Owen View Post

I have tried using the sensor with and without the filter on the TV and get unusable results either way.

There is nothing wrong with the sensor or the software as they work fine on my Sony CRT PC monitor and Notebooks TFT monitor.

There is something strange about the way the spyder perceives color on the RPTV.

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post #195 of 933 Old 09-21-2005, 10:27 AM
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HollowMan is correct! No free SpyderTV's here though!
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post #196 of 933 Old 09-21-2005, 10:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tonyptony View Post

Owen, I am waiting on a SpyderTV. I have been using a Spyder for my computer CRT for many years, in that case many of the final adjustments are made by OptiCal tweaking the LUT for my video card. In the case of my CRT TV, I will have to be ready to modify the Gains and Cuts for the guns. I have a pretty good idea of why I'd use the Gain setting (I have the same on my PC monitor), but when would it be necessary to use the Cut?

The CUT is for the low IRE point. Sometimes adjusting the Gain will affect the Cut and vice versa.
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post #197 of 933 Old 09-21-2005, 11:50 AM
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Ursa

Nice Job on the comparison! I am sure that took a lot of time and effort.

One thing I was hoping you could compare was the Spyder2 Pro 2.0 front projection SW upgrade vs the STV vs the EyeOne. There has to be a major difference in the software b/c before I downloaded the 2.0 SW I had to remove the filter while working on my Toshiba CRT RPTV or I would get ridiculously erroneous readings while using the colorimeter. Since the upgrade, the filter must be attached to get proper readings. I have not tried it on my Samsung HLP- 5063W DLP RPTV yet. My Toshiba has been recently cal'd by a well known calibrator and the readings returned were very close to spot on especially at the higher IRE. I just do not know if the DLP readings will be as reliable b/c I do not have a point of reference.

Alvin
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post #198 of 933 Old 09-21-2005, 04:22 PM
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Quote:


The CUT is for the low IRE point. Sometimes adjusting the Gain will affect the Cut and vice versa.

Thanks Lee. That makes a lot of sense.
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post #199 of 933 Old 09-21-2005, 06:37 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alwilli View Post

Ursa

Nice Job on the comparison! I am sure that took a lot of time and effort.

One thing I was hoping you could compare was the Spyder2 Pro 2.0 front projection SW upgrade vs the STV vs the EyeOne. There has to be a major difference in the software b/c before I downloaded the 2.0 SW I had to remove the filter while working on my Toshiba CRT RPTV or I would get ridiculously erroneous readings while using the colorimeter. Since the upgrade, the filter must be attached to get proper readings. I have not tried it on my Samsung HLP- 5063W DLP RPTV yet. My Toshiba has been recently cal'd by a well known calibrator and the readings returned were very close to spot on especially at the higher IRE. I just do not know if the DLP readings will be as reliable b/c I do not have a point of reference.

Alvin

Alvin - My first set of tests used the PRO v2.0 beta software with my DLP. There was a bit of inconsistency between the PRO and STV software for luminance. However, with the shipping releases, I think they have harmonized the code bases, so I'd be real surprised if there was such a big difference using the shipping code and the shipping hardware.

Later,
Bill
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post #200 of 933 Old 09-21-2005, 07:48 PM
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Might be stupid question but anyway: If I tune in the D65 color temperature using RGB Cut and Gain, do I still need Tint and Color control? From my understanding is once you manage to achieve close to D65, your color should be dead on accurate without any green or red push. Please enlighten me.
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post #201 of 933 Old 09-22-2005, 04:44 AM
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you set D65 using the luminence channel i.e. no "color".... black and white.... that sets white to "white".... THEN you need to attack the color decoding chain.... seperate issues!


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post #202 of 933 Old 09-22-2005, 06:17 AM - Thread Starter
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You can do gamma mostly with the luminance (Y) channel, since green dominates our perception of brightness. However, setting your white point to D65 very much requires all three colors to be balanced.

Later,
Bill
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post #203 of 933 Old 09-22-2005, 06:25 AM
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OK. Thanks for the explanation. Going to order SpyderTV soon.
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post #204 of 933 Old 09-22-2005, 02:16 PM
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Update:

I have the SpyderTV, over the weekend I ordered the Spyder2Pro upgrade software for the $89 from the link I posted above.

I received the Spyder2Pro upgrade today, installed software entered in the 'key" number that was provided with the software, plugged in my SpyderTV sensor, is seen it as a Spyder2 sensor, and it ran with no problems at all. So I went to Colorvison website to download the new Spyder2Pro ver 2.0 upgrade, as the version I was sent was the older 1.0.5 version. And again, the installation process went perfect with no problems at all.

Also just a note.
My SpyderTV witch was ordered direct from Colorvison during the 'pre-order' special pricing. Is also another one of those that is version sw:3cl/hw:3cl
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post #205 of 933 Old 09-22-2005, 02:32 PM
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I hope you're right because I just ordered the PRO2 upgrade (to go with my SpyderTV) from the link you posted. All I want to do is calibrate my front projector and my RPTV and Colorvision apparently doesn't want to make it an easy process.

Is it me or does it seem like Colorvision's left hand doesn't know what its right hand is doing?

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post #206 of 933 Old 09-22-2005, 03:19 PM - Thread Starter
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Personally, I just think that we may have interests in both products that are slightly outside the intended target audiences!

Later,
Bill
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post #207 of 933 Old 09-25-2005, 03:48 AM
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Hi Guys,

This is just the Spyder2 sensor as far as I can tell, bundled with Pantone Colourist software:

http://www.dabs.com/uk/Search2/Produ...hphrase=spyder

Does anyone know if the software that comes with it can give the xyY data we need? If so, it's an even cheaper option.

Gary.

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post #208 of 933 Old 09-25-2005, 08:02 AM - Thread Starter
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Gary - That's the "base" model, and it does not give xyY data. Only the PRO and TV versions do.

Later,
Bill
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post #209 of 933 Old 09-25-2005, 08:05 AM
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Thanks Bill.

Just a thought though - isn't it just the software that gives the data, and the sensors are all the same?

Gary.

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Who says Cameron is "right" and why do we care about him so much - lol!

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post #210 of 933 Old 09-26-2005, 08:16 AM
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Okay I am confused with all the talk between Spyder2 Pro and SpyderTV. Bottom line I want to know now is if I purchase just SpyderTV, will I be able to calibrate my front projector? Thanks in advance for any feedback you guys can provide.

Justin Phillips
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