New calibration disc - Page 18 - AVS Forum
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post #511 of 2308 Old 01-19-2006, 06:42 AM
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get gray,

I just did the THX training level 2 and we got demo' and the glasses. They are great. Why did we not think of that before,

Larry
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post #512 of 2308 Old 01-19-2006, 07:36 AM
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I've been following this thread for sometime now and I can honestly say that I am interested. At some point down the line I'll donate the suggested amount for the disc, I know a much more vivid image is possible with my DLP but it wouldn't hurt to be pointed in the right direction. I do have to ask, how big the VIDEO_TS folder is? Main reason I'm asking is because I want to be sure that I'm purchasing the right batch of media rather than wasting potential disc space.
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post #513 of 2308 Old 01-19-2006, 09:11 AM
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Ohh ok, I did not quite understand the instructions. I thought you said that one pattern was in the 5.0d1 complete disc and the second pattern was on the lipsync one. The pattern on the 5.0d1 disc did not have the audio, that is why I made the no audio to audio comparison. So, I just compared those two patterns.

Anyway, I went back and looked at the two different patterns. I like the one with the two boxes that blink instead of the one with the circle in the middle. The one with the boxes seems to be much easier on the eyes.
Sorry about the confusion!
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post #514 of 2308 Old 01-19-2006, 11:05 AM
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I like the circle one better as well. The squares look non-intuitive, like something is messed up, while the circle looks like the rectangle thingie is "blowing up" when it touches the wall, and it seems to "match" the generation of a sound better.

I might make the circle a different color, though, like red.

BTW, I presume that you are waiting for my paypal virtual check to "clear before zapping me the links?!
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post #515 of 2308 Old 01-19-2006, 03:44 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lkosova View Post

I just did the THX training level 2 and we got demo' and the glasses. They are great. Why did we not think of that before

We did it's back in this thread somewhere. And I think it's in Claus's doc, too.


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post #516 of 2308 Old 01-19-2006, 06:42 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LR6AGB001 View Post

I've been following this thread for sometime now and I can honestly say that I am interested. At some point down the line I'll donate the suggested amount for the disc, I know a much more vivid image is possible with my DLP but it wouldn't hurt to be pointed in the right direction. I do have to ask, how big the VIDEO_TS folder is? Main reason I'm asking is because I want to be sure that I'm purchasing the right batch of media rather than wasting potential disc space.

It is very small relative to DVD's. Uncompressed it's about 300Mb. So it won't put a dent in a single sided 4+ Gb DVD+/-R


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post #517 of 2308 Old 01-19-2006, 06:51 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by profjoe View Post

I like the circle one better as well. The squares look non-intuitive, like something is messed up, while the circle looks like the rectangle thingie is "blowing up" when it touches the wall, and it seems to "match" the generation of a sound better. I might make the circle a different color, though, like red.

OK, one vote blocks, one vote circle (in diff color). Any other tribe menbers?

profjoe, re the other thing, you just didn't get the mail, I just pasted it into a PM to you here.


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post #518 of 2308 Old 01-19-2006, 07:01 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lkosova View Post

get gray,

I just did the THX training level 2 and we got demo' and the glasses. They are great. Why did we not think of that before,

Larry

Larry, do you have any good THX contacts? Maybe I could get them to sell me a box full.


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post #519 of 2308 Old 01-20-2006, 06:15 AM
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getgray:

don't know why it disappeared, perhaps it happed at the school/university level. my servers here don't seem to have it in the spam folder.

anyhow, thanks for the links. I am looking forward to playing with it tonight.

joe

PS. I would have thought it totally reasonable if you *were* waiting for the payment to clear...
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post #520 of 2308 Old 01-20-2006, 09:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GetGray View Post

No opinions one way or the other on the 2 lipsync patterns? Like'em, don't like'em, both stink ?

I downed 5.0b several weeks ago and noticed the lack of audio in the lipsync pattern. My THX glasses have not arrived yet, but when they do, the newer 5.0d with lipsync audio would be nice. How do we beta testers go about getting the newer betas?
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post #521 of 2308 Old 01-20-2006, 10:12 AM
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"How do we beta testers go about getting the newer betas?"

just follow the link in your original e-mail from GetGray


Jim White
St. Petersburg, FL
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post #522 of 2308 Old 01-20-2006, 01:47 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by profjoe View Post

PS. I would have thought it totally reasonable if you *were* waiting for the payment to clear...

It's cheap, I can afford to be trusting for some of them
Quote:
Originally Posted by rbbnet View Post

I downed 5.0b several weeks ago and noticed the lack of audio in the lipsync pattern. My THX glasses have not arrived yet, but when they do, the newer 5.0d with lipsync audio would be nice. How do we beta testers go about getting the newer betas?

Lipsync audio is not on the main disc yet. Only on the "mini-disc" which is linked directly for public download above. Use your same access credentials to get the updates. 5.0d1 is current, has sound on the auto-gray , not on the lipsync..... and , what Jim said.


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post #523 of 2308 Old 01-20-2006, 01:54 PM - Thread Starter
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FYI, I have to verify the audio is perfectly in-sync before I'll add it to the main disc. I posted the "mini-disc" link above to get input on the patterns on it. I'm also trying to change the beep to more of a tick sound to see how it goes.


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post #524 of 2308 Old 01-20-2006, 02:37 PM
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Scott, I like the circle a tad better. A different color might not be better. You might want to try it and see though. I'm not sure what color would be best, red might be as distracting as the black boxes. I would think you want just a clue (maybe a smaller "ball"? in a different color -- say maybe yellow or green ).

- Claus {non-Santa model}
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post #525 of 2308 Old 01-20-2006, 03:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GetGray View Post

Use your same access credentials to get the updates. 5.0d1 is current, has sound on the auto-gray , not on the lipsync..... and , what Jim said.

OK... sounds too easy... HOWEVER!!!! I don't read these forums daily anymore and tend to skip several days worth of posts. I obviously missed the day where keeping our credentials, user/pass, was discussed. I used my credentials then chunked the email after getting the zip down and burnt to DVD. OOPS.
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post #526 of 2308 Old 01-20-2006, 05:20 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rbbnet View Post

OK... sounds too easy... HOWEVER!!!! I don't read these forums daily anymore and tend to skip several days worth of posts. I obviously missed the day where keeping our credentials, user/pass, was discussed. I used my credentials then chunked the email after getting the zip down and burnt to DVD. OOPS.

I keep records of them, I'll look it up and send it. My be tomorrow before I can.. Edit: Email resent.


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post #527 of 2308 Old 01-20-2006, 05:41 PM
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Can this disc be used in a HTPC for calibration purposes? If you set the PCs DVD player to play back the disc and put it in full window mode (say 1920x1080) will it scale these patterns ok?
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post #528 of 2308 Old 01-20-2006, 05:41 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CT_Wiebe View Post

Scott, I like the circle a tad better. A different color might not be better. You might want to try it and see though. I'm not sure what color would be best, red might be as distracting as the black boxes. I would think you want just a clue (maybe a smaller "ball"? in a different color -- say maybe yellow or green ).

My idea/intention was this.. Obviously to come up with a pattern to determine the video is in sync with the audio, but that's harder (for me visually) than it sounded. When watching an out-of-sync movie, personally I don't have the reflexes to tell quite which way it's off (early or late), but I *can* see it's definately wrong. The plan with the moving bar was to give the ability to "predict" when the audio beep/click/etc would happen. A moving bar gives a visual expectation and improves the reflex I think. Human reflexes, or at least mine make it more difficult to associate an almost instantaneous visual event and an instantaneous audio event such as a single beep and blink. Har dfor me to align when we are talking about hundreths of a second. I thought it would be easier to tell if the tone came early or late as opposed to just a blink by using a moving bar. Due to DVD/YCbCr/MPEG issues, we don't have the perfectly sharp lines we would prefer on moving lines so it becomes a little less accurate to see when exactly the bar really touches. That theory was unscientifically confirmed when you mentioned it looked like the moving bar and the flashing dots were off a little but it was actually the same video frame .

I added the blinking element to help determining the exact moment when the bar touches, and it's that moment the sound starts. The "blink" lasts for one frame, as does the (current) tone. So I've tried several patterns as those following along know. What I have decided is at least *I* tend to watch the movement of the bar anticipating it's "touch". I think the pattern where teh superimposed "ball" blinks works best because it is effectively part of the moving bar element and does not pull your attention away from the moving bar itself. In contrast, the external blinking elements (black boxes) must be watched for (focused on) somewhat separately or peripherally from the bar to get the "sync". But then the moving bar is distracting.

So... I think a blink is good as a confirming video element as for exactly when the sound should occur, but the blink needs to be tied in some fashion to the moving element (bar) so the eyes can keep focus on the same element and have the advantage of prediction the moving bar brings and the confirmation of the blink.

Seem reasonable?

S


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post #529 of 2308 Old 01-20-2006, 05:44 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lovingdvd View Post

Can this disc be used in a HTPC for calibration purposes? If you set the PCs DVD player to play back the disc and put it in full window mode (say 1920x1080) will it scale these patterns ok?

Should work just fine. Actually, since you are presumably going to be watching DVD's with the HTPC, you *need* to calibrate with a disc like this one to get it right. If it will play DVD's properly, it will play the calibration disc properly, and vice versa. But Bob Sorrel would be our resident thread expert on the HTPC details. Bob is a HTPC forum moderator and he's who really got me started on this. Obviously he's using a HTPC with it. Bob, still monitoring?


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post #530 of 2308 Old 01-20-2006, 06:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GetGray View Post

I added the blinking element to help determining the exact moment when the bar touches, and it's that moment the sound starts. The "blink" lasts for one frame, as does the (current) tone. So I've tried several patterns as those following along know. What I have decided is at least *I* tend to watch the movement of the bar anticipating it's "touch". I think the pattern where teh superimposed "ball" blinks works best because it is effectively part of the moving bar element and does not pull your attention away from the moving bar itself. In contrast, the external blinking elements (black boxes) must be watched for (focused on) somewhat separately or peripherally from the bar to get the "sync". But then the moving bar is distracting.

Seem reasonable?

S

Yes! I guess I was in the same boat (anticipation). I think that's why I liked the ball over the black boxes - easier to keep concentration on the moving object. BTW, I looked at it with my video editor, and I saw that the bar turns black with a blue ball on the contact frame. This seems to make it look like the bar doesn't actually hit the edge. I would suggest that you keep the bar blue throughout the motion, and just add the ball of whatever color you settle on.

It looked like it should be easy to get the ball to show up on the one frame coincident with the bar touching the horizontal edges, and then add the ping/ding coincident with that frame. Based on your reported experiences, the "talk" is easier than the actual "doing". You got the ball/boxes right on, but I guess the sound sync isn't as easy as the manuals say (especially since you have to deal with some delay on any playback system).

- Claus {non-Santa model}
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post #531 of 2308 Old 01-20-2006, 09:28 PM
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Maybe it's just me but all these moving balls and bars kinda sounds like the old Pong game i used to play. Is that what is being used as a lyp/sink test? A colored ball w/moving bars that turn colors when the ball strikes it. It might also make for a unique screen saver should you put one in.

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post #532 of 2308 Old 01-21-2006, 01:17 AM
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Yeah, it does smack of Pong, but that's the principle - make the visual clues (the video) match the audible clues (the audio). The video gets delayed in the processing steps (deinterlacing and scaling) and the audio has to be delayed so that they are synchronized - hence "LipSync".

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post #533 of 2308 Old 01-21-2006, 01:15 PM - Thread Starter
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Hey guys, good news and bad news. I'm carefully doublechecking the patterns and using the disc on my own system to verify it's performance. I found an error in the main "Color/Tint" Pattern. The level of white in that pattern is 235, it should be 180. I'm surprised no one noticed it, since it would have made anyone's color adjustment very difficult if not impossible, and wrong. Sorry about that guys, comes with Beta software. But the good news is I'll have it fixed and uploaded as Beta 5.1 in about an hour.

In using the pattern, I have also changed it slightly. I removed the color box "matrix" in the upper right corner, and duplicated the animated part of the pattern on the right side of the screen. This is a fundamental pattern for color adjustment and some have had trouble depending on where their OSD popped up their menus. This will address and cure that issue.

Thanks, and my apologies again about the colorlevel error on that pattern. I'm not sure which beta introduced it.

Edit: 5.1 is being uploaded to the website now. Contributors use the same access instructions from your original email to access it. It will be avail at the top of the hour. If you are not in a hurry, you might want to wait until Monday. I'm hoping to revise a couple other patterns and have them ready for D/L by then. Wee hours of teh morning are a good time to load, please dont' everyone hit the server at once. If you hit it during the busiest times, the likelihood of getting a bad D/L increase.


Scott


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post #534 of 2308 Old 01-21-2006, 01:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GetGray View Post

I removed the color box "matrix" in the upper right corner,

Hi Scott,

your point reminde me to an issue at the Greyscale- and Color- Patterns. The labbeling for this patterns is in the Middle under the Pattern. Thats area is slightly hind by the tripod by calibrating with my Spyder. I think the better way is point it on the Top of the Patterns. What do you think?

Best Regards Damdy

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post #535 of 2308 Old 01-21-2006, 02:07 PM - Thread Starter
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I beat you to it. I'm putting them above and below for just the reason you point out and for the various OSD's that get in the way. I'm also changing the font as I touch up. Thanks for the excellent suggestion.


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post #536 of 2308 Old 01-21-2006, 04:07 PM
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No 5.1 beta on the site yet?


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post #537 of 2308 Old 01-21-2006, 04:49 PM - Thread Starter
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Try now... Had to update link.


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post #538 of 2308 Old 01-21-2006, 04:57 PM
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There we go!


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post #539 of 2308 Old 01-21-2006, 05:20 PM
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This is a pretty useful disk!

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post #540 of 2308 Old 01-22-2006, 04:40 AM
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Thanks for replying GetGray and also I'm wondering if anyone else is getting a dead link for purchasing the THX glasses?

http://www.thx.com/mod/products/dvd.html
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