New calibration disc - Page 22 - AVS Forum
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post #631 of 2308 Old 02-10-2006, 06:36 PM
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Originally Posted by bigmack71 View Post

I have tried to follow this thread all the way thru. I have ordered and will recieve my first DLP TV. It should arrive within the week. Is yours the disk for me? Realizing that most of what you folks have posted is Wayyyy over my head. I am getting a Samsung HL-R5078W and want it to look good so to that end I have read that calibration is necessary out of the box. I am a complete novice in this field.
Thank you for all your efforts in this endevour and time...


I'd say yes this cal disc may be for you. But it also depends on how capable of learning you are. Go get a copy of GetGrays' literature that has some instructions and general purpose info on this tool. If it looks like you can follow the info then yes the disc is for you. I too am nearly lost when it comes to proper cal of any screen. I've always simply tweaked the settings to my liking. I was able to make use of his disc with minimal instructions at the time. I'm simply awaiting what he feels to be the last improvement then I'll start all over.. even if I don't need to. You'll be amazed how much difference his disc can make.
http://www.calibrate.tv/GetGrayCalDisc5-1cDraft1.zip
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post #632 of 2308 Old 02-11-2006, 12:18 AM
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bigmack71 -- Welcome to the AVS Forum. Congratulations on your purchase. Calibration will help you get the maximum performance out of your display. If you find that the instructions "are over your head", then you might want to get the AVIA "Guide to Home Theater" DVD, it has more "hand-holding". However, it can be a bit overwhelming too. You will also need a "blue" filter. There are some suggestions in the "instructions", see Appendix A (in the latest version, see below).

NOTE: No questions are dumb. They just reflect a lack of knowledge and their are 2 ways to get the answers: (1) read up on the subject, and (2) ask questions.

You should go to http://www.calibrate.tv/ to get the latest version (Draft #6) of the "instructions" . Scroll to the bottom of the page. If the latest version of the instructions seem to be understandable to you, then by all means get the GetGray caldisc, it is easier to use than AVIA (but I'm experienced in using it). If you do have some questions, feel free to send me a PM, and I might be able to answer some of your questions (we were all noobs at one time ).

rbbnet -- Just curious as to why you pointed our new member to the older version of the instructions? You should get the latest one too.

- Claus {non-Santa model}
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post #633 of 2308 Old 02-11-2006, 06:23 AM
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Originally Posted by CT_Wiebe View Post


rbbnet -- Just curious as to why you pointed our new member to the older version of the instructions? You should get the latest one too.

Sorry... I simply scrolled back a few messages having remembered a link there. I haven't been following the progress of this thread nor yours and Getgray's work. I kept up sorta until version 5.0b and just came back in the last few to see where things were now. Lastly, I figured if he could fathom those instructions then he could make use of the disc. Either way I think we gave him the same end results... if you can follow the instructions then yes indeed this is for you.
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post #634 of 2308 Old 02-11-2006, 10:17 AM
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Scott - I played with the disc for the first time and wanted to give you Kudos on the project. Lots of hard work and it shows.

I hope that you will very soon add at least the full field windows we've discussed. It is critical for my calibration needs and the disc is not complete with these patterns. Patterns for more specific dynamic iris calibration can be done later of course but the full fields are a basic essential as the major discs has them.

My main motivation in donating was to support your great work and to eliminate having to go back and forth between VE and DVE for different patterns. Unfortunately without the full fields I still have to switch back and forth between your disc and DVE to get the full fields (and even at that I'm still stuck with just the 20 step full fields from DVE).

Thanks and keep up the great work!
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post #635 of 2308 Old 02-11-2006, 12:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lovingdvd View Post

My main motivation in donating was to support your great work and to eliminate having to go back and forth between VE and DVE for different patterns. Unfortunately without the full fields I still have to switch back and forth between your disc and DVE to get the full fields (and even at that I'm still stuck with just the 20 step full fields from DVE).

One solution. Since you own both GetGray and DVE, you could always use DVDShrink (or your favourite DVD editing tool) to create a "merged" disc with the DVE patterns after the GetGray ones.

Navigation would be a bit of a pain, but better than swapping discs.
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post #636 of 2308 Old 02-14-2006, 08:13 AM
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Can that be done without losing any detail/resolution?

How much of this thread do I need to read before knowing what I am doing with the disc? ...or are the instructions at the website for getgray enough?

I have a Hitachi TX200
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post #637 of 2308 Old 02-14-2006, 10:55 AM
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Creating a merged disk will not cause any loss as long as your are copying 1x1. There should be plenty of room to do this on a standard DVD.

Regarding you question about what to read before using the disk. I would read the instructions first and read the thread on calibration. This disk is usually for people experienced with calibration. It does have very useful patterns not found on other disks.
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post #638 of 2308 Old 02-14-2006, 11:12 AM
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Sorry I haven't kept up with this thread. For those experiencing an occasional "flicker" in the patterns with an Oppo, this is normal. I get the same flicker with certain patterns in Avia Pro as well. It's just a processing issue with the Oppo.

Great work on the disk and documentation BTW! It's now my standard for setting black and white level in calibrations.

Enjoy!

Mike
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post #639 of 2308 Old 02-14-2006, 11:22 AM
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I think DVE is dual layer and larger than a single disk? What you could do is just use the test pattern portion as that's under 2gig IIRC.

Gary

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post #640 of 2308 Old 02-14-2006, 01:40 PM
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Yep, just like a previous post mentioned, I am just talking about adding whatever useful DVE test patterns there are to a disc including the Get Gray material.
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post #641 of 2308 Old 02-14-2006, 04:33 PM
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The GetGray CalDisc is only about 375 MB on the DVD (est. less than 400 MB once everything gets finished), so there is plenty of room to add some other patterns, if you wish. The problem will be to get access to the added patterns, and you'll need a video editor for that (needs to write video transport streams in the VOB format).

It's not recommended, of course, but you're free to do it, afterall you paid for the DVD files and it's your nickle if you make a mistake. Doing so also violates the copyright agreements that you made when you purchased the calibration DVDs (GetGray and DVE).

Thanks Mike. I thought you might like it (I was wondering if you had tried it). I found it was both quicker and easier to use than AVIA (and definitely quicker than DVE) and more accurate to boot - provided you know what you're doing (and that you do!).

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post #642 of 2308 Old 02-14-2006, 05:33 PM
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lovingdvd - Your concern for adding test patterns for calibrating the grayscale on DI enabled displays (like yours) is appreciated. However, the GetGray DVD is very accurate for what it does. To keep in the same vein, the correct pattern requirements needed for calibration of DI displays must be determined and the tests patterns specified.

If you would start a new thread asking for inputs to establish these requirements and specifications, then we (GetGray, et al) can develop the necessary patterns. So far, you seem to be the only AVS member that has made any specific recommendations. More is needed, hopefully from members involved in ISF calibration of DI enabled displays, before such specifications and requirements can be finalized.

The sooner this is done, the sooner the requisite patterns can be developed and added to the GetGray Caldisc DVD files. Since you are the one who is doing the primary asking, you're elected to get the information .

Remember, the video calibration pattern requirements have been established and have undergone over 30 years of development. The use of DI, to expand perceived CR for fixed pixel displays, is very new, by comparison. Hopefully, it won't take anywhere near that long to establish requirements for correct DI grayscale calibration.

- Claus {non-Santa model}
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post #643 of 2308 Old 02-14-2006, 07:12 PM
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I loaded the disk and the menu comes up fine. When I enter the selection for brightness & contrast, I just default to the standard DVD audio/video blue screen on my Panasonic S97. It keeps doing that. It's connected via HDMI to an Optoma H78DC3 projector.

I am getting the color screens coming up and also got the whole gray scale 1 to 235 screen came up. I'm not clear on that gray screen how you should adjust it with the bars. I just tried to follow the general setup suggestion to keep the visible distinction of the lines. I didn't understand the boundary reference.

Am I missing something on the Brightness and contrast settings loading? Nothing comes up after repeated attempts on my Optoma H78DC3 via HDMI.

(The adjustment in the contrast and brightness settings does seem to have produced a nice improvement to the contrast ratio.)

It's all just a game. I just play to win.
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post #644 of 2308 Old 02-14-2006, 07:45 PM
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romanesq -- I'm a little confused with your question. You said that the Brightness & Contrast test patterns didn't come up, but then you followed that with statements that imply that you ran through all of those adjustments. At the opening screen, you need to hit the "Play" button. You step through the test patterns in each menu using the "Next" button. The "Title" or "Menu" buttons can be used to get to the "Root" menu.
{Just a repeat of what you should already know.}

Have you read the latest version of the "Instructions" (on the calibrate.tv site)? It does explain how to use the Black (Brightness) and White (Contrast) test patterns. Send me a PM if you still have problems (you might have made a bad DVD and may need to make another copy - see http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=613686 for questions on burning the DVD (the media is important, but so is burning at too high a speed). Also, DVD-R discs work better than DVD+R. You might want to unzip a new set of files (you might have lost one of the Video_TS files too).

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post #645 of 2308 Old 02-14-2006, 08:08 PM
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Well, I could always just stick the DVE test patterns on another DVD. I can backup the patterns, technically, but as to copyrights, I don't know. Anyhow, I have a 5 disc player, so it shouldn't be a problem doing one and then the other...
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post #646 of 2308 Old 02-14-2006, 09:58 PM
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You could stick AVIA in a third slot and play calibration "Russian Roulette" . With the HQV disc in a 4th slot, you could really do it up right .

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post #647 of 2308 Old 02-15-2006, 04:03 AM
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Not a big deal but, I was wondering if Scott was planning to include a blue filter with the final disks? Lee sells very inexpensive filter sheets that could be cut up. That is what I think AVIA is doing. Lee will send anyone a filter swatch book that contains many filters in it. I would hope that CT_Wiebe or Scott would get one and post the best filters to use from the swatch book. There are several hundred filters in the swatch book and many shades of blue. The swatch size is the same size as is included on the AVIA disk. Who knows Lee may even have them already cut up.

I do realize that there is information on how to get filters in the instructions for the disk but It might be nice to include them if it is possible. I own the THX glasses but I others have often had trouble getting the right filter. It took me 3 weeks and 4 phone calls to get the glasses. The cost of a 24"x24" sheet of deep blue from Lee has a MSP price of $6.95. There would be enough material to last a lifetime on one sheet. They could also easily be cut with any paper cutter. I bet that is what AVIA does.
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post #648 of 2308 Old 02-15-2006, 08:29 AM
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heheh..yeah, well the idea is to save $ so since I already bought DVE I'll just stick with that and getgray for now
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post #649 of 2308 Old 02-15-2006, 03:11 PM
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rwestley -- Scott (GetGray) is not planning on including filters (at this time), since that incurs shipping and handling costs as well as extra purchasing costs. The DVD files can be downloaded over the Internet with only handling costs. I believe he is considering the possibility (as an extra cost option), but not for right now. The sources are given in the Instructions (see the latest version on his www.calibrate.tv site - at the bottom of the page).

I don't have the Lee Filter swatch book, but I may get it and see what they supply. If and when I get it, I'll be able to tell you. For the blue filter, you want the one closest to #47B (which should be included), I assume that they're labeled.

I'm planning on using the filters supplied with my AVIA or DVE (I want to compare the two anyway).

- Claus {non-Santa model}
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post #650 of 2308 Old 02-15-2006, 03:19 PM
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Thanks CT Wiebe for your post. I just edited my first post after checking Lee filter swatch book. The filter recommeded by Scott is deep blue 120. There is one in the book that can be taken out. A 24"x24" sheet is only $6.95MSP. I hope you do ask Lee for the swatch book. It has many other interesting filters that may be useful. They will send it to you for no cost with the current catalogue. The size of the filters are the same that come with AVIA or are included with the CC store disk.
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post #651 of 2308 Old 02-15-2006, 04:45 PM
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Hi guys,
Some colorimeters (dtp92 for example), seem to work better with full screen patterns rather than windowed patterns. That is the main reason that I bought DVE (when I already had VE and SVHTTU). Having a repeat of the windowed patterns as unwindowed (actually fullscreen without the text), or probably better an interleaving of windowed followed by full screen would be really important to me.

Best,
jeff
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post #652 of 2308 Old 02-15-2006, 04:52 PM - Thread Starter
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I must need to unsub and resub to the thread. I didn't get any notificaiton of posts and go look manually and I see I'm behind!
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Originally Posted by MikeSRC View Post

Great work on the disk and documentation BTW! It's now my standard for setting black and white level in calibrations.

Thanks and very glad to hear it's useful!
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Originally Posted by cpc View Post

Yep, just like a previous post mentioned, I am just talking about adding whatever useful DVE test patterns there are to a disc including the Get Gray material.

Technically one can use DVD shrink etc. to do it but you will hose your (my)menus. And the navigation is the core reason for making the disc. Kinda defeats the purpose or part of it anyway.
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Not a big deal but, I was wondering if Scott was planning to include a blue filter with the final disks? Lee sells very inexpensive filter sheets that could be cut up. That is what I think AVIA is doing. Lee will send anyone a filter swatch book that contains many filters in it. I would hope that CT_Wiebe or Scott would get one and post the best filters to use from the swatch book. There are several hundred filters in the swatch book and many shades of blue. The swatch size is the same size as is included on the AVIA disk. Who knows Lee may even have them already cut up.

I do realize that there is information on how to get filters in the instructions for the disk but It might be nice to include them if it is possible. I own the THX glasses but I others have often had trouble getting the right filter. It took me 3 weeks and 4 phone calls to get the glasses. The cost of a 24"x24" sheet of deep blue from Lee has a MSP price of $6.95. There would be enough material to last a lifetime on one sheet. They could also easily be cut with any paper cutter. I bet that is what AVIA does.

Yes, eventually I plan to get a source for Blue Filters. But probably not too soon. I'm not geared up for shipping DVD's although mailing out filters woudln't be nearly as involved obviously. My first choice would be to persuade THX into hooking me up with some from them or their supplier. I doubt they like fooling with it, and I'd take some load off them. Maybe. Second choice would be the simple film filters. What's your Lee source, direct? Have their website? I'll see what I can do.

I have a release candidate ready except for one technical documentation issue I want to revisit (doing so offline).

Progressive Labs is making an addition to their software to allow the selection of IRE or % Amplitude calibration disc levels. This will make it 100% compatible with the GetGray DVD. Therefore I will not be making an IRE unit grayscale set (which if you didn't catch or didn't know is different than a %amplitude unit pattern set). This woudl have just confused beginners anyway I think. I do plan to complete a brief Appendix on the subject as a reference.
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post #653 of 2308 Old 02-15-2006, 08:10 PM
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Thanks Scott for your great disk and informative post. I doubt that THX would be interested in selling you the filters since they plan to come out with their own new disk. I had enough trouble getting a few filters from them. I think that you will find that Lee will be more than happy to work with you. They sent me the swatch book in a few days and were very helpful. You might want to give them a call when your are ready. Their deep blue filter is the one you recommended and there is one in the their free filter book. There are also about 200 others filters in their small swatch book.

Thanks again for all your work.

http://www.leefiltersusa.com/
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post #654 of 2308 Old 02-15-2006, 08:30 PM
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I don't know if it got lost, but is there an interest in including full screen versions of the windowed grayscale patterns. You include that and I'll definitely buy it.

jeff
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post #655 of 2308 Old 02-15-2006, 08:48 PM - Thread Starter
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*IF* I did it, I wouldn't want to interleave them becasue I for one would only use the window patterns and would want an uninterrupted "run" from 0 to 100 without having to skip. They would definately be their own sequence. Maybe a 5% step (only) sequence of fullscreen gray. No 10% set. Or, maybe a interleaved (window/full) sequence of 10% steps (20 patterns). I'll think about it. I still think their use is limited or would be a minority need.
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post #656 of 2308 Old 02-15-2006, 09:07 PM
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Thanks for considering it GetGray. I think you're right to have it it's own sequence. 20 patterns (10%steps) is more than enough. 10 would be sufficient.

Thanks,
jeff
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post #657 of 2308 Old 02-16-2006, 09:01 AM
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greeno -- That's interesting since I got the impression that lovingdvd considers that even 10% steps, full field, is not enough. But then, it looks like you would want it for colorimeter measurements with your dtp92 (?) whereas he wants it for setting his auto-iris (DI) performance. Those are two different requirements.

Scott, since this is a "minority" requirement, maybe the best compromise would be a set of 5% full field gray patterns in the Miscellaneous menu group. It seems to me to be the easiest compromise, "if you choose to accept the assignment" {- Mission Impossible }.

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post #658 of 2308 Old 02-16-2006, 10:53 AM
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CT_Wiebe,
that is exactly what I want it for - grayscale. If someone needs finer spacing 5%, but still fullfield, that would work for me also. I'd just use the FWD button on the remote ;-).

By the way, I did look through the patterns and IMO you guys are definitely filling an important void, in the test disc market and meeting your design right on. Great job to you all.

Best,
jeff
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post #659 of 2308 Old 02-16-2006, 11:11 AM - Thread Starter
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On PDA so typing worse than norm. OK, I give, I will *probably* add a full field set but it will/would be where its supposed to be, under gray patts. One set, full field,5%. That be sufficient for lvngdvd?
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post #660 of 2308 Old 02-16-2006, 12:51 PM
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I contributed and got GetGray's disc yesterday. I burnt the files 3 different times but could not get the bars in the black level test pattern to show on my player. after awhile I realized my player/dvr was on interlace mode. Once I switched to progressive mode the bars appeared (atleast 2 of them). Unfortunately then I realized for sure my LCD (Sharp 26D7U) will not display below video black (kinda figured this due to the lack of the below black bar displaying on DVE's patterns).

You might want to consider putting a note in the PDF documentation your making about needing to be in progressive mode. I know, you say leave my player in progressive mode. I do for viewing DVD's and HDD recorded material (anxious to try the disc I forgot to switch to progressive first) but the built-in analog tv tuner material looks slightly washed out in progressive mode so it's usually on interlace mode.
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