Which Drives and Cuts, plus other questions about calibrating a Sony CRT - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 13 Old 10-02-2005, 04:37 PM - Thread Starter
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Let me start with a little background. I've been a long time user of the Colorvision Spyder for my PC. I do a lot of photographic printing and use the Spyder as part of my calibration process. So I've become very familiar with color temperature, CIE charts, color workspace, gamma, etc. I also have a 36" Sony CRT that I've adjusted trying either Avia or (the original) Video Essentials. So I went and got the SpyderTV and Spyder2PRO upgrade - not only for my photographic work - but in the hopes that I will be able to tweak my set a bit closer to standard.

One of the first things I did when I got the TV was go into service mode and write down the value of every single setting. I'm an electrical engineer by trade so I usually dive into the lowest detail of anything I wind up buying. I also appreciate not changing anything until I have the tools and the understanding to do it.

My DVD player is hooked up to the Sony Video4 input (component). In looking at the service codes I see there are separate Drives and Cuts for the Video4 input. No problem. But then I also find that there is another set of separate Drives and Cuts for "Warm Color Temperature Offset". Now that got me a little confused. I am in fact using the "Warm" setting for Video4, so which Drives/Cuts should I use when calibrating?

And while I've read many of the threads here over the last few months (yes, I tend to plan things out), there are some practical concerns that I haven't been able to get the clearest handle on. So I have some more questions about calibrating a CRT TV:

1) In general, is it better to calibrate the primaries before the greyscale, or the other way around? (edit) Ignore this question, as Chris straightened me out about CRTs not having primary adjustment controls.

2) When using a measuring device like a Spyder or EyeOne on a TV, I assume it's better to set the "standard" controls (the ones normally available from the menu) to the center position just as a matter of good practice, and then use the Drives and Cuts in service mode to make the adjustments?

3) I've read http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=531494 , and there's a ton of great info there, but one of the recommendations is to go into a calibration process with SBRT set to 31, which is the max. Is there a consensus on this?

4) Related to 3, is it better to use the standard menu options to set the Black and White points, or is it all best done in the back and forth relationship of the service codes?
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post #2 of 13 Old 10-02-2005, 04:52 PM
 
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1) In general, is it better to calibrate the primaries before the greyscale, or the other way around?
A CRT does not have adjustable primaries, so not sure if you mean another adjustment. The Primary chromaticity of a CRT depends on the phosphor, and any filtering in the light path (only relevant on projection CRTs).
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post #3 of 13 Old 10-02-2005, 07:36 PM - Thread Starter
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Ah, once I read it it suddenly makes a ton of sense. Thanks for that, Chris. Too much confusion with the non-CRT devices we use all over the place at work.

Any thoughts on the other questions?
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post #4 of 13 Old 10-03-2005, 12:53 AM
 
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Your other questions are model-specific, I don't deal much with consumer CRT stuff, so I really don't know how the memories work, and what are master settings and sub-settings and how they interact. I would predict that either route would lead to the same end-image, the service options may allow you to adjust things deeped in the set so that the user control operates on that range to allow a tech/calibrator to set things so that a user can't intentionally/accidentally run things like white way too high for instance, etc. However, this is just an educated assumption, so for all I know this set may definitely prefer to be adjusted in one menu rather than another if the adjustments occur at different points in the signal path for instnace.
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post #5 of 13 Old 10-03-2005, 03:04 AM
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don't use the warm setting for your calibration... if your Sony is anything like my Hitachi, the cool setting is the baseline, the other "color temp settings" are offsets from cool...

:cool:

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post #6 of 13 Old 10-03-2005, 06:59 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by jimwhite
don't use the warm setting for your calibration... if your Sony is anything like my Hitachi, the cool setting is the baseline, the other "color temp settings" are offsets from cool...

:cool:
So even if I've been using the WARM seeting right now for my Video4 input I should reset it before I go off and do a service menu cal?
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post #7 of 13 Old 10-03-2005, 07:08 AM
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tonyptony,

I would not listen to someone who is guessing on service mode adjustments of a Sony set based on a Hitachi. The gray scale adjustments within various Sony models is not even the same much less between brands. I would suggest you look for adjustments for your particular model of display.

W. Jeff Meier


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post #8 of 13 Old 10-03-2005, 12:26 PM - Thread Starter
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Jeff, I have all the service codes for my set. I guess I have to find someone who has some hands on experience with how they play against each other.
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post #9 of 13 Old 10-03-2005, 01:51 PM
 
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don't use the warm setting for your calibration... if your Sony is anything like my Hitachi, the cool setting is the baseline, the other "color temp settings" are offsets from cool...
Well, that's great. On Sony's, warm is closest to D65.
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post #10 of 13 Old 10-03-2005, 05:20 PM
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"I would not listen to someone who is guessing on service mode adjustments of a Sony set based on a Hitachi."

give me a break .... I did say "if your Sony is anything like my Hitachi,".... did I need to emphasise the "if" ???? :rolleyes:

:cool:

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post #11 of 13 Old 10-04-2005, 08:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tonyptony
2) When using a measuring device like a Spyder or EyeOne on a TV, I assume it's better to set the "standard" controls (the ones normally available from the menu) to the center position just as a matter of good practice, and then use the Drives and Cuts in service mode to make the adjustments?

3) I've read http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=531494 , and there's a ton of great info there, but one of the recommendations is to go into a calibration process with SBRT set to 31, which is the max. Is there a consensus on this?

4) Related to 3, is it better to use the standard menu options to set the Black and White points, or is it all best done in the back and forth relationship of the service codes?
Assuming you have a lot of time on your hands to calibrate each active input, each resolution and such for contrast, brightness, color, etc...... yes. This way gives you the flexibility to change sources without having to fiddle with the remote too often. Drives and cuts are not associated with this procedure just yet.

Good thread, been their since the beginning. 31 is the default from the service manual. I can tell you mine was set from the factory @ 19, and I think I've fudged it a little since, but in no way could I run @ 31, and adjust my cuts to achieve an acceptable black level. I could never get it black !! IMO, that procedure is just overkill to achieving a decent black level.

As mentioned, sliders to the middle, adjust in the SM for each source you have. remember, 480i will have different parameters than say 480p or 1080i.

If you are going to do grayscale, USE NEUTRAL !!! The only way Sony's warm setting would be even close to D65 is if the grayscale itself in neutral is close. Say your 8500k in neutral and leaning green, no magic will happen when you switch to warm. Out of the box, that's just not going to happen. Set "neutral" to be your baseline grayscale.

Could you post your Spyders findings on temp target?
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post #12 of 13 Old 10-06-2005, 11:13 AM
 
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For black level i think an SBRT setting of 20-21 would be a good starting point then use UBOF to match the other inputs in black level.
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post #13 of 13 Old 10-06-2005, 06:01 PM - Thread Starter
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Guys, just wanted to let you know I will be getting to my tests this weekend (hopefully). Been a little busy with work.
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