Free calibration soft (non-excel) - Page 25 - AVS Forum
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post #721 of 3254 Old 12-14-2006, 04:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by greeno View Post

the probe can be used primarily to measure color content (gray, primary and secondaries) and tell you what changes to make to the controls (drives/cuts, color and tint
Best,
jeff

It doesn't actually tell you what changes to make to the controls.... does it? You have to read the graphs and interpret what to change. If it told me what to change then I'd be done by now! I think the hardest thing is knowing what to change for each graph.
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post #722 of 3254 Old 12-14-2006, 04:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HDholic
I also have an OPPO and I set my reference to HDTV. NTSC is off on the CIE Diagram in my case. Try both and calibrate to the most accurate one.

Not sure what is happening here but I have read many times NOT to use HDTV colorspace for upconverting dvd (I need to find some post)...I have personally never tried it and my color space NTSC using 0-255 hit every mark..I will give this way a go just to see.

Here is my Mits3000U file

 

calibration10_mitsDTP94.zip 1.0498046875k . file

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post #723 of 3254 Old 12-14-2006, 04:32 PM
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In my case, zenith 318 and lg 418, I need to use the HDTV colorspace since that's what my player outputs (with green slightly depressed because of the colorpsace mismatch - the player outputSD upconverted and the display's expecting HD). if the player's doing the right thing then you should use the SD (NTSC)page.

Best,
jeff
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post #724 of 3254 Old 12-14-2006, 04:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Orwellflash View Post

Thanks a lot Jeff. Very helpful. I am assuming, then, that the dtp probe is taking care of temp measurements, and adjusting for those, so I don't have to do anything more than to run HCFR's "calibrate internal sensor offsets" periodically during a calibration.

I will be calibrating a CRT TV now, so I will use CRT compensation. If I get a DLP projector in the future, would I use LCD mode, as has been specified when using the spyder probe?

Jack


Use LCD MODE for CRT you have. THe DTP-94 in CRT mode is only for direct-tv..I tried the LCD mode in the SPyder2 and LCD mode in DTP-94 and both came back nearly identical for my Mits55807 CRT..

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post #725 of 3254 Old 12-14-2006, 04:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nate358 View Post

It doesn't actually tell you what changes to make to the controls.... does it? You have to read the graphs and interpret what to change. If it told me what to change then I'd be done by now! I think the hardest thing is knowing what to change for each graph.

Nate, it doesnt tell you but by highlighting and IRE column, you should see if you have to much blue, red, green.

The key is highlighting an IRE an clicking on DISPLAY MEASURE INFORMATION icon..what you want is to get all 3 of those color bars at 100% or as close to it (well - I say that like its really that simple)

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post #726 of 3254 Old 12-14-2006, 04:50 PM
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correction - crt mode for the dtp-94 is for direct view and non-directview.
lcd is for, well lcd ;-)

jeff
Quote:
Originally Posted by richlo View Post

Use LCD MODE for CRT you have. THe DTP-94 in CRT mode is only for direct-tv..I tried the LCD mode in the SPyder2 and LCD mode in DTP-94 and both came back nearly identical for my Mits55807 CRT..

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post #727 of 3254 Old 12-14-2006, 04:58 PM
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Richlo... for some reason when I download your zip file it won't open up in HCFR

Greeno... I have the Zenith318 downstairs hooked up to a Panasonic AE700. I can tell you that the Oppo is by far a better DVD player... ok back on subject now.

I need some help figuring a few things out. 1)On the gray scale window In the lower right corner, there is a drop down that lists: near black, near white, and different Saturation color scales. What are these used for and what patterns do they use for reading?
2)On the "display" window there is: Sensor, RGB, XYZ, xyz, and xyY. What do these do? And which one should be selected? I noticed that after I took grey scale readings and switched which one was selected... the numbers in the gray scale window changed.
3) when I select the realtime capture, what patterns should I generate to when working on getting my colors to match up to the CIE Diagram?
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post #728 of 3254 Old 12-14-2006, 04:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by greeno View Post

correction - crt mode for the dtp-94 is for direct view and non-directview.
lcd is for, well lcd ;-)

jeff


well the good thing is - Baffle on and baffle off is a NON ISSUE

LCD also for DLP

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post #729 of 3254 Old 12-14-2006, 05:10 PM
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[quote=nate358]Richlo... for some reason when I download your zip file it won't open up in HCFR

Save it to DESKTOP and open from there

.

I need some help figuring a few things out. 1)On the gray scale window In the lower right corner, there is a drop down that lists: near black, near white, and different Saturation color scales. What are these used for and what patterns do they use for reading?

These patterns are to give you far more advance readings in the CIE diagram..and really I believe - less important (to me at least)

2)On the "display" window there is: Sensor, RGB, XYZ, xyz, and xyY. What do these do? And which one should be selected? I noticed that after I took grey scale readings and switched which one was selected... the numbers in the gray scale window changed.

Sensore is only good for HCFR Sensor - no use at all - but you can see its just a measure of return gross amount

XYZ, xyz, xyY are other methods of measure, best to use xyz as this will give you the aid to hit .313 and .329

3) when I select the realtime capture, what patterns should I generate to when working on getting my colors to match up to the CIE Diagram?

This is used to test over several times an IRE, so if your struggling on the lowend, use this to repeat readings of that IRE, then you may EDIT above that information, please note that you must be in xyY mode and click EDIT measure above, then you can switch back to xyz mode and it will keep that information.


Anyone feel free to let me know if I am incorrect in understanding these - as I am very very new also in calibrating but do much reading as possible..

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post #730 of 3254 Old 12-14-2006, 05:37 PM
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I tried the zip file again... and it says that HCFR encounterd a problem and needs to close.

and when you say .313 and .329...... what do those represent? ok where do I need to go read at? haha looks like I'm lost big time. All I know is I want all my colors to match up on the CIE Diagram, gamma at 2.2, and gray scale at D65.
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post #731 of 3254 Old 12-14-2006, 05:48 PM
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hi nate,
which oppo? 970HD?

to read up on color coordinates (.313, .329) to go :
http://www.videoessentials.com/resources.php

jeff
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post #732 of 3254 Old 12-14-2006, 05:52 PM
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Okay for color and tint, what you want to do is read your primaries 1st, then adjust COLOR in your user menu until you hit Red by the RED X, Blue by the Blue X, and Green by the Green X in the CIE DIagram (or as close as you can get with in the triangle points). If you want, run them to either extreme to see how it actually works, then when you get that as close as possible, run your Secondary colors (tint) and then see where those are and adjust to get to those color points. Once your done there, then move on to your greyscale - assuming that you have already set contrast and brighness already (which is very important).

x=.313 y=.329, these are the coordinated for D65, which will get your greyscale to 6500K or close too..Concentrate first on the HighEnd and then work on the lowEnd (use 30IRE and 80IRE as your MAIN areas of concern)..Do not try to adjust to 6500K -adjust looking at the coordinates as there are many ways to hit 6500K but only one way to get to D65 (or rather .313 .329)

You should be able to go back some pages and see some of my other files I have posted.

so now you know D65= .313 329 coordinates

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post #733 of 3254 Old 12-14-2006, 05:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by greeno View Post

hi nate,
which oppo? 970HD?

jeff

no I have the Oppo 971H
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post #734 of 3254 Old 12-14-2006, 06:06 PM
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Nate I have the 971 also..

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post #735 of 3254 Old 12-14-2006, 06:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by richlo View Post

Okay for color and tint, what you want to do is read your primaries 1st, then adjust COLOR in your user menu until you hit Red by the RED X, Blue by the Blue X, and Green by the Green X in the CIE DIagram (or as close as you can get with in the triangle points). If you want, run them to either extreme to see how it actually works, then when you get that as close as possible, run your Secondary colors (tint) and then see where those are and adjust to get to those color points. Once your done there, then move on to your greyscale - assuming that you have already set contrast and brighness already (which is very important).

Ok I've got that... but it's the process that I'm not sure of.

So like Red, do I throw up the RED 100% pattern from Getgray and then check on the CIE where it hits, then move the Red slider bar on my projector menu fully one way, then read the RED pattern from getgray and continue this process until it hits the mark and for each color. And can I use the continuous read function so I can see real time adjustments. Or do I just send up a white image and move the Red and Blue sliders until all the corresponding colors hit the CIE diagram. I do not have a Color or tint just RED and Blue sliders. I could put up all my controls in the user menu and service menu if you want.
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post #736 of 3254 Old 12-14-2006, 06:12 PM
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OPPO971H DVI>HDMI RPCRT

Ok, reason why I need to use HDTV reference is because my RPCRT has undefeatable upscaling no matter what input or resolution I feed it and so it seems to transform color space. I ran a test on a regular direct CRT and using NTSC of course worked best, so I have no doubt that's what's happening.

*I found absolutely no difference between 0-255 and 16-235 on any measures performed.
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post #737 of 3254 Old 12-14-2006, 06:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HDholic View Post

Ok, reason why I need to use HDTV reference is because my RPCRT has undefeatable upscaling no matter what input or resolution I feed it and so it seems to transform color space. I ran a test on a regular direct CRT and using NTSC of course worked best, so I have no doubt that's what's happening.

*I found absolutely no difference between 0-255 and 16-235 on any measures performed.

That is what's happening with mine also.
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post #738 of 3254 Old 12-14-2006, 06:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nate358 View Post

Ok I've got that... but it's the process that I'm not sure of.

So like Red, do I throw up the RED 100% pattern from Getgray and then check on the CIE where it hits, then move the Red slider bar on my projector menu fully one way, then read the RED pattern from getgray and continue this process until it hits the mark and for each color. And can I use the continuous read function so I can see real time adjustments. Or do I just send up a white image and move the Red and Blue sliders until all the corresponding colors hit the CIE diagram. I do not have a Color or tint just RED and Blue sliders. I could put up all my controls in the user menu and service menu if you want.

Since you have an Oppo, the best thing you should do is burn the PAL disk from HCFR, it has basically all the patterns you will need for their software without the need of worrying.

I believe the pattern to be used is actually 75% and not 100% - someone help me here as I think this question was asked earlier today..

Since I have never used the Continuous reading - I really have nothing to contribute other than an understanding of it. For it though I would guess you need to know what your coordinates are for each individual color that you need to hit, and that is easy, go to the cie diagram, and put your mouse over each point of the triangle and view what those are for the given color and tint

btw..you should have Saturation (color) in the Oppo 971 not Tint (unfortunately)


BTW - Folk I apologize for any bad interpretation on how this all works - and I am sure that as we go along there wil be some adjustments to my interpretation and someone will more knowledge on calibration HOW TO..

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post #739 of 3254 Old 12-14-2006, 06:24 PM
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The global color and tint funtion together as one. The CIE chart is in reality a 3D space with a virtical plane. The color extremes, with no color, the RGB points fall near the central reference, but if you wind color fully up they try to over saturate, where inside the triangle is considered understaurated and outside the line oversaturated. Tint screws the RGB values around the center reference line. They kinda arc in a "U" shape. If you take 5 measures of RGB with the tint adjusted from the fully - to the fully + you will under stand this.
Brightness and contrast effect this chart a little aswell, as does individual RGB brightness and contrast.

The biggest issue I am seeing is clipping of infomation. This tends to happen when the contrast or gamma is too high the RGB values may run outa puff at 90% luminance , sometimes just one channel may be clipping.
I have found an indicator is the luminance chart with RGB turned on. You see clipping at the top of the curve if you see a color take a sharp kink towards white.
In the RGB historygram that same color may dip at the end as it runs outa puff to keep the delta e tracking.

Those 5 point near black and near white are experimental.
But I have found them useful. Near black has allowed me to set brightness by taking measures and adjusting the brightness up and down, with the help of my light boosting funnel. The same with contrast the white values allowed me to set the upper end clipping point.

Again its a case of taking some measures, adjust something and see the difference.

There is one key thing, if you aren't sure what is going to happen only adjust one thing at a time, if you move 2 things you a. don't know which one did the effect and b. might find they fight each other.

With experience you can probably guesstimate 2 adjustments at once.

just remember if it all goes pear shaped you always have the default points to start again. I have done this several times just to see if I end up at the same points on a following calibration.

Oh the realtime measurement thing I use with a grey scale like 10IRE and 90IRE where I use 10 to set brightness of each RGB channel and 90 to set contrast. The advantage with this is you can see realtime measures without endlass grey scale runs. Gets you in the ball park quickly before doing a grey scale run.

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post #740 of 3254 Old 12-14-2006, 06:31 PM
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Smokey Joe

Can you take a look at my file..I think you hit a point with a KINK on my Gamma tracking..Is there any advice on what I need to do to eliminate this. I have posted my settings on their also
The1st three are theCONTRAST settings for RGB and then the next three are the Brightness settings for RGB..and I am afraid that I might be clipping Red, but otherwise, everything else seems to look quite okay to me..

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post #741 of 3254 Old 12-14-2006, 06:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by richlo View Post

Since you have an Oppo, the best thing you should do is burn the PAL disk from HCFR, it has basically all the patterns you will need for their software without the need of worrying.

I've thought about doing this, but if I calibrate to PAL won't that be wrong since I don't watch anything in PAL. Plus I don't have a DVD Burner! The only reason I was thinking about using it was to see what the patterns looked like.

Quote:
Originally Posted by richlo View Post

Since I have never used the Continuous reading - I really have nothing to contribute other than an understanding of it. For it though I would guess you need to know what your coordinates are for each individual color that you need to hit, and that is easy, go to the cie diagram, and put your mouse over each point of the triangle and view what those are for the given color and tint

So your saying you read, adjust, read, adjust, read, adjust, read, adjust

Quote:
Originally Posted by richlo View Post

btw..you should have Saturation (color) in the Oppo 971 not Tint (unfortunately)

But my DVD player is fine... It's my projector that isn't. I could calibrate my projector to HDTV then calibrate the DVD player back to NTSC... if that makes sense?
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post #742 of 3254 Old 12-14-2006, 06:50 PM
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Well they projector and the DVD player go hand in hand, so if you dont have COLOR adjustments on your projetor, then you use the DVD player that it is hooked up to.

As for as read, adjust, read adjust..I think the continuous reading is the EASY way of my understanding, instead of read, run...that is what I do and probably NO MORE

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post #743 of 3254 Old 12-14-2006, 07:08 PM
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My projector does have color adjustments it's just called Red adjustment and Blue adjustment. Heres what I have to work with:
User Menu
Contrast
Bright
Red
Blue
Color Temp
Gamma adjust

the following are all in the Service menu
DTV menu

Contrast:
Tint:
Color:
Sharpness:
Bright:
R-Bright:
G-Bright:
B-Bright:
R-Contrast:
G-Contrast:
B-contrast:

DVD menu

Contrast:
Tint:
Color:
Sharpness:
CTI-level:
LTI-level:
CB-Offset:
CR-Offset:
Bright:
B-DRIVE:
R-DRIVE:

VIDEO menu

Contrast:
N-Tint:
P-Tint:
S-Tint:
N-Color:
P-Color:
S-Color:
Sharpness:
CTI-level:
LTI-level:
CB-Offset:
CR-Offset:
Bright:
B-DRIVE:
R-DRIVE:

ADmenu

R-Bright:
G-Bright:
B-Bright:
R-Contrast:
G-Contrast:
B-contrast:

DLP menu

Index Delay:
R-Bright:
G-Bright:
B-Bright:
R-Contrast:
G-Contrast:
B-contrast:

VIDEO1 menu

N-Contrast:
P-Contrast:
S-Contrast:
Color:
NT3.58:
NT4.43:
SECAM Delay:
Sharpness2:

PIXEL menu

R-Gain:
G-Gain:
B-Gain:

Pedestal menu

R-Bright:
G-Bright:
B-Bright:
R-Contrast:
G-Contrast:
B-contrast:

OPTION menu

PW365 Gamma:
DLP Gamma:
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post #744 of 3254 Old 12-14-2006, 07:30 PM
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nate-

Continuous measures
is a nonstop reading of whatever IRE is displayed on screen. The way to use it is for example: put up 20IRE or 20% if using GetGrey on your screen. On combined histogram window, look at RGB Levels, if out of calibration you should see red, green and blue lines. Adjust your R-Bright, G-Bright and B-Bright until they converge onto a single line. Keep an eye on the color temp, you want it at 6500K, which you can see at the bottom of the same window. Then put up 80 or 90IRE/% and repeat, this time adjusting RGB-Contrast. Once done hit Stop.

You cannot adjust Primary/Secondary colors with this method. Are all those menus per input?
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post #745 of 3254 Old 12-14-2006, 07:30 PM
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guys with 971's, how are you connecting to the display? if DVI, the oppo should use the SD color space, if HDMI, they oppo should use SD color space. are you getting SD colorspace because you're upconverting via component? I didn't know there was a hacked firmware for the 971 to upconvert via component.

jeff
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post #746 of 3254 Old 12-14-2006, 07:38 PM
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Richlo, looking at your run 7 , run10 crashes my HFCR software?

Look at the lumenance chart and switch to log mode, note the red channel dipping badly to the floor. One might think that you need more contrast, but no, turn the down the contrast of the red channel by a few clicks, you might find that fixes this dipping/clipping and raises the red inline with the blue and green channels. If the overall delta e heads west when you knock down red contrast you might need to raise red brightness to compensate.
If that doesnt work, try then dropping both blue and green brightness to align with red.

Remember that you are mixing color in space with no particular right or wrong starting point, whilst aiming at the D65 reference.

Couple other indicators I have been noticing is when you run the IRE grey scale, when you go from 00IRE to 10IRE and 90IRE to 100IRE you should see a clear step in scale. If the step appears non distinct, at the bottom the brightness is wrong and at the top the contrast is off.

Again the 1% near black and near white grey scale should have small visual steps. Play with you PC monitor and with the 95 to 100 near white and turn down contrast untill you see the steps. Better to do this in the dark to remove ambient light.
We tend to set brightness to low and contrast to high.

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post #747 of 3254 Old 12-14-2006, 07:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by greeno View Post

guys with 971's, how are you connecting to the display? if DVI, the oppo should use the SD color space, if HDMI, they oppo should use SD color space. are you getting SD colorspace because you're upconverting via component? I didn't know there was a hacked firmware for the 971 to upconvert via component.

see my post here
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post #748 of 3254 Old 12-14-2006, 07:47 PM
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SmokeyJ -

I think that crashing of file 10 is because I have a BETA software update - it might be crashing earlier versions??? hmmm.

Rich L

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post #749 of 3254 Old 12-14-2006, 07:49 PM
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sorry hdholic... I saw your post. Then your display is doing something really odd. DVI is already RGB meaning the colorspace is already taken into account. you set must be reconverting it internally to something else, then back incorrectly. Also,HDMI, by spec. should have the colorspace info "clues" included so that the set can convert to RGB using the correct colorspace. I would complain very louding about this as it is a real bug. What type of set do you have?

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post #750 of 3254 Old 12-14-2006, 07:50 PM
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nate, are you also using a dvi to hdmi connector? the 981 is supposed to do the right thing via hdmi. I wonder if you set(s) would screw that up too.

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