Color HCFR Calibration Discussion (Post your calibration files here) - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 3872 Old 01-13-2007, 04:28 PM - Thread Starter
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As an off-shoot to this thread

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=737550

let's start a new one dealing with actual ColorHCFR calibration issues and discussion. Please post your calibratiion files in this thread to get help or comments from others. The other thread will stay focused on software related issues, revisions and functionality questions.

Try to remember and post your display and set up method so people can compare results on similar setups.
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post #2 of 3872 Old 01-13-2007, 04:30 PM - Thread Starter
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I'll start things off. Here is my original file from day 1 when I started using this great free software. The second file that says final is where I am at to today. I've come along way, but nothing is ever final, right?

This is on a Sony KP-57WS10 rear-projection CRT, using Oppo 970 DVD player and GetGray DVD for test patterns.
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post #3 of 3872 Old 01-13-2007, 04:58 PM - Thread Starter
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I've got a question a the CIE triangle and calibration. From what I've gathered it sounds as though very view displays have any settings to actually change the RGB points. But for the ones that do, what may they be called? For me it would be a service menu item on my Sony KP-57WS510, so what key words may I look for? And I if I understand correctly, the color setting in my user menu will affect the location of RGB on the triangle but this is not really the proper way to move these points.
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post #4 of 3872 Old 01-13-2007, 05:23 PM
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can you delete your post on the other tread, I'm trying to delete the entire thread.
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post #5 of 3872 Old 01-13-2007, 05:43 PM
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Hey guys, take a look at my first run & if anyone has any ideas on how to tame my over-saturated color decoder that would be great!!!

Thanks guys!
Carmine.

 

Sony KDF-55XS955 Post-Calibration.zip 4.1728515625k . file
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post #6 of 3872 Old 01-13-2007, 05:51 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HDholic View Post

can you delete your post on the other tread, I'm trying to delete the entire thread.

Done.
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post #7 of 3872 Old 01-13-2007, 06:54 PM
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OK, here's mine.

I'm completely happy with the greyscale and the CIE chart for the most part.

My plasma lets me move the locations of the primaries and I have moved green as much as possible to get it to where it is now.

Next step is to get the red primary moved closer to it's proper location.

I'm also need to try and figure out my gamma at some point.

EDIT: This is for an NEC 61XR4 plasma.

 

After.zip 2.20703125k . file
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post #8 of 3872 Old 01-13-2007, 07:00 PM
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Here is mine..Mits 3000U

Dont forget to put your make and Model guys..so that people know exactly which set your calibrating here..

 

calibration17_mitsDTP94.zip 1.04296875k . file

Rich L

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post #9 of 3872 Old 01-13-2007, 07:14 PM
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I have a mitsubishi 57732.

I posted my settings on the other thread before I saw that this was started. I am new to this, so this was my first attempt. Any thoughts on my greyscale measurements?

I am still confused on how to proceed with the primary and secondary color calibrations. Do I adjust the red, green, and blue within the mitsubishi's perfect color setup and then re-measure?

 

greyscale.zip 0.880859375k . file
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post #10 of 3872 Old 01-14-2007, 07:07 AM
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How you adjust your primaries/secondaries will depend on the user interface of your display.

On my plasma it's a very simple and intuitive interface. For each primary you can "move" it's location towards it's two closest secondaries on a slider. This effectively lowers the point of the triangle.

For the secondaries, you can move the slider towards one of the two primaries, essentially moving it along the line of the triangle.
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post #11 of 3872 Old 01-14-2007, 07:15 AM
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OK, so I futzed around trying to fix my gamma problem and came up with a "solution". I managed to get it to track exactly to the 2.2 curve, along with a very good greyscale, by lowering the contrast a lot. And I mean a lot. It was so low that the PQ was simply unacceptable.

I'll probably do some searching to see if there is any way to fix this on a plasma or whether it's simply something that needs to be lived with.

So, back up when the contrast to an acceptable level and some more fine tuning of greyscale and colour. I think I'm done now because the family unit doesn't want me monopolizing the TV anymore.

Results attached. PQ is fantastic.

 

Final.zip 0.9501953125k . file
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post #12 of 3872 Old 01-14-2007, 07:24 AM
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JV-

What version of ColorHCFR are you using?? because your gamma is only 1.21..and it looks to be be in extremely (sorry I dont mean to offend) bad shape. What kind of options do you have for GAMMA settings on your set? and what set are you using..

Rich L

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post #13 of 3872 Old 01-14-2007, 07:38 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jvincent View Post

How you adjust your primaries/secondaries will depend on the user interface of your display.

On my plasma it's a very simple and intuitive interface. For each primary you can "move" it's location towards it's two closest secondaries on a slider. This effectively lowers the point of the triangle.

For the secondaries, you can move the slider towards one of the two primaries, essentially moving it along the line of the triangle.

What model plasma do you have? I may be in the market for one soon and having the ability to adjust the primaries would be nice to have.
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post #14 of 3872 Old 01-14-2007, 09:16 AM
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Answering two posts at once....

richlo, yes, I am using 1.21. After doing some research it appears that plasmas generally work better when you have their gamma set to it's highest value. Mine supports a range from 2.1 to 2.4 and I did my calibrations at 2.2.

Even with the wacky gamme, the picture looks pretty good. As I mentioned earlier when I got my gamma match dead on contrast was so low that it was unwatchable. I've just turned up the gamma on the set to 2.4 and adjusted brightness and contrast again (eyeball) and it looks pretty good. I'll probably do some more measurements / tweaking today. So much for labelling the run "final".

primetimeguy, I have an NEC 61XR4. It's a really, really nice set. NEC and Pioneer share the panel manufacturing (after exchanging some Yen a couple years ago) and the NEC line is for all intents and purposes equivalent to the older Elites from Pioneer.

There's a long thread in the the plasma forum on them.
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post #15 of 3872 Old 01-14-2007, 09:54 AM
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[quote=jvincent]Answering two posts at once....

richlo, yes, I am using 1.21. After doing some research it appears that plasmas generally work better when you have their gamma set to it's highest value. Mine supports a range from 2.1 to 2.4 and I did my calibrations at 2.2.

Even with the wacky gamme, the picture looks pretty good. As I mentioned earlier when I got my gamma match dead on contrast was so low that it was unwatchable. I've just turned up the gamma on the set to 2.4 and adjusted brightness and contrast again (eyeball) and it looks pretty good. I'll probably do some more measurements / tweaking today. So much for labelling the run "final".

[/QUOTE
WHen I opened your file your gamma show its at 1.21 (and thats a loose average) using Camera Gamma, so even lower using the 2nd option..so Im just confused at you stating 2.2.

in fact, if you look at your gamma AVG, Blue line, it looks like a Computer gamma..a straight line from one corner to the other, instead of a curve gamma

Everything else looks phenomenal..

Rich L

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post #16 of 3872 Old 01-14-2007, 09:58 AM
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The 2.2 was the setting on the plasma. Hopefully I'll be able to fix it up today.
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post #17 of 3872 Old 01-14-2007, 10:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jvincent View Post

The 2.2 was the setting on the plasma. Hopefully I'll be able to fix it up today.


let me know...Ive never calibrated a LCD or a PLASMA for that matter...

Rich L

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post #18 of 3872 Old 01-14-2007, 11:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jvincent View Post

How you adjust your primaries/secondaries will depend on the user interface of your display.

On my plasma it's a very simple and intuitive interface. For each primary you can "move" it's location towards it's two closest secondaries on a slider. This effectively lowers the point of the triangle.

For the secondaries, you can move the slider towards one of the two primaries, essentially moving it along the line of the triangle.

The mitsubishi's perfect color setup allows you to change the colors using values 0 - 63. I have a few more questions.

Do I first adjust the primary values and then take a measurements using hcfr?
I am using getgray's dvd, when taking measurments, I set the RGB levels to 0-255, and then used the 75% color windows on the dvd. Is that right?

Thanks for all of the information.
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post #19 of 3872 Old 01-14-2007, 11:11 AM - Thread Starter
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I'm pretty sure you should be using 16-235 for levels since those are the video levels.
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post #20 of 3872 Old 01-14-2007, 11:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by richlo
let me know...Ive never calibrated a LCD or a PLASMA for that matter...
OK, much better now.

Set the plasma gamma to 2.4 and re-adjusted everything.

Now showing 2.1 on the calculated gamma. Solid greyscale and CIE chart as before.

The REALLY final configuration now attached.

 

Final_final.zip 0.9716796875k . file
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post #21 of 3872 Old 01-14-2007, 11:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by primetimeguy View Post

I'm pretty sure you should be using 16-235 for levels since those are the video levels.

I read on home theatre shack's website that for primary and secondary color measurements you should use 0 - 255.

I can't post the link since this is only my 3rd post on this forum (need 5 post). The instructions say:

"If you can adjust your primary colors (not the same RGB gain, offset, color temp and color gamma controls that only adjust grayscale, but your color and tint that control your color matrix's saturation and tint), switch to 0-255 RGB Levels in Preferenceseferences and click the measure buttons in the Primary and Secondary tables. Follow the on-screen instructions to navigate to 75% color windows of RGB (primaries) and YCM (secondaries)."

thanks!
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post #22 of 3872 Old 01-14-2007, 11:30 AM
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Also, if you are using 75% color patterns, you have to set that up in C.HCFR. Go to Sensor>Configure, Calibration tab and type 75 for IRE level Images.
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post #23 of 3872 Old 01-14-2007, 11:30 AM - Thread Starter
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There was similar discussion in the original HCFR thread about this and I previoulsy used 0-255 for color and 16-235 for gray scale as well. I believe it was richlo who said this was due to a problem in an earlier release of the software and the correct way is now 16-235 for everything. We'll have to wait for others to chime in. If you read through the beginning of the manual on GetGray it says it uses 16-235.
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post #24 of 3872 Old 01-14-2007, 11:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HDholic View Post

Also, if you are using 75% color patterns, you have to set that up in C.HCFR. Go to Sensor>Configure, Calibration tab and type 75 for IRE level Images.

Sorry if this has been asked and answered on the other thread. Are the Avia patterns 75% or 100%?

Steve
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post #25 of 3872 Old 01-14-2007, 11:39 AM
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jvincent-

Your gamma still needs tweaking. As you can see you have an "S" like curve. Switch to Log. mode and 10-70IRE is being crushed and above that is clipping. Also, your Cyan should be on the white line not lonely out there. Try adjusting its saturation to bring it in.
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post #26 of 3872 Old 01-14-2007, 11:47 AM
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ok, I will set to 16-235 and change the ire level to 75% and then try again. I will post the results.
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post #27 of 3872 Old 01-14-2007, 11:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HDholic View Post

jvincent-

Your gamma still needs tweaking. As you can see you have an "S" like curve. Switch to Log. mode and 10-70IRE is being crushed and above that is clipping. Also, your Cyan should be on the white line not lonely out there. Try adjusting its saturation to bring it in.

Yep, I know. Unfortunately to get it dead on I will probably end up having an unacceptably low light output, so I will probably end up having to live with it as is. At least for now anyway.

On the CYAN front I don't have a way to pull it in with the controls available on my plasma. I can only move the points along the lines of the triangle.
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post #28 of 3872 Old 01-14-2007, 12:33 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HDholic View Post

Also, if you are using 75% color patterns, you have to set that up in C.HCFR. Go to Sensor>Configure, Calibration tab and type 75 for IRE level Images.


I thought the calibration tab only applied to the HCFR sensor and therefore never I looked at it. This is the first I have heard of changing this value. Can anyone else confirm this needs to be done because my is at 100 and never been changed but I've been using 75% windows.
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post #29 of 3872 Old 01-14-2007, 12:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by primetimeguy View Post

There was similar discussion in the original HCFR thread about this and I previoulsy used 0-255 for color and 16-235 for gray scale as well. I believe it was richlo who said this was due to a problem in an earlier release of the software and the correct way is now 16-235 for everything. We'll have to wait for others to chime in. If you read through the beginning of the manual on GetGray it says it uses 16-235.


this was my mistake as the issue was that on a previous version 0-255 ask for the primaries for readings and the 16-235 left that out..that was fixed later..there is NO diff when reading your primaries with 0-255 and 16-235, so leave it at the default of 16-235

Rich L

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post #30 of 3872 Old 01-14-2007, 01:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by richlo View Post

there is NO diff when reading your primaries with 0-255 and 16-235, so leave it at the default of 16-235

Well there is no differences in reading whatsoever... If you use our DVD or any others...

But, there is one difference if you use the build-in generator (aka "View Images") as then they are generated depending on this setting.

--Patrice

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