Pioneer 64" Elite 710 - Next stop The Dump? - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 24 Old 04-10-2007, 09:21 PM - Thread Starter
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I have a Pioneer 64" Elite Pro 710 HD that I bought soon after it came out - which means I paid a rediculous amount of money for it compared to what's available today It's served me well for many years (could it be 6 years?) but recently it's started flashing. Sometimes frequently, sometimes not so much, but consistently enough now that it's basically unwatchable. The shame of it is that, at least to my eye, it still looks great - holds it's own against most of the similarly sized rear-projectors I see at the local big box mart - when it's not flashing, that is

All inputs, DirecTV box or DVD, right in or through the Denon A/V receiver, the flashing persists. It's clearly some component that is either failing or shorting inside the TV. (It also does it when the sound is off and there are no vibrations present.) The effect is as if someone took a flash picture in the material I'm watching.

Is it time to haul it down to the land-fill, or is there a way to get this thing fixed?
Oh, yea - I live in Hawaii (Big Island)
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post #2 of 24 Old 04-10-2007, 09:27 PM
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There are a few threads here about Elite series CRT's flashing due to some cold-solder joints on (I think) the power supply board. It CAN be repaired, and I've read that Pioneer will replace the board under parts warranty--provided their chosen technician installs it. Or you can fix it yourself (if you're handy with a soldering iron), or you can ship it off to Mr Bob, and he can repair it for you. Do a search here for Elite flashing problems (or something like that--I suck at searches) and you should be able to find more info.
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post #3 of 24 Old 04-12-2007, 05:56 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks for the tip. There is a thread about this issue here:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=402397

31 pages worth! Apparently I'm far from alone on this one

From the thread it's pretty clear that the last thing I'd want to do is call Pioneer

I think I'll break out the old Weller and take a crack at it. If I completely botch it I can ship it off to Mr Bob and he should be able to fix or replace it for me.

Thanks again...
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post #4 of 24 Old 04-12-2007, 06:49 PM
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My pleasure. I have a 510, bought new in 2000. So far, I've had no problem with it, and Mr Bob gave it it's second calibration recently. I'm very happy with this set, and see no need to upgrade or replace it as long as it keeps putting up such a GREAT picture. I'm really NOT looking forward to having to replace it with some sort of microdisplay, as none I've seen yet can hold a candle to this CRT 'dinosaur'
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post #5 of 24 Old 04-13-2007, 07:21 PM
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Vinnie,
I had the same flashing problem on my 510, followed the "flashing" thread and resodered a lot of the solder joints on the power board. It wasn't hard to do if you have ever used a sodering iron. I did this close to a year ago and haven't had flashing issues since. Caution, I did it twice because I didn't do enough of the solder joints the first time.
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post #6 of 24 Old 04-14-2007, 11:08 AM
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I have a 620, and I think it's fantastic. I'm also using a great scaler with it, and I can't see upgrading to anything but a front projector (57 inches is too small -- 100+ inches is where I'm going next).

Bob
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post #7 of 24 Old 04-24-2007, 04:41 PM - Thread Starter
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Pioneer Elite pro-510/610/710HD - Flashing Problem solved

I opted to get a new power distribution board direct from Pioneer.
The part (in my case) was "AWV1795 POWER SUPPLY ASSY"
I've been running it more than usual for a couple days now and it's
definitely fixed.

With their "rebuildable board" return policy, the final cost came to a little
more than a hundred more than paying to have the board resoldered.
Swapping the board requires removing 3 screws and about 10 plugs
which are easy to keep track of. This was the best solution for me, YMMV.

My recommendation for people with this problem:
- If you feel up to doing the resoldering yourself, go for it (cost is free)
- If you'd prefer to have someone else do it - contact Mr. Bob (cost is reasonable)
- If you feel up to replacing the board and you have the dough, do what I did.

If you're feeling ripped off by Pioneer (and there are quite a few - see the
thread referenced above) you can vow publicly never to buy anything from
Pioneer again, if it makes you feel better

Good luck!
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post #8 of 24 Old 03-30-2008, 01:12 PM
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This is a way off topic but I need to know.
I just got a FREE Elite610 and it works great so far. The only thing is that I only have SD Sat. which looks good but I want to hookup my PC to the TV to watch the HD movies from the HDD and Blu-ray player.
I think I know what I'm doing but a friend that had the same TV said you can fry it if you don't set it up right. So if anyone can give me any tips it may help to not fry the TV.
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post #9 of 24 Old 03-30-2008, 01:29 PM
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unwiredone:
I believe that you must have a video card that can output HDTV via component or HDMI. If you try to use the VGA output, you will have problems. My NVIDIA 8800GT's come with a "dongle" to convert an S-type multipin connector to component for HDTV connection.
NEVER hook up a PC's VGA output directly to the PRO series CRTs!
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post #10 of 24 Old 03-30-2008, 02:48 PM
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The video card is an ATI x1900xt with the component out cables. It also has the settings to run at 1080i @ 30hz or 60hz. This is the way I was going to connect to the TV.
I did see the the manual said to never connect a PC to the RGBHV input.
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post #11 of 24 Old 03-31-2008, 09:18 PM
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Well it works. And boy does it look good.
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post #12 of 24 Old 04-02-2008, 11:44 AM
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Hi unwiredone, where did you get your free Pro610 from? I just sent mine out the door via CC in exchange for a Sony KDS-60A3000. Mine had the board done and both IC changed about 2 years ago but starting to blow fuzes and flash. So sad to see it go but the new Sony is great.
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post #13 of 24 Old 05-05-2008, 11:12 AM
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i love my pro720 , my only complain is that i am starting to get terrible overscan when i play my 360 games. is there a way to fix the overscan. i called isf calibrator here in my area and he refused to do it because its a rptv and he says that the calibration wont last. i also tried to get a hold of mr bob via email but still no response

besides that i still love my tv and it looks great

pioneer elite pro720 , psb image 9c center, 6t towers, 1b rears and velodyne ct-12 sub, pioneer vsx-d912k receiver, xbox 360 and HDDVD addon,
dishnetwork hd dvr
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post #14 of 24 Old 10-29-2008, 04:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by polku View Post

Hi unwiredone, where did you get your free Pro610 from? I just sent mine out the door via CC in exchange for a Sony KDS-60A3000. Mine had the board done and both IC changed about 2 years ago but starting to blow fuzes and flash. So sad to see it go but the new Sony is great.

I was doing some side work for an AV company and a man upgraded so they asked me to come get it. I was wrong about the model it's a Pioneer Elite Pro-710HD 64". It looks great on SD and HD and I will be sorry to see it go because SD looks really bad on most all plasma's and lcd's.

The only thing I hate about the tv is the screen modes. If you use component the only option is FULL, which cuts off the top of the menu on my Popcorn Hour Mod. The alphabetical selections run across the top of the menu so it makes searching for the movie you want a little less easier. LOL You can see the menu here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=omPccIj3alc
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post #15 of 24 Old 10-30-2008, 12:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vinnie View Post

Pioneer Elite pro-510/610/710HD - Flashing Problem solved

I opted to get a new power distribution board direct from Pioneer.
The part (in my case) was "AWV1795 POWER SUPPLY ASSY"
I've been running it more than usual for a couple days now and it's
definitely fixed.

With their "rebuildable board" return policy, the final cost came to a little
more than a hundred more than paying to have the board resoldered.
Swapping the board requires removing 3 screws and about 10 plugs
which are easy to keep track of. This was the best solution for me, YMMV.

My recommendation for people with this problem:
- If you feel up to doing the resoldering yourself, go for it (cost is free)
- If you'd prefer to have someone else do it - contact Mr. Bob (cost is reasonable)
- If you feel up to replacing the board and you have the dough, do what I did.

If you're feeling ripped off by Pioneer (and there are quite a few - see the
thread referenced above) you can vow publicly never to buy anything from
Pioneer again, if it makes you feel better

Good luck!

I do not recommend fixing Pioneers this way. Chances are that the new board has the same problem as the original. Unless they resoldered all the connections before sending it out, which is not typical. I have had to resolder more Pioneer replacement boards than I can count. Before buying a replacement board from them I would just take it to a shop to have the joints reworked.

Yes, calibration is important...every user should be calibrated.

Need electronics repair? A great place to start looking for a shop in your area: http://www.tvrepairpros.com/
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post #16 of 24 Old 11-07-2008, 07:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by unwiredone View Post

The only thing I hate about the tv is the screen modes. If you use component the only option is FULL, which cuts off the top of the menu on my Popcorn Hour Mod. The alphabetical selections run across the top of the menu so it makes searching for the movie you want a little less easier. LOL You can see the menu here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=omPccIj3alc

Hey, I've got a 720, and the overscan (cutting off edges of the screen) is ridiculous on this, and the other PRO_XXXHD sets. You can redo the geometry in the service menu to remove most of the overscan, but the service menu is far from friendly. If you're technologically inclined, I can send you the adjustment manual for the 520/620 series, which has the same service menu layout as the 720s. Be warned that redoing the geometry is difficult, *_extremely_* time consuming, and has to be done 3 times (once for each color).
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post #17 of 24 Old 03-10-2010, 10:52 AM
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"Hey, I've got a 720, and the overscan (cutting off edges of the screen) is ridiculous on this, and the other PRO_XXXHD sets. You can redo the geometry in the service menu to remove most of the overscan, but the service menu is far from friendly. If you're technologically inclined, I can send you the adjustment manual for the 520/620 series, which has the same service menu layout as the 720s. Be warned that redoing the geometry is difficult, *_extremely_* time consuming, and has to be done 3 times (once for each color)."

@kenleekenlle
If you still have it, can you send me a copy of the adjustment manual?
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post #18 of 24 Old 03-16-2010, 01:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kenleekenlee View Post

Hey, I've got a 720, and the overscan (cutting off edges of the screen) is ridiculous on this, and the other PRO_XXXHD sets. You can redo the geometry in the service menu to remove most of the overscan, but the service menu is far from friendly. If you're technologically inclined, I can send you the adjustment manual for the 520/620 series, which has the same service menu layout as the 720s. Be warned that redoing the geometry is difficult, *_extremely_* time consuming, and has to be done 3 times (once for each color).

Me too
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post #19 of 24 Old 05-02-2011, 06:31 PM
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I also would appreciate a copy very much.
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post #20 of 24 Old 06-12-2011, 11:19 AM
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Overscan can be cured! I have 2 ways of doing it that are available in every calibration I perform. It is one of the most highly sought after modifications I do, and I have been doing it on these and other big screens for well over 10 years.

So can the intermittent problems caused by the way-too-thin soldering job done on the PS board when these units were produced, inevitably resulting in the reported problems later, years down the line.

I have been actively involved in the thread mentioned earlier for 5 years now, and there's no stopping that problem from continuing to occur, one set after another. But there are cost-effective remedies for saving your set, and after my way of doing it has been applied, there are no worries again, from then on. Just send me the PS board and I'll make sure your set has kept on humming, intermittent-free and completely stable, years from now. When I resolder one of these boards, you get my lifetime warranty on my work.

Len - lcaillo - is right, the replacement boards from Pioneer are no better than the originals. But buying a new one is not the way to go, and neither is the typical local repair person. Len I trust completely, and a few other service repair techs I can count on one hand, but 99% of most other local repair people will simply fix what's wrong now, justifiably collect your money because the set is working again, and leave the rest to chance. Later a new set of cold solder joints will fail, and not only will you be back where you started but you may then have damage happen to your set from lightning bolts being sent down into it from those cold solder joints that are not bad now but will go bad later. The earlier ones that go are innocuous, they are just a shot across the bow. The later ones are the ones that will take your set down, and hard. Not heeding that warning shot - the intermittencies - can cost you dearly.

I future proof your PS board against those now-good cold solder joints going bad later, and I lifetime warranty that work.

Another reason to not get a replacement PS board is that your entire set was set up on that original PS board. They are not all identical to each other in the voltages and current levels they put out to the rest of your set, far from it. So any precision you currently have on your set from operating on the original board will immediately become suspect upon the installation of any other board in there but the one it came with.

Send me your board and I'll keep your set going for you. Turn me loose on your set and I'll make it look young again. Give me free reign and you'll have a dazzling picture, far better than anything you've ever seen from your set before.

If you want proof, please go to page 45 of the thread mentioned earlier -

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...402397&page=45

Scroll down till you see the pretty pictures, and you'll see what your set is actually capable of.

Then go to the last page and see why your set was malfunctioning the first place! Again, scroll down until you see the pretty pictures of the cold solder joints causing all these problems.

Luckily the PS board is the only one in the unit that suffers from this issue, meaning your set can be corrected permanently.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...402397&page=90

That's page 90, if you are reading this a while later.

Send me your PS board and I will save your set.

Mr Bob

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post #21 of 24 Old 08-03-2011, 11:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kenleekenlee View Post

Hey, I've got a 720, and the overscan (cutting off edges of the screen) is ridiculous on this, and the other PRO_XXXHD sets. You can redo the geometry in the service menu to remove most of the overscan, but the service menu is far from friendly. If you're technologically inclined, I can send you the adjustment manual for the 520/620 series, which has the same service menu layout as the 720s. Be warned that redoing the geometry is difficult, *_extremely_* time consuming, and has to be done 3 times (once for each color).

I would love a copy of the manual to correct the overscanning issues on my Pro 710. Thanks in advance.
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post #22 of 24 Old 08-04-2011, 03:02 PM
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Just so you know, just owning the service manual is NOT the answer to the overscan problems. Yes you get the ingress technique and the listing of the primary registers involved in doing it, but there are lots of things the service manual does not cover.

And there are lots of ways to paint yourself into a corner you can't get out of without professional help. You can do more harm than good to your picture in seconds if you don't ALREADY know what you're doing before you go in.

I provide an inexpensive phone coaching service if you really don't want to hire one of us calibrators to do it, and want to do it on your own. Trust me, spending time with me on the phone is your best bet. Even if you are capable of crossing all the t's and dotting all the i's yourself for the general calibration part of it, the time it will take to get to that point on the learning curve will cost you dearly if your professional time worth anything at all. Leave anything out and it may be years before you find out what that was. During which time you will NOT have had the full benefit of these incredible machines.

And there are things about the process that you won't learn until you've done a few of them. Oops, make the a few dozen of them...



And things you will never learn without having made a career out of it, as we calibrators have.


I am all for DIYing, but on this kind of thing - where it was designed to be set up and fine tuned only by a highly experienced factory calibrator, which is exactly what has to happen once you have resized your picture to get rid of the overscan, you gotta take that now decimated picture and start reconstructing it from complete scratch - most people would be shooting themselves in the foot to be trying it alone and unsupervised, even with the service manual.

b

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post #23 of 24 Old 08-04-2011, 03:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lcaillo View Post

I do not recommend fixing Pioneers this way. Chances are that the new board has the same problem as the original. Unless they resoldered all the connections before sending it out, which is not typical. I have had to resolder more Pioneer replacement boards than I can count. Before buying a replacement board from them I would just take it to a shop to have the joints reworked.

And I would not. Local service techs don't future proof anything in there, They do what needs to be done, pull out and collect their money. They are not paid for spending the extravagant amount of time it takes to do what needs to be done on that board, with all the super small joints in there to redo. Leaving your set then vulnerable to the more dangerous cold solder joints that only go out later on, after the more innoccuous ones have either gone out or been remedied. Read what I said earlier about this, up in post #20 of this thread, here on this very page.

Nothing but resoldering it the full service way that Len and I do it is adequate for this cold solder joint problem, if you want your set permanently fixed and to be a top performer from then on. When done right it stays done and you never have to worry about that again.

b

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post #24 of 24 Old 11-25-2011, 09:33 AM
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This was just posted on another thread, thought I'd share it with you here -


Quote:
Originally Posted by najames View Post

Holy Cow Dave Harper!!! You said ISF is in Florida, so I decided to see where they're located. They're about 5-10 minutes from my house!! Didn't even know it, too darned funny.

I have an elderly Pioneer SD-532HD5 like this one.

http://www4.shopping.com/xFS?KW=pion...Video&FD=85747

I might just need to have this thing calibrated some day. It works OK and has been moved across the country twice, in storage for a couple years, never been touched except when I used the Avia disk set it up initially and when I moved here in Boca Raton 3 years ago.

Just noticed this post in another thread, from way back in '05.

Just so you know, those "elderly" CRT RPTVs are not old, they have a 20 year service life - or more, I've seen it, recently heard about a 29 year old Panny CRT 50" that's still cranking away just fine - and at today's stage are only halfway thru it. I know of an "old" curved screen bounce-off-the-screen Sears CRT whose guns fire at the hinged mirror that you pull out and let fall into place to start it up, that's still cranking away just fine too. We've been looking for someone to take it home and keep it going, or hopefully get it to some sort of video museum, tho I have never actually heard of one...

Well treated by their owners re. usage, light levels and avoidance of screenburn, they are capable of WAY better than new performance, even at 11 years old.

I am being flown all over the country cleaning and calibrating these "elderly" beasts, which are capable of incredible HD, head and shoulders better than a lot of the "affordable" fixed pixel offerings out there in today's marketplace. And better looking in some ways than all fixed pixel offerings.

The main thing that not everybody knows about them is that their optics need to be cleaned yearly, and on some brands - like the Pioneers, be they Elite or non-Elite - the "deeper optics" need it every few years as well. That's because of the air gap between the lens barrels and the CRT coolant covers, where 6 additional surfaces get invaded by dust, soot, smoke and all manner of other airborn contaminants, and thus compromised because of the high voltage turning them into powerful, continuous dust magnets every moment they are powered on. There's 28 optical surfaces in there that need to stay crystal clear, 10 of which get heavily compromised because of the HV. When all 28 surfaces are clean and polished and you have a crystal clear light path again, the results are truly astonishing. Like getting a brand new TV for a simple hour's work.

Just doing this one thing gives your "elderly" set a brand new looking picture - in my area my calibrations are called "The Sparkle Process" - and calibration after that is just incredible icing on the cake.

I started the "Don't Dump Your CRT RPTV!" thread here on AVS more than 5 years ago, and it is still going strong, with over 300 complete pages so far and over 9000 posts. If you have a CRT RPTV at all, HD or non-HD, I invite you to go over there and check it out.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...95922&page=327

If you have a CRT RPTV or know someone who does and want info about how to do your optics cleaning with no damage - those soft plastic surfaces in there are incredibly delicate, vulnerable and easily scratched, and any damage to them is permanent - contact me directly, by email or phone. No pm's please!

Thx -

Mr Bob

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