Basic Guide to Color Calibration using a CMS (updated and enhanced) - Page 28 - AVS | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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Display Calibration > Basic Guide to Color Calibration using a CMS (updated and enhanced)
TomHuffman's Avatar TomHuffman 08:58 AM 07-20-2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by rberger View Post

Also, I just found this guide to calibration. Please forgive me if it's been referenced by others already. Let me know whether you think it's useful.

http://www.curtpalme.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=10457

Yes, it is a very nice site, though its instructions assume a specific set of tools (HCFR in particular).

TomHuffman's Avatar TomHuffman 09:00 AM 07-20-2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by rberger View Post

Tom, now that you've worked on a 9G Pioneer Elite ... are the controls any better than they were on the 8G Elites? I'm asking because you sure didn't think the 8G controls were very effective. Thanks.

As long as you stay in the "Pure" mode, the limited CMS controls seem to work fine.
turbe's Avatar turbe 10:31 AM 07-20-2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by rberger View Post

Tom, now that you've worked on a 9G Pioneer Elite ... are the controls any better than they were on the 8G Elites? I'm asking because you sure didn't think the 8G controls were very effective. Thanks.

Concerning the Pioneer CMS (in the 8G's and now in the 9G's), many try to make as little adjustments as possible, adjusting the secondaries is causing issues in greyscale.

There is a discussion concerning this HERE (starting around Post #75?) and additional posts in the Private Beta Threads. If anyone is untested, including you Tom, let me know and I can give you access so you can read those Posts.

-S
TomHuffman's Avatar TomHuffman 12:56 PM 07-20-2008
To be absolutely clear, I worked on an Elite last year and I could not get the CMS to work without it having a quite visible effect on the grayscale. I found it completely useless.

Since then I worked on a couple more and I have found that so long as you use the "Pure" preset, these problems did not seem to occur. However, note that the Pure mode results in such accurate color, that the required adjustments are very small. I didn't touch the primaries at all and made only minor adjustments (2 or 3 ticks) to the secondaries. So it may be that I didn't see the problems only because my adjustments were below the threshold required to cause the grayscale problems.

BTW, I'd just like to emphasize that even if the Elite CMS had NO effect on the grayscale, it is a tool of limited value in any case. It operates on Hue only, so it is essentially just a more flexible Tint control and not really a CMS at all. At this price level, I find this unacceptable. Much less expensive units offer real CMSs.
turbe's Avatar turbe 05:28 PM 07-20-2008
Interesting... Tom, can I quote your Post above or can you repost?

Edit: I just re-read your Post, it sounds like you used the standard controls and not the ISFccc Interface, is that correct?
TomHuffman's Avatar TomHuffman 05:51 PM 07-20-2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by turbe View Post

I just re-read your Post, it sounds like you used the standard controls and not the ISFccc Interface, is that correct?

Yes.
ChuckZ's Avatar ChuckZ 09:50 PM 07-22-2008
Tom, I've downloaded your DVD files and built an ISO from them. I burned it to a DVD using ImgBurn. I don't see a test pattern for brightness, which is frustrating because I have to switch back to DVE for the test pattern. In the menu, selecting the contrast test pattern brings up the -1/-2% bars, but then after that are ANSI contrast test patterns. Following that is the sharpness pattern.

Where is the brightness test pattern located?
TomHuffman's Avatar TomHuffman 05:56 PM 07-23-2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChuckZ View Post

Tom, I've downloaded your DVD files and built an ISO from them. I burned it to a DVD using ImgBurn. I don't see a test pattern for brightness, which is frustrating because I have to switch back to DVE for the test pattern. In the menu, selecting the contrast test pattern brings up the -1/-2% bars, but then after that are ANSI contrast test patterns. Following that is the sharpness pattern.

Where is the brightness test pattern located?

I updated the files and included a couple of pluge patterns in the final section.
ChuckZ's Avatar ChuckZ 06:42 PM 07-24-2008
Sorry, I was using the generic DVD files link.

The Nero image file is the updated version.
youngunable's Avatar youngunable 10:06 AM 07-26-2008
When using the .65% method for setting brightness, the contrast and brightness settings interact. Do you keep going back and forth until the final result is .65% or just set it once?
TomHuffman's Avatar TomHuffman 11:35 AM 07-26-2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by youngunable View Post

When using the .65% method for setting brightness, the contrast and brightness settings interact. Do you keep going back and forth until the final result is .65% or just set it once?

Back and forth.
duke32's Avatar duke32 09:44 PM 07-26-2008
Quick and easy question on Y color settings.

Quote:


Rec. 709 (High Definition)
----x-------y--------Y
R---0.6400--0.3300---0.2127
G---0.3000--0.6000---0.7151
B---0.1500--0.0600---0.0722
Y---0.4193--0.5053---0.9278
C---0.2246--0.3287---0.7873
M---0.3209--0.1542---0.2849
W---0.3127--0.329----1.0

Per the instructions in the guide, Red/Color is set at 21%, Green at 71%, and Blue at 8%. Why isn't Blue set to 7% as the chart reads above? Do you want to intentionally want to set the brightness 1% high for Blue, and if so, why?
TomHuffman's Avatar TomHuffman 11:08 PM 07-26-2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by duke32 View Post

Quick and easy question on Y color settings.



Per the instructions in the guide, Red/Color is set at 21%, Green at 71%, and Blue at 8%. Why isn't Blue set to 7% as the chart reads above? Do you want to intentionally want to set the brightness 1% high for Blue, and if so, why?

Look at the spec for SMPTE-C, (SD).
tqn's Avatar tqn 06:54 PM 08-12-2008
Tom Huffman,
you mentioned you worked on a Samsung plasma A550 recently. Is there a way to adjust the Y value for RGB?

Recall that besides the grayscale control, there is a color space control where for each of RGBCYM, you can set the red, green, and blue value. This moves the x, y coordinates of the color in question. However, I do not see where I can adjust the Y for RGB. Is this setting available in the user menu, or even in the service menu?
TomHuffman's Avatar TomHuffman 07:18 PM 08-12-2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by tqn View Post

you mentioned you worked on a Samsung plasma A550 recently. Is there a way to adjust the Y value for RGB?

Recall that besides the grayscale control, there is a color space control where for each of RGBCYM, you can set the red, green, and blue value. This moves the x, y coordinates of the color in question. However, I do not see where I can adjust the Y for RGB. Is this setting available in the user menu, or even in the service menu?

I generally refrain from addressing questions about how to calibrate specific displays in this thread, because I want to keep the focus on the more general issue of color management and color science.

However, the Samsung CMS provides such an excellent example of a fully functional CMS, discussion of this seems appropriate.

You adjust the Y of the primaries by raising or lowering the primary's own RGB value (e.g., raise or lower the R in red or the G in green).

You adjust the Y of the secondaries by raising or lowering the RGB value of the contributing primaries by an equal amount (e.g., raise or lower the R and G equally of yellow or the G and B equally of cyan).
TomHuffman's Avatar TomHuffman 12:57 PM 08-23-2008
I have added a section to the original tutorial regarding the best methodologies to measure color error.
tsanga's Avatar tsanga 10:47 AM 08-24-2008
Thank you, Tom. Very educational as always.
stepyourgameup's Avatar stepyourgameup 10:45 PM 09-01-2008
Tom,
Is it worth my time to buy a colorimeter and do the calibration thing on my Panny AX200u? I am not sure how much control it has as far as calibration. Thanks.
jarrod1937's Avatar jarrod1937 06:26 AM 09-02-2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by stepyourgameup View Post

Tom,
Is it worth my time to buy a colorimeter and do the calibration thing on my Panny AX200u? I am not sure how much control it has as far as calibration. Thanks.

Have you checked to see what controls are given in the service menu?
stepyourgameup's Avatar stepyourgameup 07:21 AM 09-02-2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by jarrod1937 View Post

Have you checked to see what controls are given in the service menu?

Well, I don't know much about calibration right now so I wouldn't really know what to look for in the service menu. I was hoping someone could tell me if it would be worth the time and money to dive into this thing or not. If I will only see a minimal improvement, then I can leave it alone. I think the picture looks good but my eyes are by no means trained.
geisfx1's Avatar geisfx1 11:00 PM 09-17-2008
Tom,
was interested in if you have had any experience with the Lumigen Radiance that Sencore is now involoved with...it appears as very flexible in the cms, even including Y for all colors. You're opinion appreciated in its performance
Whisper2's Avatar Whisper2 07:18 AM 09-21-2008
Hi!,Tom. I've got a question about your Calibration DVD. This DVD is ok for NTSC TV system, but could I use DVD for PAL system?

Thanks in advanced
TomHuffman's Avatar TomHuffman 08:25 AM 09-21-2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by geisfx1 View Post

Tom,
was interested in if you have had any experience with the Lumigen Radiance that Sencore is now involoved with...it appears as very flexible in the cms, even including Y for all colors. You're opinion appreciated in its performance

Actually, I have quite a bit of experience with it. It works exactly as advertised, offering the only functional external color management option currently available. In addition to the CMS, it has a great grayscale/gamma tool that allows RGB and luma adjustments for each individual point along the grayscale. These tools along with the world class scaling and deinterlacing makes a profound difference to image quality.

The only downside is high cost and a somewhat overly-complicated user interface.
TomHuffman's Avatar TomHuffman 08:25 AM 09-21-2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by Whisper2 View Post

Hi!,Tom. I've got a question about your Calibration DVD. This DVD is ok for NTSC TV system, but could I use DVD for PAL system?

Thanks in advanced

GetGray has a nice PAL version for only $25.
ibre34's Avatar ibre34 11:01 AM 09-21-2008
I own an LCD

I was wondering: is there any way to calibrate the backlight control?

Because I think the backlight level wil afect all other controls

Thanks for your help
Whisper2's Avatar Whisper2 11:42 AM 09-21-2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by TomHuffman View Post

GetGray has a nice PAL version for only $25.

Tom thanks for your answer, But I would like to know if your DVD is ok for PAL. I gather by the response that it is not. Is it right?

Best regards

PD: I've got GetGray NTSC/PAL versions and DVE (all versions NTSC/PAL/BR/HD DVD/PRO)
TomHuffman's Avatar TomHuffman 12:41 PM 09-21-2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by Whisper2 View Post

Tom thanks for your answer, But I would like to know if your DVD is ok for PAL. I gather by the response that it is not. Is it right?

Correct.
den110's Avatar den110 12:36 PM 10-11-2008
Hi Tom Huffman

I am a newbie on calibrating with equipment. I currently have a Sharp z12000 (not mark II) this is calibrated with DVE blu ray. I have a panny bd30 blu ray player and a carada 1.3 gain 118in diag. screen in a totally light controlled dedicated home theater. I want to calibrate my pj as per your tutoral. The picture looks stunning just with the DVE blu ray calibration disc, but obviously with my pj I want to get the most accurate picture. Since i cannot spend thousands on equipment, what can I use that is simple, accurate and inexpensive. I noticed you recommended a Pantone Eye-One Lt, will this work on a pj screen? What software can I use? Any help would be appreciated.
sleepydvdr's Avatar sleepydvdr 01:02 PM 10-17-2008
From reading the tutorial (and good reviews on the internet), I would like to try the GretagMacbeth Display 2 to calibrate my TV. I'm using a Samsung LN46A550 LCD as my computer monitor/TV. I play everything through the computer - I have no standalone DVD players.

So, my question is, since this is designed for a much smaller screen than mine, will it work for me? Also, would it calibrate well for movie watching? That's more important to me than having accurate computer colors.

I'm new to all this, in case you can't tell. Basically, it's pretty much at factory settings right now and I know it could be better. I'm not looking for perfection, just want to get it somewhat closer than it is now.
TomHuffman's Avatar TomHuffman 01:36 PM 10-17-2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by den110 View Post

Since i cannot spend thousands on equipment, what can I use that is simple, accurate and inexpensive. I noticed you recommended a Pantone Eye-One Lt, will this work on a pj screen? What software can I use? Any help would be appreciated.

Yes. I mention 2 software choices at the beginning of the tutorial.
Tags: X Rite Eodis3 I1display Pro , X Rite Cmundis Colormunki Display , X Rite Eye One Display Lt , Calman 4 0 Calibration Software Home License , Aemc Ca813 Peak Function Lightmeter 200 000 Lux Range 0 01 Lux Resolution 3 Accuracy
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