Samsung Service Menu Calibration Guide - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 123 Old 08-14-2007, 09:59 AM - Thread Starter
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Samsung Service Menu Guide for Dummies and Cheapskates

FWIW & M2CW & YMMV.

Cheers,
Doc


PS: Please leave objective critiques in this thread, and not the thread with the guide... thanks!
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post #2 of 123 Old 08-14-2007, 02:26 PM
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Doc

Great work on the guide! I do have a couple of questions though. Why are you multiplying your luminance (Y) values from the sensor by 4? Is that just for the Spyder2?

Alvin
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post #3 of 123 Old 08-14-2007, 02:28 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by alwilli View Post

Doc

Great work on the guide! I do have a couple of questions though. Why are you multiplying your luminance (Y) values from the sensor by 4? Is that just for the Spyder2?

Alvin

That's a quirk of the Samsung... a thread was posted also on this about "4x oversampling of Y" on the Samsung, which gives the x4 numerical value. weird huh?

Doc
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post #4 of 123 Old 08-14-2007, 07:38 PM
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Originally Posted by alwilli View Post

... Why are you multiplying your luminance (Y) values from the sensor by 4? ...

I have no experience with the HL-S model, but haved played around quite a bit with the HL-R models. My comments might not be totally applicable but I suspect they are based on discussions I read concerning the HL-Ss.

With the HL-R, the data in the (color)Y positions are suppose to be in units of candles/sq. meter (cd/m^2). Most meters I have seen read out in foot-Lamberts (ft-L) by default. I suspect that the multiplication by 4 is an approximation for the conversion of ft-Ls to cd/m^2. The actual value for the conversion is 3.4262.

FWIW.

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post #5 of 123 Old 08-14-2007, 08:55 PM
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DocRings As I previously noted, I have no experience with the HL-S. Though I'm aware that there are differences in calibrating the HL-S and HL-R models, I have noted a few things that I consider odd in the way the HL-S procedure differs from the HL-R. I'm definitely not an expert - just a lot of experience (and not all good). Please disregard any and all if you are comfortable with your original sources.

1. This point I'm sure about You need to add a step to turn off CCA before adjusting color. In order to correctly adjust the color decoder using the User Menu Color control or the Service Menu sub-color control, CCA must be turned off. Both Eliab and David Abrams have mentioned this is necessary with both the HL-R and HL-S because of the way the CCA mixes colors to move the coordinate position of the primary and secondary colors. If CCA is on when the color adjustment is made, you are not dealing with the colors from the decoder but with the decoder colors after they have been manipulated.

2. Populating the (color)x, (color)y, (color)Y data. For the HL-R, the x,y,Y data is initially measured with CCA off and using specific patterns (primary colors & white) generated internally via a parameter in the service menu. (For the HL-R, the menu is DDP1011 > Test Pattern. Don't know if this menu is in the HL-S.) The theory is that each light engine is different and using the internal patterns with CCA off, you can get the true output of the light engine for the CCA to work with.

The basic procedure you've described for use after populating the initial CCA data is essentially the same as for the HL-R.

Obviously, the point is to get the color coordinates aligned with one of the standards (HD or Std). Since your method gets you there, all's fine. Just thought I'd indicate what I have found.

3. Use of the WB Spread parameter. For the HL-R, this control not only turns CCA back on, it also spreads or copies the data to other inputs. This is good for the first input, to provide a common starting point for tweaking each input. However, if you calibrate a second input and use WB Spread, it could wipe out your first input calibration. I do not know that the HL-S works the same way. You might want to check it.

For the HL-R, I have found that CCA does not need to be turned off to update the CCA data. To get CCA to update if CCA is not turned off, just back out of the menu by one level from the level in which the data is entered. This also works in entering the D(Color) values. This way, you can stay in the CCA menus and see right away the impact of a change in one of the values.

4. Beware the referenced Sencore Calibration article. Eliab has commented publicly in the main HL-S thread that the Sencore procedure is factually incorrect in part and flat out would not work with the HL-S.

FWIW.

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post #6 of 123 Old 08-15-2007, 09:53 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by donb1948 View Post

DocRings As I previously noted, I have no experience with the HL-S. Though I'm aware that there are differences in calibrating the HL-S and HL-R models, I have noted a few things that I consider odd in the way the HL-S procedure differs from the HL-R. I'm definitely not an expert - just a lot of experience (and not all good). Please disregard any and all if you are comfortable with your original sources.

1. This point I'm sure about You need to add a step to turn off CCA before adjusting color. In order to correctly adjust the color decoder using the User Menu Color control or the Service Menu sub-color control, CCA must be turned off. Both Eliab and David Abrams have mentioned this is necessary with both the HL-R and HL-S because of the way the CCA mixes colors to move the coordinate position of the primary and secondary colors. If CCA is on when the color adjustment is made, you are not dealing with the colors from the decoder but with the decoder colors after they have been manipulated.

Yes, I've done both, and seems to not matter since I can "get there from here". I will add the option, though, since I trust both those gentlemen. I just wanted to minimize steps for the n00bies, especially if this method gets there, but maybe just a little different path.

Quote:


2. Populating the (color)x, (color)y, (color)Y data. For the HL-R, the x,y,Y data is initially measured with CCA off and using specific patterns (primary colors & white) generated internally via a parameter in the service menu. (For the HL-R, the menu is DDP1011 > Test Pattern. Don't know if this menu is in the HL-S.) The theory is that each light engine is different and using the internal patterns with CCA off, you can get the true output of the light engine for the CCA to work with.

I'm using the same colors & white from the GetGray. BUT, that would be nice to have that option for those without the DVD. I'll try and dig into the SM and find those patterns. I've seen them before in there, but want to ensure accurate directions. Thanks for the tip!

Quote:


The basic procedure you've described for use after populating the initial CCA data is essentially the same as for the HL-R.

Obviously, the point is to get the color coordinates aligned with one of the standards (HD or Std). Since your method gets you there, all's fine. Just thought I'd indicate what I have found.

3. Use of the WB Spread parameter. For the HL-R, this control not only turns CCA back on, it also spreads or copies the data to other inputs. This is good for the first input, to provide a common starting point for tweaking each input. However, if you calibrate a second input and use WB Spread, it could wipe out your first input calibration. I do not know that the HL-S works the same way. You might want to check it.

Thank you for the very important point I did not know! Ain't this forum great? Yes, it did "spread" the values to all my inputs. And I'll put your tip in the guide to "not" use the WB Spread for other inputs, but to just turn "on" the CCA to activate the new DcolorX, DcolorY values.

Quote:


For the HL-R, I have found that CCA does not need to be turned off to update the CCA data. To get CCA to update if CCA is not turned off, just back out of the menu by one level from the level in which the data is entered. This also works in entering the D(Color) values. This way, you can stay in the CCA menus and see right away the impact of a change in one of the values.

Are you saying to back out of the individual data entry box, or back out of the CCA(on) menu? Either way, I'll give that tip a try on my next calibration (1080p on HD-DVD when I get the HD-DVE disc in the mail]

Quote:


4. Beware the referenced Sencore Calibration article. Eliab has commented publicly in the main HL-S thread that the Sencore procedure is factually incorrect in part and flat out would not work with the HL-S.

Thanks, it's good to know I'm not the only one who thought it was incorrect for the HL-S models... but it was a key article for me (and hopefully others) in building a knowledge database on how this menu works. I'll put a little annotation in there.

Quote:


FWIW.

Your comments are worth alot! Thank you!

Cheers,
Doc
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post #7 of 123 Old 08-16-2007, 01:48 PM
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The HLTs are a little different than the HLS

The HLT models have a Desaturation menu in addition to the CCA menu. It has xy coordinates for primaries and secondaries called "Normal" and another set called "sRGB". You can calibrate "normal" to rec 601(SD) and sRGB to rec 709 (HD). Initially sRGB is close to Rec. 709. Start by inputting the expected values for the primaries and secondaries for each standard in the Desat menu. Then turn CCA off then back on for your change to take effect. If you want to copy this to other inputs, WB spread. This will get you close. You can then tweak the coordinates in the Desaturation menu in the SM to get all coordinates to line up with the CIE coordinates like this:

Note: SM default is Dynamic Cool1 for white point

1. CCA on
2. Measure primaries/secondaries
3. Calculate x and y delta from nominal
4. Change x and y by that delta in Desaturation menu
5. CCA off
6. CCA on
7. Re-measure
8. Repeat until all primaries and secondaries line up
9. WB spread to copy to all inputs

You can use continuous reading to help if you have SW that does this. I am sure you can probably tweak the CCA values to accomplish this as well. I have not tried that yet. It would be faster because you could see the effect of your changes by scrolling up or down to the next data field in the CCA menu.

Done? Nope. I found that when you exit SM and measure in the user menu that things are off slightly. Don't know why.

User mode will be Dynamic
If you didn't set contrast, brightness, color in SM do so in user and note your settings.

1. Measure primaries/secondaries
2. Calculate x and y delta from nominal
3. Enter SM
4. Change x and y by that delta in Desaturation menu
5. CCA off
6. CCA on
7. WB spread
8. Exit SM

Go into user
Enter calibrated user settings if needed
Repeat steps 1-8 until everything lines up.

Write down all original values, tweak at your own risk, and good luck.

I have noticed that the color decoder does not seem quite right. I do not know how to tweak this. The luminance values for RGB are not right when compared to what they should be to comprise white.

You can tell that I do not write tech manuals for a living but I hope this info helps.
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post #8 of 123 Old 08-16-2007, 02:18 PM
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Originally Posted by docrings View Post

Are you saying to back out of the individual data entry box, or back out of the CCA(on) menu

Back out of the "individual data entry box," and the CCA calculations will update using the new data. I find measurement easier with the data entry box on the screen (more clear space for the pattern). So, after backing out, I use the remote to immediately re-enter the data entry level and make the measurement, which I can immediately tweak, if needed. As before, works for the HL-R... don't know about the HL-S.

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post #9 of 123 Old 08-16-2007, 07:39 PM - Thread Starter
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Great feedback.. I'll incorporate into the guide to check here for HL-T users!

Cheers!
Doc

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post #10 of 123 Old 08-17-2007, 01:34 PM
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I have a Samsung HLR6178W and the picture has creeped in about 2 " on the left side leaving a 2" black band. Does anyone know the adjustment to correct this alignment problem?

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post #11 of 123 Old 08-17-2007, 03:32 PM
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Originally Posted by JerryD View Post

I have a Samsung HLR6178W and the picture has creeped in about 2 " on the left side leaving a 2" black band.

Are you sure this is not the infamous "shadow on the left" problem caused by the collasped light tunnel? There is a thread on it: Shadow on the Left This is not correctable via service menu adjustments.

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post #12 of 123 Old 08-19-2007, 06:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alwilli View Post

The HLTs are a little different than the HLS

The HLT models have a Desaturation menu in addition to the CCA menu.
I have noticed that the color decoder does not seem quite right. I do not know how to tweak this. The luminance values for RGB are not right when compared to what they should be to comprise white.

You can tell that I do not write tech manuals for a living but I hope this info helps.

Great addendum to an already awesome guide. I wish I had understood CCA on and off would update things since I wasn't sure I kept WB spreading. Would have saved me a bit of time.
BTW, did Samsung just make this process even the more grueling by putting the Dvalues in another menu?

Can anyone help me understand the following:

1.What are the Contrast offset, (M)Contrast Offset, Sub Color_offset used for?
2. Can anyone else verify this - if I change inputs or power down my set I must now enter the SM and 'touch' the gamma control in order to get my settings to take. Without doing this gamma, grayscale, and color are off (it really looks like it is in some kind of burn mode similar to the shop demo mode - but that is off). All I need do is adjust gamma up and then back down and things are normal. Of course this is a pain because it resets all my user mode settings.
3. Is there a way to custom set the defaults for user menu? Dni off, Sharpness off, Size 16:9, active color off?
4. What is active color btw?
5. Finally, I thought there was a way to use the PC mode while using the HDMI input? Detailed settings is completely grayed out for me. Thanks
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post #13 of 123 Old 08-20-2007, 11:28 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by moshmothma View Post


Can anyone help me understand the following:

1.What are the Contrast offset, (M)Contrast Offset, Sub Color_offset used for?

Don't know... but look forward to an answer...

Quote:


2. Can anyone else verify this - if I change inputs or power down my set I must now enter the SM and 'touch' the gamma control in order to get my settings to take. Without doing this gamma, grayscale, and color are off (it really looks like it is in some kind of burn mode similar to the shop demo mode - but that is off). All I need do is adjust gamma up and then back down and things are normal. Of course this is a pain because it resets all my user mode settings.

New one on me...

Quote:


3. Is there a way to custom set the defaults for user menu? Dni off, Sharpness off, Size 16:9, active color off?

Yes, you can turn off DNIe in the DNIe menu, and also deactive the first 10 SNI_PROC settings in the DNIe menu. You can turn off NR in the SDP(51) menu. You must do this individually for each input and resolution you calibrate. e.g. My XBOX can output 480p *and* 1080i over component for gaming and DVD's... I must calibrate and make DNIe and Noise reduction settings for each one, even though it's all going over one input.

Quote:


4. What is active color btw?

Which menu do you see that?

Quote:


5. Finally, I thought there was a way to use the PC mode while using the HDMI input? Detailed settings is completely grayed out for me. Thanks

Can you still do a service menu calibration? Then you won't ever have to touch the settings in the video user menu...

Cheers,
Doc

PS: Just learning all this stuff, too!
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post #14 of 123 Old 08-20-2007, 12:48 PM
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Originally Posted by docrings View Post


Which menu do you see that?



Can you still do a service menu calibration? Then you won't ever have to touch the settings in the video user menu...

Cheers,
Doc

PS: Just learning all this stuff, too!

THanks for the reply

1. Active Color is on the User menu - right under DNIe.
2. I did a service menu calibration (which is now AWESOME! thanks to your guide). THe problem is because of my need to touch the gamma everytime I turn the set on, I have to reenter the SM which resets all of the User menu options to the default.

Thanks again for the awesome guide.
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post #15 of 123 Old 08-20-2007, 12:52 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by moshmothma View Post

THanks for the reply

1. Active Color is on the User menu - right under DNIe.
2. I did a service menu calibration (which is now AWESOME! thanks to your guide). THe problem is because of my need to touch the gamma everytime I turn the set on, I have to reenter the SM which resets all of the User menu options to the default.

Thanks again for the awesome guide.

If you did the service menu calibration, and disabled DNIe and NR, then entering and exiting the SM should not change the picture... unless something else is happening...
Your problem is unique, and I'm not sure what to make of it with the Gamma menu issue...

Good luck,
Doc
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post #16 of 123 Old 08-21-2007, 08:54 AM
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Originally Posted by docrings View Post

If you did the service menu calibration, and disabled DNIe and NR, then entering and exiting the SM should not change the picture... unless something else is happening...
Your problem is unique, and I'm not sure what to make of it with the Gamma menu issue...

Good luck,
Doc

Yeah, I seem to happen upon these unique sets. How do I approach Samsung support about this one? Does anyone know how to just get to their level 2 support?

Unfortunately, I have an HLT set and cannot find the NR controls in the SM. I did confirm though that DNIe off or on in the User Menu does not affect PQ if DNIe is off in the SM.

Now the only things left in the user menu i have to alter is the sharpness control (defaults to 75), and the size (defaults to Just Scan).

Thanks
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post #17 of 123 Old 08-21-2007, 09:04 AM
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Moshmothma,

Exactly what do you mean when you say "Touch the gamma"?

Alvin
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post #18 of 123 Old 08-21-2007, 04:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alwilli View Post

Moshmothma,

Exactly what do you mean when you say "Touch the gamma"?

Alvin

Yeah, it's kinda wierd. I described it in one of my earlier posts. Basically, I have to enter the SM, go to Gamma move it up a notch and then back down before my calibrated settings are enabled. Once I do this, all is normal until I shut the set off or change inputs. Without doing this gamma, brightness, grayscale and color are all off. To me it looks like it is in shop mode (but isn't).
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post #19 of 123 Old 08-25-2007, 02:37 PM
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why do your instructions for adjusting the brightness and contrast differ from the instructions in the getgray pdf?
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post #20 of 123 Old 10-20-2007, 04:40 PM
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Thanks to alwilli for the HLT update. I also have noticed that once calibrated in the SM, the colors appear off in the UM once you exit. Going back and forth into and out of the SM to recalibrate is tedious.

Does anyone know why the there is a difference once you exit the SM? Is some other enhancement feature being turned on when you go into the user mode that changes the colors slightly? It seems pointless that you can get something so close in the SM, only to have to retweak it in user mode.

Thanks.
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post #21 of 123 Old 10-21-2007, 07:38 PM
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Originally Posted by nopain00 View Post

Thanks to alwilli for the HLT update. I also have noticed that once calibrated in the SM, the colors appear off in the UM once you exit. Going back and forth into and out of the SM to recalibrate is tedious.

Thanks.

Does not always work that way for me. I have definitely taken measurements within the SM and without and things were the same. This set has been very hokey for me that way.
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post #22 of 123 Old 10-22-2007, 07:07 AM
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Originally Posted by nopain00 View Post

Thanks to alwilli for the HLT update. I also have noticed that once calibrated in the SM, the colors appear off in the UM once you exit. Going back and forth into and out of the SM to recalibrate is tedious.

Does anyone know why the there is a difference once you exit the SM? Is some other enhancement feature being turned on when you go into the user mode that changes the colors slightly? It seems pointless that you can get something so close in the SM, only to have to retweak it in user mode.

Thanks.

No answer… just a bit of history… This info is from the HL-T owners’ thread but I was too lazy to look for the specific posts.

When the HL-T’s first came out, Eliab and David reported that the sets could not be calibrated via the service menu. They reported that the set reverted to different settings on leaving the service menu and that returning the service menu to the original settings did not get back to the original picture parameters (gamut, gray scale, etc.). They reported that Samsung had been contacted about the problem and the Samsung engineers were investigating.

I do not remember that either Eliab or David ever explained what the problem was. There was one post from either Eliab or David that suggested that the calibration had to be done in a certain order for settings to hold. But, no details were given.

Eliab and David were the first to calibrate one of these sets and report about it on AVS. None of the other calibrators who later posted in the HL-T thread reported the problem.

FWIW.

(EDIT: I just remembered something else. There were a couple of posts that speculated that the problem had to do with the the system in the HL-T that compensated for the natural decay of the light output of the LEDs. The circuit could not tell the difference between the LEDs aging and the light output being changed via the service menu. This was never "officially" confirmed. Nor was there ever any word of a fix. As before, FWIW.)

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post #23 of 123 Old 10-22-2007, 12:03 PM
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No answer just a bit of history This info is from the HL-T owners' thread but I was too lazy to look for the specific posts.

When the HL-T's first came out, Eliab and David reported that the sets could not be calibrated via the service menu. They reported that the set reverted to different settings on leaving the service menu and that returning the service menu to the original settings did not get back to the original picture parameters (gamut, gray scale, etc.). They reported that Samsung had been contacted about the problem and the Samsung engineers were investigating.

I do not remember that either Eliab or David ever explained what the problem was. There was one post from either Eliab or David that suggested that the calibration had to be done in a certain order for settings to hold. But, no details were given.

Eliab and David were the first to calibrate one of these sets and report about it on AVS. None of the other calibrators who later posted in the HL-T thread reported the problem.

FWIW.

(EDIT: I just remembered something else. There were a couple of posts that speculated that the problem had to do with the the system in the HL-T that compensated for the natural decay of the light output of the LEDs. The circuit could not tell the difference between the LEDs aging and the light output being changed via the service menu. This was never "officially" confirmed. Nor was there ever any word of a fix. As before, FWIW.)

There's definitely something going on with the color calibration between going in the SM and the UM. What's even more strange is that the first time I calibrated with the SM and got my CIE triangle perfect, when I went into the UM and checked it again, it was off--not as far as it was uncalibrated, but somewhere in between.

Then when I went back into the SM, even though my settings (the numbers I input) were still the same as when I calibrated it, the CIE triangle I read with primaries and secondaries was off again, though my different amounts than when checked during UM. Surprisingly, as I kept at it, going back and forth between SM and UM, I was able to get the triangle almost spot on on both the SM and the UM.

It's as if when changed in the SM, the set doesn't update the output until you exit out completely, go into UM, and then go back in.
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post #24 of 123 Old 10-23-2007, 07:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nopain00 View Post


It's as if when changed in the SM, the set doesn't update the output until you exit out completely, go into UM, and then go back in.

I thought I had read that from someone else before as well. Total Pain!!!
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post #25 of 123 Old 10-25-2007, 08:27 AM
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First I'd just like to say thanks docrings for the HUGE amount of very useful info you've posted here about the HL-S TVs. I've learned a ton already and I just started to do a self calibration on my 5087 with HCFR and a i1-LT. I do have some questions though...

I'm doing my initial cal using a PS3 over HDMI. I did my grayscale last night using AVIA, being upscaled in the PS3, but I'm going to do it again tonight using the 1080p .ts stream IRE/pri/sec fields that found somewhere. (rename them from .ts to .mpg and the ps3 will play them natively). I'm guessing if I set the PS3's display output to RGB full range, that I have to calibrate to 0-255 and not 16-235.

Quote:


- Spyder2 probe, change 300ms-->500ms, extend time for dark, average readings

Should I do this with the i1-LT as well? It seemed to give pretty stable dark readings with it off. I didn't change the delay.

Quote:


- DNIe menu: Use a 100% (or 100 IRE) window with HCFR/Spyder probe, and adjust sub-contrast to a constant reading (xyY) of Y to ~100 (best in a dark home theater setting). [One can also opt to adjust the DB iris in manual mode to the same Y luminance to ~100. (For me that was an iris setting of ~145, but I'm back to DB on now. See this link for changing to manual iris)]. For my TV with a new bulb, it was a subcontrast setting of 97.

When using manual iris control to adjust the Y luminance, what should the sub-contrast be set at? Also, 100cd/m^2 is too dim for my taste. My HT is in my livingroom, and it's the family TV that we watch all the time with brighter than optimal room lighting. Should I just set the iris to get a Y of 100 for the calibrations, and then just go back and open it back up when I'm finished?

When adjusting the grayscale, are the WB_color_B_COEFF and WB_color_C_COEFF the only settings that I have to adjust the grayscale over the entire luminance range?


On to color....

Quote:


- Input HCFR colorx,y & White x,y readings into the CCA menu for Redx, Redy, RedY, Greenx, Greeny, Whitex, Whitey, etc. Be mindful that the Y values must be multiplied by 4 prior to entry into the menu. To change luminance (big Y), you must next adjust the bigY value in CCA so that each color/hue is a standard % of WhiteY value (which you earlier set to a readout of 100). See the HD table at the bottom for values. Spyder2 readout values should be: RedY 21% of WhiteY, GreenY 71% of WhiteY, BlueY 8% of WhiteY.

So after I do a primaries and secondaries sensor acquisition, I just plug those numbers into the CCA menu, multiplying the Y values by 4 right? And then I go back and divide the whiteY value by the corresponding % for each pri/sec and then change those numbers again? Or do I throw up the color fields and _measure_ the Y values again, and adjust them so that they're correct % of whiteY in HCFR? This step really confused me.

Quote:


- Scroll down to WB SPREAD. Activate by selecting it and hitting the right arrow on your remote, and get the OK. [It is very important to note that it "spreads" this calibration to ALL the other input channels. Only do this on the FIRST channel you calibrate! For others, just manually to fine-tune ONLY the input channel you are currently calibrating.]

What settings does WB Spread actually "spread"? Is it everything, or just the settings for grayscale and color? (iris?, gamma?, NR?...)


Sorry for the novel, thanks in advance!
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post #26 of 123 Old 11-04-2007, 05:08 PM
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Originally Posted by armygreen11 View Post


On to color....

So after I do a primaries and secondaries sensor acquisition, I just plug those numbers into the CCA menu, multiplying the Y values by 4 right? And then I go back and divide the whiteY value by the corresponding % for each pri/sec and then change those numbers again? Or do I throw up the color fields and _measure_ the Y values again, and adjust them so that they're correct % of whiteY in HCFR? This step really confused me.

Did this ever get answered for you? I am confused about it as well. Thanks
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post #27 of 123 Old 11-26-2007, 11:44 AM
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I never calibrated any display before but I found this great guide and another good one "Basic Guide to Color Calibration using a CMS".
So I gave it a try over this long holidays. For the most part the two guides were self explanatory and not very hard to follow even for the newbie(for both calibration and English language) like me.

My setup
TV : Samsung DLP HL-S6188
DVD player : Philips DVP5982 upscaling player connected to HDMI1 input to Samsung TV
Colorimeter : eye-one LT
Software : HCFR
Test Pattern : Pattern provided in "Basic Guide to Color Calibration using a CMS" thread.

I was able to calibrate grayscale with no problem. Delta E is under 4 all across 20% to 100%, color temperature is close to 6500K. And Gamma is between 2.2 to 2.4. And primaries/secondaries are very close to CIE triangle diagram after adjusting x, y, Desired x, Desired y values in CCA.

But I have a problem adjusting color decoder(brightness of each color, large Y values). First of all I couldn't get RedY around 21% of WhiteY by adjusting sub-color function in DNIe. It never reaches that points. And all other Y values(left side) in CCA won't let me adjust each color's brightness. So Red Y is like 15% of WhiteY, GreenY is less than 50% of WhiteY, BlueY is 10% of WhiteY and etc after calibration and. And they won't change by adjusting Y values in CCA. I've tried various contrast (from very dark to very bright) but didn't solve the problem.

A little help on how to adjust these Y values would be greatly appreciated. Or is my TV defect?

Sean.

- Panny 65PS64 Plasma, Denon 3313, Panny BD35 Bluray, HTPC (XBMC), Energy RC-70, RC-LCR, RC-10 & V-mini (FH), Outlaw LFM EX
- Samsung 63" Plasma, Xbox 360, WiiU, Wii, PS2, Pioneer VSX-1018, Energy Micro 5.0 + Polk PSW125
- Onkyo TX-8255, Infinity Primus P163
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post #28 of 123 Old 01-01-2008, 02:09 PM
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I ran through docring's basic SM calibration. I don't have a probe, so I stopped at the appropriate point.

I was pleased with my brightness/contrast results, however my colors seemed pretty far off. I used blue-filter glasses with the color test pattern on the THX optimizer. I adjusted the subcolor value per docring's directions.

Now my picture looks oversaturated, and there is some pretty substantial blue-push going on. Apart from that, while the overall image looks sharper, I'm noticing a lot more noise in the image than before. Switching to Movie mode from Dynamic resolves all of these problems, but then I've pretty much defeated the service menu adjustments I made, right?

Am I missing a step somewhere?

Thanks.
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post #29 of 123 Old 01-01-2008, 08:22 PM - Thread Starter
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I just got my HLT replacement set up and going, and gave the calibration a go today with Spyder2 probe, and HCFR software. Your technique using the Desaturation submenu (of the service menu) is spot-on to the technique I am using. Good job! The only difference I found, is that I didn't have to exit the CCA menu to activate the change, just move up or down to a different x or y variable, and it activates, so the inputs and color calibration go very quickly.

Now if I can find a way to change the Gamma in the service menu, as mine is greyed out to OEM(4) gamma.

Also, can't find a sub-color setting, so still have to manually reduce color in the user video menu after exiting the SM.

I also disabled sharpening, and some of the other "default" dynamic-type settings, too.

So far looks really good, with good greyscale tracking and spot-on color coordinates on the CIE triangle.

See my post in the HLT thread (p. 156).

Cheers,
Doc

Cheers!
Doc

Quote:
Originally Posted by alwilli View Post

The HLTs are a little different than the HLS

The HLT models have a “Desaturation” menu in addition to the CCA menu. It has xy coordinates for primaries and secondaries called "Normal" and another set called "sRGB". You can calibrate "normal" to rec 601(SD) and sRGB to rec 709 (HD). Initially sRGB is close to Rec. 709. Start by inputting the expected values for the primaries and secondaries for each standard in the Desat menu. Then turn CCA off then back on for your change to take effect. If you want to copy this to other inputs, WB spread. This will get you close. You can then tweak the coordinates in the Desaturation menu in the SM to get all coordinates to line up with the CIE coordinates like this:

Note: SM default is Dynamic Cool1 for white point

1. CCA on
2. Measure primaries/secondaries
3. Calculate x and y delta from nominal
4. Change x and y by that delta in Desaturation menu
5. CCA off
6. CCA on
7. Re-measure
8. Repeat until all primaries and secondaries line up
9. WB spread to copy to all inputs

You can use continuous reading to help if you have SW that does this. I am sure you can probably tweak the CCA values to accomplish this as well. I have not tried that yet. It would be faster because you could see the effect of your changes by scrolling up or down to the next data field in the CCA menu.

Done? Nope. I found that when you exit SM and measure in the user menu that things are off slightly. Don’t know why.

User mode will be Dynamic
If you didn’t set contrast, brightness, color in SM do so in user and note your settings.

1. Measure primaries/secondaries
2. Calculate x and y delta from nominal
3. Enter SM
4. Change x and y by that delta in Desaturation menu
5. CCA off
6. CCA on
7. WB spread
8. Exit SM

Go into user
Enter calibrated user settings if needed
Repeat steps 1-8 until everything lines up.

Write down all original values, tweak at your own risk, and good luck.

I have noticed that the color decoder does not seem quite right. I do not know how to tweak this. The luminance values for RGB are not right when compared to what they should be to comprise white.

You can tell that I do not write tech manuals for a living but I hope this info helps.

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post #30 of 123 Old 01-02-2008, 02:07 PM - Thread Starter
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Now after owning and calibrating an HL-T, it seems that about half of the posts in this thread are in regards to the HL-T model, and NOT the HL-S model which it was intended... but they do all have great information regarding the HL-T calibration and it's menu peculiarities.

At this point, for those of you trying to calibrate LUMINANCE values with the large "Y" values, I would avoid that at this point... it's pretty hard to do reliably, and probably best just setting subcolor with the blue filter, and then tweaking color 'to taste' in the user menu once you are watching a movie (use the "steaming rat" method which is in my TECH LINKS).

Beyond this guide, and if you want to eek out the last bit of performance, I would give Eliab or HTWaits a phone call...

But ain't tweaking fun? That's the whole point...kind of like hot roddin' a car: yes, there are pros that can do it better/faster, but for me, where's the fun in that? (I *am* a gearhead, after all!)

Cheers,
Doc

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