AVS HD 709 - Blu-ray & MP4 Calibration - Page 106 - AVS Forum
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post #3151 of 4096 Old 01-23-2012, 04:14 PM
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Thanks for these patterns and information!!! I have used my hardware/software (Eye One Pro, Calman v4) in addition to these patterns to calibrate my two LED HDTV's (Samsung UN60D8000, UN55D8000). I used my blu ray player to perform the calibration on my HDMI inputs (and picture modes). I got very good results ... but, wonder if my Comcast DVR calibration is optimal.

Would I get any further benefit by tweaking the calibration on my Comcast DVR by using the MP4 files and playing them directly through the DVR? Would I encounter any issues in taking this approach?

> Bill
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post #3152 of 4096 Old 01-23-2012, 06:05 PM
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Until they provide STB's that generate test patterns from the box itself, calibrating cable (or satellite) sources will be hit or miss.

Program material is handled inconsistently from one channel to another or even from one show to another, so one calibration may not give great results in all situations. And honestly, when I'm watching a typical bit-starved low-pass-filtered frame-dropping SD encode of some old B movie, the last thing I will be complaining about is a badly "calibrated" input on my display.

Still, for those times when the source is very good, adequate bit rate is provided, and standards were followed at every point along the chain, you do want to have the basic settings in the ball park.

Generally, if you have calibrated your display using one HDMI source, you can try to use the same settings when viewing another HDMI source provided the two devices aren't using completely different output settings like "video" vs "PC" levels or RGB vs YCbCr color spaces.

A very quick and dirty technique for checking black level is often described as follows: find an HD channel showing 4:3 content surrounded by black pillar bars. Pause a scene with relatively low APL. Adjust your black level (aka "brightness") to its minimum, then raise it until the black just begins to visibly change to gray in the pillar bar area of the image. Go back to the level just before this point, the highest possible setting where the pillar bars are still completely black. Again, you may want to repeat this at different times using several different channels to make sure you didn't happen to use a non-standard broadcast for your test.

Once upon a time (as recently as May 2011), HDNet was broadcasting a 10 minute "show" displaying test patterns on weekend mornings (eg, Saturday, 6AM ET / 3AM PT) . If they ever do so again, record it, and do your best to use those patterns to calibrate. Here is one man's opinion on how to use the patterns: http://www.smartcalibration.com/hdnetpatterns.html

I am not sure I understand how you would play the "MP4 files" directly from the Comcast box? You basically have to have a source that came into your building from the cable network. Once you have it saved on your DVR, you can be pretty well assured the DVR is not going to do anything more to it.

But I don't think cable (or satellite) STB's "play back" content other than what originated from their networks.
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post #3153 of 4096 Old 01-25-2012, 12:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NxNW View Post

Until they provide STB's that generate test patterns from the box itself, calibrating cable (or satellite) sources will be hit or miss.

Program material is handled inconsistently from one channel to another or even from one show to another, so one calibration may not give great results in all situations. And honestly, when I'm watching a typical bit-starved low-pass-filtered frame-dropping SD encode of some old B movie, the last thing I will be complaining about is a badly "calibrated" input on my display.

Still, for those times when the source is very good, adequate bit rate is provided, and standards were followed at every point along the chain, you do want to have the basic settings in the ball park.

Generally, if you have calibrated your display using one HDMI source, you can try to use the same settings when viewing another HDMI source provided the two devices aren't using completely different output settings like "video" vs "PC" levels or RGB vs YCbCr color spaces.

A very quick and dirty technique for checking black level is often described as follows: find an HD channel showing 4:3 content surrounded by black pillar bars. Pause a scene with relatively low APL. Adjust your black level (aka "brightness") to its minimum, then raise it until the black just begins to visibly change to gray in the pillar bar area of the image. Go back to the level just before this point, the highest possible setting where the pillar bars are still completely black. Again, you may want to repeat this at different times using several different channels to make sure you didn't happen to use a non-standard broadcast for your test.

Once upon a time (as recently as May 2011), HDNet was broadcasting a 10 minute "show" displaying test patterns on weekend mornings (eg, Saturday, 6AM ET / 3AM PT) . If they ever do so again, record it, and do your best to use those patterns to calibrate. Here is one man's opinion on how to use the patterns: http://www.smartcalibration.com/hdnetpatterns.html

I am not sure I understand how you would play the "MP4 files" directly from the Comcast box? You basically have to have a source that came into your building from the cable network. Once you have it saved on your DVR, you can be pretty well assured the DVR is not going to do anything more to it.

But I don't think cable (or satellite) STB's "play back" content other than what originated from their networks.

Thank you for your ideas ... I agree with your assessment. I have not found any way to run the video test patterns from the DVR. I will stick with the calibration I performed using my blu ray player on the DVR input.

> Bill
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post #3154 of 4096 Old 01-26-2012, 07:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NxNW View Post

Until they provide STB's that generate test patterns from the box itself, calibrating cable (or satellite) sources will be hit or miss.
...
I am not sure I understand how you would play the "MP4 files" directly from the Comcast box?
...
But I don't think cable (or satellite) STB's "play back" content other than what originated from their networks.

All of my (DTV) set top boxes can connect to my DLNA/UPnP servers and can display pattern video. I know this is possible with other boxes as well. The DTV boxes don't do anything to the input signal so if your display is calibrated you will see what's coming out of the box.

By the way, Fox affiliates sometimes broadcast (OTA) calibration signals at the end of the day for those of us that can record OTA signals.
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post #3155 of 4096 Old 01-26-2012, 02:25 PM
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Do these Blu-ray test patterns have a Clipping test? Thanks.
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post #3156 of 4096 Old 01-26-2012, 03:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim McC View Post

Do these Blu-ray test patterns have a Clipping test? Thanks.

black, white, and color clipping patterns are included
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post #3157 of 4096 Old 01-26-2012, 10:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PlasmaPZ80U View Post

black, white, and color clipping patterns are included

Thanks. Is it labeled "Clipping" or something else?
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post #3158 of 4096 Old 01-27-2012, 05:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim McC View Post

Thanks. Is it labeled "Clipping" or something else?

AVSHD:

1 - Black Clipping
2 - APL Clipping
3 - White Clipping
A3 - Color Steps
A4 - Color Clipping

Buzz
THX Certified Video Calibrator

 

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post #3159 of 4096 Old 01-28-2012, 03:34 AM
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first of all a great thank you to the developers of this disk, it have always been my preferred disk.

I do know that there is not planned any new releases of this disk, I do however have a request for the developers. could you please add some patterns for 25 and 50% colors? if not does anyone know of a disk that contain these test patterns? I know severel generators got them however I would prefer a disk.

Thank you
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post #3160 of 4096 Old 01-28-2012, 03:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by visca blaugrana View Post

first of all a great thank you to the developers of this disk, it have always been my preferred disk.

I do know that there is not planned any new releases of this disk, I do however have a request for the developers. could you please add some patterns for 25 and 50% colors? if not does anyone know of a disk that contain these test patterns? I know severel generators got them however I would prefer a disk.

Thank you

If you have Chromapure that has internal test patterns for 25, 50 75 and 100% saturation of primaries and secondaries.
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post #3161 of 4096 Old 01-28-2012, 03:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by visca blaugrana View Post

first of all a great thank you to the developers of this disk, it have always been my preferred disk.

I do know that there is not planned any new releases of this disk, I do however have a request for the developers. could you please add some patterns for 25 and 50% colors? if not does anyone know of a disk that contain these test patterns? I know severel generators got them however I would prefer a disk.

Thank you

If by 25% color you mean 25% saturated, it's on the disk. IIRC choose windows in the right-side menu on the main menu, and when you get there right bottom corner.
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post #3162 of 4096 Old 01-28-2012, 03:54 AM
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sorry should have been more specific. I am looking for 100%saturated but 25% steps in amplitude.

I know chromapure got them build in the patteren generator, but was looking for a disk with the patterens
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post #3163 of 4096 Old 01-28-2012, 03:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by visca blaugrana View Post

sorry should have been more specific. I am looking for 100%saturated but 25% steps in amplitude.

I know chromapure got them build in the patteren generator, but was looking for a disk with the patterens

I know for a fact there are 75 IRE patterns for colors, since I used the Red pattern to get my Saturation setting correct. Perhaps other IREs.
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post #3164 of 4096 Old 01-28-2012, 04:02 AM
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correct but non for 25 and 50%

Quote:
Originally Posted by jouko342 View Post

I know for a fact there are 75 IRE patterns for colors, since I used the Red pattern to get my Saturation setting correct. Perhaps other IREs.

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post #3165 of 4096 Old 01-28-2012, 04:13 AM
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Originally Posted by visca blaugrana View Post

correct but non for 25 and 50%

Yep, pulled my disk and you're correct.

Out of curiosity, what would you use those for?
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post #3166 of 4096 Old 01-28-2012, 04:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jouko342 View Post

Yep, pulled my disk and you're correct.

Out of curiosity, what would you use those for?

just to determin if im better off at calibrating my cms at:

100% saturation/100% luminance
100% saturation/75% luminance

the remeasure deltaE at all levels (25,50, 75 & 100 luminance).

or as an alternative:
or 75% saturation/100% luminance
however I would not need the patterns for that.
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post #3167 of 4096 Old 01-28-2012, 11:41 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by visca blaugrana View Post

I know chromapure got them build in the patteren generator, but was looking for a disk with the patterens

If you think it's worth the time invested, there's always the option of creating your own disc. There are free tools for all of the steps from http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...4#post16837914
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post #3168 of 4096 Old 01-28-2012, 01:42 PM
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Originally Posted by alluringreality View Post

If you think it's worth the time invested, there's always the option of creating your own disc. There are free tools for all of the steps from http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...4#post16837914

thank you

that is brilliant advice, I have a question though, I have a work laptop with photoshop on it, never really used it though

on the attached picture can you confirm that its a fully saturated red picture and the amplitude is 100%, if so to get a lets say 50% amplitude can I just reduce the constantslider to 50%?

Thank you
LL
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post #3169 of 4096 Old 01-28-2012, 01:55 PM - Thread Starter
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100% in video is 235.

Here is the math for 25%:

235(100%)-16(0%)=219 levels
.25*219~55
16+55=71

I would put red at 71, green at 16, and blue at 16 - See attachment.

 

25red.zip 9.48046875k . file
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File Type: zip 25red.zip (9.5 KB, 17 views)
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post #3170 of 4096 Old 01-28-2012, 02:00 PM
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Thank You,

this is gold
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post #3171 of 4096 Old 01-28-2012, 02:26 PM - Thread Starter
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For some reason that link was messed up. I updated it with 25% red example files.
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...4#post16837914
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post #3172 of 4096 Old 01-28-2012, 02:58 PM
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Off the current topic of discussion..

I have found when using the Calman 10% gray patterns, the 0% will run for a few seconds and jump to the 109%. I then have to go all the way back, to 0 and hit pause. 10% does the same thing if you don't hit pause.
After that it seems to work ok for the rest of the stimulus. Is this an issue with my player or something on the disk that everyone deals with??
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post #3173 of 4096 Old 01-28-2012, 03:04 PM
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I have now got it sorted for all primaries, however im struggeling to find the rgb coordinates for the secondaries, I can find them if the range is 0-255 but not 236-16
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post #3174 of 4096 Old 01-28-2012, 03:14 PM - Thread Starter
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Secondaries just use two primaries, so 25% yellow would be:


red at 71, green at 71, and blue at 16
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post #3175 of 4096 Old 01-28-2012, 03:16 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by airscapes View Post

Is this an issue with my player or something on the disk that everyone deals with??

I'm not aware of any similar reports. I suppose it could be the player, but unless you verified the disc (MD5) there's always the possibility it might be the download/burn.
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post #3176 of 4096 Old 01-28-2012, 09:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alluringreality View Post

I'm not aware of any similar reports. I suppose it could be the player, but unless you verified the disc (MD5) there's always the possibility it might be the download/burn.

Well I have made the disk with the file from the Spectracal site and the one from this thread and they both do it.. so I am guessing it has to do with my hardware.. either the DVD burner or BR player.. didn't think it would have been left this way if everyone had to deal with that.


Thanks!
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post #3177 of 4096 Old 01-29-2012, 05:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alluringreality View Post

Secondaries just use two primaries, so 25% yellow would be:


red at 71, green at 71, and blue at 16

I am now running the MeGUI/avisynth process and its very time consuming, I have no plans on making any menu system just a disk with the amplitude patterns as an addition to the avs HD709, but i must say im impressed with the work done originally disk
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post #3178 of 4096 Old 01-29-2012, 06:44 AM - Thread Starter
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I'd guess my i7 averages an hour to encode a single video section from the disc. http://www.videohelp.com/tools/tsMuxeR#similar can create chapters if you put all the patterns in one video. Attached is the .avs file used to encode the CalMAN 3 step video section, and the 7200 number basically indicates 5 minutes at 24fps. If you only wanted each clip to be one minute you could change 7200 to 1440, which would speed up the encode time.

 

CW-3_Step.zip 0.4404296875k . file
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File Type: zip CW-3_Step.zip (451 Bytes, 12 views)
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post #3179 of 4096 Old 01-29-2012, 07:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alluringreality View Post

I'd guess my i7 averages an hour to encode a single video section from the disc. http://www.videohelp.com/tools/tsMuxeR#similar can create chapters if you put all the patterns in one video. Attached is the .avs file used to encode the CalMAN 3 step video section, and the 7200 number basically indicates 5 minutes at 24fps. If you only wanted each clip to be one minute you could change 7200 to 1440, which would speed up the encode time.

I had a lookthrough the example.avs file and was unable to create a script for all my .yuv files so I created 1 script for each file and then queued them all.

that way I will end up with 28 .264 files (im on an older laptop so it take some time.

I tried just with 2 files in tsMuxeR but with no luck my bluray player would not play them.

Would you recommend the following

1: Add all my .264 files in the input section of tsRemuser
2: deselect change fps (for some reason tsremuxer cant read that the .264 files have an fps at 23.976
3: set output to AVChd disk
4: click blu-ray tab set chapter to every 3 minuts. (how else would you set the chapters (I would prefere a chapter at the end of each file and not 3 minutes(as each file is not exactly 3 minutes)
5: Start muxing

this will create 2 folders " CERTIFICATE" & "BDMV"

I then burned the 2 folders via imgburn set to UDF2.6 and folder to disk mode
this disk would not play though.

any idear what im doing wrong

when doing the above windows media player clasic will not play the 00000.m2ts either I get a "createdevice failed dx9allocatorpresenter failed d3derr not available" error and it then play only the first patteren, but I cant skip to the next one either
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post #3180 of 4096 Old 01-29-2012, 01:01 PM
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I have tried a number of times now and i cannot get a playable disk out of it
can it be true that the tga file is 6mb but a 3 minute long video of the same pattern is only 362kb?
I have tried with multiAVCHD but no luck either.

I have tried both udm 2.5 and 2.6

I have attached the .264 files if you can see a problem with them

 

AMPliu.zip 166.1259765625k . file
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File Type: zip AMPliu.zip (166.1 KB, 10 views)
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