AVS HD 709 - Blu-ray & MP4 Calibration - Page 111 - AVS Forum
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post #3301 of 3986 Old 05-06-2012, 09:05 AM
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No problem regarding the .ncor files.

Regarding creating the avchd iso, have you tried the following?
In adobe encore build a bluray folder
In the output folder drop the index.bdmv in to avchd patcher 1.06 and then create a iso file from the 2 folders? This have worken or the 3 bluray players I have tried
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post #3302 of 3986 Old 05-06-2012, 09:38 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by visca blaugrana View Post

In the output folder drop the index.bdmv in to avchd patcher 1.06 and then create a iso file from the 2 folders? This have worken or the 3 bluray players I have tried

I think the reason why I changed from AVCHD Patcher to multiAVCHD re-author, is that multiAVCHD re-author correctly identifies some of the information in other folders that I knew AVCHD Patcher was not changing. Most Blu-ray players clearly don't mind when certain information is incorrect, but with the wide range of players this could potentially be used on I thought it was best to use multiAVCHD re-author to correct some of what I knew AVCHD Patcher didn't change. Personally I haven't ran across a player that AVCHD Patcher didn't work for, so it's sort of semantics that I switched to using multiAVCHD re-author to identify the files as AVCHD.
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post #3303 of 3986 Old 05-10-2012, 06:21 AM
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Hi guys,

Please I have a minor question. When setting brightness (my display is a Panasonic Plasma 50GT30) I noticed that even bar 16 (reference one) is black (from my normal viewing distance) if I go closer to the display I see some dithering on that bar. To completely get rid of that, I need to turn down one notch the brightness control on my tv.

My concern is to be getting black crush with that additional click below for the brightness control.

What do you recommend, Is it ok to keep the reference bar with a small amount of dithering or not?

Thank you!

P.S: AVS HD 709 is one of the best calibration discs I found so far!
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post #3304 of 3986 Old 05-10-2012, 07:19 AM
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You have to set brightness in the lighting environment you plan to watch in and from your seat.. people will argue back and forth but as you have said. If it is not bright enough to see from your seat you may reduce your shadow detail in the darkest areas of the video content.
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post #3305 of 3986 Old 05-11-2012, 10:33 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thebox View Post

What do you recommend, Is it ok to keep the reference bar with a small amount of dithering or not?

Commercial calibration discs generally tend toward setting brightness as low as possible. Part of why I wanted the flashing near black was mainly to avoid setting brightness too low when I had the option of changing room lighting. If you're seeing dithering at 16 you could probably use the lower setting in a dim room, as long as you can still see 19 or 20 on APL Clipping flash from your seating position. Here is the relevant note from the manual discussing the second pattern:

"Turn black-level no lower than the setting where it is possible to see 19-28 flash. Try for just barely being able to see 19 flash in a typical viewing environment."
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post #3306 of 3986 Old 05-11-2012, 11:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alluringreality View Post

Commercial calibration discs generally tend toward setting brightness as low as possible. Part of why I wanted the flashing near black was mainly to avoid setting brightness too low when I had the option of changing room lighting. If you're seeing dithering at 16 you could probably use the lower setting in a dim room, as long as you can still see 19 or 20 on APL Clipping flash from your seating position. Here is the relevant note from the manual discussing the second pattern:

"Turn black-level no lower than the setting where it is possible to see 19-28 flash. Try for just barely being able to see 19 flash in a typical viewing environment."

Hello, Doug Blackburn mentioned to me one way of setting the Black Clipping Pattern to get the correct black level is .Clip 16 , 17 barely visible, meaning, one click down and 17 disappears, one click up and 16 becomes visible or 17 becomes too obvious. If you can't make 17 barely visible set is not capable of showing this then he recommended one click lower still. I had to ask him what barely visible meant , the term is used often but where would this barely visible point land on in terms of remote ticks. So, 16 invisible, 17 barely visible. Sometimes you get where there is no pixel activity in the center of the bar but you still see an outline of the bar, this is a form of false outlining. meaning it appears like it is still there, you are looking for the pixel activity. It can be confusing i know.

.
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post #3307 of 3986 Old 05-11-2012, 11:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alluringreality View Post

Commercial calibration discs generally tend toward setting brightness as low as possible. Part of why I wanted the flashing near black was mainly to avoid setting brightness too low when I had the option of changing room lighting. If you're seeing dithering at 16 you could probably use the lower setting in a dim room, as long as you can still see 19 or 20 on APL Clipping flash from your seating position. Here is the relevant note from the manual discussing the second pattern:

"Turn black-level no lower than the setting where it is possible to see 19-28 flash. Try for just barely being able to see 19 flash in a typical viewing environment."

Hello, Doug Blackburn mentioned to me one way of setting the Black Clipping Pattern to get the correct black level is .Clip 16 , 17 barely visible, meaning, one click down and 17 disappears, one click up and 16 becomes visible or 17 becomes too obvious. If you can't make 17 barely visible set is not capable of showing this then he recommended one click lower still. I had to ask him what barely visible meant , the term is used often but where would this barely visible point land on in terms of remote ticks. So, 16 invisible, 17 barely visible. Sometimes you get where there is no pixel activity in the center of the bar but you still see an outline of the bar, this is a form of false outlining. meaning it appears like it is still there, you are looking for the pixel activity. It can be confusing i know.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Doug Blackburn
17 may or may not be visible. Some video processing will create a false outline that makes it appear 17 (and other steps) are more visible than they really are so you can't rely on the edges of the bar alone. If 17 is not visible, 18 should definitely be visible. 17 should be just BARELY visible. A lot of TVs may not have the exact right setting... you may find, for example, that the "0" setting is just a bit too dark and the +1 setting is a little too bright. Then you just have to pick one and deal with it.
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post #3308 of 3986 Old 05-12-2012, 12:03 PM
 
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WOW thanks for this! Downloading right now to try on my Xbox 360 & Sony HX850!
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post #3309 of 3986 Old 05-12-2012, 08:43 PM
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hello all.....I was looking at a few different calibration discs for my LG 55LW5600. Im not unhappy with the picture now, but figured why not see if it could be better. Was trying to decide between Spears & Munsil or the Disney WOW when I saw a link to AVSHD 709. I downloaded/burned it, but havnt looked at it yet......... and I did download the .pdf manual. But I wanted to ask if this disc needs other tools to go along with it? Like color filter, etc.? Or is it a stand alone calibration disc.
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post #3310 of 3986 Old 05-12-2012, 11:46 PM
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Originally Posted by RCD7210 View Post

hello all.....I was looking at a few different calibration discs for my LG 55LW5600. Im not unhappy with the picture now, but figured why not see if it could be better. Was trying to decide between Spears & Munsil or the Disney WOW when I saw a link to AVSHD 709. I downloaded/burned it, but havnt looked at it yet......... and I did download the .pdf manual. But I wanted to ask if this disc needs other tools to go along with it? Like color filter, etc.? Or is it a stand alone calibration disc.

You will need to use blue filter glasses unless your tv has a blue filter built in if you want to set your color/tint that way. You can also use it with a colorimeter and calibration software like calMAN or chroma pure. Those are the extras I used even I used this disk to calibrate mine.
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post #3311 of 3986 Old 05-13-2012, 05:14 AM
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You will need to use blue filter glasses unless your tv has a blue filter built in if you want to set your color/tint that way. You can also use it with a colorimeter and calibration software like calMAN or chroma pure. Those are the extras I used even I used this disk to calibrate mine.

Thanks. Dont have any of that so i guess my picture is fine the way it is for now. I did buy the Spears & Munsil so maybe that will work.
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post #3312 of 3986 Old 05-13-2012, 07:28 AM
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I have S&M, WOW, AVS Rec 709. They each bring something different and useful.

If you eventually purchase software and a meter, the AVS (free) disc is invaluable as it supports Chromapure, calMAN, and Color HCFR (shareware.)

For what you can do without a meter, you can't beat the AVS disc.
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post #3313 of 3986 Old 05-13-2012, 08:32 AM
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Originally Posted by kjgarrison View Post

I have S&M, WOW, AVS Rec 709. They each bring something different and useful.

If you eventually purchase software and a meter, the AVS (free) disc is invaluable as it supports Chromapure, calMAN, and Color HCFR (shareware.)

For what you can do without a meter, you can't beat the AVS disc.

Cool....Thanks. I dont see myself buying any equipment like that but who knows. maybe.
Other than the LG's calibration thats built in, I have never done anything like this before. Just to get a better idea of whats what.......does a meter basically just replace your eyes during adjustments? In other words, I can still go through a calibration disc without the meter? And what does the software do? Is it something you burn to a disc like the calibration program or just view on a computer and take direction from? Just trying to get an idea before doing anything. Thanks !
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post #3314 of 3986 Old 05-13-2012, 08:38 AM
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Several questions...I'm a newb so all of this is foreign to me.
I downloaded the AVCHD version, burned to disc (DVD) using Nero8, showed the correct number of bytes in the file, did get an error message saying some files couldn't be burned to the disc, showed it to burn properly, but nothing on the disc according to the blu-ray player (Panasonic DMP-BDT220). What did I do wrong?
Is there a step by step tutorial on the web for using calibration discs like this? Is there enough information in the Patterns Manual that a newb like me can follow and get decent results? Thanks for any insight you can offer. Jim.

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^^^

Not sure about Nero, don't use it.. I suggest ImgBurn

Just google imgburn


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post #3316 of 3986 Old 05-13-2012, 10:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RCD7210 View Post

Cool....Thanks. I dont see myself buying any equipment like that but who knows. maybe.
Other than the LG's calibration thats built in, I have never done anything like this before. Just to get a better idea of whats what.......does a meter basically just replace your eyes during adjustments? In other words, I can still go through a calibration disc without the meter? And what does the software do? Is it something you burn to a disc like the calibration program or just view on a computer and take direction from? Just trying to get an idea before doing anything. Thanks !

The disc and your eyes let you set brightness (aka black level), contrast, color, tint, sharpness, and aspect ratio.

A meter and calibration software let you adjust grayscale/white balance, gamma, and individual color settings to the extent that your TV offers such adjustments. Eyes are no good for this part.
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Originally Posted by RCD7210 View Post


Cool....Thanks. I dont see myself buying any equipment like that but who knows. maybe.
Other than the LG's calibration thats built in, I have never done anything like this before. Just to get a better idea of whats what.......does a meter basically just replace your eyes during adjustments? In other words, I can still go through a calibration disc without the meter? And what does the software do? Is it something you burn to a disc like the calibration program or just view on a computer and take direction from? Just trying to get an idea before doing anything. Thanks !

I thought the S&M disk came with blue filter glasses? I could be mistaken.

A colorimeter will help you set grey levels and white balance, the two most important areas of calibration besides contrast/brightness.

You can use the disc but you will be limited to color/hue/brightness/contrast and sharpness from what I remember. You won't be able to set white balance, gamma, luminance, or grey levels.
If you really want to get a good picture, a colorimeter and software package is invaluable, and it's always reusable if you get a new tv.
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post #3318 of 3986 Old 05-13-2012, 01:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kjgarrison View Post

The disc and your eyes let you set brightness (aka black level), contrast, color, tint, sharpness, and aspect ratio.

A meter and calibration software let you adjust grayscale/white balance, gamma, and individual color settings to the extent that your TV offers such adjustments. Eyes are no good for this part.

Thanks for the replies....just curious.....any recommended meters? If they arent too much I will consider one. So.....calibration software? Can I get a brief explanation of what that looks like and how it is used?
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post #3319 of 3986 Old 05-13-2012, 05:35 PM
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Originally Posted by RCD7210 View Post

Thanks. Dont have any of that so i guess my picture is fine the way it is for now. I did buy the Spears & Munsil so maybe that will work.

Yes. The S&M disc comes with a dark blue filter and a lighter blue one. I have no idea why there's 2 blue ones.
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post #3320 of 3986 Old 05-13-2012, 05:53 PM
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Thanks for the replies....just curious.....any recommended meters? If they arent too much I will consider one. So.....calibration software? Can I get a brief explanation of what that looks like and how it is used?

A lot of people like the x rite eye one pro meter and calMAN is popular calibration software.
A meter is just a device you place on your tv/projector that reads color/gamma/grey levels and tells you what adjustments to make with the controls on your tv. In a nutshell, you would install the software on a laptop, plug the meter into the laptop, place the meter on the tv, and the reading will show through the software on the laptop. It doesn't have to be a laptop, but it's far easier than dragging out a desktop pc and doing it that way (like I have to do).
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post #3321 of 3986 Old 05-14-2012, 09:48 AM
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Originally Posted by RCD7210 View Post

Thanks for the replies....just curious.....any recommended meters? If they arent too much I will consider one. So.....calibration software? Can I get a brief explanation of what that looks like and how it is used?

Color HCFR is free but has a steeper learning curve and has limited meter support.
CalMan is expensive and quite complex.
ChromaPure is the easiest to learn and use. Check the demos here:
http://www.chromapure.com/demos-gamut.asp
and:
http://www.curtpalme.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=10457
which has a good tutorial on using HCFR

The least expensive meter:
http://www.amazon.com/X-Rite-i1Displ...7012620&sr=8-1

Works with HCFR and most Cal software. Not the best but far superior to the human eye for grayscale and CIE and HSL adjustments.

Read this:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=852536

And read selected topics here:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/forum...ysprune=&f=139

Finally for the acknowledged expert go here:
http://poynton.com/Poynton-color.html

Be sure to brush up on matrix math, get an HP HP45 calculator and consume at least one Vodka Martini before tackling Poynton.

This is probably far more than you wanted but you asked for it.

I have been calibrating computer monitors and TV's for more than six years so take it from me the Info is all here on AVS, it just takes time and dedication.

The alternative, spend $250 - $400 and get and ISF trained calibrator to do it for you.

Certified HDTV junkie and AVS addict
U.S. Army FA WWII
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post #3322 of 3986 Old 05-14-2012, 01:34 PM
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I thought that this was the cheapest meter that people were using? No?
X-Rite Eye-One Display LT
It is about $60 less than the other one.

I have it sitting in my Amazon "Wish List" so if the information I have is wrong, I would like to know too.
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I'd consider simply buying one of CalMan's packages so you don't have to fight with multiple vendors if there are any incompatibilities. Software and meter bundled together:

http://store.spectracal.com/calman-overview

http://store.spectracal.com/consumer...libration.html
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post #3324 of 3986 Old 05-14-2012, 02:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nickbuol View Post

I thought that this was the cheapest meter that people were using? No?
X-Rite Eye-One Display LT
It is about $60 less than the other one.

I have it sitting in my Amazon "Wish List" so if the information I have is wrong, I would like to know too.

Yes it is the cheapest. The only difference is that the display 2 comes with additional software, not needed with calibration software like HCFR, ChromaPure etc, the meters are the same.

I should have listed the display one but could not find it in time.

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post #3325 of 3986 Old 05-14-2012, 02:38 PM
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Whew. Good to know I am still OK with my plan if the LT and HCFR for with my front projection (JVC RS-45). I am so over budget, but not afraid to learn something technically cool like calibration, so I am for a low cost option and a learning curve.

Of course, as soon as I get a meter, I will calibrating everything in site. Sort of like when a guy gets a label maker. You start labeling all sorts of things... Remotes, light switches, the family pet.....

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post #3326 of 3986 Old 05-14-2012, 02:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nickbuol View Post

I thought that this was the cheapest meter that people were using? No?
X-Rite Eye-One Display LT
It is about $60 less than the other one.

I have it sitting in my Amazon "Wish List" so if the information I have is wrong, I would like to know too.

It works in CalMAN just like a standard i1 Display 2 regardless of where you buy it.

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CalMAN Lead Developer
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post #3327 of 3986 Old 05-14-2012, 05:11 PM
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Originally Posted by catmother View Post


Color HCFR is free but has a steeper learning curve and has limited meter support.
CalMan is expensive and quite complex.
ChromaPure is the easiest to learn and use. Check the demos here:
http://www.chromapure.com/demos-gamut.asp
and:
http://www.curtpalme.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=10457
which has a good tutorial on using HCFR

The least expensive meter:
http://www.amazon.com/X-Rite-i1Displ...7012620&sr=8-1

Works with HCFR and most Cal software. Not the best but far superior to the human eye for grayscale and CIE and HSL adjustments.

Read this:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=852536

And read selected topics here:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/forum...ysprune=&f=139

Finally for the acknowledged expert go here:
http://poynton.com/Poynton-color.html

Be sure to brush up on matrix math, get an HP HP45 calculator and consume at least one Vodka Martini before tackling Poynton.

This is probably far more than you wanted but you asked for it.

I have been calibrating computer monitors and TV's for more than six years so take it from me the Info is all here on AVS, it just takes time and dedication.

The alternative, spend $250 - $400 and get and ISF trained calibrator to do it for you.

Wow !!! No wonder it costs $250 - $400. More to it than i thought. Suddenly i am thinking my picture is just fine. The Spears&Munsil disc is already on its way, so ill still take a look at that and do whatever im limited to. Thanks alot for all the info.
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post #3328 of 3986 Old 05-14-2012, 06:22 PM
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Does anyone have an older copy of AVS HD 709 around that has the small non-APL windows? I have a tricky display (65 VT30) and want to measure small windows for part of the calibration. The large standard windows are triggering ABL.

The large and small APL patterns are very useful, and more accurate than standard windows on my display in most respects, but it would be helpful to have small non-APL as well.
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post #3329 of 3986 Old 05-15-2012, 07:06 AM
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post #3330 of 3986 Old 05-15-2012, 12:53 PM
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Quote:

Thank you, that looks like exactly what I am after. I believe the windows on that disc are about the same size as Accupel windows, and the 1% APL might be interesting.
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