AVS HD 709 - Blu-ray & MP4 Calibration - Page 118 - AVS Forum
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post #3511 of 4034 Old 01-16-2013, 06:18 AM
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Originally Posted by HD-Master View Post

Joking about what? Many professionals have posted right here on this forum that 2.21,2.22 is not the de facto standard for gamma. It is dependent upon multiple factors including lighting and personal preference. If fact, some very well respected pros prefer 2.3-2.35. I have both day and night calibrations that each use different gamma settings based on the different conditions. That is not at all uncommon.

Isn't that what I was saying,it depends on what you want from a calibration and what your viewing habits are. What type of display you are working on, things like that make for a justifiable statement. Anyway I would like to see those statements made by a these "professionals" that are talking about the GT/VT50.

I could care less what most "pro" say, that means nothing. What "pro" calibrator means is they make money from calibrating, it has nothing to do with how good they are nor does the ISF/THX patch they have that leans creditably. So just because you read something that a "pro" says doesn't make it so. I am not saying that a "pro" is a bad thing or what a few of them say isn't worth reading, all I am saying is learn for yourself what works well for you, and after all isn't it why most of us get into this hobby.

When calibrating just a 10pt grayscale that's fairly easy, the harder part of a grayscale is setting your light output, then you add a CMS and have all the raw numbers in harmony, that's the real tricky part. So just because you think you have a good color temp setting or a good Gamma target doesn't mean you will have a good calibration, there are so many other factors that come into play and will make or brake a real calibration.

imo, using warm 2 will give you a good chance at getting a pink over tone to white, and as I said using a gamma target like 2.4 imo is only good if you are really increasing the contrast or like the darker picture because you sit in the dark. Or if you use the color temp natural, because that setting will cause a gamma target of 2.2 to look a bit washed out depending on how you setup your CMS. .

ss

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post #3512 of 4034 Old 01-16-2013, 07:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sillysally View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by HD-Master View Post

Joking about what? Many professionals have posted right here on this forum that 2.21,2.22 is not the de facto standard for gamma. It is dependent upon multiple factors including lighting and personal preference. If fact, some very well respected pros prefer 2.3-2.35. I have both day and night calibrations that each use different gamma settings based on the different conditions. That is not at all uncommon.

Isn't that what I was saying,it depends on what you want from a calibration and what your viewing habits are. What type of display you are working on, things like that make for a justifiable statement. Anyway I would like to see those statements made by a these "professionals" that are talking about the GT/VT50.

I could care less what most "pro" say, that means nothing. What "pro" calibrator means is they make money from calibrating, it has nothing to do with how good they are nor does the ISF/THX patch they have that leans creditably. So just because you read something that a "pro" says doesn't make it so. I am not saying that a "pro" is a bad thing or what a few of them say isn't worth reading, all I am saying is learn for yourself what works well for you, and after all isn't it why most of us get into this hobby.

When calibrating just a 10pt grayscale that's fairly easy, the harder part of a grayscale is setting your light output, then you add a CMS and have all the raw numbers in harmony, that's the real tricky part. So just because you think you have a good color temp setting or a good Gamma target doesn't mean you will have a good calibration, there are so many other factors that come into play and will make or brake a real calibration.

imo, using warm 2 will give you a good chance at getting a pink over tone to white, and as I said using a gamma target like 2.4 imo is only good if you are really increasing the contrast or like the darker picture because you sit in the dark. Or if you use the color temp natural, because that setting will cause a gamma target of 2.2 to look a bit washed out depending on how you setup your CMS. .

ss

By professional...I mean Tom Huffman, Chad B, Kevin Miller, D-Nice, etc. Unless they don't meet your standards. rolleyes.gif Both are perfectly good options when used in the right environments. I use 2.2 for day and 2.3-2.35 for night. My original question was about a pattern, no need for you critique others gamma settings when you yourself still have a lot to learn.

http://www.chromapure.com/colorscience-gamma.asp
Quote:
The gamma of your display should be between 2.2 and 2.35.
Quote:
I recommend a gamma in the 2.2-2.35 range.

http://www.spectracal.com/Documents/3_Gamma_2.0_2.2or2.4.pdf
Quote:
The intended appearance for an HD master is obtained through a 2.4-power function, to a display having reference white at 100 nt, with 1 lx ambient, and 1% surround

http://www.tweaktv.com/articles/elite-pro65x5fd.html
Quote:
As part of a professional calibration, a qualified technician can dial the display into delivering a smooth 2.3 curve for very well controlled home theater like environments by carefully manipulating contrast and backlight settings in conjunction with the five selectable gamma settings in the Advanced Menu.


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post #3513 of 4034 Old 01-16-2013, 09:11 AM
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Originally Posted by HD-Master View Post

By professional...I mean Tom Huffman, Chad B, Kevin Miller, D-Nice, etc. Unless they don't meet your standards. rolleyes.gif Both are perfectly good options when used in the right environments. I use 2.2 for day and 2.3-2.35 for night. My original question was about a pattern, no need for you critique others gamma settings when you yourself still have a lot to learn.

http://www.chromapure.com/colorscience-gamma.asp

http://www.spectracal.com/Documents/3_Gamma_2.0_2.2or2.4.pdf
http://www.tweaktv.com/articles/elite-pro65x5fd.html

Maybe you should re-read my reply what you where asking about and you will see I was only trying to help you. http://www.avsforum.com/t/948496/avs-hd-709-blu-ray-mp4-calibration/3480#post_22835584

You are the the guy that started in on me, Your the guy that is having a problem with your free calibration software and that stated you would spend the money and get Calman if the free calibration software you are using wasn't fixed. Your the guy that on the same page that is telling us that alluringreality (AVSHD) windows are to large. But where is your proof, don't forget you are using a entry grade meter that you have only had for a week or two, and your using somebody's profile from a I1pro. Let me tell you that I profile my own C6 with my own I1pro2 on my VT50 using my copy of CalMAN 5 Enthusiast to do the profiling. But yet you are telling us that AVSHD windows are to large. btw when some one is talking about backlight in reference to a TV, that usually means a LCD not a plasma.

Sorry but none of those examples are talking about a VT/GT50, they are speaking in general terms and a range of Gamma target points on a range of display types. As I said that means nothing when we are talking about the VT/GT50. So I am sorry but that's not what I ask for and no those links are not that helpful when you are talking about the VT/GT50.
Tom and Kevin are well thought of Calibrators as is D-Nice, Chad is new on the seen (so to speak) so I don't know much about how he calibrates a VT50, except one or two calibration reports but no setting to go along with those reports. ..
As far as D-Nice goes, he was talking about using 2.4 to get a end gamma of about 2.22, but that was before Panasonic fixed the Lum settings.. D-Nice is the one that taught me how to calibrate about 4 years ago and kept helping me to get to where I am now, he even got UMR to come to my house free of charge to show me some of his tricks and help me with CMS and getting it right.He is the one that told me to get my I1pro and Calman 3 when I first started out.

As far as Calibration go I will put up (not just talk) the ISF VT50 calibration/settings I have posted, against anyone of the guys you are talking about and let them better the one I posted. Or you for that matter, that is when you learn how to calibrate. However I guess you could post your raw numbers/charts on your grayscale calibration and we can compare that. btw about using warm2 D-Nice was the guy that told me about the pinkish over tones and yes he was right.

Of-course we all keep learning, if not then that is when we stop improving.

Anyway I wish you the best of luck in learning how to calibrate, just keep your cool and in two or three years from now you will get there. wink.gif

The End.

ss

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post #3514 of 4034 Old 01-16-2013, 09:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sillysally View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by HD-Master View Post

By professional...I mean Tom Huffman, Chad B, Kevin Miller, D-Nice, etc. Unless they don't meet your standards. rolleyes.gif Both are perfectly good options when used in the right environments. I use 2.2 for day and 2.3-2.35 for night. My original question was about a pattern, no need for you critique others gamma settings when you yourself still have a lot to learn.

http://www.chromapure.com/colorscience-gamma.asp

http://www.spectracal.com/Documents/3_Gamma_2.0_2.2or2.4.pdf
http://www.tweaktv.com/articles/elite-pro65x5fd.html

Maybe you should re-read my reply what you where asking about and you will see I was only trying to help you. http://www.avsforum.com/t/948496/avs-hd-709-blu-ray-mp4-calibration/3480#post_22835584

You are the the guy that started in on me, Your the guy that is having a problem with your free calibration software and that stated you would spend the money and get Calman if the free calibration software you are using wasn't fixed. Your the guy that on the same page that is telling us that alluringreality (AVSHD) windows are to large. But where is your proof, don't forget you are using a entry grade meter that you have only had for a week or two, and your using somebody's profile from a I1pro. Let me tell you that I profile my own C6 with my own I1pro2 on my VT50 using my copy of CalMAN 5 Enthusiast to do the profiling. But yet you are telling us that AVSHD windows are to large. btw when some one is talking about backlight in reference to a TV, that usually means a LCD not a plasma.

Sorry but none of those examples are talking about a VT/GT50, they are speaking in general terms and a range of Gamma target points on a range of display types. As I said that means nothing when we are talking about the VT/GT50. So I am sorry but that's not what I ask for and no those links are not that helpful when you are talking about the VT/GT50.
Tom and Kevin are well thought of Calibrators as is D-Nice, Chad is new on the seen (so to speak) so I don't know much about how he calibrates a VT50, except one or two calibration reports but no setting to go along with those reports. ..
As far as D-Nice goes, he was talking about using 2.4 to get a end gamma of about 2.22, but that was before Panasonic fixed the Lum settings.. D-Nice is the one that taught me how to calibrate about 4 years ago and kept helping me to get to where I am now, he even got UMR to come to my house free of charge to show me some of his tricks and help me with CMS and getting it right.He is the one that told me to get my I1pro and Calman 3 when I first started out.

As far as Calibration go I will put up (not just talk) the ISF VT50 calibration/settings I have posted, against anyone of the guys you are talking about and let them better the one I posted. Or you for that matter, that is when you learn how to calibrate. However I guess you could post your raw numbers/charts on your grayscale calibration and we can compare that. btw about using warm2 D-Nice was the guy that told me about the pinkish over tones and yes he was right.

Of-course we all keep learning, if not then that is when we stop improving.

Anyway I wish you the best of luck in learning how to calibrate, just keep your cool and in two or three years from now you will get there. wink.gif

The End.

ss

Looks like I struck a nerve.

I am no longer using HCFR.

No, I am not using someone else's profile.

Yes, the windows on the AVS disk are too large for plasma. 10% or smaller yield better results. There is an entire thread discussing this. This is why I use the GCD disk. I believe the AVS windows are larger than 10%, but I haven't looked it in a long time. I'll have to check.

I never made reference to backlight.

A gamma target of 2.3-2.35 is perfectly fine in a dark environment. I understand that you may not agree with that. I use 2.2 for day settings.

Chad is not new to the scene.

I am well aware of my own inexperience and room for improvement.


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post #3515 of 4034 Old 01-16-2013, 11:23 AM
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It would be nice to have a chroma multiburst pattern and chroma zone plate, ala the S&M test disc, incorporated into a future version of AVS HD 709 to test color resolution, even though it is much less important to our perception compared to luminance resolution.

Anyone here know where I can download such patterns? Unfortunately there is some video game called "chroma multiburst", so any google searching I attempted was swamped with results for that! tongue.gif

In A/V reproduction accuracy, there is no concept of "accounting for taste". We don't "pick" the level of bass any more than we get to pick the ending of a play. High fidelity is an unbiased, neutral, exact copy (or "reproduction") of the original source's tonal balance, timing, dynamics, etc..

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post #3516 of 4034 Old 01-16-2013, 03:04 PM
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I found one in PNG or Bitmap form, if anyone else cares:
http://www.tamuz.tv/downloadframe5.htm

In A/V reproduction accuracy, there is no concept of "accounting for taste". We don't "pick" the level of bass any more than we get to pick the ending of a play. High fidelity is an unbiased, neutral, exact copy (or "reproduction") of the original source's tonal balance, timing, dynamics, etc..

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post #3517 of 4034 Old 01-16-2013, 03:27 PM
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Here are also some general "rule-of-thumb" recommendations we recommend:


Bright Room: 50-60 fL

Dim Room: 40-50 fL

Theater Room: 30-40 fL

Theater Room Projector: 14-30 fL


This of course, measured at 100 IRE luminance level.

Where do these numbers come from? Is there a reason for them being so bright? Just replacing my old CRT with a projector. Old CRT (RPTV) was 7.71 fL at 100 IRE, the new projector is a little higher than that (reflected) in low mode and at about 12 in the high mode. Even low mode seems 'plenty bright' to me, but that could just be normalcy bias.
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post #3518 of 4034 Old 01-16-2013, 04:30 PM
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I know this is a stupid question but I seriously can not find it anywhere because this thread consistently comes up. I have an HDTV and need to calibrate it as the picture is just off. No matter what I do it still has something off with it. Maybe it's because I'm comparing it to my PC (same resolution lower size so quality looks better?) but it still looks weird. Anyway, I need help configuring my HDTV when it's hooked up to my PC. I want to alter the settings but can't seem to find a guide and this guide seems to be made for the Blurary Players, DVD, and Xbox 360. Can anyone point me in the right direction of what to do. Thanks!
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post #3519 of 4034 Old 01-16-2013, 05:21 PM
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I want to alter the settings but can't seem to find a guide and this guide seems to be made for the Blurary Players, DVD, and Xbox 360. Can anyone point me in the right direction of what to do. Thanks!

In order to calibrate the display, you need to send specific test patterns to the screen. You need some device to be able to do that, what playback devices do you have that you can hook up to it?
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post #3520 of 4034 Old 01-17-2013, 03:29 AM
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Hi. I have a 2010 plasma panasonic and last night I tried AVS HD 709. The disc was played through my denon blu ray player and was recorded in AVCHD. I use the viewing mode “cinema” on the TV and I just couldn't figure out what patterns should I use to setup red green blue gain and red green blu cutoff . These features are in advanced configurations and they make a huge difference in picture quality. Thanks in advance.
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post #3521 of 4034 Old 01-17-2013, 03:39 AM
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I know this is a stupid question but I seriously can not find it anywhere because this thread consistently comes up. I have an HDTV and need to calibrate it as the picture is just off. No matter what I do it still has something off with it. Maybe it's because I'm comparing it to my PC (same resolution lower size so quality looks better?) but it still looks weird. Anyway, I need help configuring my HDTV when it's hooked up to my PC. I want to alter the settings but can't seem to find a guide and this guide seems to be made for the Blurary Players, DVD, and Xbox 360. Can anyone point me in the right direction of what to do. Thanks!

You can download the disk to your computer, (.mp4) should be fine and play it using any current video playback software. The guide simply introduces you to each pattern and how to use them regardless of source.

Insert pithy comment here
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post #3522 of 4034 Old 01-17-2013, 08:12 AM
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You can download the disk to your computer, (.mp4) should be fine and play it using any current video playback software. The guide simply introduces you to each pattern and how to use them regardless of source.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BartMan01 View Post

In order to calibrate the display, you need to send specific test patterns to the screen. You need some device to be able to do that, what playback devices do you have that you can hook up to it?

So using my laptop (I use it as my HTPC until I buy a real one), is ok as the playback device to run the patterns? Wouldn't the calibration then be player specific based on what player I used to run the calibration?
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post #3523 of 4034 Old 01-17-2013, 01:40 PM
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So using my laptop (I use it as my HTPC until I buy a real one), is ok as the playback device to run the patterns? Wouldn't the calibration then be player specific based on what player I used to run the calibration?

Yes, if you intend to use different software for watching TV and playing movies. Use different TV presets banks for different players.. e.g., calibrate once for video playback using TV cinema settings.. for TV watching you may want to use the Standard. If your TV allows custom banks, even better.

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post #3524 of 4034 Old 01-17-2013, 03:58 PM
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Wouldn't the calibration then be player specific based on what player I used to run the calibration?

That is always going to be the case. Unless you can get professional grade gear that is calibrated itself to a reference, your calibration will only be as good as the playback device used.

Using a PC as the calibration source can be a little tricky because it is harder to be sure that it and the display are set for the same levels since there are multiple layers involved. If your PC is outputting 0-255 but the TV is expecting 16-235 (or the other way around), things won't be right especially when feeding video from any other source.
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post #3525 of 4034 Old 01-17-2013, 05:27 PM - Thread Starter
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I just couldn't figure out what patterns should I use to setup red green blue gain and red green blu cutoff .

Sounds like grayscale controls. Generally grayscale is adjusted by using measurement software (ColorHCFR, CalMAN, ChromaPure) and a meter.


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post #3526 of 4034 Old 01-18-2013, 05:06 AM
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Thanks. So I think it's better let them in “0” (default value) since I don't have and don't know how to use any of these software.
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post #3527 of 4034 Old 01-18-2013, 10:08 AM
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Hi everyone,

I have a question about calibrating with/for 709 material... I have a PS3 and a XB360 and I use them for both movie playback and gaming purposes. I calibrated the display for both systems with AVS HD 709 (and DVE HD Basics blu ray disc also in PS3), with both consoles outputting Ycbcr signal. But when I play games both systems output full range RGB to the display. My question is... is it possible to calibrate with AVS HD 709 for gaming? My first guess was to set the console to playback AVS through RGB full range, but I don't know if that really works for color accuracy.

My second question is... I also watch DVDs with the PS3. Is there a similar tool like AVS HD 709 for SD material?

Thanks for answering.
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post #3528 of 4034 Old 01-18-2013, 01:21 PM
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Hi everyone,

I have a question about calibrating with/for 709 material... I have a PS3 and a XB360 and I use them for both movie playback and gaming purposes. I calibrated the display for both systems with AVS HD 709 (and DVE HD Basics blu ray disc also in PS3), with both consoles outputting Ycbcr signal. But when I play games both systems output full range RGB to the display. My question is... is it possible to calibrate with AVS HD 709 for gaming? My first guess was to set the console to playback AVS through RGB full range, but I don't know if that really works for color accuracy.

My second question is... I also watch DVDs with the PS3. Is there a similar tool like AVS HD 709 for SD material?

Thanks for answering.

The X360 can output 'YCbCr709' for everything and the PS3 can do YCbCr for BD/DVD and RGB Limited for games. No need to play games in RGB full range on either console... there is no benefit to doing so unless your display is a PC monitor and not a TV.
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post #3529 of 4034 Old 01-19-2013, 03:45 AM
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Thank you very much for the quick answer, it was very helpfull smile.gif
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post #3530 of 4034 Old 01-21-2013, 03:03 AM
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Little update:

Adjusting my TV with "Flashing Primary Colors" I firstly approached saturation and hue, but I couldn't get accuracy with the green and red filters (from DVE Essentials) until I went through "user color" settings menu and modified RGB values for each red, green, blue, cyan, magenta and yellow. I went to do the same with my PC... and the question is... how can I do the same in my PC with the media playback software? I have hue and saturation controls everywhere (monitor, software, drivers), but the green and red filters show no consistency when looking through them. Is this is a matter of lacking the same controls as the TV has? I'm leaving color space conversion and levels aside because they are not the issue as much as I can tell.

I'm going to search for more advanced playback software but...
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post #3531 of 4034 Old 01-21-2013, 06:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by panetesan2k6 View Post

Little update:

Adjusting my TV with "Flashing Primary Colors" I firstly approached saturation and hue, but I couldn't get accuracy with the green and red filters (from DVE Essentials) until I went through "user color" settings menu and modified RGB values for each red, green, blue, cyan, magenta and yellow. I went to do the same with my PC... and the question is... how can I do the same in my PC with the media playback software? I have hue and saturation controls everywhere (monitor, software, drivers), but the green and red filters show no consistency when looking through them. Is this is a matter of lacking the same controls as the TV has? I'm leaving color space conversion and levels aside because they are not the issue as much as I can tell.

I'm going to search for more advanced playback software but...

As far as doing the same with your PC, unless your monitor has CMS controls (like the Asus PA246Q) or something similar, you're kinda SOL.

I think the ATI and NVIDIA control panels allow adjusting red, green and blue to some extent... Even creating an ICC profile for your monitor won't do enough.

Current HT setup:

Samsung UN65F6300 65" LCD HDTV, Polk CS20 Center, 2x Polk Monitor 75T Fronts, 2x Polk TSI300 Backs, Polk PSW110 Subwoofer.

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post #3532 of 4034 Old 01-21-2013, 09:27 AM
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Thanks for your answer. After posting I dedicated a couple of hours to learn about this matter and ran into this:

http://sunmaiblog.wordpress.com/2010/10/06/calibrate-htpc-for-optimal-video-output/

After thoroughly reading it five or six times biggrin.gif , I'm amazed and a bit puzzled since I used to believe that computers had a better go as playback equipment. As a matter of fact, I've been feeding hi-res mkv's to my TV for a long time without much concern. Little I knew! Now I'm trying to understand how to achieve some accuracy but it's hard as it gets for me.
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post #3533 of 4034 Old 01-21-2013, 07:17 PM
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Have been having fun calibrating my Samsung ES8000 with the Disney WOW disc and the AVS 709 disk. Have almost got it to a point where I am happy but a couple of things troubling me:

Setup is HTPC with Intel HD Graphics (set to output YCbCr) via HDMI. Tv set to PC mode so a lot of settings like Colour/Tint disabled but all enabled when in 24p mode playing videos. Calibrated on 24ps setting.

1) On the AVS Colour Steps test, the last 4 bright green bars (near 235) are blending together. Nothing I do will make them distinguishable from each other. All the other colours are fine.
2) The Disney WOW Colour/Tint (46/50) setting are slightly different from AVS (48/50)using both the blue filter and RGB only mode. Dont get it.
3) On the multi colour flashing pattern for calibrating Colour/Tint, Blue panel is perfect but Red and Green are slightly off. I use the TV's RGB mode.

Any ideas anyone?

Thx
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post #3534 of 4034 Old 01-22-2013, 12:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mombasa123 View Post

Have been having fun calibrating my Samsung ES8000 with the Disney WOW disc and the AVS 709 disk. Have almost got it to a point where I am happy but a couple of things troubling me:

Setup is HTPC with Intel HD Graphics (set to output YCbCr) via HDMI. Tv set to PC mode so a lot of settings like Colour/Tint disabled but all enabled when in 24p mode playing videos. Calibrated on 24ps setting.

1) On the AVS Colour Steps test, the last 4 bright green bars (near 235) are blending together. Nothing I do will make them distinguishable from each other. All the other colours are fine.
2) The Disney WOW Colour/Tint (46/50) setting are slightly different from AVS (48/50)using both the blue filter and RGB only mode. Dont get it.
3) On the multi colour flashing pattern for calibrating Colour/Tint, Blue panel is perfect but Red and Green are slightly off. I use the TV's RGB mode.

Any ideas anyone?

Thx

I'm no expert but... I think if you put your TV y "PC mode" it will be expecting RGB 4:4:4 and you are probably feeding it YCbCr 4:2:2. If you want to stick to "PC Mode", my advice would be setting the HTPC to RGB 4:4:4 and using RGB output mode in the player with HQ conversion from YUV to RGB. In the other hand, I would set the HTPC to YCbCr 4:2:2 and set the TV to "normal".

About the color/tint adjustments, I only got that right when I went into "user color" and modified the RGB values for each color.

EDIT: I think you should read this:

http://sunmaiblog.wordpress.com/2010/10/06/calibrate-htpc-for-optimal-video-output/
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post #3535 of 4034 Old 01-22-2013, 01:29 AM
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ooh thx - great link - will read through.

Just to note - the samsung switches to 'normal' mode when fed video playing at 24p (movies) or 50hz (TV shows) so the YCbCr output is theorically correct. Will report back.
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post #3536 of 4034 Old 01-22-2013, 11:41 AM
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I have been attempting to calibrate my Panasonic plasma 65VT50 using the AVS709 AVCHD version burned to DVD. I am using a Panasonic DMP-BDT500 BD player. I would really like to be able to calibrate my display while using its 96hz mode. However, the tv's 96 hz mode can only be accessed when receiving 24p content. I noticed that the AVS disc does not play back at 24p when the Panasonic player is set to output 24p, so for now this means I am using my tv's 60hz mode. Does anyone know if the AVS disc is authored at 24 frames per second, or 30? If I get the AVS disc burned to an actual BD (the HDMV version) is it capable of being played back at 24p?

I noticed the DVE HD Basics BD does indeed play back at 24p, I was hoping the same could be possible for the AVS disc.
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post #3537 of 4034 Old 01-22-2013, 12:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ShowbizPizza View Post

I have been attempting to calibrate my Panasonic plasma 65VT50 using the AVS709 AVCHD version burned to DVD. I am using a Panasonic DMP-BDT500 BD player. I would really like to be able to calibrate my display while using its 96hz mode. However, the tv's 96 hz mode can only be accessed when receiving 24p content. I noticed that the AVS disc does not play back at 24p when the Panasonic player is set to output 24p, so for now this means I am using my tv's 60hz mode. Does anyone know if the AVS disc is authored at 24 frames per second, or 30? If I get the AVS disc burned to an actual BD (the HDMV version) is it capable of being played back at 24p?

I noticed the DVE HD Basics BD does indeed play back at 24p, I was hoping the same could be possible for the AVS disc.

There is reportedly NO visible difference in 60hz or 24hz even using a meter to measure the output. Take a read here.
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1445226/chad-bs-custom-test-patterns/0_100#post_22774425

Doug

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post #3538 of 4034 Old 01-22-2013, 10:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mombasa123 View Post

Have been having fun calibrating my Samsung ES8000 with the Disney WOW disc and the AVS 709 disk. Have almost got it to a point where I am happy but a couple of things troubling me:

Setup is HTPC with Intel HD Graphics (set to output YCbCr) via HDMI. Tv set to PC mode so a lot of settings like Colour/Tint disabled but all enabled when in 24p mode playing videos. Calibrated on 24ps setting.

1) On the AVS Colour Steps test, the last 4 bright green bars (near 235) are blending together. Nothing I do will make them distinguishable from each other. All the other colours are fine.
2) The Disney WOW Colour/Tint (46/50) setting are slightly different from AVS (48/50)using both the blue filter and RGB only mode. Dont get it.
3) On the multi colour flashing pattern for calibrating Colour/Tint, Blue panel is perfect but Red and Green are slightly off. I use the TV's RGB mode.

Any ideas anyone?

Thx
Quote:
Originally Posted by panetesan2k6 View Post

I'm no expert but... I think if you put your TV y "PC mode" it will be expecting RGB 4:4:4 and you are probably feeding it YCbCr 4:2:2. If you want to stick to "PC Mode", my advice would be setting the HTPC to RGB 4:4:4 and using RGB output mode in the player with HQ conversion from YUV to RGB. In the other hand, I would set the HTPC to YCbCr 4:2:2 and set the TV to "normal".

About the color/tint adjustments, I only got that right when I went into "user color" and modified the RGB values for each color.

EDIT: I think you should read this:

http://sunmaiblog.wordpress.com/2010/10/06/calibrate-htpc-for-optimal-video-output/

Ok, so figured it out and posting here if others have same difficulties.

After reading this link : http://sunmaiblog.wordpress.com/2010/10/06/calibrate-htpc-for-optimal-video-output/ I went back to basics. Set my HTPC to output RGB at a fixed 60p so that the TV stayed in PC mode. Hey presto, the blending greens were not blending anymore – all colours had perfect stepping. Also noticed that the banding I used to have on the Greyscale pattern (which I had ignored before but only realized why the bands cuz of above link) was also much better.

However the setup above left me with a few problems :

1) Colour and Tint were slightly off on the Flashing Blue pattern.
2) Movies etc are filmed at 24p(ish) so not ideal to output at 60Hz to TV.
3) Also all the dynamic and motion control stuff was disabled in PC mode.

Wasn’t happy with this so played around a bit more. Set the HTPC to output 24p with everything else the same. And wow, hey presto suddenly the Colour steps and everything else was perfect. All the previous things I had noticed like Colour clipping suddenly were spot on. Note, the TV recognized that video was being output and automatically switched out of PC mode and into normal mode I guess. Very smart Samsung.

To cut a long story short turns out the culprit was PowerDVD playing the AVS BluRay. It has a setting to switch to the frame rate of the source automatically (in this case 24p). Everytime it does that the TV info shows 24p. But it seems to be a different 24p to the Graphics card 24p. I have no idea. And that was the reason for my issues.

To confirm, I played the MP4 AVS tests through XBMC which also switches automatically. That was perfect too and identical to the BluRay graphics card 24p setting setup.

So next, I decided to recalibrate everything since I had switched the card to RGB (limited btw as the Intel clips). Brightness/Contrast no change to YCbCr but Tint was slightly off on Blue and both colour/tint off on Green and Red flashing patterns. Could get any of them spot on.

Switched to YCbCr and everything was spot on 

So I think for a setup like mine (ie Intel HD Graphics), YCbCr is the way to go. BTW if anybody knows what the ‘IT Content’ in Monitor setting does please advise. Can’t find anything anywhere about it.

Very happy bunny now. Well sort off – I have had a lot of fun calibrating and now there’s nothing to do. Guess will have to sit down and watch stuff now 

Anyways, for reference here are my settings :

Intel HD 2500 : YCbCr on. IT Content on.
XBMC : Set to auto adjust framerate

Samsung 55ES8000 :
HDMI Mode : PC

Picture Menu:
Mode: Standard
Backlight: 14 I like a bright picture. Changing the setting doesn’t seem to impact the calibration unless set to very low and that’s ridiculous.
Contrast: 85 Above 95 I had reds blending in the colour steps test although the actual APL clipping was fine. 90 was good for all but now set at 86 to be safe. Not sure how to get it exactly right.
Brightness: 48
Sharpness: 2 On my HTPC it seems completely redundant. Plus read that HD material should not require it. But didn’t want to turn it off completely so set at 2.
Color: 48 Perfect match on Blue/Green/Red Flashing using built in RGB mode.
Tint: G50/R50



Screen Adjustment submenu:

Picture Size: Screen Fit 

Position: [no change]


3D submenu: N/A



Advanced Settings submenu:
Dynamic Contrast: Low It’s there so I figure have to use it 
Black Tone: Dark Crushes the blacks fractionally but I prefer the darker black and lose a fractional amount of detail. Note all calibration was done without this and Dynamic Contrast. I turned them on after watching some Movie clips with dark scenes. Went back to the Disney Wow disc and the +1% black was not visible anymore. May change it to off later.

Flesh Tone: 0
RGB Only Mode: Off

Color Space: Auto
Color Space submenu: Disabled
White Balance submenu:
Auto
10p White Balance: Off [grayed out]
Gamma: 0
Expert Pattern: Off
xvYCC: Disabled
Motion Lighting: Off [grayed out]
Black Enhancer: Off

Picture Options submenu:

Color Tone: Standard I prefer it to the Warm settings
Digital Noise Filter: Off Will lose detail for HD video but have it on Auto for TV etc.
MPEG Noise Filter: Off

HDMI Black Level: Disabled YCbCr setting on Graphics card disables this but had it set on Low (Limited RGB source) for RGB
Film Mode: Disabled

Auto Motion Plus: Standard (personal pref. set to Clear otherwise). I like it.
LED Motion Plus: Off

System/ECO Solution:
ECO Sensor: OFF

I haven’t done the CE Dimming workaround yet – am ok with it thus far.

Cheers

*EDIT* Scratch the bit about PowerDVD using a diff 24p from the video card. I checked again to make sure this was the case. It wasn’t. When I was playing around, I kept on shutting down PowerDVD, changing frame rate on graphics card and then starting PowerDVD and doing a ‘Resume’ instead of ‘Start Again’. For some reason the colours didn’t clip but if I restart the colour clipping test they still clipped. So I think issue is PowerDVD or a combination of the HTPC BluRay player/PowerDVD. Given up on that now.

Also note that the AVS Colour/Tint Setting played on BluRay/PowerDVD (46/50:50) are diff from the AVS MP4 (48//50:50). Disney WOW disc is the same as AVS BluRay/PowerDVD Combo.

Plus, the various colour evaluation tests are a lot worse on the AVS BluRay/PowerDVD combo whereas the AVS MP4 /XBMC is spot on. Shame but since I do most of my viewing on XBMC its fine
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post #3539 of 4034 Old 01-23-2013, 07:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mombasa123 View Post

After reading this link : http://sunmaiblog.wordpress.com/2010/10/06/calibrate-htpc-for-optimal-video-output/ I went back to basics. Set my HTPC to output RGB at a fixed 60p so that the TV stayed in PC mode. Hey presto, the blending greens were not blending anymore – all colours had perfect stepping. Also noticed that the banding I used to have on the Greyscale pattern (which I had ignored before but only realized why the bands cuz of above link) was also much better.

Switched to YCbCr and everything was spot on 

Intel HD 2500 : YCbCr on. IT Content on.

I'm confused - YOu say you switching to RGB fixed the problems you had with YCbCr but then go on to say that YCbCr is fine.

The sunmaiblog post also seems to contradict itself on this point - one moment it seems to be stating that RBG 0-255 if the 'best' way to go and the next YCbCr 16-235 is 'best'.
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post #3540 of 4034 Old 01-23-2013, 11:11 AM
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I'm having trouble correctly setting the white level on my Panasonic 55ST50 using my PS3. My PS3 is connected directly to the TV via HDMI. I'm using D-nice's reference settings for the ST50, so all unnecessary/detrimental features are turned off.

I'm using the following PS3 Settings:

Video Settings

BD Internet: "Allow"
BD/DVD Cinema Conversion: "Automatic"
BD/DVD Upscaler: "Normal"
BD/DVD Video Output Format (HDMI): "Y Pb/Cb Pr/Cr"
BD 1080p 24Hz Output: "Automatic"
BD/DVD Dynamic Range Control: "Off"
BD/DVD Audio Output Format (HDMI): "Linear PCM"
BD/DVD Audio Output Format (Optical Digital): "Bitstream"

Display Settings

RGB Full Range (HDMI): "Limited"
Y Pb/Cb Pr/Cr Super-White (HDMI): "On"

Using the White Clipping screen, even if I set the contrast to 100, I only see the bars above 242 flash. If I set it in the ideal 75-85 range all the bars flash. What's going on? I'd appreciate some help.
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