AVS HD 709 - Blu-ray & MP4 Calibration - Page 124 - AVS Forum
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Display Calibration > AVS HD 709 - Blu-ray & MP4 Calibration
diofree's Avatar diofree 10:51 AM 07-22-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by myoda View Post

The original poster wanted to know:
"Hey.
I recently purchased the Disney WoW Calibration Disk and have yet to run it but wonder how that and this would compare.

Would one be superior to the other? If so, which one would you guys recommend! Thanks!"

Is the AVS709 HD disc better than the Disney WOW disc? The answer depends on the level of understanding of how a television reproduces color, and what defines a good looking, accurate picture. Obviously, a professional ISF calibration is the best way have your set optimized, but, for the average end user who wants a better looking picture, either disc will deliver a well balanced image. Or, you could spring for a colorimeter and Calman software for even better results.The advantage to the AVS disc, is that it is a FREE download.

A superior disc, that also includes basic calibration for 3D, is the Spears and Munsil HD Benchmark 2nd Edition:

http://www.spearsandmunsil.com/portfolio/hd-benchmark-2-0/

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00CKWI13O/ref=as_li_tf_tl?ie=UTF8&camp=1789&creative=9325&creativeASIN=B00CKWI13O&linkCode=as2&tag=speaandmuns-20

Thanks for chiming in Yoda, I also figured zillch had no idea what the disk was when he replied. My question had nothing to do with the free clips of disney movies, they concerned the calibration tools which are the focus of the disk. I tried the disk on the wknd and may try the free files now.

m. zillch's Avatar m. zillch 12:02 PM 07-22-2013

I've collected a good number of calibration discs over a couple of decades on Laser Disc, DVD, and Blu-ray and every single one (except this AVS HD 709 disc), in addition to test patterns, includes demo scenes that ARE intended to be used to judge things such as color, tint, etc., in conjunction with the more rigorous test pattern sequences. Static and/or motion images of real world items, often including food, people, actual scenes from movies, etc., are used in the following nine calibration discs:

 

- Mitsubishi Gallery Demonstration Test Laser Disc

- Reference Recordings LD-101  "A Video Standard" Laser Disc

- Joe Kane's "Video Essentials" Laser Disc

 

- Avia DVD

- Digital Video Essentials [DVD]

- THX Optimizer [DVDs]

 

- Digital Video Essentials [Blu-ray}

- Silicon Optix HD HQV Benchmark [Blu-ray]

- Spears and Munsil HD Benchmark [Blu-ray]

 

Such images are quite common in the calibration world and I find them to be quite useful in confirming that the other pattern adjustments went well. These images would, however, be completely worthless if instead of using real world items they instead substituted an artist's painting, CGI, or cartoon images, which have no established, correct color because they are simply some arbitrary selection of color chosen from an artist's pallete, by whim, and aren't real items/people we can reference.

 

Example: "Shrek's skin-tone looked way off to me!" Um, Shrek doesn't exist, so how on earth would you know what exact color of green he should be, buddy ?!

 

Since I'm sure Disney clearly explains on their disc that their included demo scenes are NOT to be used in the way that such demo sequences are on all other video calibration discs that I have just listed  [at least not the majority of their selected scenes, since they are cartoon images], I don't have a problem with their inclusion on the WOW disc. They did not, in my opinion, clearly state this in the linked to Amazon ad (I assume written by Disney), however, when they mentioned the "HD demonstration clips" included on their calibration, plus other stuff, disc:

 

Quote:

The Disney WOW World of Wonder Disc is a definitive "how to" guide for in-home High Definition (HD) optimization of home entertainment systems featuring the help of classic Disney character GOOFY and including HD demonstration clips from popular Disney titles including Toy Story, Up, Bolt and Pirates of the Caribbean: At World's End.

It was wrong of me to assume the included demonstration clips were intended to help optimize the image, in the manner that such demo clips are on all other calibration discs. My mistake, that I'm sure no one else would ever make.


myoda's Avatar myoda 02:46 PM 07-22-2013
p5browne's Avatar p5browne 05:12 PM 07-23-2013
AVS709 and the New S&M 2 are currently the Best Calibrating Blu-rays. Unfortunately the reviewer from the above URL, was giving the spin on the Old Version. Re the WOW, stick to the Basic results - results not as good as the above 2 Top Picks which are fairly close to Calman results. Start with S&M to get the Colour and Tint, then Calman using Dynamic Range to get the Brightness and Contrast, then 2 Point, followed by Greyscale and CMS, then once again by S&M to get Sharpness.
ConnecTEDDD's Avatar ConnecTEDDD 06:01 PM 07-23-2013



I'm sure you will like this Advanced Sharpness Pattern that will be available soon inside the Ted's LightSpace CMS Calibration Blu-Ray Disk among with other 150 Patterns for Color Reproduction.

This Sharpness Pattern is not limited to typical Black/Gray/White Background that all current calibration disks are using but at 4-Step of 7-Color Amplitude Background... wink.gif

* Scaled Pictures from Actual 1920x1080 pixel Patterns.
mascior's Avatar mascior 06:30 PM 07-23-2013
Ted,
All of your hand crafted test patterns look amazing. I know all of the time and effort that goes into this process! Your Advanced calibation disk and LightSpace blu-ray look phenomenal.smile.gif

Ryan
ConnecTEDDD's Avatar ConnecTEDDD 06:45 PM 07-23-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by mascior View Post

Ted,
All of your hand crafted test patterns look amazing. I know all of the time and effort that goes into this process! Your Advanced calibation disk and LightSpace blu-ray look phenomenal.smile.gif

Ryan

Thanks Ryan, I have added some preview screens to my Disk Thread.
ConnecTEDDD's Avatar ConnecTEDDD 07:16 PM 07-23-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by mascior View Post

Ted,
All of your hand crafted test patterns look amazing. I know all of the time and effort that goes into this process! Your Advanced calibation disk and LightSpace blu-ray look phenomenal.smile.gif

Ryan

Better View - Part of the Advanced Sharpness Pattern



* Sorry for the off-topic.
xnappo's Avatar xnappo 09:08 PM 07-23-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by eival View Post

i just need to know if being able to see the full range with the naked eye is the "good" setting, or if its supposed to be completely flat



I am glad you asked - because a lot of us over on this openelec intel video thread are seeing the same thing:
http://www.openelec.tv/forum/116-vaapi-intel/63796-incorrect-green-levels-and-or-over-saturation

You will note that the current working theory is that somewhere a color space transform is being done incorrectly - hence my asking if the correct 'bt.XXX' tag was present in the MP4 files shortly before your question.

The blue and red look right - the green is wrong - and no amount of adjusting will help here because the green levels are clipped (information just isn't there).

Are you running on Intel video drivers?

Thanks!
xnappo
xvfx's Avatar xvfx 03:15 PM 07-24-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by ConnecTEDDD View Post

* Scaled Pictures from Actual 1920x1080 pixel Patterns.

I'm assuming it'll work ok with a 720p 16:9 tv? since it doesn't do 1:1 pixel mapping. As the AVS HD 709 gives instructions what to look for on those type of sets.
ConnecTEDDD's Avatar ConnecTEDDD 03:32 PM 07-24-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by xvfx View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by ConnecTEDDD View Post

* Scaled Pictures from Actual 1920x1080 pixel Patterns.

I'm assuming it'll work ok with a 720p 16:9 tv? since it doesn't do 1:1 pixel mapping. As the AVS HD 709 gives instructions what to look for on those type of sets.

Only the Advanced Sharpness Pattern will not work.
eival's Avatar eival 05:01 AM 07-25-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by xnappo View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by eival View Post

i just need to know if being able to see the full range with the naked eye is the "good" setting, or if its supposed to be completely flat


I am glad you asked - because a lot of us over on this openelec intel video thread are seeing the same thing:
http://www.openelec.tv/forum/116-vaapi-intel/63796-incorrect-green-levels-and-or-over-saturation

You will note that the current working theory is that somewhere a color space transform is being done incorrectly - hence my asking if the correct 'bt.XXX' tag was present in the MP4 files shortly before your question.

The blue and red look right - the green is wrong - and no amount of adjusting will help here because the green levels are clipped (information just isn't there).

Are you running on Intel video drivers?

Thanks!
xnappo

 

yes, Intel® G45/G43 x86/MMX/SSE2

 

but another issue i found is that VLC itsself is clipping everything to 16-232 cause when i look at the monitor calibration images on lagom, i can see the normal range from 0-255 of both black/white and color. the monitor isnt really that big an issue.

 

ive managed to run the mp4's off a USB to calibrate my TV via the xbox 360, which i found out the YCbCr601 color space is actually the best one to use, everything at RGB or 709 even set to standard range results in crushing and i still had to use in-game video sliders almost all the way up, most likely cause the 360 isnt actually in HD

 

meanwhile i recalibrated at 601 and i could see everything and the actual black areas where still black with no grey washed out effect, the in game sliders make only minor adjustments, and even set to the highest it didnt look washed out like before when calibrated to 709/RGB

 

for the color i wound up just decreasing the main color slider till i could just see past the middle target range in all 3, the Blue was the only one really high, im sure if i had glasses i could fine tune it's CMS levels, but using just the tint and color is good enough.


ConnecTEDDD's Avatar ConnecTEDDD 05:57 AM 07-25-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by eival View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by xnappo View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by eival View Post

i just need to know if being able to see the full range with the naked eye is the "good" setting, or if its supposed to be completely flat




I am glad you asked - because a lot of us over on this openelec intel video thread are seeing the same thing:
http://www.openelec.tv/forum/116-vaapi-intel/63796-incorrect-green-levels-and-or-over-saturation


You will note that the current working theory is that somewhere a color space transform is being done incorrectly - hence my asking if the correct 'bt.XXX' tag was present in the MP4 files shortly before your question.


The blue and red look right - the green is wrong - and no amount of adjusting will help here because the green levels are clipped (information just isn't there).


Are you running on Intel video drivers?


Thanks!

xnappo

yes, Intel® G45/G43 x86/MMX/SSE2

but another issue i found is that VLC itsself is clipping everything to 16-232 cause when i look at the monitor calibration images on lagom, i can see the normal range from 0-255 of both black/white and color. the monitor isnt really that big an issue.

ive managed to run the mp4's off a USB to calibrate my TV via the xbox 360, which i found out the YCbCr601 color space is actually the best one to use, everything at RGB or 709 even set to standard range results in crushing and i still had to use in-game video sliders almost all the way up, most likely cause the 360 isnt actually in HD

meanwhile i recalibrated at 601 and i could see everything and the actual black areas where still black with no grey washed out effect, the in game sliders make only minor adjustments, and even set to the highest it didnt look washed out like before when calibrated to 709/RGB

for the color i wound up just decreasing the main color slider till i could just see past the middle target range in all 3, the Blue was the only one really high, im sure if i had glasses i could fine tune it's CMS levels, but using just the tint and color is good enough.

The Clipping Pattern Video File you are seeing is encoded for Video Levels (16-235). You need to set your PC Video Media Player to RGB-Limited (16-235) or your video card output. The clipping you are seeing is normal without the above actions. wink.gif
Hideman's Avatar Hideman 08:00 AM 07-25-2013
Hey your test suit works very well but I miss a video to set gamma to 2,2.
Is there any good one?
Rolls-Royce's Avatar Rolls-Royce 01:34 PM 07-25-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hideman View Post

Hey your test suit works very well but I miss a video to set gamma to 2,2.
Is there any good one?

If you're talking about the kind of pattern you see in PC monitor adjustment suites, they really aren't accurate, since they depend on your eyesight and how much you're squinting as you adjust the display. It's very subjective. Much better to use a meter and software to measure and adjust based on the luminance of gray scale windows.
Kele's Avatar Kele 12:51 PM 07-28-2013
Big thanks for this and to the poster who recommended setting Panasonic blu-ray player to Standard (from Cinema).
bneundh's Avatar bneundh 01:35 AM 08-02-2013
Should I calibrate via the ps3 or laptop ? reasons ?
Wouter73's Avatar Wouter73 03:03 AM 08-02-2013
Assuming you watch bluray on ps3, ps3. Also, the output from ps3 is near perfect, same can't be said of the average laptop simply because you cant know.
bneundh's Avatar bneundh 04:32 AM 08-02-2013
Here's the thing , I watch movies from my laptop ,but I play games on my ps3 . I do some comparising between the two ( I play the same scene from the game I play via youtube on the laptop) . And on the laptop,the shadow detail is far worse than on the ps3 . In the ps3,I can see everything .on the laptop,it's dark and black and I can't make out the details . If I get a good and semi-expensive PC with good graphic card,would it solve the problem ? I don't wanna calibrate everytime I switch between the two frown.gif
JimP 05:10 AM 08-02-2013
bneundh

Does your display not have more than one input?

If it does, then each input can usually be calibrated separately.
bneundh's Avatar bneundh 05:27 AM 08-02-2013
Yes I have . Oh,so I can get both to look the same then after calibrating ? Luckily I just bought 2 hdmincables by accident so I guess it'd work .. Thanks !
m. zillch's Avatar m. zillch 09:10 AM 08-02-2013

Many if not most basic consumer TVs, such as LCD and plasmas, use a global setting for picture adjustments, you can't do alterations per input ("locally") like on many projector TVs as I suspect Jim P uses.

 

It is easy enough to test by grossly misadjusting the settings and then switching to an alternate input to see if the settings stick.


Wouter73's Avatar Wouter73 10:02 AM 08-02-2013
You could calibrate different presets for different inputs.
bneundh's Avatar bneundh 10:13 AM 08-02-2013
I'm using the mp4 file via my laptop for calibration . And at the white clipping test,I set my contrast to 0 and only 230-234 flashes (with 234 being almost not visible) . Is this a problem ? Like,I'm trying to get all the number to flash but only got those 5 ..
xvfx's Avatar xvfx 10:57 AM 08-02-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by bneundh View Post

I'm using the mp4 file via my laptop for calibration . And at the white clipping test,I set my contrast to 0 and only 230-234 flashes (with 234 being almost not visible) . Is this a problem ? Like,I'm trying to get all the number to flash but only got those 5 ..

Seems to be a computer thing, the 0 - 255? Happens on OS X as well. Everything flashes from 230 to 234 and 219 to 233 for colour clipping. Everything is where it's supposed to be.
cfraser's Avatar cfraser 02:10 PM 08-02-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wouter73 View Post

Also, the output from ps3 is near perfect...

Seriously? And since when did that start? As far as I've ever seen, the last BD player I'd ever use when calibrating a display is the PS3. Next last would probably be any other Sony player. And yes, I do have some and a fat PS3. They are notorious for screwing with the video output, though admittedly they reportedly have gotten better lately (still not perfect), but by then I had already learned my lesson... I am being serious asking this BTW, I'd sure rather use the PS3 for "calibrating" than my better-quality BDPs since the PS3 has a less useful life to me.
willieconway's Avatar willieconway 03:09 PM 08-02-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by cfraser View Post

Seriously? And since when did that start? As far as I've ever seen, the last BD player I'd ever use when calibrating a display is the PS3. Next last would probably be any other Sony player. And yes, I do have some and a fat PS3. They are notorious for screwing with the video output, though admittedly they reportedly have gotten better lately (still not perfect), but by then I had already learned my lesson... I am being serious asking this BTW, I'd sure rather use the PS3 for "calibrating" than my better-quality BDPs since the PS3 has a less useful life to me.

A couple of months ago I measured using AVS HD 709 on my fat PS3. I had calibrated my TV (Sammy D series) using my Panny BDT-220 player which is the player I use daily. All dEs were <1. I figured it'd be interesting to see how different (if at all) the output from the two players are. According to my C3 meter the difference is 0. Greyscale, peak white and gamut measured essentially the same on the two players. Maybe there's a sharpness difference, I didn't check that.
xvfx's Avatar xvfx 04:35 PM 08-02-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by willieconway View Post

Maybe there's a sharpness difference, I didn't check that.

Shows up fine across them all and with broadcast. No blurriness, no over-sharpening. Looks perfect. Was watching 300 earlier, looks like a well taken DSLR photo. No eyestrain. About 3 - 5% on 1080p and 11% on 720p. With a viewing distance of about 6 - 9ft.
willieconway's Avatar willieconway 04:57 PM 08-02-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by xvfx View Post

Shows up fine across them all and with broadcast. No blurriness, no over-sharpening. Looks perfect. Was watching 300 earlier, looks like a well taken DSLR photo. No eyestrain. About 3 - 5% on 1080p and 11% on 720p. With a viewing distance of about 6 - 9ft.

Across all BD players? Sorry, I'm not sure I understand your post.
Wouter73's Avatar Wouter73 10:49 PM 08-02-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by cfraser View Post

Seriously? And since when did that start? As far as I've ever seen, the last BD player I'd ever use when calibrating a display is the PS3. Next last would probably be any other Sony player. And yes, I do have some and a fat PS3. They are notorious for screwing with the video output, though admittedly they reportedly have gotten better lately (still not perfect), but by then I had already learned my lesson... I am being serious asking this BTW, I'd sure rather use the PS3 for "calibrating" than my better-quality BDPs since the PS3 has a less useful life to me.
Opinion I read are different. Most agree though, that the output from virtually all bluray player might be different, but well within visible range.
Tags: Lcd Hdtv , Led Hdtv , lg bp530
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