AVS HD 709 - Blu-ray & MP4 Calibration - Page 134 - AVS Forum
Forum Jump: 
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #3991 of 3996 Old 08-18-2014, 02:51 PM
One-Man Content Creator
 
wmcclain's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 17,109
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 302 Post(s)
Liked: 336
Quote:
Originally Posted by Josh128 View Post
I used the disc and to my surprise found my settings were crushing whites and oversaturating colors quite a bit.

One question though, does anyone know if theres a similar disc I can download for SD DVD players? I'd love to be able to do a basic black/white crush and color saturation setting on my component inputs for my game systems-- I have a Sony DVD only player and a PS2, but the AVCHD DVD wont play in them.

Any suggestions for a pattern disc that works with SD DVD players?
This: http://www.calibrate.tv/. It's downloadable but not free. I liked it better than the commercial discs of the DVD era. Some of the patterns are used in AVS HD 709.

I recall free mpeg2 patterns somewhere. Check the calibration forum.

-Bill
wmcclain is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #3992 of 3996 Old 08-18-2014, 03:53 PM
Senior Member
 
Josh128's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Posts: 250
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 106 Post(s)
Liked: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by wmcclain View Post
This: http://www.calibrate.tv/. It's downloadable but not free. I liked it better than the commercial discs of the DVD era. Some of the patterns are used in AVS HD 709.

I recall free mpeg2 patterns somewhere. Check the calibration forum.

-Bill
Will do, thanks!
Josh128 is offline  
post #3993 of 3996 Old 08-18-2014, 11:13 PM
Member
 
James Freeman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 140
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 51 Post(s)
Liked: 24
If anyone is interest, I have created new APL patterns which gave me perfect greyscale tracking without any tint on my Plasma.
Just scroll down from THIS post downwards to understand what I did and why I needed new APL patterns with my plasma.

BTW. It would be very nice if someone could teach me how to generate a standard 16-235 MP4 video like the ones on the AVS709 disk from my PNG images.

Thanks.

Here is how my APL slides look like:


Panasonic TC-P50ST60.
HTPC (MPC-HC, MadVR), PS3.
Studio Monitors + Polk Audio PSW110 Subwoofer.

Last edited by James Freeman; 08-19-2014 at 06:57 AM.
James Freeman is offline  
post #3994 of 3996 Old Yesterday, 09:54 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Special Member
 
alluringreality's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 3,123
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 9 Post(s)
Liked: 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by James Freeman View Post
Here is how my APL slides look like:
Since I don't have a plasma to test, I've generally been curious if large areas of white in a test pattern might tend to skew xy measurements. Larger measurement areas generally make an image more practical for small displays and projectors. On the other hand white is rather uncommon for many images, so without testing it may make sense to limit the amount of bright areas in a pattern, similar to the example above. In spite of all the discussion around which patterns to use on plasma, there isn't a lot of data to look at in my opinion, but Chad B's measurements on his own APL pattern seem to indicate some clear xy variation against other measurement patterns, so I have to wonder if the bright areas might be a part of the usual complaints about prior fixed-luminance measurement patterns.

The Chad B APL pattern has an APL around 19%, but it has larger measurement areas like white, so the average luminance is around 13% for a 2.2 gamma. The example above seems to have an APL around maybe 26%, and an average luminance about 8% at 2.2 gamma. The example above seems a reasonable average in comparison to the numbers that Zoyd posted, and I doubt if the lower average luminance would hurt in comparisons against typical patterns. Gamma measurements should be generally similar to the trends from other fixed-luminance patterns, but I'm not sure how RGB would turn out or what people might subjectively decide about measurements on various plasma displays. Personally I tend to agree that when using a display type that is known to vary depending on the image displayed it makes sense to have some other reference, like another display that does not vary depending on the displayed image, but as far as I can tell such considerations are not the general forum opinion.

Quote:
BTW. It would be very nice if someone could teach me how to generate a standard 16-235 MP4 video like the ones on the AVS709 disk from my PNG images.
The process used for this project is generally covered in:
AVS HD 709 - Blu-ray & MP4 Calibration

Last edited by alluringreality; Today at 12:34 AM.
alluringreality is online now  
post #3995 of 3996 Old Today, 12:39 AM
Member
 
James Freeman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 140
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 51 Post(s)
Liked: 24
Thanks alluringreality.
BTW how do you measure APL and Luminance to get these % numbers?

My plan is to improve my APL pattern eve further by:

Measure the luminance of a small white square in the middle of the screen while a movie plays in the back,
I will take several luminance measurements of this square throughout several scenes and different movies.
Now I will average the luminance readings of this square to get a certain number.

Now I will play my APL pattern with the same white square in the middle and choose the most accurate grey background to match the average luminance of the white square that I measured on top of the movies.
This would give me the most accurate average of grey shade for my background.

Although every plasma TV has a different APL+ABL behavior, a typical movie APL will trigger some ABL in any kind of plasma.
This sweet spot is where I'm anchoring my new APL white balance calibration pattern.
The anchor is an average APL of actual movies.

The new pattern should be just the perfect balance between APL and ABL to calibrate a Plasma for Movies or TV.

EDIT:
Apparently the value Photoshop gave me as the average grey shade of many scenes combines was spot on in terms of Luminance.
So if anyone cares to download my 16-235 SPL slides can go here: SLIDES.

The photo I used to get an average of the background of my APL patten:


Panasonic TC-P50ST60.
HTPC (MPC-HC, MadVR), PS3.
Studio Monitors + Polk Audio PSW110 Subwoofer.

Last edited by James Freeman; Today at 08:19 AM.
James Freeman is offline  
post #3996 of 3996 Old Today, 10:32 AM
Advanced Member
 
sawfish's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 760
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 11 Post(s)
Liked: 103
Quote:
Originally Posted by alluringreality View Post
Personally I tend to agree that when using a display type that is known to vary depending on the image displayed it makes sense to have some other reference, like another display that does not vary depending on the displayed image, but as far as I can tell such considerations are not the general forum opinion.
I agree with that, and it's what I've been doing as I have a monitor on an arm in front of the 50ST60 on my AnthroCart, which makes it easy. It's helpful but limited, as the black level is so much deeper on the plasma, but I think it does give a ballpark idea of agreement. I also have one device on my remote set up for one-button switching between inputs on the the TV using discrete IR commands that aren't available on the supplied TV remote. I have two sources for the TV that measure the same, and this allows me to A/B the same paused scenes with about a 1 sec black screen delay to compare calibrations. Comparing to Calman Client's 10%-25% constant APL patterns with a wide range of material and a wide range of APL levels, I've found no reason not to just use the smallest possible windows, which for me is 2%. I also get no tinting in the grayscale with 2% windows, and that and green skin tones are what I remember James Freeman giving as his motivation for his stab at constant APL patterns. OTOH, as I've written many times before, when I tried the Spears and Munsil Equal Energy patterns, I did observe greenish skin tones in certain low APL scenes, like one firelit indoor scene in Vikings S01E01, but this was eliminated by going back to small windows. FTR, I'm using Calman Enthusiast, starting with a C3, later an i1D3, and most recently, the i1D3 profiled against a ColorMunki Photo.

So while I've always found the "sweet spot" idea appealing, I've found no benefit to it over small windows on my 50ST60. With one pattern set, it was obviously harmful. I've evaluated it several times over the 1.5 years I've been doing this as I upgraded my equipment and improved my skills. YMMV, and I'm not saying it can't be useful, just that to evaluate it, you need a good set of reference material, devices that measure the same for the same settings, and a procedure for A/Bing calibrations, such that the switching between calibrations (inputs) is quick enough to be at least somewhat valid. If you have to go into the menu system, fuggedaboutit, unless the differences are truly extreme.
sawfish is online now  
Reply Display Calibration

Tags
Lcd Hdtv , Led Hdtv , lg bp530
Gear in this thread - bp530 by PriceGrabber.com

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off