AVS HD 709 - Blu-ray & MP4 Calibration - Page 146 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #4351 of 4374 Old 05-19-2016, 07:52 AM
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I was able to confirm the disk works on a regular Samsung BD player. This indicates there is an issue with the 4k player. Will escalate with Samsung support, although I'm not holding my breath on it...
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post #4352 of 4374 Old 05-19-2016, 02:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by briangreen View Post
I was able to confirm the disk works on a regular Samsung BD player. This indicates there is an issue with the 4k player. Will escalate with Samsung support, although I'm not holding my breath on it...
Hi, there no problems with 1080p players, if you contact Samsung, point them the AVSHD's disk download link.

Ted's LightSpace CMS Calibration Disk Free Version for Free Calibration Software: LightSpace DPS / CalMAN ColorChecker / HCFR
S/W: LightSpace CMS, SpaceMan ICC, SpaceMatch DCM, CalMAN 5, CalMAN RGB, ChromaPure, ControlCAL
V/P: eeColor 3D LUT Box - P/G: DVDO AVLab TPG
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post #4353 of 4374 Old 05-26-2016, 01:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by briangreen View Post
I was able to confirm the disk works on a regular Samsung BD player. This indicates there is an issue with the 4k player.
I have the Samsung and it wouldn't read a DVD of the test patterns.

What's the best way to calibrate for UHD with it? I do not have the ability to burn Blu-Rays.

Do we still use the material in the first post or should we look for updated ones?

This said, this Samsung player got he UHD Premium certification as announced on May 4th by Samsung - we are loving it, I would just like to get the TV calibrated for more enjoyment.
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post #4354 of 4374 Old 06-15-2016, 07:49 AM
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This guide is confusing me, few questions:
I want to use this program on my PS4 and PS3, what version do I need to download and burn?
I don't know if my computer can burn DVD or Bluray, or even it even have a burner, how do I check all that?
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post #4355 of 4374 Old 06-15-2016, 12:32 PM
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Hello, someone has a calibration made ​​for LG LB870V .
Will could share? Thank you
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post #4356 of 4374 Old 06-17-2016, 08:37 AM
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I burnt the program to a DVD-R disc but it turns out my PS4 does not read DVD-R discs, is there any solution for this?
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post #4357 of 4374 Old 06-19-2016, 10:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Salata5 View Post
I burnt the program to a DVD-R disc but it turns out my PS4 does not read DVD-R discs, is there any solution for this?
I have a Sony Blu-Ray player that will read my external hard drive (Windows formatting only - won't work with ExFat from Mac). I have the files on there, and it plays them back just fine.

I'd like to point out while I'm replying, that a lot of Blu-Ray players, and console systems have black level and other picture adjustments. ALL of these need to be shut off, as well as any additional processing that is active from the playback device. You want just a straight signal going to your display without any processing done by the device you're playing the files off of. Otherwise you've calibrated just for that device - and when you flip on the cable box, or play off a Roku, or some other device - things won't look right.
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post #4358 of 4374 Old 06-25-2016, 06:16 AM
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A freshly burned DVD-R copy of AVS HD 709 will not work with my Sony BDP-S6500 (with latest firmware). The disc's main menu loads then the player shuts off shortly thereafter, before any selection can be made. I tried this several times with the same result and even burned another copy which also failed to load. The same disc works perfectly with an old BDP-S390 and I think an older copy also worked in my BDP-S6200 before it was sent back under warranty (and replaced with the BDP-S6500). Not sure if any settings on the player could be the source of incompatibility.
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post #4359 of 4374 Old 06-29-2016, 09:39 AM
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Need some advice.

I need to get this disc to run on my Xbox One to calibrate my Oled tv. I only have DVD-R and DVD+R discs to burn. Which version of this program do I download and which one of these 2 discs should I use?

Thank you!
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post #4360 of 4374 Old 06-29-2016, 12:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by enzo631 View Post
Need some advice.

I need to get this disc to run on my Xbox One to calibrate my Oled tv. I only have DVD-R and DVD+R discs to burn. Which version of this program do I download and which one of these 2 discs should I use?

Thank you!
Hi, burn the AVCHD version of AVSHD disk using a blank DVD-R or DVD+R disk.

Xbox One can't play Recordable Blu-ray (BD-R) due to DRM.

Ted's LightSpace CMS Calibration Disk Free Version for Free Calibration Software: LightSpace DPS / CalMAN ColorChecker / HCFR
S/W: LightSpace CMS, SpaceMan ICC, SpaceMatch DCM, CalMAN 5, CalMAN RGB, ChromaPure, ControlCAL
V/P: eeColor 3D LUT Box - P/G: DVDO AVLab TPG
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post #4361 of 4374 Old 07-03-2016, 06:52 PM
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Sorry if this has been answered I have been browsing over this thread but 146 pages is a lot to read. Will these files work properly via a PS4 either from a media server or USB drive? I did see that a USB drive connected directly to the TV can have unwanted effects. I still have lots of reading to do to figure out exactly how this works but my plan is to calibrate my main TV input using a Spyder 3 and HCFR.

Thanks
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post #4362 of 4374 Old 07-13-2016, 12:32 PM
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Spare BR Calibration disc?


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Originally Posted by willieconway View Post
PM me your address and I'll send you one free of charge. I have at least one to spare, maybe more.
A bit back you kindly offered you might have a spare disc. Wondered if you (or anyone) still had one or if I could pay you a couple bucks to burn one for me. Unfortunately I don’t have BR burner and my box won’t read AVCHD and I have a new Samsung 55KU6300 coming that I want to calibrate given feedback I have seen on factory defaults.

I live in the area as well (SF) if it’s easier for me to stop by then just drop it in the mail.

Thanks for any help provide. Looking forward to checking the disk out on the new TV.

-Tom
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post #4363 of 4374 Old 07-13-2016, 02:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BikeDude1 View Post
Spare BR Calibration disc?




A bit back you kindly offered you might have a spare disc. Wondered if you (or anyone) still had one or if I could pay you a couple bucks to burn one for me. Unfortunately I don’t have BR burner and my box won’t read AVCHD and I have a new Samsung 55KU6300 coming that I want to calibrate given feedback I have seen on factory defaults.

I live in the area as well (SF) if it’s easier for me to stop by then just drop it in the mail.

Thanks for any help provide. Looking forward to checking the disk out on the new TV.

-Tom
Apologies, I only have AVCHD versions.

Adjusting settings according to personal preference is not calibration.

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NHT Absolute Center, Energy Veritas 5.1s, 5.2C, V-Mini-C.
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post #4364 of 4374 Old 07-14-2016, 07:55 AM
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Alright, so who has used the basic settings tests to calibrate their PC? I'm not talking about you're using your HDTV as a PC monitor or anything like that. I mean your pure desktop PC with a PC monitor, unlike the posts I've found searching this thread.

Do you guys use just those tests and calibrate only Brightness, Contrast, Color, and Tint - or do you use another test like Lagom LCD's Gamma test and calibrate Gamma as well? Brightness, Contrast, Color, and Tint, or Brightness, Contrast, Color, Tint, and Gamma?

Also, what video software do you use to view the tests? I have my options in NVidia control panel set to use the Video Player's video settings, and I've noticed that the tests show up differently on Windows Media Player than they do on VLC, where when using VLC I can see everything below 16 on the Brightness test, and everything above 235 on the Contrast test. But then VLC has a bunch of options for video you can change.

I've always preferred AVS HD 709 over the Lagom LCD tests since AVS HD 709 is much more simplified. But when trying to use AVS HD 709 on my PC monitor, I'm constantly going back and forth adjusting the brightness, the contrast, the brightness again, the contrast again etc. with no middle ground, no point where one stops drastically affecting the other.

Basically, I'm just looking for some guidance from someone who has used AVS HD 709 to calibrate their PC monitor, since everything else in this thread is geared towards HDTVs.
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post #4365 of 4374 Old 07-14-2016, 03:00 PM
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Currently trying to calibrate my LG B6 OLED, and I have my HTPC hooked up to it. Not sure exactly what I should be doing regarding RGB Full/Limited or the Color Gamut options.

1.If I have my PC set to RGB Limited: using the AVSHD clips, having my contrast all the way up to 100 clips all of the whites. Lowering it to 98 makes all of the bars flash, and lowering it to 78 still made up to 245 flash (does above 234 even matter?). Setting my PC to RGB Full clips all of the whites until I lower it to 73, which then has 230 - 234 flashing. Higher or lower prevents those five from all flashing.

2. With RGB Limited, brightness is set at 53. With RGB Full, I need to raise it to 67.

Is using RGB Full incorrect in this case, and is it going to cause unneeded wear on the set? The only reason I set it to Full, is because apparently this set can accept it, unless this is just completely wrong: http://www.lagom.nl/lcd-test/black.php

I am using madVR, and instead of having 16 - 235 for the PC and madVR, I have them both set to 0 - 255 since this TV apparently can handle it. Should I just be setting everything back to Limited?

Also, I thought the Wide color gamut option was only for HDR? That's about the only information I've been about to find on what the point of Wide and Extended are in the gamut options. It's also been said that using Wide does nothing if you don't have an HDR signal other than adding color saturation. This isn't entirely accurate at all. At least not on the B6. It not only slightly adds saturation, it also changes the color temperature. When I was trying to calibrate (without software), I ended up settling on Warm 2. This is typically my go-to option anyway, and it's also one of the more suggested as well between Warm 1 and 2. None of the Warm options looked entirely correct to me though with skin tones. Warm 2 was the least offensive, but people still seemed to have more of a red tint added than I remember them looking like at either the theater, or my Panasonic plasma. Maz in The Force Awakens should be more of a yellowish orange than a reddish orange correct?

With color gamut on normal, she looks like the color of a slightly washed out beet. Han Solo also has a particularly bad case of "I'm old and just ran the mile in five minutes and also have a serious case of rosacea". Daniel Craig in Casino Royale looks particularly baked as well (he goes from sunburned to almost jaundice though). Changing the gamut to Wide adds a slight yellow shift to the image, and I don't know which is actually closer to correct in this case. The TV itself doesn't have the correct greyscale yet.

edit: I just read the post above mine.
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Last edited by Plasmoidial; 07-14-2016 at 03:14 PM.
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post #4366 of 4374 Old 07-14-2016, 05:27 PM
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Yup, we are not alone. AVS HD 709 is great for my HDTV setups, but it has been a real hassle trying to use them for my PC. No clear instructions, especially with all the different media players you can use and their different settings for display, and then you have the graphics driver possibly altering things. There's just so much going on and I'm not willing to churn out over $100 for a calibration tool.
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post #4367 of 4374 Old 07-14-2016, 08:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Plasmoidial View Post
Is using RGB Full incorrect in this case, and is it going to cause unneeded wear on the set? The only reason I set it to Full, is because apparently this set can accept it, unless this is just completely wrong: http://www.lagom.nl/lcd-test/black.php

I am using madVR, and instead of having 16 - 235 for the PC and madVR, I have them both set to 0 - 255 since this TV apparently can handle it. Should I just be setting everything back to Limited?
"Limited" and "Full" are confusing terms.

For Video output

"Limited" means Video Levels, the native range for video, which has black at 16 and white at 235, but video can contain values in the range 1-254. The values less than 16 are Blacker than Black or BTB, while those above 235 are Whiter than White, or WTW. BTB is useful only for setting Brightness and should be calibrated out, so that 17 is just flashing in AVS HD 709 Black Clipping, while 16 and below are invisible. Depending on the set, you may not be able to get rid of WTW, and arguably, you should keep some of it anyway. See the Spears and Munsil Contrast, Brightness, and Color Space articles here for more:

http://handforgedvideo.com/2nd-edition-article

"Full" means PC Levels, 0-255. To output video at PC Levels, it must be converted from Video Levels to PC Levels. This means expanding 16-235 into 0-255, which actually loses information, namely BTB and WTW. So in this sense, it is really "Limited" that is "full", as "Full" discards information present in "Limited".

For PC video card output

"Full" means for the card to output 0-255, which is the native range for the PC. Note that Video Levels (16-235) (or really 1-254) fit into Full Range card output without change. This is important.

"Limited" means to have the card compress all output to 16-235 right before it puts the signal on the wire. Video must first be expanded to 0-255 for the compression to work out. You would never want to do this, because you lose color dynamic range, and the expansion/compression or levels round trip of video tends to introduce banding. Choosing any YCbCr option is equivalent, because video cards work internally with RGB 0-255.

Putting it together

Best results for video are for the video player to output Limited Range (Video Levels) and the card to output Full Range. This is passthrough mode as the card is not doing any expansion or compression. However, since the TV must be set to the same range as the video player, i.e. 16-235, the desktop will be crushed. Fortunately, this is unimportant if you just care about video. Some players, like Kodi, even adjust their UI to Limited Range when you select that output option. Others like WMC do not, but it doesn't interfere with their use for video. Even routine desktop tasks don't suffer. You'll be able to maintain your computer and even write letters and such with this levels mismatch. It's how I run my HTPC.

If OTOH you want the desktop and video to be at the same levels, you would have the video player output Full Range (PC Levels) and the card output Full Range. You'll sacrifice BTB and WTW, but you can set your TV to 0-255 and forget about it; both video and the desktop will look correct.

Note that in both cases, the card is outputting Full Range.

To make things even more complicated, the video card has a collection of settings that apply to hardware-accelerated video. For my Nvidia cards, I leave this as "With the video player settings," so that the player decides, and the card stays out of the way.
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post #4368 of 4374 Old 07-15-2016, 01:42 AM
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I appreciate the effort to reply, but that's not quite what I am looking for. I had actually read similar information before, but was still somewhat confused on what I should be doing simply because of what my set can output. Or seems to be able to anyway.

http://forum.kodi.tv/showthread.php?...942#pid2238942

Quote:
Option 3:

A final option involves setting all sources to full range:

(madVR) PC levels (0-255) -> (GPU) Full Range RGB 0-255 -> (TV) Output as RGB 0-255

madVR expands the source to 0-255 and displays it full range on your television. The TV's HDMI black level must be set to display full range RGB (HDMI Normal vs. HDMI Low).

When converting Y'CbCr 16-235 to RGB 0-255, madVR will clip 0-15 and 236-255. Clipping below 16 and above 235 is acceptable as long as a correct grayscale is maintained. Use of these MP4 test patterns for black and white clipping should be used to confirm video levels (16-235) are displayed correctly.

This should be the optimal setting for TVs and GPUs with a full range setting. The desktop maintains correct PC levels and banding is unlikely as madVR handles the lone range conversion.
I can get the tests to all pass with GPU Limited > Player Limited, GPU Full > Player Full and GPU Full > Player Limited. At least with AVSHD anyway. DVE's blacker than black does not work with all set to Full, yet the actual picture in videos looks no different. No crushed blacks, and shadow details remain. I ended up just going with the AVSHD tests, assuming they were more accurate. I'm actually more curious about the gamut issue though.

The other thing is that while I could get the AVSHD black clipping tests to pass with any of those settings, only did having both set to Full get the two different black clipping tests to become more closely aligned. Passing the APL clipping (for black) would set the first black clipping test back to having only 19 as the last flashing bar, instead of 17 when both with Full > Limited selected. When both were set to Full, the difference was smaller and it was also easier to see more of the black bars flashing too.

Last edited by Plasmoidial; 07-15-2016 at 02:31 AM.
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post #4369 of 4374 Old 07-15-2016, 07:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Plasmoidial View Post
I appreciate the effort to reply, but that's not quite what I am looking for. I had actually read similar information before, but was still somewhat confused on what I should be doing simply because of what my set can output.
If you're not observing much difference between Limited and Full Range player output, then go with the one that is more convenient. See what I wrote earlier about desktop consistency. Another consideration arises when plugging everything into an AVR with a single output. Devices like BD players, streamers, etc usually default to Limited Range (Video Levels), which makes sense, because they're video devices. Sony actually dropped the Full Range output option sometime between my 2008 BDP-S350 and 2015 BDP-S1500. If you're doing this, you would want all the sources to use the same levels, and if you have a late model Sony BD player, you may not have any choice.

Quote:
The other thing is that while I could get the AVSHD black clipping tests to pass with any of those settings, only did having both set to Full get the two different black clipping tests to become more closely aligned. Passing the APL clipping (for black) would set the first black clipping test back to having only 19 as the last flashing bar, instead of 17 when both with Full > Limited selected. When both were set to Full, the difference was smaller and it was also easier to see more of the black bars flashing too.
For APL clipping, it's normal not to see everything down to 17 with sets capable of deep blacks, because the bright white areas partially blind you.
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post #4370 of 4374 Old 07-15-2016, 07:54 AM
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Alright, so I'm not using my PC monitor solely for television and movies - should I have the graphics driver override the media player's settings and use Full Range instead, since my understanding is that games and such use Full Range?

On top of that, after forcing Full Range and using AVS HD 709's Basic Settings in VLC, and going back and forth enough times between adjusting Brightness and Contrast - I actually ended up with the exact Brightness and Contrast values that I had when I calibrated my PC monitor with the Lagom LCD tests.
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post #4371 of 4374 Old 07-21-2016, 08:56 AM
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Since you guys are already discussing RGB ranges. I know all the differences in RGB ranges and have all my stuff setup for Rgb limited. One question I had though is my Blu ray player is able to do ycbcr444, rgb limited, and rgb full. Since Blu Ray content is mastered at ycbcr420 am I better off using ycbcr444 or RGB limited? This is all going to a Sony HW55ES projector. I currently use the ycbcr444 output on the player.

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post #4372 of 4374 Old 07-21-2016, 12:16 PM
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Originally Posted by grendelrt View Post
Since you guys are already discussing RGB ranges. I know all the differences in RGB ranges and have all my stuff setup for Rgb limited. One question I had though is my Blu ray player is able to do ycbcr444, rgb limited, and rgb full. Since Blu Ray content is mastered at ycbcr420 am I better off using ycbcr444 or RGB limited? This is all going to a Sony HW55ES projector. I currently use the ycbcr444 output on the player.
It depends on your player and projector. From my earlier message, see the Spears and Munsil Contrast, Brightness, and Color Space articles here for more:

http://handforgedvideo.com/2nd-edition-articles/

Here's the direct link to the Color Space article, which talks about the conversions that are performed and the visual errors that can result when they're done improperly. They have a pattern to help you determine what's going on, but you have to buy their product.

http://handforgedvideo.com/portfolio...color-space-2/
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post #4373 of 4374 Old 07-21-2016, 12:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sawfish View Post
It depends on your player and projector. From my earlier message, see the Spears and Munsil Contrast, Brightness, and Color Space articles here for more:

http://handforgedvideo.com/2nd-edition-articles/

Here's the direct link to the Color Space article, which talks about the conversions that are performed and the visual errors that can result when they're done improperly. They have a pattern to help you determine what's going on, but you have to buy their product.

http://handforgedvideo.com/portfolio...color-space-2/
Damn, yeah I dont want to buy it for just that patten. Thanks for the link =)
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post #4374 of 4374 Old Today, 11:40 AM
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Originally Posted by Salata5 View Post
I burnt the program to a DVD-R disc but it turns out my PS4 does not read DVD-R discs, is there any solution for this?
I am not sure why. I actually did this today and it worked perfectly.

Link to supported ps4 formats here.

Anyway, I wanted to thank the people involved for the effort and upkeep. nice work.
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