AVS HD 709 - Blu-ray & MP4 Calibration - Page 18 - AVS Forum
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post #511 of 4075 Old 02-21-2008, 05:16 PM
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TYVM for all the time and effort to make this, and share it with folks.

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post #512 of 4075 Old 02-22-2008, 07:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alluringreality View Post

NEW PATTERNS:
- Sharpness and overscan

I there any outline to the lightest blue border in the overscan test? I just want to make sure there isn't. Overscan pics I've used in the past would have a discolored outline at the outermost edge.

Brandon
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post #513 of 4075 Old 02-23-2008, 09:57 AM
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Once calibrated with a BR player, can the exact same settings then be used for sat HDTV viewing, in particular DirecTV?

Or should the calibration be done in a different way to create settings more appropriate for HD D* viewing? The settings created with BR look very good with D*, but there is no way to "test".

What about SDTV settings? I know for sure the HD settings don't look good for SD. I was thinking about using HDMI for HD and component for SD. Should the calibration for SD be done with something other than HD 709, or should contrast/color luminance/grayscale settings be different?
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post #514 of 4075 Old 02-23-2008, 10:36 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bplewis24 View Post

I there any outline to the lightest blue border in the overscan test? I just want to make sure there isn't. Overscan pics I've used in the past would have a discolored outline at the outermost edge.

There is no outline at 0% overscan. There's just three different shades of blue outside the gray/black.
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post #515 of 4075 Old 02-23-2008, 06:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bplewis24 View Post

I there any outline to the lightest blue border in the overscan test? I just want to make sure there isn't. Overscan pics I've used in the past would have a discolored outline at the outermost edge.

Brandon

I take it the line tells you if you have 0% overscan? I can see how that might be useful. Maybe alluringreality will change it on the next version if he thinks the same.

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post #516 of 4075 Old 02-23-2008, 06:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kjgarrison View Post

Once calibrated with a BR player, can the exact same settings then be used for sat HDTV viewing, in particular DirecTV?

Or should the calibration be done in a different way to create settings more appropriate for HD D* viewing? The settings created with BR look very good with D*, but there is no way to "test".

It depends on how much variation you have from device to device. Most devices over HDMI are very close, provided you don't have something set up incorrectly. Most people have to use their BR/HD DVD/DVD player settings because a signal generator is required to get decent test patterns from a STB.

Quote:


What about SDTV settings? I know for sure the HD settings don't look good for SD. I was thinking about using HDMI for HD and component for SD. Should the calibration for SD be done with something other than HD 709, or should contrast/color luminance/grayscale settings be different?

This is also somewhat dependent on the specific devices used. The safest thing to do is use an SD disc (like GetGray) for SD playback chains, and an HD disc for HD playback chains.

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post #517 of 4075 Old 02-23-2008, 08:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alluringreality View Post

There is no outline at 0% overscan. There's just three different shades of blue outside the gray/black.

Thanks!

Quote:
Originally Posted by hwjohn View Post

I take it the line tells you if you have 0% overscan? I can see how that might be useful. Maybe alluringreality will change it on the next version if he thinks the same.

Exactly. An overscan pic I used before from the PS3 hard drive alternated black/white borders and at 0% overscan there was a neon green single line border. It can also help to see if you have 0% overscan on all four sides...testing the geometry. I remember one user's TV couldn't get the green border to show at the bottom of the TV.

It's a minor recommendation for next time. No rush and as always thanks to all you guys who have made this available for us.

Brandon
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post #518 of 4075 Old 02-24-2008, 10:55 AM
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I am having trouble with PowerDVD Ultra letting me adjust the brightness and contrast within the software. When I view the brightness or contrast screen on the calibration disk I then open up the configuration of powedvd and start adjusting nothing happens. has anyone else had a issue like this with powerdvd? I'm able to calibrate with dvd by using my videocard settings but not with powerdvd. From what I have read it is better to adjust picture with software instead of videocard. Can someone give me any advice or help why powerdvd is not letting me do this. Oh yea, when I had the OEM version of powerdvd i was able to adjust settings. I then updated to the full retail version and for some reason when adjusting settings nothing takes place within picture.

Please help.
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post #519 of 4075 Old 02-24-2008, 11:17 AM
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I love the new Sharpness/Overscan test. Easily the best I've ever used.
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post #520 of 4075 Old 02-24-2008, 11:50 AM
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First of all, much thanks to the developers of this essential calibration tool.

Next, a question. I've gathering the gear to move to a 2.37 constant height setup. Are any of the patterns on the disc helpful for adjusting an anamorphic lens. The projector (Optoma HD80) will handle the vertical stretch.

The answer to this may be obvious to veteran anamorphic lens owners, but I'm still struggling up the learning curve.

MIKE

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post #521 of 4075 Old 02-24-2008, 12:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hwjohn View Post

It depends on how much variation you have from device to device. Most devices over HDMI are very close, provided you don't have something set up incorrectly. Most people have to use their BR/HD DVD/DVD player settings because a signal generator is required to get decent test patterns from a STB.



This is also somewhat dependent on the specific devices used. The safest thing to do is use an SD disc (like GetGray) for SD playback chains, and an HD disc for HD playback chains.

Thanks so much.
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post #522 of 4075 Old 02-24-2008, 12:30 PM
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The Near Whites are labelled.

The Near Black appear not to be. Am I just scrolling too fast?

BTW, this is in NO WAY meant to be a criticism of this excellent product you guys have produced.

In fact, is there a PayPal account we can send something to for you?
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post #523 of 4075 Old 02-24-2008, 01:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeZ06 View Post

I am having trouble with PowerDVD Ultra letting me adjust the brightness and contrast within the software. When I view the brightness or contrast screen on the calibration disk I then open up the configuration of powedvd and start adjusting nothing happens. has anyone else had a issue like this with powerdvd? I'm able to calibrate with dvd by using my videocard settings but not with powerdvd. From what I have read it is better to adjust picture with software instead of videocard. Can someone give me any advice or help why powerdvd is not letting me do this. Oh yea, when I had the OEM version of powerdvd i was able to adjust settings. I then updated to the full retail version and for some reason when adjusting settings nothing takes place within picture.

Please help.

Mike,
I don't own PowerDVD so I can't really give you any advice. Maybe someone will come along and help you out, but you may have better luck posting in a forum/thread specifically about PowerDVD, or maybe in the HTPC thread here on AVS. Not trying to push your question aside, just trying to make sure you get some help.

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post #524 of 4075 Old 02-24-2008, 01:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mraub View Post

First of all, much thanks to the developers of this essential calibration tool.

Next, a question. I've gathering the gear to move to a 2.37 constant height setup. Are any of the patterns on the disc helpful for adjusting an anamorphic lens. The projector (Optoma HD80) will handle the vertical stretch.

The answer to this may be obvious to veteran anamorphic lens owners, but I'm still struggling up the learning curve.

We don't have any constant height or anamorphic patterns on the RC1 release. GetGray had requested one, and it is still on the "to do" list. It didn't make it into RC1, but it may make it into a later revision. We basically try to get the most widely used patterns implemented first, so things like the sharpness/overscan/centering pattern were higher on the list.

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post #525 of 4075 Old 02-24-2008, 01:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kjgarrison View Post

The Near Whites are labelled.

The Near Black appear not to be. Am I just scrolling too fast?

BTW, this is in NO WAY meant to be a criticism of this excellent product you guys have produced.

In fact, is there a PayPal account we can send something to for you?

alluringreality can probably address this question. We typically use black text for labelling, so it doesn't make much sense to add labels to near black screens because the text wouldn't show up anyway. Maybe we can use white text instead, I'll let alluring comment on that.

As far as donations, we don't accept any at this time. Everything is totally free, no strings attached.

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post #526 of 4075 Old 02-24-2008, 05:00 PM
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I think this thread deserves to be stickied.
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post #527 of 4075 Old 02-24-2008, 05:35 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mraub View Post

I've gathering the gear to move to a 2.37 constant height setup. Are any of the patterns on the disc helpful for adjusting an anamorphic lens. The projector (Optoma HD80) will handle the vertical stretch.

Like Hwjohn mentioned this was requested but didn't make it into the current release. Honestly I wasn't sure if the pattern was supposed to be 2.35 or 2.37 because I couldn't figure out how exactly it works based on some quick google tries. If someone wants to indicate which is right or the number of pixels to use there would be a better chance of it possibly being included at some point.
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post #528 of 4075 Old 02-24-2008, 05:43 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hwjohn View Post

We typically use black text for labelling, so it doesn't make much sense to add labels to near black screens because the text wouldn't show up anyway. Maybe we can use white text instead, I'll let alluring comment on that.

The near black section is intended to be navigated by using chapters and understanding that the chapters will automatically change every two minutes. The issue with adding lighter grays for labeling is that it's possible they could bleed into the measurement on certain displays. Black for labeling shouldn't really have much of a light output so there's less chance of it affecting readings. If I was to label them I'd probably still use a medium to dark gray, but in the end I just considered it unnecessary and left any labeling off.
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post #529 of 4075 Old 02-24-2008, 10:43 PM
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if my blu-ray player and front projector can both can be set 0-255, which bar should I see for setting on the Black Clipping Pattern? Or should I set both to use 16-235 even they are capable of using the expanded mode? Thanks
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post #530 of 4075 Old 02-25-2008, 05:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by luckybeanbean View Post

if my blu-ray player and front projector can both can be set 0-255, which bar should I see for setting on the Black Clipping Pattern? Or should I set both to use 16-235 even they are capable of using the expanded mode? Thanks

You generally want to use 16-235 unless you have a very good reason not to. Normally the only reason to use 0-255 is if you have a HTPC that will not do video levels (16-235). There is nothing to gain by using 0-255 for video sources such as DVD and Blu-ray.

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post #531 of 4075 Old 02-25-2008, 09:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alluringreality View Post

The near black section is intended to be navigated by using chapters and understanding that the chapters will automatically change every two minutes. The issue with adding lighter grays for labeling is that it's possible they could bleed into the measurement on certain displays. Black for labeling shouldn't really have much of a light output so there's less chance of it affecting readings. If I was to label them I'd probably still use a medium to dark gray, but in the end I just considered it unnecessary and left any labeling off.

I can see your point. It makes sense that even the slightest thing could throw off these very sensitive measurements.

The problem I'm having is knowing what the settings are. I assume they start at 0% then go in 1% incrememts. I'm worried that if I am crushing black I won't see the transitions until I am no longer doing so. Then I might think I'm at 1% when in fact it is already at 3% or something. Knowing about the 2 minute chapters helps. We can just use time to know where we are.

FWIW, here is an idea: Just a brief, maybe 10 second showing in visible light gray of the setting at the beginning of every segment.

BTW, did I miss a new info sheet on the new version?
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post #532 of 4075 Old 02-25-2008, 09:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kjgarrison View Post

I can see your point. It makes sense that even the slightest thing could throw off these very sensitive measurements.

The problem I'm having is knowing what the settings are. I assume they start at 0% then go in 1% incrememts. I'm worried that if I am crushing black I won't see the transitions until I am no longer doing so. Then I might think I'm at 1% when in fact it is already at 3% or something. Knowing about the 2 minute chapters helps. We can just use time to know where we are.

FWIW, here is an idea: Just a brief, maybe 10 second showing in visible light gray of the setting at the beginning of every segment.

BTW, did I miss a new info sheet on the new version?

I haven't put up a new changelog yet, if that is what you are looking for. I need to get that done before I forget everything we changed. alluring posted some of the changes somewhere in the new announcement.

EDIT: Changelog is up now, with a link to alluringreality's post with the new patterns that were included and some useful notes.

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post #533 of 4075 Old 02-25-2008, 10:55 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kjgarrison View Post

The problem I'm having is knowing what the settings are. I assume they start at 0% then go in 1% incrememts. I'm worried that if I am crushing black I won't see the transitions until I am no longer doing so. Then I might think I'm at 1% when in fact it is already at 3% or something. Knowing about the 2 minute chapters helps. We can just use time to know where we are.

I just figured almost all players would display what chapter you're currently on. The titles and chapters section of the first post lists which is which. The time was just listed so that if your measurements would happen to exceed two minutes then maybe you could pause the player, assuming it doesn't display anything on-screen when doing so. Generally chapter skipping and watching the chapter readout is the way to know where you're at with dark patterns.
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post #534 of 4075 Old 02-25-2008, 01:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alluringreality View Post

I just figured almost all players would display what chapter you're currently on. The titles and chapters section of the first post lists which is which. The time was just listed so that if your measurements would happen to exceed two minutes then maybe you could pause the player, assuming it doesn't display anything on-screen when doing so. Generally chapter skipping and watching the chapter readout is the way to know where you're at with dark patterns.

OK, thanks. I have a PS3 and haven't even looked to see what it displays on the console. I know I can show all sorts of things on screen, but that would light up the screen waaaaay too much for these dark measurements.
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post #535 of 4075 Old 02-25-2008, 01:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hwjohn View Post

I haven't put up a new changelog yet, if that is what you are looking for. I need to get that done before I forget everything we changed. alluring posted some of the changes somewhere in the new announcement.

EDIT: Changelog is up now, with a link to alluringreality's post with the new patterns that were included and some useful notes.

Thanks, great! All I know is I printed out the big "How To" and used it extensively until I got my colorimeter. I'll look at what you posted. TYVM.

EDIT: I just looked at allur's first post and he has updated everything. I had forgotten where I copied, pasted, and printed the info from!
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post #536 of 4075 Old 02-25-2008, 07:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hwjohn View Post

You generally want to use 16-235 unless you have a very good reason not to. Normally the only reason to use 0-255 is if you have a HTPC that will not do video levels (16-235). There is nothing to gain by using 0-255 for video sources such as DVD and Blu-ray.



thank you very much.
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post #537 of 4075 Old 02-26-2008, 08:51 AM
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Another thanks to alluringreality and hwjohn for a great rc1 version of the disc. This free calibration disc is notably better than most of the costly alternatives out there I've tried.

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post #538 of 4075 Old 02-26-2008, 01:42 PM
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I have a quick question. What is a generally acceptable setting for my back light on my lCD? I have a sammy LN-T4053 btw. I set it down pretty low to a 4 and then did my basic calibrations. Does that sound about right?
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post #539 of 4075 Old 02-26-2008, 03:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kommi1974 View Post

I have a quick question. What is a generally acceptable setting for my back light on my lCD? I have a sammy LN-T4053 btw. I set it down pretty low to a 4 and then did my basic calibrations. Does that sound about right?

You will probably have better luck getting an answer in the flat panel forums (there is probably an owners/tweaks thread for your specific model).

Keep in mind that the people reading this thread have a wide array of TVs so it might be a while before someone who has experience with your specific set shows up.

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post #540 of 4075 Old 02-26-2008, 06:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hwjohn View Post

It depends on how much variation you have from device to device. Most devices over HDMI are very close, provided you don't have something set up incorrectly. Most people have to use their BR/HD DVD/DVD player settings because a signal generator is required to get decent test patterns from a STB.



This is also somewhat dependent on the specific devices used. The safest thing to do is use an SD disc (like GetGray) for SD playback chains, and an HD disc for HD playback chains.

By SD disc do you mean something different than the HD 709 colorspace? Haven't I seen 6xx or something like that?
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