AVS HD 709 - Blu-ray & MP4 Calibration - Page 27 - AVS Forum
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post #781 of 4034 Old 07-13-2008, 05:23 PM
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I burned AVCHD RC1 into a DVD-R disc using Imgburn but my PS3 (v2.41 firmware) doesn't seem to see it. Incompatibility problem with the latest PS3 firmware perhaps?
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post #782 of 4034 Old 07-13-2008, 06:04 PM
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Mine works fine with 2.41 (written on a DVD+RW using the freeware DVD Decrypter).
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post #783 of 4034 Old 07-15-2008, 10:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by George Montemayor View Post

I burned AVCHD RC1 into a DVD-R disc using Imgburn but my PS3 (v2.41 firmware) doesn't seem to see it. Incompatibility problem with the latest PS3 firmware perhaps?

I have 2.41 as well. Mine works fine with DVD+R and CDBurnerXP with 4 year old LiteOn DVD burner.


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post #784 of 4034 Old 07-15-2008, 05:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by knnirs View Post

Thank you for your response. Yes, I did not mention that I don't have a way to check the accuracy of the colorimrter. The Gray-Scale calibration was using the factory settings on the TV, and I have not found an adjustment to mak it closer to 6500 at all IRE levels. Should I worry about getting all readings within +/- 2% of 6500 degrees when the accuracy of the colorimeter ia questionable?

Well, the problem is that you just don't know how accurate your colorimeter is. You have this problem to an extent with any meter that you can't compare to a known reference (most enthusiasts can't), but some meters give you better peace of mind than others because of their track record.

If I were you, I would trust the meter if things looked OK by eye. You won't know if it is 2%, 5%, or 10% off, but it is better than nothing. I would try tweak the grayscale as best as I could, but not go too overboard worrying about it. Just get it as close as you can and watch it for a while. If you get the bug to go another step farther, then there are a few things you could do:

1) Buy a meter with a better track record.
2) Have someone with a really good meter profile your meter for you (you would have to find someone that would be willing to).
3) Hire an ISF tech.

I think that even if your meter is off a bit in relation to other meters in the same price range, that it is still much better than nothing, or even using gel filters for that matter.

Good luck.


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post #785 of 4034 Old 07-15-2008, 05:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by George Montemayor View Post

I burned AVCHD RC1 into a DVD-R disc using Imgburn but my PS3 (v2.41 firmware) doesn't seem to see it. Incompatibility problem with the latest PS3 firmware perhaps?

It should work. Try a different disc, different brand of disc, or a different burner and see if that helps. Post back if you can't get it working.


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post #786 of 4034 Old 07-15-2008, 06:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hwjohn View Post

Well, the problem is that you just don't know how accurate your colorimeter is. You have this problem to an extent with any meter that you can't compare to a known reference (most enthusiasts can't), but some meters give you better peace of mind than others because of their track record.

If I were you, I would trust the meter if things looked OK by eye. You won't know if it is 2%, 5%, or 10% off, but it is better than nothing. I would try tweak the grayscale as best as I could, but not go too overboard worrying about it. Just get it as close as you can and watch it for a while. If you get the bug to go another step farther, then there are a few things you could do:

1) Buy a meter with a better track record.
2) Have someone with a really good meter profile your meter for you (you would have to find someone that would be willing to).
3) Hire an ISF tech.

I think that even if your meter is off a bit in relation to other meters in the same price range, that it is still much better than nothing, or even using gel filters for that matter.

Good luck.

Many thanks for your kindness and suggestions.
I will be using this colorimeter on other TV's in the near future.
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post #787 of 4034 Old 07-15-2008, 10:02 PM
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Tried a 2.4x DVD+RW disc which I forgot I had... and it worked. Guess the PS3 didn't like the DVD-R Ritek media I used.
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post #788 of 4034 Old 07-18-2008, 11:29 AM
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Same problem as above. I have both hddvd and bluray. They have always worked fine. Upgraded PS3 from 2.36 to 2.41 yesterday and now the BR sticks at the top menu. What gives?


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post #789 of 4034 Old 07-20-2008, 11:25 AM
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PS3 was unplugged yesterday. Tried my DVD-R pf AVSHD709 Bluray and now it works fine again. Huh? Oh well.


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post #790 of 4034 Old 07-25-2008, 08:03 AM
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First off. THANKS for creating this disk. It works great in my PS3.

TV: Sony KV-34HS420 34" Widescreen Direct View CRT
Color filters: Avia Red, Green, Blue from the Standard DVD version.

WHen I set the color using the blue color filter using the blue color bars, and then go to the flashing bars to check my color decoder, my red is right on (0%) as is blue of coarse (0%), but green is up around 20%. There are a few possible causes, the TV decoder or primaries, the PS3 HDMI output, or the green color filter.

Can the green color filter from the Avia disk be used to check green saturation correctly on a HD set or with this disk? I'm just not sure if the green primary in my TV is correct either, which could throw off the reading with the color filter I'm using.

Thanks,
Dan
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post #791 of 4034 Old 07-26-2008, 06:03 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stereomandan View Post

Can the green color filter from the Avia disk be used to check green saturation correctly on a HD set or with this disk?

I consider the simple answer to be somewhere along the lines of the last part here http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...4#post14237474


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post #792 of 4034 Old 08-16-2008, 08:54 PM
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i downloaded both AVCHD RC1 but both get the extraction error
any help?
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post #793 of 4034 Old 08-16-2008, 09:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hitman3000 View Post

i downloaded both AVCHD RC1 but both get the extraction error
any help?

Can you give some details on the error? The .exe version should decompress without any additional software.


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post #794 of 4034 Old 08-16-2008, 09:13 PM
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after extraction i got the iso but poweriso and magiciso says it can't read the image, and that the image is corrupted
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post #795 of 4034 Old 08-17-2008, 12:10 AM
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how come I kept on failing to burn the image file to my DVD+R?

KakiC●l○r® Calibration w/ Calman

---------------------------------------------------------------

Current Setup:

*LG 55" LH95/LHX

-Semi-Gloss Coating

-Direct Backlit SlimLED w/ Local Dimming

-3360 LEDs w/ 240 Zones

*LG 42" LM7600

-Gloss Coating

-Edge-lit LED w/ Local Dimming

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post #796 of 4034 Old 08-17-2008, 12:58 AM
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I burned it now with DVD+R but the problem is that the PS3 is unable to play it.....

Update: Nevermind, I got everything sorted out now~ Crap DVD+R....

KakiC●l○r® Calibration w/ Calman

---------------------------------------------------------------

Current Setup:

*LG 55" LH95/LHX

-Semi-Gloss Coating

-Direct Backlit SlimLED w/ Local Dimming

-3360 LEDs w/ 240 Zones

*LG 42" LM7600

-Gloss Coating

-Edge-lit LED w/ Local Dimming

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post #797 of 4034 Old 08-19-2008, 02:07 PM
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I am a bit confused. My TV will not allow me to adjust the Sharpness, Color, Contrast etc... Is there a reaosn for this?

I have a Pioneer Elite Pro 730HD.

I look forward to burning this Disk and seeing what it can do for my TV and High Def shows!
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post #798 of 4034 Old 08-20-2008, 05:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by daniel_dipaolo View Post

I am a bit confused. My TV will not allow me to adjust the Sharpness, Color, Contrast etc... Is there a reaosn for this?

I have a Pioneer Elite Pro 730HD.

I look forward to burning this Disk and seeing what it can do for my TV and High Def shows!

The best thing to do is to find an owners thread or post a new thread in the correct forum for your TV. There will be more end users of your set there that can probably offer better information.

What is your source? Is your source outputting RGB or YCbCr?


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post #799 of 4034 Old 08-20-2008, 08:01 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hitman3000 View Post

after extraction i got the iso but poweriso and magiciso says it can't read the image, and that the image is corrupted

There are basically three places where problems could come up - download, uncompression, or burning the iso. Based on what you wrote, I would think it's likely either the first or the second if two programs report the same thing.

1) Generally I would suggest to try the other download type. So if you had downloaded the .exe before, then try the .7z and see if that changes anything. If things are working correctly on download and uncompression then the file size for the resulting iso should be the same regardless of which download type is used, but it's possible that might not be the case if something isn't working right. So basically where I would start is to try the other download (.exe or .7z) and see if you get the same error.

2) If you try the other download and you still get the error, and the two resulting .iso files are the same file size regardless of the download type, then at that point I would suggest to try Imgburn instead of the programs listed.


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post #800 of 4034 Old 08-25-2008, 08:41 AM
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Quick question:

I have the blue color filter from both the standard DVD editions of Avia and Digital Video Essentials. If I use the flashing color bars on the 709 disk to set my color level, will this be correct? I'm thinking it won't be due to a different color gamut with Blu-Ray, but want to hear from someone who knows. Both filters give me the same result. If I use the SD DVD filters, will I typically have set the level too high, or too low? I'm just curious. Thanks

Dan
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post #801 of 4034 Old 08-25-2008, 02:02 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stereomandan View Post
I have the blue color filter from both the standard DVD editions of Avia and Digital Video Essentials. If I use the flashing color bars on the 709 disk to set my color level, will this be correct? I'm thinking it won't be due to a different color gamut with Blu-Ray
Basically DVE HD does the same thing in how it provides one filter for both SD and HD patterns. From what I've read it seems the accuracy of using a filter to set color and tint will vary depending on the display, so my opinion is that the question to be asking here is - how accurate might a color filter be in comparison to maybe using a spectroradiometer for my display? That's a question I can't really at all address for any displays other than what I own, but if you want to read through what follows I'll describe what's going on in regards to the media and how color gamut you mention relates.


SD (Ex: commercial DVD) and HD (Ex: Blu-ray) both store color information in terms of YCrCb. For SD, Rec. 601 defines an encode/decode relationship for YCrCb to RGB, and Rec. 709 relates YCrCb to RGB for HD. Although either video format stores color information as YCrCb, how to convert YCrCb to RGB differs between Rec. 601 and 709. This conversion difference matters because typically at some point YCrCb will be converted to RGB.

In a simple player and display setup, often either the display or player can be set to handle the conversion to RGB. One complication arises when upconverting or playing back both SD and HD, that being how to output YCrCb for another device to decode. Typically in such a setup, the expectation is that by outputting YCrCb at HD resolution (such as playing HD video or upconverting a DVD) Rec. 709 will be expected for decoding. One way to handle this is to use a conversion matrix on the YCrCb for the upconverted DVD so when it's decoded with Rec. 709 the resulting RGB values are similar to what would have been expected if Rec. 601 had been used with the original material.

Both of my players appear to simply use a standard conversion matrix for YCrCb in DVD upconversion as described (See Note 1). This assumption comes from how I measure similar color results at the display regardless if the player is outputting YCrCb from DVD, DVD upconverted to HD resolution, or native HD video (See ColorHCFR file attachment for measurements). While I do understand Rec. 709 does define intended color points that differ from what's defined by SMPTE-C, in terms of what information actually appears on the disk (YCrCb) and how that information is typically decoded (converted to RGB) Blu-ray really does not have any different color gamut from DVD. In practical terms a 75% blue is generally expected to be similar at the display, regardless if the source is DVD or HD media (See http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...2#post11877342 for further discussion). This is why I'll generally suggest the video type is somewhat irrelevant, and what really matters is to ask - how accurate are filters in relation to the display I'm using?


Note 1 - It would be possible to modify YCrCb or RGB in different ways, but as far as I can tell this is not commonly done with standalone players so it's irrelevant for general discussion.

 

Color.zip 3.2919921875k . file
Attached Files
File Type: zip Color.zip (3.3 KB, 2 views)


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post #802 of 4034 Old 08-27-2008, 09:00 AM
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Thanks for the great reply. I am using a PS3 (40g latest firmware) for both DVD upconversion, and Blu-Ray playback. Do you know if the PS3 properly maps the SMPTE-C DVD gamut to the REC.709 gamut?

I suppose I could check this by playing the 75% blue calibration bars with my SD AVIA or DVE disc, and then compare that to my REC.709 Blu-Ray disc. If they differ for Saturation and Hue setting, does this mean that it is not mapping properly and that I'll need seperate memory settings for each?

Dan
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post #803 of 4034 Old 08-27-2008, 02:06 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stereomandan View Post

I am using a PS3 (40g latest firmware) for both DVD upconversion, and Blu-Ray playback. Do you know if the PS3 properly maps the SMPTE-C DVD gamut to the REC.709 gamut?

I don't own a PS3 so I can't say how it operates. If I was to guess I would figure it works in line with what I attempted to describe. I haven't seen anything where I would expect the PS3 would do anything that would alter the gamut produced by your display. There are a lot of different items brought up in the linked thread such as http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...6#post11890066 That might suggest it wouldn't necessarly be "proper" to alter gamut even if your electronics allowed for such a thing.


Quote:


I suppose I could check this by playing the 75% blue calibration bars with my SD AVIA or DVE disc, and then compare that to my REC.709 Blu-Ray disc. If they differ for Saturation and Hue setting, does this mean that it is not mapping properly and that I'll need seperate memory settings for each?

I would suspect you should find settings to be similar.


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post #804 of 4034 Old 08-27-2008, 06:30 PM
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Alluringreality: Back in eary July you were asking for non-ISO format opinions for the REC709 disks you've posted. I did a quick check and couldn't see whether you'd reached a conclusion. At the time I didn't have an opinion, but since then I've noticed that some video cards ship with a free copy of PowerDVD v7. It doesn't support HD-DVD or Bluray, but it does support WMV-HD. Also, of course, Windows Media Player and I think Media Center plays WMV-HD. So I'd vote for this as a good choice as an alternate format to ISO, if you haven't already made a choice. Thanks!

EDIT: WMV-HD seems to support various resolutions. 1080p would be the obvious choice.
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post #805 of 4034 Old 08-27-2008, 07:55 PM
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Well, I know mplayer can play WMV9 at 1080p on linux so WMV would be cool, xvid would be my second format of choice, because honestly, WMV has better support from video card makers on hardware acceleration, etc.
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post #806 of 4034 Old 08-28-2008, 05:04 AM
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Alluringreality, when you first asked about a non-ISO format I clearly didn't understand why you'd bother because it was "so easy" to convert to whatever I wanted. Boy was I wrong. I just assumed that I had the tools, and if I didn't then I could grab what I need on the internet. I spent a few hours last night trying to figure out how to convert EVOs. Everything was a five step process using 3-4 different application, creating script or bat files to get it done. Yikes. I'm a computer geek, but this has become pretty tedious.

So yesterday I asked for a wmv-hd version. At this point I'll beg you for any format you have laying around until you come up with a permanent version. I'd like to calibrate my HTPC but I don't have an application to read HD-DVD (or Bluray). Does anyone know of a free app? I thought VLC would work, and it almost did, but then I got errors. I planned to upgrade to PowerDVD until I found out it cost $90. This is the only HD DVD that I plan to use, so that's a lot of money for a one time use.

Thanks!
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post #807 of 4034 Old 08-28-2008, 06:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HappyFunBoater View Post

Alluringreality, when you first asked about a non-ISO format I clearly didn't understand why you'd bother because it was "so easy" to convert to whatever I wanted. Boy was I wrong. I just assumed that I had the tools, and if I didn't then I could grab what I need on the internet. I spent a few hours last night trying to figure out how to convert EVOs. Everything was a five step process using 3-4 different application, creating script or bat files to get it done. Yikes. I'm a computer geek, but this has become pretty tedious.

So yesterday I asked for a wmv-hd version. At this point I'll beg you for any format you have laying around until you come up with a permanent version. I'd like to calibrate my HTPC but I don't have an application to read HD-DVD (or Bluray). Does anyone know of a free app? I thought VLC would work, and it almost did, but then I got errors. I planned to upgrade to PowerDVD until I found out it cost $90. This is the only HD DVD that I plan to use, so that's a lot of money for a one time use.

Thanks!

Just be patient. We are actively working on a new version that should be released fairly soon. We can look into WMV-HD, but as you have already found, it isn't always trivial. The HD-DVD and AVCHD versions we make now require several different steps to produce and verify.

I haven't really messed with WMV. Is it an entirely different codec, or is it just a container? If it is a container, can WMV hold h.264/AVC video? If a codec outside of MPEG2 or AVC is required, then it will substantially increase the difficulty.


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post #808 of 4034 Old 08-28-2008, 06:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hwjohn View Post

Just be patient. We are actively working on a new version that should be released fairly soon. We can look into WMV-HD, but as you have already found, it isn't always trivial. The HD-DVD and AVCHD versions we make now require several different steps to produce and verify.

I haven't really messed with WMV. Is it an entirely different codec, or is it just a container? If it is a container, can WMV hold h.264/AVC video? If a codec outside of MPEG2 or AVC is required, then it will substantially increase the difficulty.

Thanks.

WMV is a codec, not just a container.

And I'd be more than happy to try an alpha or beta. Just PM me with the details.
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post #809 of 4034 Old 08-28-2008, 08:22 AM
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WMV is the container format, the codec would be WMV9 which is VC-1 equivalent:


Quoting wikipedia:

The Simple and Main profile levels in WMV 9 are compliant with the same profile levels in the VC-1 specification.[11] The Advanced Profile in VC-1 is implemented in a new WMV codec called Windows Media Video 9 Advanced Profile.
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post #810 of 4034 Old 08-28-2008, 09:01 AM
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That is most likely a problem. We would need a free VC-1 encoder and reference decoder, and I'm not sure that one exists. The other problem is that it would be the equivalent of making a third disc, which I'm not sure would be worth the effort.

The easiest thing to do would probably be to make the MPEG2 files from the HD-DVD version available in file format. Would this work?


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