AVS HD 709 - Blu-ray & MP4 Calibration - Page 46 - AVS Forum
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post #1351 of 4030 Old 02-07-2009, 12:30 AM
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Originally Posted by luigi.lauro View Post

I'm trying a DVD+R right now, burned from another computer onto a TDK DVD+R.

We will see if it works. I think my player is faulty with DVD-R (hopefully only those) or my burning PC is producing low quality discs for some reason.

I will let you know, thanks for help. (I'd still like to know if someone tried DVD-R on a 2.2 firmware!)


Tried a TDK DVD+R burned from another computer, using another downloaded version of the ISO.

Same result: disc can't be played.

Firmware: 081217_41_BDP2500_XEF, european

I'm starting to think it's my player, even if plays BD just fine... anyone with THIS firmware can try the disc on DVD-R or DVD+R?
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post #1352 of 4030 Old 02-07-2009, 08:14 AM
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Burned on a DVD-R , "Can't play disk"
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post #1353 of 4030 Old 02-07-2009, 08:32 AM
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Originally Posted by oscar1128 View Post

Burned on a DVD-R , "Can't play disk"

Are you guys finalizing the disk?

I burned to DVD-R and it plays fine on my Panny BD35.
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post #1354 of 4030 Old 02-07-2009, 09:36 AM
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Sorry,OK for Pioneer blu-ray player, but disk can't for dvd player
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post #1355 of 4030 Old 02-07-2009, 11:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oscar1128 View Post

Sorry,OK for Pioneer blu-ray player, but disk can't for dvd player

Oscar,

While you can burn AVSHD709 to a DVD-R, it won't play in a DVD player.

hope this helps,


--tom
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post #1356 of 4030 Old 02-07-2009, 11:24 AM
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Originally Posted by thomasl View Post

Oscar,

While you can burn AVSHD709 to a DVD-R, it won't play in a DVD player.

hope this helps,


--tom

Thanks
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post #1357 of 4030 Old 02-09-2009, 05:58 PM
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do you have a download compatible with mac computers
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post #1358 of 4030 Old 02-09-2009, 07:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by biggz1 View Post

do you have a download compatible with mac computers


The .7z downloads can be decompressed on a Mac, but you must install 7zip, which should be free. Is that what you are asking?

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post #1359 of 4030 Old 02-10-2009, 10:39 AM
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For those of use without DVD burners (don't laugh!), is it possible to download the .mp4 version and copy it to the PS3 with a USB drive? Play it as a video?

Many thanks. Looking forward to trying this out!
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post #1360 of 4030 Old 02-10-2009, 10:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ../ben View Post

For those of use without DVD burners (don't laugh!)

LOL! Sorry, I just had to

I haven't tried the MP4 files on a PS3, but I use them on my HTPC and they're great. Does the PS3 play other MP4 files? If so, I see no reason why these wouldn't work just the same.
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post #1361 of 4030 Old 02-10-2009, 11:21 AM
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I'll try it tonight. Just wondering if anyone could give me some instant gratification. The PS3 online manual reports: (among others...)

MP4 file format (H.264/MPEG-4 AVC High Profile [AAC LC])
AVCHD (.m2ts / .mts)

I have noticed that blacks in BDs are darker than blacks in DVDs, and I was wondering if playing it as a video would be identical to it reading it off of a disk.
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post #1362 of 4030 Old 02-10-2009, 11:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ../ben View Post


I have noticed that blacks in BDs are darker than blacks in DVDs, and I was wondering if playing it as a video would be identical to it reading it off of a disk.

I had never thought about them being different, but the PS3 could very well do something different from the USB drive than disc. I'll see if I can verify it tonight.

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post #1363 of 4030 Old 02-10-2009, 12:03 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CT_Wiebe View Post

alluringreality -- I think your comment about ColorHCFR is correct in that they tend to use IRE and % stimulus interchangeably (even though this is not, technically, correct). Were the similarity breaks down is at the black end of the grayscale, as we are discussing.

In regard to Digital 16, this is (and has always been) = 7.5 IRE = 7.5 millivolts. It has never been 0 Volts. With digital video signals, the discussion of voltage is somewhat meaningless (which is why the use of IRE doesn't fit either). If 0 IRE = Digital 16 were true, we could never have BTB video values, since that requires voltages that are less than video black = digital 16 (and you can't have negative IRE values either). You can't have Digital 0 be a negative voltage (which would be required as you have posited). This is precisely the area where the presumed use of IRE and % stimulus, as equals, breaks down completely.

This is not correct at all. It depends. In a system that employs 7.5 IRE setup for analog output from a digital source, black is at 7.5IRE analog, which is digital 16 on the disc.

In a system without setup, which is the norm these days, and for HD sources, black in analog is at 0IRE, which is still digital 16 on the disc.

The relationship between the analog levels and the digital levels differ depending on the device and what standard it is following.

And yes you absolutely can have negative voltages, and this is exactly what happens with pretty much all devices these days which don't use setup. 16 is at 0volts analog, and everything below that is simply negative.

And as also pointed out 7.5IRE is not 7.5 millivolts it's about ~54mV.
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post #1364 of 4030 Old 02-10-2009, 01:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hwjohn View Post

I had never thought about them being different...

For example, some games are pretty dark, and so if I adjust the settings to accommodate and then pop in Fight Club (DVD), the movie looks kinda washed out. When the XMB fades away, the screen goes black, but then changes to "different black", which looks lighter, which is then used throughout the DVD, including the THX Optimizer.

Though, this could be exactly why I need a good calibration...

Do BDs have a different "absolute" level of black than DVDs? A different reference? Is it the THX-ification of the film? Is it the PS3?

There is also a setting on the PS3 which limits video output over HDMI to values between 16 and 235. When I enable it (limiting output), the XMB then looks washed out. I think things look better with it disabled, but I wonder if this is somehow related.
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post #1365 of 4030 Old 02-10-2009, 01:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ../ben View Post

Do BDs have a different "absolute" level of black than DVDs? A different reference?

No.

Quote:


Is it the THX-ification of the film?

The what?

Quote:


Is it the PS3?

There is also a setting on the PS3 which limits video output over HDMI to values between 16 and 235. When I enable it (limiting output), the XMB then looks washed out. I think things look better with it disabled, but I wonder if this is somehow related.

Different settings need different calibration adjustments.

-Bill
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post #1366 of 4030 Old 02-10-2009, 01:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ../ben View Post

For example, some games are pretty dark, and so if I adjust the settings to accommodate and then pop in Fight Club (DVD), the movie looks kinda washed out. When the XMB fades away, the screen goes black, but then changes to "different black", which looks lighter, which is then used throughout the DVD, including the THX Optimizer.

Though, this could be exactly why I need a good calibration...

Do BDs have a different "absolute" level of black than DVDs? A different reference? Is it the THX-ification of the film? Is it the PS3?

There is also a setting on the PS3 which limits video output over HDMI to values between 16 and 235. When I enable it (limiting output), the XMB then looks washed out. I think things look better with it disabled, but I wonder if this is somehow related.

A properly mastered DVD or BD will look the same, e.g. they conform to the same specs concerning "brightness." Both use digital 16 as black.

Games are the problem. Game designers in general have no clue about video standards, so they can vary a good bit. Basically you calibrate using BD (like our disc) and let the games fall where they may. If the game is not playable, you have to tweak as you go and return to your calibrated settings when done with the game.

Unfortunately this is the way things are until game designers start to care about video standards. From the games I have played, it seems like the bigger games are starting to come around.

As far as PS3 settings:

Superwhite: On
BD/DVD Output: YCbCr or Auto
RGB Limited/Full: Limited

EDIT: The above assumes you are using a TV that expects video level, not a PC monitor or a TV expecting PC levels.

These settings allow the PS3 to pass whiter than white and blacker than black signals, and also allows your BD calibration to fall in line for games/XMB (which output in RGB). There is nothing "limited" about RGB limited. It should really be named "PC level" and "Video level."

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post #1367 of 4030 Old 02-11-2009, 07:47 AM
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Copying the .mp4 versions to the PS3 worked fine! Fantastic work, btw. I love the difference!
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post #1368 of 4030 Old 02-12-2009, 07:56 PM
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Dear Team,

"Can not play this disc" is the message I saw when playing the DVD burned with "HDDVD-v1_2.iso"
I downloaded "HDDVD-v1_2.exe" extracted file to "HDDVD-v1_2.iso" and burned to DVD-R by Nero. But to play that dics on Sony DVD model "DVP-NS708HP" which connects to BRAVIA LCD "KLV-32W400A" thru HDMI cable, the msg on screen is "Can not play this disc"

Did I do anything wrong ? Please guide me, Thks you.

I went chking the DVD with PC the folder and files look around below list

Directory of E:\\HVDVD_TS

..

HV000I01.BUP 65,536
HV000I01.IFO 65,536
HV000M02.EVO 557,056
HV001I01.BUP 131,072
HV001I01.IFO 131,072
HV001T01.EVO 793,313,280
HV002I01.BUP 262,144
HV002I01.IFO 262,144
HV002T01.EVO 1,024,002,048
HV002T02.EVO 791,607,296
10 File(s) 2,610,397,184 bytes
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post #1369 of 4030 Old 02-12-2009, 08:36 PM
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Dear Team,

"Can not play this disc" is the message I saw when playing the DVD burned with "HDDVD-v1_2.iso"
I downloaded "HDDVD-v1_2.exe" extracted file to "HDDVD-v1_2.iso" and burned to DVD-R by Nero. But to play that dics on Sony DVD model "DVP-NS708HP" which connects to BRAVIA LCD "KLV-32W400A" thru HDMI cable, the msg on screen is "Can not play this disc"
...

Looking online, it appears the DVP-708HP DVD player is an upscaling player for standard PAL and NTSC DVDs. But the various versions of the AVS HD disk are for high-def players, e.g., players that support HD or blu-ray formats.

In my case, AVC HD version works fine in my Panasonic blu-ray player, but is rejected immediately by my Pioneer upscaling DVD player. So I use the GetGray disk, or the HCFR PAL disk, to calibrate my set with my Pioneer player.
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post #1370 of 4030 Old 02-13-2009, 05:25 PM
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Many Thks Bill,

I'm trying the HCFR as your suggestion and I will bring you my result next day.

Thks you.
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post #1371 of 4030 Old 02-14-2009, 07:24 AM
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Is the modified ANSI pattern in the HCFR submenu to be used with the i1? I see that the checkered pattern is centered. Does that mean it's supposed to be used without measuring every square?

-Greg
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post #1372 of 4030 Old 02-14-2009, 07:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by angryht View Post

Is the modified ANSI pattern in the HCFR submenu to be used with the i1? I see that the checkered pattern is centered. Does that mean it's supposed to be used without measuring every square?

Normally an ANSI pattern has 2 screens, with an array of white and black squares. You line up your i1 to measure in the center of a single square (black or white, normally the white one). Then you switch to the other pattern, which switches the black & white square positions, to measure the other one (without having to move the pod). I don't know what HCFR uses for their ANSI pattern.

- Claus {non-Santa model}
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post #1373 of 4030 Old 02-15-2009, 12:29 AM
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First of all thanks a lot for this excellent work. I don't have any problem with AVS on my BD PIONEER, but I wolud like to use AVS to calibrate my NMT (popcorn). Unfortunately, NMT doesn't accept HD ISO nor BDM content. After burning the ISO and copy on my NMT the BDM content, I find the right m2ts to use. The problem is coming from m2ts doesn't have chapters (seem to not be possible). I can of course use time seek to jump from pattern to another but it takes a lot of time. Is-there a way to do it on another way allowing to use AVS on a NMT?
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post #1374 of 4030 Old 02-15-2009, 05:26 AM
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Originally Posted by lcaufrie View Post

First of all thanks a lot for this excellent work. I don't have any problem with AVS on my BD PIONEER, but I wolud like to use AVS to calibrate my NMT (popcorn). Unfortunately, NMT doesn't accept HD ISO nor BDM content. After burning the ISO and copy on my NMT the BDM content, I find the right m2ts to use. The problem is coming from m2ts doesn't have chapters (seem to not be possible). I can of course use time seek to jump from pattern to another but it takes a lot of time. Is-there a way to do it on another way allowing to use AVS on a NMT?

Would the mp4 version work?

-Bill
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post #1375 of 4030 Old 02-15-2009, 05:50 AM
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Any chance we could get these patterns in mpg format (not MP4)?

The Directv HD DVR box allows you to stream mpg (not mpg-4) video from a PC. So what I did to calibrate this video path was to take the .ts files from w6rz.net, run them through HDTVtoMPEG2 converter and then use HCFR. A bit kludgey but works, woudl be great to have the full HD709 disk.
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post #1376 of 4030 Old 02-15-2009, 07:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CT_Wiebe View Post

Normally an ANSI pattern has 2 screens, with an array of white and black squares. You line up your i1 to measure in the center of a single square (black or white, normally the white one). Then you switch to the other pattern, which switches the black & white square positions, to measure the other one (without having to move the pod). I don't know what HCFR uses for their ANSI pattern.

Actually, I was referring to the modified ANSI patterns on the AVSHD disc, it's in the HCFR section. The pattern has the black and white patterns so that they line up with the center of the image. This is slightly different than the standard ANSI pattern which does not (the squares don't line up with having one square in the center). I think you've answered my question in that you don't normally measure each black square then every white square. Thanks, Claus.

-Greg
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post #1377 of 4030 Old 02-16-2009, 04:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pjjameso View Post

Any chance we could get these patterns in mpg format (not MP4)?

The Directv HD DVR box allows you to stream mpg (not mpg-4) video from a PC. So what I did to calibrate this video path was to take the .ts files from w6rz.net, run them through HDTVtoMPEG2 converter and then use HCFR. A bit kludgey but works, woudl be great to have the full HD709 disk.

I doubt there will be any MPEG2 versions besides what you find on the final HD DVD release. It is just too much trouble to make two separate encodes of every pattern, especially since HD DVD is now dead.

You can, however, demux the HD DVD to extract the MPEG2 video stream with the right tools, although the last HD DVD does not have all the latest patterns.

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post #1378 of 4030 Old 02-17-2009, 12:35 PM
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Hi All

Sorry if this has been asked before but there are too many posts to trawl through...

I have downloaded the AVCHD disc but the patterns documentation isn't a PDF it is a .php file (?) and I cant open it. I assume this is the instructions so can anybody help please.

Regards
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post #1379 of 4030 Old 02-17-2009, 12:47 PM
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maybe you need to update your browser, try clearing its disk chache first tho
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post #1380 of 4030 Old 02-19-2009, 12:21 PM
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angryht's recent question about the ANSI Contrast pattern prompted me to learn how to use the HCFR Contrast test. When I ran this using the AVS HD pattern (from the AVCHD image) on my blu-ray player, I saw the interesting anomaly that the ANSI Contrast measured much higher than the On/Off contrast, e.g., 1830:1 vs 1500:1. I say anomaly because most discussions suggest that ANSI contrast measures would be lower than on/off.

Looking at the Y value measured for white (189.489 for ANSI white, 155.311 for IRE100 white), it appears that the ANSI Contrast pattern is based on computer/PAL RGB values of 255 and (probably) 0 for white and black, whereas the black then white full field on/off contrast patterns use 16 and 235 for black and white. Am I reading the data correctly and is this intentional?

(I would have compared this against the HCFR disk, but unfortunately that is a PAL disk, so even if it might be 0-255 in the PAL version, my second, multiregion player should remap the Y values to NTSC studio range, and I have other indications that it clips BTB and WTW.)

Thanks,
Bill
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