AVS HD 709 - Blu-ray & MP4 Calibration - Page 54 - AVS Forum
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post #1591 of 4075 Old 05-28-2009, 10:56 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fifteen2 View Post

you may want to crossreference this list:

The current list is largely based on that link, which is already included in parenthesis. That's probably the best test that I've seen for DVD media, but strictly speaking none of the items there are identical to either of the versions.

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Originally Posted by fifteen2 View Post

Does Encore CS4 re-encode anything?

From what I have to go on, I don't think any of the current authoring software involves any re-encoding of the video. I haven't looked much at audio, so I don't know if Encore re-encodes audio. I do know that TotalMedia re-encodes audio to 2-channel.
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post #1592 of 4075 Old 05-29-2009, 08:33 AM
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I have burned a copy of the new patched version for my PS3 and can't seem to be able to access any pop-up menus. Everything else seems okay though. It also still recognizes the dvd in avchd format.
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post #1593 of 4075 Old 05-29-2009, 10:51 AM - Thread Starter
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It's possible that pop-ups might not be a feature of AVCHD (basically PATCHED tries to pass HDMV as AVCHD). I think that I had tested pop-ups authored that way on the mainstream standalones when Circuit City still had stores, but I don't remember if I tested it on the PS3. http://manuals.playstation.net/docum...o/panel.html#6 shows the icon for pop-ups and simply lists BD-ROM. Anyway, thanks for the player feedback.
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post #1594 of 4075 Old 05-31-2009, 02:53 AM
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I'm glad to report that menus and pop-ups work on an european LG BD370 when using the Patched 1.3 variant burned to a DVD-R...

No menus, except for the ColorHCFR Windows ,show up on the AVCHD version (just the yellow highlight border over a previously run video)...

Hope this helps...

Cheers for the wonderful job!

P.S. is there any way to roughly establish the gamma of the display by using these calibration patterns? I have a couple of presets on my Panasonic plasma (cinema, normal, dynamic) that, I suspect, employ different gamma settings and would like to establish which is the closest to the 2.2 gamma, without tinkering with the service menu, and use the closest one as the starting point for contrast/brightness/saturation calibration...
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post #1595 of 4075 Old 05-31-2009, 01:40 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mytbyte View Post

is there any way to roughly establish the gamma of the display by using these calibration patterns?

I've tried reading about gamma estimates without measurements, and personally I find them rather difficult to use. For example Avia II does have the most common type of gamma pattern, but I find it basically worthless even as a rough estimate. The person that allowed us to include the Imatest items has some alternate patterns at http://www.normankoren.com/makingfineprints1B.html but again I find those somewhat difficult to make a guess within a few decimals.
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post #1596 of 4075 Old 05-31-2009, 02:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mytbyte View Post

P.S. is there any way to roughly establish the gamma of the display by using these calibration patterns? I have a couple of presets on my Panasonic plasma (cinema, normal, dynamic) that, I suspect, employ different gamma settings and would like to establish which is the closest to the 2.2 gamma

You might check in the relevant model thread. E.g. the PZ85U is "calibrated" at the factory so that Cinema is 2.2 and Warm is D65. I've never been very happy with visual gamma estimators even the complicated ones that Apple uses in their display profilers.
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post #1597 of 4075 Old 05-31-2009, 03:56 PM
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We bought a cheapy Dynex 32in. for the bedroom at BB last weekend. I just got done calibrating it with this and i must say I think Ive squeezed quite a lot out of the display. The factory settings were WAY off in every category. I'm actually quite pleased with the results. Thanks for posting this.
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post #1598 of 4075 Old 06-09-2009, 05:02 PM - Thread Starter
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Today I tested the following Blu-ray players that Best Buy had on the shelves, and updated the list accordingly (fiirmware versions unknown)

Insignia NS-BDLIVE01
LG BD300
Pioneer BDP-320
Samsung 1600
Samsung 3600
Sony 350
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post #1599 of 4075 Old 06-12-2009, 09:45 AM
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I know this isn't "meant" for crt's. But, will it work good enough to calibrate a couple of older tube-tvs, I got hanging around the house?

Or maybe, someone could point me to a good DIY free DL, for tubes, if it exists?

P.S.-worked wonderfully on my 40v4100, looks ALOT better, for not being prof. calibrated.
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post #1600 of 4075 Old 06-12-2009, 04:33 PM - Thread Starter
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The patterns for black level and white level (brightness and contrast) are intended for digital displays, and I'm not familiar enough with CRT to say how those patterns would appear on an analog display. There is a free DVD at http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=852536 or there's Digital Video Essentials or Avia which will discuss CRT in more detail. http://www.poynton.com/notes/brightness_and_contrast/ basically talks about CRT, and it mentions the pluge in the color bars (under contrast heading for some reason). Some large city libraries will have the commercial discs for rent, or there's other options like Netflix.
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post #1601 of 4075 Old 06-12-2009, 05:26 PM
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Thanx
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post #1602 of 4075 Old 06-13-2009, 01:06 PM
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Denon DVD-2500BTCI works with the patched download. I really like the patterns and the navigation works great, much better than my Avia disks.
The only trouble I had was with the DVD-RW burner in my laptop. I had to update firmware for it to work and it took a little experimenting. I don't burn a lot of disks.

I am ISF cerfied calibrator. I took the class from Joel Silver at CES 5 years ago and took another class at Vidikron from Jim Burns about 3 years ago. I don't do a lot of calibrations maybe a half dozen a year. I have a Sencore Colorimeter and the Sencore ColroPro 500 software. I sold my Sencore Color Generator with a business so this disk will come in handy as long as it works on other players. I have an older AVIA disk and might pick up the Spears & Munsil High Definition Benchmark: Blu Ray edition for the demo material.
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post #1603 of 4075 Old 06-13-2009, 02:34 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks for the feedback on the Denon. Known Issue #2 and the Blu-ray Players List cover most of what I know about playback on different players.
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post #1604 of 4075 Old 06-13-2009, 10:00 PM
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I click on either of the AVCHD links and get sent to a download site, which says the download link is below. Um, no, it isn't. There is no download link.

Solaris 10 i386 running Opera 9.63

Opera 9.5 under Windblows worked. The rest of the page was drawn. File download has started.

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post #1605 of 4075 Old 06-14-2009, 10:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrvideo View Post

I click on either of the AVCHD links and get sent to a download site, which says the download link is below. Um, no, it isn't. There is no download link.

Solaris 10 i386 running Opera 9.63

Opera 9.5 under Windblows worked. The rest of the page was drawn. File download has started.

I tried four of the links under IE8: AVCHD .exe and .7z, HDMV .exe and .7z. Sometimes I saw a partial page, with no download link visible. But if I tried again or refreshed the page, I saw a complete page with a download link. So I think the links are valid, but sendspace is behaving inconsistently, at least for default (free) downloads.
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post #1606 of 4075 Old 06-14-2009, 01:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Mitchell View Post

So I think the links are valid, but sendspace is behaving inconsistently, at least for default (free) downloads.

It is quite posible that sendspace is doing some lame browser/os detection. Webmaster should NEVER attempt that crap, as they usually get it wrong. You send out compliant HTML code and things will be fine.

In any event, I did get the file and burned the DVD. Haven't had a chance to look at it yet. But will one of these days.

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post #1607 of 4075 Old 06-14-2009, 10:33 PM
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mrvideo -- I had no problem using my Firefox browser (under either Windoz or Linux OS).

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post #1608 of 4075 Old 06-15-2009, 08:10 PM
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would anyone consider the spears and munsil disc a better calibration tool than this one? ive been using avs hd for about a year now and i cant seem to get accurate results out of my 600m.
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post #1609 of 4075 Old 06-16-2009, 03:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whityfrd View Post

would anyone consider the spears and munsil disc a better calibration tool than this one? ive been using avs hd for about a year now and i cant seem to get accurate results out of my 600m.

I use both and like this one better for certain patterns, such as the Flashing Color Bars and Sharpness and Overscan.

The on-screen help on the S&M disc is a nice feature, they show examples of "good" and "bad" settings. I've changed my Contrast adjustment based on their patterns, first to increase peak white and then to back off a bit. But having done this I can now do the same with the AVS HD 709 disc.

-Bill
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post #1610 of 4075 Old 06-17-2009, 09:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whityfrd View Post

would anyone consider the spears and munsil disc a better calibration tool than this one? ive been using avs hd for about a year now and i cant seem to get accurate results out of my 600m.

The discs are not comparable in any meaningful way. They happen to overlap in visual "calibration" but the AVSHD disc is a calibration disc intended to be used with a meter and software (with special support for ColorHCFR and CalMAN) and the S&M disc is intended for purely visual assessment of your reproduction chain.

AVSHD -- a calibration disc that includes some ancillary material to assist with visual adjustment. e.g. black level or overscan/alignment.

S&M -- an assessment disc that supports that purpose with some adjustment patterns. e.g. black level or white level.

Like most disc collectors I have both as well as DVE and GetGray among others.
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post #1611 of 4075 Old 06-19-2009, 06:27 PM
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I have a quick question... Does the THX blue filter work best with Rec. 709 or is it intended for Rec. 601? Or does it not matter either way?
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PlasmaPZ80U View Post

I have a quick question... Does the THX blue filter work best with Rec. 709 or is it intended for Rec. 601? Or does it not matter either way?

I don't think the encoding standard of the source matters after the image is on the screen. A color is a color regardless of whether it orginated as standard def or high def, right?

-Bill
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post #1613 of 4075 Old 06-19-2009, 08:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PlasmaPZ80U View Post

I have a quick question... Does the THX blue filter work best with Rec. 709 or is it intended for Rec. 601? Or does it not matter either way?

Here's some guidance. If you pass the test you're good. Gamut doesn't matter.
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post #1614 of 4075 Old 06-19-2009, 09:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bodosom View Post

The discs are not comparable in any meaningful way. They happen to overlap in visual "calibration" but the AVSHD disc is a calibration disc intended to be used with a meter and software (with special support for ColorHCFR and CalMAN) and the S&M disc is intended for purely visual assessment of your reproduction chain.

AVSHD -- a calibration disc that includes some ancillary material to assist with visual adjustment. e.g. black level or overscan/alignment.

S&M -- an assessment disc that supports that purpose with some adjustment patterns. e.g. black level or white level.

Like most disc collectors I have both as well as DVE and GetGray among others.

I started with the AVCHD and then purchased the S&M. I have no equipment beyond two pairs of THX glasses which I stacked. I want to add that the AVCHD is a great disc for anyone without equipment. There are great patterns for black level (brightness) contrast (picture) and for hue, saturation and sharpness. The S&M disc has some great demo material to see what your display is capable of, and some other cool tests, but after using the checking the settings I got with the AVCHD compared to the S&M I didn't change a thing! So, the AVCHD is a great tool for "visual/filter" calibrations.

The discs are comparable for the visual calibration patterns. Some of the S&M patterns I liked better, but some of the AVCHD patterns are IMO superior. For example, I like the AVCHD low PLUGE patterns and Sharpness patterns better.

Bottom line: if your wallet is feeling a bit thin and you have no special equipment, not much will be gained by purchasing the S&M disc if you simply want to do a basic calibration. The AVCHD disc is great for visual calibrations.

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post #1615 of 4075 Old 06-20-2009, 07:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bodosom View Post

Here's some guidance. If you pass the test you're good. Gamut doesn't matter.

I did try this and it did not pass the test. I was able see some green and purple and the thin black bars right below did not match what was above.
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post #1616 of 4075 Old 06-20-2009, 11:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BluCheez View Post

The discs are comparable for the visual calibration patterns. Some of the S&M patterns I liked better, but some of the AVCHD patterns are IMO superior. For example, I like the AVCHD low PLUGE patterns and Sharpness patterns better.

Bottom line: if your wallet is feeling a bit thin and you have no special equipment, not much will be gained by purchasing the S&M disc if you simply want to do a basic calibration. The AVCHD disc is great for visual calibrations.

Well we all have our opinions but I think you misunderstand what I wrote and the point of the S&M disc. Stacey and Don are both availble in the S&M thread if you'd like to go the "source" as it were.
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post #1617 of 4075 Old 06-20-2009, 02:11 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PlasmaPZ80U View Post

I have a quick question... Does the THX blue filter work best with Rec. 709 or is it intended for Rec. 601? Or does it not matter either way?

Doesn't really matter. It's the SPD of the display's primaries that will determine how well the filter works. Some filters will work better with some displays than others. If the filter leaks light through, then it will lead to a wrongly elevated setting. Using a setting slightly below what the leaky filter suggests is right is a good guesstimate. If the filter is leaking and suggesting a setting just slightly above neutral, it's probably safe to assume the color decoding on the display is accurate, and is correct at the neutral setting.

Beyond that, you need an accurate colorimeter to measure the actual colors of your primaries, and then calculate the Y values for those primaries referenced to your measured white point, then check color that way. That is much more complex, and depends also on the meter, so it can have as many (or more) pitfalls as the filter method. Not for a novice DIYer.
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post #1618 of 4075 Old 06-20-2009, 06:06 PM
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not sure if this should be posted here or in an ffdshow thread...

I'm using the mp4 file version of AVCHD. Playing them on my PC using zoom player/ffdshow using HDMI out to a samsung LCD. I have noticed that,by default, ffdshow is clipping everything outside the 16-235 range. This is using the default YV12 output. If I force it to output RGB32 then I can choose to put out either full range or clipped signal. But I have to force RGB32 output for that to work.

I have 2 questions:

1. Does this mean I should force RGB32 output in ffdshow when calibrating and when watching movies so that the "highlights" above 235 and the blacker than black's below 16 dont get lost? (Obviously though, my black level will be calibrated to not show anything below 16)

2. If I am outputing RGB32 from ffdshow to my video card, what format should my video card send to my TV (over HDMI)? I can choose YCbCr 4:4:4, YCbCr 4:2:2, RGB PC levels, RGB video levels. (my TV can accept all these inputs correctly)
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post #1619 of 4075 Old 06-21-2009, 08:28 AM - Thread Starter
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As far as the first item goes it's really up to you. Some people expand levels and some pass the entire video range, and it's also possible to do things like remapping 16-244 to 0-255 and including some above white. There are long arguments in this forum haggling about video levels vs expanding. If video is your primary importance and you want to be entirely safe then pass the entire video range, but on the other hand computer desktops are generally expected to use 0-255 for black to white. There appears to be limited, if any, above white information contained on a majority of video discs, but I also think CRT probably tends to display some above white if any information appears there as the video specifications allow. You could read the arguments if you want, but generally the fact is that video and computers use different ranges and it's your choice how you want to deal with it. If you expand you'll lose any above white information, but generally computers aren't really intended for running video levels.
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post #1620 of 4075 Old 06-23-2009, 09:59 PM
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PS3 has 2 settings: 16-244 and 0-255 for output.
What should I choose?
According to the game? Or blu-ray movie?
What page of AVS HD 709 do I need to use particularly for calibration the corresponding setting.

Thanks.
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