AVS HD 709 - Blu-ray & MP4 Calibration - Page 67 - AVS Forum
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post #1981 of 4034 Old 02-12-2010, 05:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dreamercross View Post

Yeah, that's what my settings are with the exception that my RGB is set to full. Isn't full better? And my TV has an option called Dynamic Contrast. It looks a lot better when turned on but I heard it's better to turn it off so I tried calibrating my TV with it off and I still can't get it to look as good.

You want RBG set to "limited" (that's 16-235) and you want super white set to "on"
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post #1982 of 4034 Old 02-12-2010, 07:57 PM
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Originally Posted by rfbrown94 View Post

You want RBG set to "limited" (that's 16-235) and you want super white set to "on"

why do you want it set to limited?
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post #1983 of 4034 Old 02-12-2010, 08:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jangaboo View Post

why do you want it set to limited?

Because it's the correct setting for video signals (16-235). Full is for computer levels (0-255). It makes a difference.
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post #1984 of 4034 Old 02-13-2010, 04:50 PM
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Are the MP4-clips rendered in 16-235 or in fullrange 0-255?

I tried it on Optoma HD81LV and found that I could actualy see from 0-255 (ie BTB and WTW). Is this bad, should I aim for 16-235 even if I cant get the black darker (0) with decreased brightness?

I have Nvidia drivers set to 0-255 Full range output and CoreAVC set to 0-255 in both input and output with RGB32 selected for Output format.


On a side note:
In Nvidia drivers there is an option for Digital Color Format for RGB and YCBCR444. In which I have choosen RGB but it seems this settings is only valid until I restart the computer. Then I need to put a computermonitor on to force it to RGB again and then attach the PJ else it will switch to YCBCR even if it says RGB in nvidia settings, optoma menu says YCBCR in. If I switch on the PJ it will fall back to YCBCR oddly.
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post #1985 of 4034 Old 02-20-2010, 03:41 PM
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This question has probably been asked before, but doing a quick thread search I was not able to find the answer. Is there a version of this disc available in individual .MKV files so that I can play the pattern groups directly on my PC using MPC-HC (and its default decoders)? Using Eac3to I have found 29 "playlists" and I can convert them to .MKV myself, but I have no reference as to what each of the 29 playlists represent in patterns.

What would work just as well for me would be a list of the 29 playlists and what they contain, hopefully in order...

Edit: BTW, I am using AVCHD-v1_3.iso as my source.

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post #1986 of 4034 Old 02-20-2010, 07:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Sorel View Post

This question has probably been asked before, but doing a quick thread search I was not able to find the answer. Is there a version of this disc available in individual .MKV files so that I can play the pattern groups directly on my PC using MPC-HC (and its default decoders)? Using Eac3to I have found 29 "playlists" and I can convert them to .MKV myself, but I have no reference as to what each of the 29 playlists represent in patterns.

What would work just as well for me would be a list of the 29 playlists and what they contain, hopefully in order...

Edit: BTW, I am using AVCHD-v1_3.iso as my source.

Did you try the MP4 files linked in the first thread?
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post #1987 of 4034 Old 02-21-2010, 04:50 AM
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Thanks, Cal87. The MP4 versions play just fine, but they don't seem to contain any chapter information, making it cumbersome to switch between patterns. I have already made up a set of 29 .MKV files, so I just need to label them correctly. Maybe by comparing the disc (which I need to play in a standalone Blu-ray player) to the 29 .MKV's I can figure out which set is which. I just thought that maybe someone had already done the work, seeing that the HTPC is still so popular.

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post #1988 of 4034 Old 02-21-2010, 10:47 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xayide View Post

Are the MP4-clips rendered in 16-235 or in fullrange 0-255?

The video clips are intended to be standard video levels. Generally this is stated as 16-235, but the levels actually range from 1-254. In video 16 is intended as black and with a computer signal 0 is black.

Quote:


I tried it on Optoma HD81LV and found that I could actualy see from 0-255 (ie BTB and WTW). Is this bad, should I aim for 16-235 even if I cant get the black darker (0) with decreased brightness?

If you want to be able to see 235-254 is debatable, but generally you don't want to be able to see 1-16 with your final settings. If the display is set based on the input signal there is usually more than enough range to set brightness too low, but I'm not familiar with the projector to comment further.

Quote:


I have Nvidia drivers set to 0-255 Full range output and CoreAVC set to 0-255 in both input and output with RGB32 selected for Output format.

I'm again not familiar with either the Nvidia or CoreAVC settings, but I'll assume that you are preserving the video (16-235) levels within the computer output. In such a case the display should probably be set to expect video levels (if possible), rather than computer levels. Setting the display to expect video levels will cause the loss of the computer information for 1-16, meaning that normal computer levels will be too dark. On the other hand setting the display to expect computer levels will probably mean that you might not be able to lower brightness enough for video black to be the darkest level on-screen, which seemed to be what you said previously. Another way to handle things would be to expand the video so that it is output as computer levels.


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post #1989 of 4034 Old 02-21-2010, 12:15 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Sorel View Post

Using Eac3to I have found 29 "playlists"

I'm not familiar with the program. I think the AVCHD has 44 playlists to match the number of video clips. The title numbers are in the PDF, but the AVCHD has a rather simple order. For example basic settings, title 1, should be clip 0. I believe everything on the AVCHD is arranged like that, so that the clips and playlist numbers are just the title number minus 1.

For a more complex layout like the HDMV, the navigation can be followed with BDedit from http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=125903 In BDedit the title numbers listed in the PDF are the numbers that appear under index.bdmv. Say for example you wanted to know which clip was played by title 44. You would choose 44 in the index.bdmv list. Then you would look for "Play PL #" under MovieObject.bdmv at the right. When you click on the Play PL line it would take you to the playlist for that title number, and the video name is listed in the playlist area.


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post #1990 of 4034 Old 02-22-2010, 01:02 PM
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I have read that blue filters don't work well for Pioneer Plasmas. Is there a better/different one than the DVE/THX/lightingstore.com ones I should use (I know a blue filter is not the most accurate thing to use to begin with) for a 5010?

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post #1991 of 4034 Old 02-22-2010, 02:24 PM
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Thanks, alluringreality,

I was able to match up the .MKV files with the MP4 files. They don't match up exactly (there are 44 "playlists" in the MP4 version and only 29 are recognized by Eac3to in the AVCHD.ISO version), but I was able to figure out what was what pretty easily by comparing them.

Thanks again for your help!

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post #1992 of 4034 Old 02-22-2010, 03:45 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kagolu View Post

I have read that blue filters don't work well for Pioneer Plasmas.

In the flat screen area there is probably a thread for your display. If you don't have the means to measure the display yourself, you could see if there is an average setting reported from people that have measured the display. I'm somewhat assuming here that the displays don't vary too much, which may or may not be the case depending on brand and model.


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post #1993 of 4034 Old 02-22-2010, 03:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alluringreality View Post

In the flat screen area there is probably a thread for your display. If you don't have the means to measure the display yourself, you could see if there is an average setting reported from people that have measured the display.

I'm probably at that setting now. I'm just an incessant tweaker, drives my wife crazy, and don't want to spend the money to get a meter with a baby on the way.
Thanks for the tip though. Very nice disk/mp4/avchd you have going by the way. When I get some time I think I'm going to put some the reference shots form SD DVE( don't have BD DVE yet) together with avchd in one mp4 file for ultra quick reference. My wife is gonna love it!

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post #1994 of 4034 Old 02-24-2010, 07:26 PM
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Hey guys, I'm currently trying to calibrate an LG M237WD monitor/HDTV. When using HDMI, the flashing bars do not show up whatsoever, where I should be seeing 17-25 flashing. I've played around with the picture options turning contrast and brightness up but I am still unable to see them. When using VGA with my PC, I am able to see the flashing bars.
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post #1995 of 4034 Old 02-26-2010, 03:32 PM - Thread Starter
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I am not familiar with the display, and you don't list the player. The player or display could cause clipping of the near blacks.


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post #1996 of 4034 Old 02-27-2010, 05:17 PM
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First thank you for this great tool!!!!

Now I need some help in figuring out what I am doing wrong.

I have a ATI 5700 series card hook to a Samsung 46B750 through HDMI. Playing the setup disc with TMT3.

I went through the basic settings for setting Brightness and Contrast setting as the instructions say, my contrast end up 100 and brightness 20, 17 and up flashing. With these settings it is way dark watching BluRay, I feel like I need brightness about 40 to have a good picture but then I can see all the black bars flashing.


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post #1997 of 4034 Old 02-28-2010, 12:32 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mopar_Mudder View Post

brightness 20, 17 and up flashing. With these settings it is way dark watching BluRay, I feel like I need brightness about 40 to have a good picture

The primary purpose of the brightness control is to set where the image begins increasing in brightness. You want black from the video to be the absolute darkest part of the image, and that's mainly what brightness is meant to set. If you adjust the brightness control too high then video black is lighter than it could be. The main downside of setting brightness too high is that you reduce the TV's available contrast, and dark scenes will not be as dark as they could be.

On many LCDs there are more controls than just brightness and contrast that will affect the light output of the TV. Some LCDs offer backlight controls that allow for a brighter image, but I don't know what the LED TVs offer in this area. A few TVs offer an adjustable gamma, and by altering gamma that could also affect light output in the middle-grayscale somewhat similar to increasing brightness. In the CNET review they do mention gamma increasing near black, but still I would think the TV could generally have brightness set no higher than maybe the sort of range the APL Clipping Pattern might suggest.

It's also possible that levels could be changing somewhere, but without anything else to go on I have to assume the above quote is just a subjective impression. The easiest way to check HD video levels is probably by comparison against known levels, for example comparing a very dark video against say RGB 0 or 16. I checked my computer and I didn't see see any variation between the Patched version and DVE Basics on TMT3. Of course on my setup I can't see below black or above white without changing Avivo Video settings, or possibly TMT3 settings. As far as what your video card and drivers are doing, http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1179134 would have far better feedback than I could.


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post #1998 of 4034 Old 02-28-2010, 01:36 PM
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I did try differnt levels of back lighting and things but if I raise back light I have to lower brightness more yet, back light in on 4 out of 10 right now

I have been trying to follow that thread, and really it is way over my head... I started with a G45 on board chip and had great picture with 0 problems, well then the HDMI port went bad on the mother board. So I figured I would thorugh this ATI card in and get to enjoing BluRay again, this thing is a royal pain. First I had all kinds of issues trying to get Media Center and TMT to show the same black levels, well I ended up setting the dynamic range to 16-235 and that seems to have got it. But maybe that is what it causing me problems I don't know. I know you can't watch movies at the levels that using the test patterns suggest, it is way dark (black)


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post #1999 of 4034 Old 02-28-2010, 03:01 PM - Thread Starter
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When my ATI card was still fairly new the drivers had some issues, and it took a number of months before they were sorted out. Assuming levels do match between Windows Media Center and TMT, you could try setting brightness by playing the MP4 version in WMC. So far I have not yet ran across a clear example of a player that displayed the versions here much differently than commercial Blu-rays, but if you have happened to run across one then Digital Video Essentials HD Basics would be a better reference for setting brightness. If you use Netflix they should have the disc.


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post #2000 of 4034 Old 03-07-2010, 08:50 AM
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Is there a downloadable DVD disc? I am getting ready to head over to my mother inlaws to calibrate her older Sony RPTV, but she only has a DVD player and my AVS709 disc will not work over there! I guess if I have to I will take my Panny BD60 blu ray player with me and my other equipment, but I was hoping to calibrate off of the component cables and player that she actually uses instead of HDMI and a blu ray that she does not have.

Thanks,
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post #2001 of 4034 Old 03-07-2010, 08:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slosvt View Post

Is there a downloadable DVD disc? I am getting ready to head over to my mother inlaws to calibrate her older Sony RPTV, but she only has a DVD player and my AVS709 disc will not work over there! I guess if I have to I will take my Panny BD60 blu ray player with me and my other equipment, but I was hoping to calibrate off of the component cables and player that she actually uses instead of HDMI and a blu ray that she does not have.

Thanks,

This is a Blu-ray calibration disc. It fits on DVD but will not play on a DVD player.

You might look for DVD calibration discs. THX Optimizer is free and included on many commercial discs.

GetGray is downloadable but not free.

Otherwise there is DVE, Avia, etc.

-Bill


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post #2002 of 4034 Old 03-07-2010, 09:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slosvt View Post

Is there a downloadable DVD disc? I am getting ready to head over to my mother inlaws to calibrate her older Sony RPTV, but she only has a DVD player and my AVS709 disc will not work over there! I guess if I have to I will take my Panny BD60 blu ray player with me and my other equipment, but I was hoping to calibrate off of the component cables and player that she actually uses instead of HDMI and a blu ray that she does not have.

Thanks,

Check out this link. There's a file you can download for a DVD player.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=852536

Bob.
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post #2003 of 4034 Old 03-07-2010, 09:45 AM
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Thank you for the link. I really wish that free one had a cross hatch pattern, but I am very happy for what it has!

I have yet to calibrate a RPTV, only LCD and Plasma. Should I use window like I do with flat panel displays or the field patterns for the Sony WS-RPTV? Does anyone know if the Sony has gamma controls?
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post #2004 of 4034 Old 03-07-2010, 04:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slosvt View Post

Thank you for the link. I really wish that free one had a cross hatch pattern, but I am very happy for what it has!

I have yet to calibrate a RPTV, only LCD and Plasma. Should I use window like I do with flat panel displays or the field patterns for the Sony WS-RPTV? Does anyone know if the Sony has gamma controls?

D0n't worry about not having a crosshatch pattern on you. All RPTVs I've ever encountered have an internal calibration pattern if their R, G,and B panels are user adjustable, that is.

In A/V reproduction accuracy, there is no concept of "accounting for taste". We don't "pick" the level of bass any more than we get to pick the ending of a play. High fidelity is an unbiased, neutral, exact copy (or "reproduction") of the original source's tonal balance, timing, dynamics, etc..

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post #2005 of 4034 Old 03-08-2010, 10:50 AM
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I did some testing this past weekend on a Magnavox NB530MGX. Based on the recommendations for the NB500MG9 in your table, I began with the PATCHED version, but it definitely did NOT work. The player would not recognize the disk as valid.

I do not have a Blu-Ray burner, but saw that it may be possible to burn the HDMV version onto a DVD using ImgBurn. This is what I did and it worked great! ImgBurn recognized the content as Blu-Ray even though burning to a DVD and the player recognized it that way also. I did not try the AVCHD version because it was not recommended to begin with.

PLAYER COMPATIBLE VERSIONS NOTES
Magnavox NB500MG9 HDMV?, PATCHED?
Magnavox NB530MGX HDMV HDMV on DVD media tested as working

Thanks very much for all your efforts!!! This makes testing a whole lot easier.
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post #2006 of 4034 Old 03-09-2010, 12:59 PM
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Hi, I am having a somewhat difficulties with my D1 LT calibration display on my front projector screen and wondering if I was to get the D2 with the Calman home package would help me more than the HFCR so called manual, understand that the Sypder display would be better for me but have read that is having to many problems.
Thanks

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post #2007 of 4034 Old 03-09-2010, 03:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zapper View Post

Hi, I am having a somewhat difficulties with my D1 LT calibration display on my front projector screen and wondering if I was to get the D2 with the Calman home package would help me more than the HFCR so called manual

They are the same meter -- the difference between a D2 and an LT is the X-Rite software bundle which isn't used if you're using video calibration software like C-HCFR, CalMAN, ChromaPure etc.

Now a random meter purchased off Ebay, Amazon, B&H etc. may net you an old one that has stability problems while a meter purchased from SpectraCal will have a degree of support.


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post #2008 of 4034 Old 03-09-2010, 03:54 PM
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Thanks, so the software does not matter, the one sold by Calman.

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post #2009 of 4034 Old 03-17-2010, 01:40 PM
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I have read a few pages and have not come across the question I am about to ask, so here goes:

I have burnt a AVCHD ISO to a DVD+RW and it works on my Sony S350 HD player.

Is it alright to use a DVD+RW disc?

Thanks
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post #2010 of 4034 Old 03-17-2010, 01:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kagolu View Post

I have read that blue filters don't work well for Pioneer Plasmas. Is there a better/different one than the DVE/THX/lightingstore.com ones I should use (I know a blue filter is not the most accurate thing to use to begin with) for a 5010?

Where have you heard this?
I have a 436XDE Pioneer plasma.
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