AVS HD 709 - Blu-ray & MP4 Calibration - Page 77 - AVS Forum
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post #2281 of 4034 Old 10-02-2010, 01:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Chere View Post

So as a newbie without any experience who's just looking to improve my set's PQ- would you suggest AVS HD or Spear's and Munsil?

S&M would be better for beginners. The DVE HD Basics disc has even more tutorial material.

-Bill


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post #2282 of 4034 Old 10-03-2010, 07:32 AM - Thread Starter
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HD Nation did a 4-segment HDTV Calibration series that demonstrates how to set basic user controls. The first segment is in http://revision3.com/hdnation/hdcalibration#rev3Player and it continues in episodes 57-59. On an upcoming revision the video segments will be included for new users in the AVCHD and HDMV downloads, but the same video can be currently viewed at HD Nation.


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post #2283 of 4034 Old 10-03-2010, 01:20 PM
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Really great for my 19:9 screen and Media Player Classic HC!

But i wonder now for my new screen, if there is a native 2.35:1 geometry (1920x817 pixles) in this?

..Or where i perhaps can download one (mp4 or so)

Thanks!
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post #2284 of 4034 Old 10-03-2010, 02:50 PM - Thread Starter
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There is an item in Misc Patterns for a general 2.35:1 screen height check. I think I used 818 pixels, but the movies I looked at that were marked 2.35:1 did not appear to use the same number of vertical pixels. The version in http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...1#post19224071 has more items to check geometry.


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post #2285 of 4034 Old 10-04-2010, 05:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wmcclain View Post

S&M would be better for beginners. The DVE HD Basics disc has even more tutorial material.

-Bill

As bodosom aptly has pointed out (several times) S&M is not intended to be a general purpose calibration source. Although it is quite useful for brightness/contrast adjustment the chief purpose is to reveal flaws in the video processing chain.

IMO showing errors in video processing such as inverse Telecine especially for odd cadences, often used in Amine material, de-interlacing an scaling faults, jaggies among others, are the primary subject for S&M analysis and it is very good at that. The clipping pattern is especially useful as well.

One obvious difficulty is to separate which component in the chain is responsible. If the player has source direct, Oppo 80/83, the TV is the culprit. If the player feeds an AVR with an advanced video processor there may be 3 components to deal with.

BR players with component out may disable some processing when set to 480i.

For most users wanting to calibrate AVSHD is a very good choice and will be even more useful when the ChromaPure pattern sequence is added for those using that software.

Interestingly I have had good results using Tom's pattern disc in my 10 year old Panasonic S97. Old timers my remember the high rating that DVD player has on the old DVD shootout site. The S97 was rated just short of a much more expensive Denon.
The Panny was among few that would recognize and switch from Rec604 to 709 based on the video content.

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post #2286 of 4034 Old 10-05-2010, 12:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alluringreality View Post

HD Nation did a 4-segment HDTV Calibration series that demonstrates how to set basic user controls. The first segment is in http://revision3.com/hdnation/hdcalibration#rev3Player and it continues in episodes 57-59. On an upcoming revision the video segments will be included for new users in the AVCHD and HDMV downloads, but the same video can be currently viewed at HD Nation.

I wonder what Patrick Norton was up to since the days of ZDnet, TechTV.
Great show they have there.
Bookmarked.
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post #2287 of 4034 Old 10-05-2010, 04:19 PM
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Love this great video calibration software! Alluringreality, thanks for your effort and time getting this out to the world. A question for all though:

Is there an analogous version for audio we can download from another thread in AVSforums somewhere? I have several calibration CDs I've bought over the years but would like to have a version that I also can recommend to others that can be downloaded and burned to a blank CDR. Test tones like 1 kHz sine waves at various levels, spot frequencies, sweeps, and pink noise was what I'm after. Anyone? [sorry if this has already been asked]

In A/V reproduction accuracy, there is no concept of "accounting for taste". We don't "pick" the level of bass any more than we get to pick the ending of a play. High fidelity is an unbiased, neutral, exact copy (or "reproduction") of the original source's tonal balance, timing, dynamics, etc..

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post #2288 of 4034 Old 10-05-2010, 07:09 PM
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Alright, I'm going to sound extremely stupid because I'm a complete newbie at calibrating TV's.

I recently ordered at Mitsubishi WD-65738 and am waiting for it in the mail. I also ordered the X-Rite Eye-One LT to calibrate it. I'm still waiting on both. So in the mean while I was looking for a Calibrating DVD, when I found this thread.

Being a complete newbie and all I downloaded the HD DVD and MP4 and burned them on 2 seperate DVD's, but none of were able to play on my newer vesion of the XBOX 360.

I don't know if I downloaded the correct ones or used the wrong blank DVD. Can someone please help me.

Thanks in advance.
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post #2289 of 4034 Old 10-06-2010, 06:17 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Apaste View Post

I downloaded the HD DVD and MP4 and burned them on 2 seperate DVD's, but none of were able to play on my newer vesion of the XBOX 360.

The Xbox only played HD DVD with an extra accessory, so it will not work.

I'll expect the newest Xbox model works similar to the prior models and requires an online update to play the MP4 encode. Did you have the Xbox connected to the internet when you tried to play the DVD with the MP4 video fies? I'll assume that you decompressed the download before buring to the dvd.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...1#post19224071 is a newer and hopefully more useful mp4 encode, but it also requires decompression and will likely also need the player to be connected to the internet to play the first time.


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post #2290 of 4034 Old 10-06-2010, 10:31 AM
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Originally Posted by alluringreality View Post

The Xbox only played HD DVD with an extra accessory, so it will not work.

I'll expect the newest Xbox model works similar to the prior models and requires an online update to play the MP4 encode. Did you have the Xbox connected to the internet when you tried to play the DVD with the MP4 video fies? I'll assume that you decompressed the download before buring to the dvd.

I figured it out and burned the DVD correctly and tried to run it on my XBox but like you said, it needed to be connected to the internet. I brought my XBox to work with me and am hooking it up to my laptop, since I dont have internet at home. But I don't know how to switch between the actual laptop screen and XBox screen. Help please.

Yes, I decompressed and burned them into a Blank DVD disc. But now should I used the old MP4 or use the newer MP4 codec that you posted?
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post #2291 of 4034 Old 10-06-2010, 11:06 AM - Thread Starter
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Generally the newer MP4 version makes more sense for most applications.

I know it's possible to share internet from a laptop, but most laptop do not have connections to display an external source. Most likely you will need some other display.


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post #2292 of 4034 Old 10-06-2010, 11:46 AM
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Originally Posted by alluringreality View Post

Generally the newer MP4 version makes more sense for most applications.

I know it's possible to share internet from a laptop, but most laptop do not have connections to display an external source. Most likely you will need some other display.

Alright. Yeah, your right. My laptops more than likely only has HDMI out. I will just walk over to my neighbors shop and use his HDTV and internet to update my XBOX.

Quick question, even tho the XBOX only displays 1080i and the MP4 codec is burned in the form of a DVD and not an HD DVD. Could I still get a fairly accurate reading from the X-Rite Eye-One LT? or would they be incorrect due to the fact that its not 1080p or a HD DVD?
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post #2293 of 4034 Old 10-06-2010, 08:18 PM - Thread Starter
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When you play the video and use the meter, you are measuring how your electronics deal with HD MP4 video from that source. So in the example, you would know how your Xbox performs with HD MP4 video on that TV input. There are basically three variables in the example: the source (Xbox), the display (TV), and the input (Component?). If you change any of the three variables you may possibly change how your electronics deal with the HD MP4 video. So if you swapped out the source, changing the Xbox for a Blu-ray player, that could possibly change the measurements even if the TV and input remained the same. The main idea here is that the measurements are specific to the source and input, and changing the source (video player) or input (component, HDMI, VGA) could possibly affect the measurements.

Generally the simplest thing to do is to start by calibrating for a source that you will be watching most often. Personally I mainly watch Blu-rays, so I measure either the HDMV or AVCHD from my Blu-ray player. That way I have a good idea how my Blu-ray player and TV deal with HD video on that HDMI input. From the measurements I know how my most often used source (Blu-ray player) works with HD MP4 video on the display (TV) for that input (HDMI). By using the HDMV or AVCHD on my Blu-ray player I don't necessarily know how another source, like an Xbox, would play HD MP4 video.

Note: When I have calibrated for each of my sources it happens that they are all very similar and can use the same display settings, but there are too many variables to simply expect this sort of behavior.


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post #2294 of 4034 Old 10-07-2010, 01:08 PM
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Originally Posted by alluringreality View Post

When you play the video and use the meter, you are measuring how your electronics deal with HD MP4 video from that source. So in the example, you would know how your Xbox performs with HD MP4 video on that TV input. There are basically three variables in the example: the source (Xbox), the display (TV), and the input (Component?). If you change any of the three variables you may possibly change how your electronics deal with the HD MP4 video. So if you swapped out the source, changing the Xbox for a Blu-ray player, that could possibly change the measurements even if the TV and input remained the same. The main idea here is that the measurements are specific to the source and input, and changing the source (video player) or input (component, HDMI, VGA) could possibly affect the measurements.

Generally the simplest thing to do is to start by calibrating for a source that you will be watching most often. Personally I mainly watch Blu-rays, so I measure either the HDMV or AVCHD from my Blu-ray player. That way I have a good idea how my Blu-ray player and TV deal with HD video on that HDMI input. From the measurements I know how my most often used source (Blu-ray player) works with HD MP4 video on the display (TV) for that input (HDMI). By using the HDMV or AVCHD on my Blu-ray player I don't necessarily know how another source, like an Xbox, would play HD MP4 video.

Note: When I have calibrated for each of my sources it happens that they are all very similar and can use the same display settings, but there are too many variables to simply expect this sort of behavior.

Ah, I understand now. Ok, so I'm going to wait a while for the new bulb to burn in and then I will calibrate it with the X-Rite Eye-One LT since all components will be running through my Onkyo receiver in HDMI format.

Thanks for all the help.
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post #2295 of 4034 Old 10-07-2010, 07:45 PM
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Ah, I understand now. Ok, so I'm going to wait a while for the new bulb to burn in and then I will calibrate it with the X-Rite Eye-One LT since all components will be running through my Onkyo receiver in HDMI format.

Thanks for all the help.

You might want to start with your source going direct to the TV, once you get it pretty much on then run it through the receiver. There is no telling what the receiver will do the source material.. watch for clipping.

Just another blank signature.
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post #2296 of 4034 Old 10-09-2010, 07:03 AM
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Sendspace is blocked here in Saudi Arabia so I took the liberty and uploaded to Rapidshare..

I added the file to my trafficshare download. Which means it can be downloaded free and with full speed.

http://rapidshare.com/files/424032941/PATCHED-v1_3b.exe

Thanks for the great efforts guys..
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post #2297 of 4034 Old 10-11-2010, 12:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alluringreality View Post

There is an item in Misc Patterns for a general 2.35:1 screen height check. I think I used 818 pixels, but the movies I looked at that were marked 2.35:1 did not appear to use the same number of vertical pixels. The version in http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...1#post19224071 has more items to check geometry.

the 2.35 pattern is in fact 818. I would add a 2.4 pattern or add a 2.4 (1920x800) right with the 2.35 pattern. just mark that location with a border.


I have a request for a pattern. could you add some more 2.4 patterns and possibly add a cross hatch pattern with diagonals in the boxes so CRT front projection users can get C and S linearity correct. I run a CRT blend and getting geometry perfect in the blend zone area is critcal.

There is an software program called Align that i try to use but i would rather have a pattern on a BD disc.

Athanasios


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post #2298 of 4034 Old 10-11-2010, 01:33 PM
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Originally Posted by gtgray View Post

You might want to start with your source going direct to the TV, once you get it pretty much on then run it through the receiver. There is no telling what the receiver will do the source material.. watch for clipping.

Will do. When I calibrate my WD-65738 playing the MP4 codec through my XBox 360, in the ColorHCFR do I set it to Rec 709 or Rec 601?
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post #2299 of 4034 Old 10-11-2010, 02:04 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by nashou66 View Post
the 2.35 pattern is in fact 818. I would add a 2.4 pattern or add a 2.4 (1920x800) right with the 2.35 pattern. just mark that location with a border.


I have a request for a pattern. could you add some more 2.4 patterns and possibly add a cross hatch pattern with diagonals in the boxes so CRT front projection users can get C and S linearity correct. I run a CRT blend and getting geometry perfect in the blend zone area is critcal.
I could change the current border to 9 pixels and label the inside 2.4:1, but I don't know how "cross hatch pattern with diagonals" is different than the linked mp4 version. I am not familiar with front projection setup, so any comments in that direction have to be very specific. Attached is an image of the current pattern that could be modified to indicate any changes besides the 2.4:1 note. I am almost done with the new menu layout, and once that happens I don't have any plans for any further revisions.

 

cinema5.zip 129.080078125k . file


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post #2300 of 4034 Old 10-11-2010, 02:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alluringreality View Post

I could change the current border to 9 pixels and label the inside 2.4:1, but I don't know how "cross hatch pattern with diagonals" is different than the linked mp4 version. I am not familiar with front projection setup, so any comments in that direction have to be very specific. Attached is an image of the current pattern that could be modified to indicate any changes besides the 2.4:1 note. I am almost done with the new menu layout, and once that happens I don't have any plans for any further revisions.

That is perfect!!!!! I did not look at the preview version but it will help get linearity perfect.

maybe add the same pattern but with a black back ground instead of grey and with white grid lines, or have both on the disc.

I need to do convergence of the three colors in a 2.40 aspect screen, thats why white grids would work better.

And possibly have it not in a 1.78 window as a native 2.40 aspect? it will only look right on that type display.

Athanasios


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post #2301 of 4034 Old 10-11-2010, 03:34 PM - Thread Starter
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The first three patterns from http://www.pbase.com/jackcnd/convergence will be included in the non-MP4 versions. Between those patterns and the two grids that are included in v1.3, I think that should be enough items for convergence. From my own convergence adjustments I'm not sure diagonal lines would be any help. I did a modification of the current image to see what white on black would look like, and I'm not sure it would be any improvement over the current version if the primary idea is aligning two images.

Someone can correct me if I'm wrong, but mediainfo reported all the movies I looked at as 1920x1080 regardless of how the video is noted on the back of the box. Based on information such as http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=154533 I'm not sure how the video would be encoded any other way for Blu-ray. Currently I don't know of any issue with using 1080p video for the pattern.


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post #2302 of 4034 Old 10-11-2010, 03:39 PM
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For those of us with a ps3, what is the best method to play the mp4 files.

1. Stream from CPU
2. Play from flash drive
3. Copy to ps3 hd
4. Burn a disc
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post #2303 of 4034 Old 10-11-2010, 03:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alluringreality View Post

The first three patterns from http://www.pbase.com/jackcnd/convergence will be included in the non-MP4 versions. Between those patterns and the two grids that are included in v1.3, I think that should be enough items for convergence. From my own convergence adjustments I'm not sure diagonal lines would be any help. I did a modification of the current image to see what white on black would look like, and I'm not sure it would be any improvement over the current version if the primary idea is aligning two images.

Someone can correct me if I'm wrong, but mediainfo reported all the movies I looked at as 1920x1080 regardless of how the video is noted on the back of the box. Based on information such as http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=154533 I'm not sure how the video would be encoded any other way for Blu-ray. Currently I don't know of any issue with using 1080p video for the pattern.


For convergence with a crt its not the issue. but there is a geometry component called linearity. this means the equal distance of the grid lines across the entire screen in the all directions. Its easy to think you have each and every square the same size in a grid on a crt until you watch video and notice that the ships portal windows begin to change shape as it is moving across the screen . The Diagonal line help you correct bad linearity. if its not right the diagonal lines will bend and not be straight. Those lines help with adjusting the center and side linearity of the convergence.

But the pattern you showed me will work but if it had a white grid with black background it be better for CRT Projection owners.

BTW I do love you disc as it is now, I use it all the time for calibrations.

Athanasios


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post #2304 of 4034 Old 10-11-2010, 04:41 PM - Thread Starter
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Here is the same pattern with some modifications. If white lines will work better then it's a reasonable change. If this works I'd probably just note the image heights in the PDF rather than placing text on the image.

 

cinema6.zip 134.298828125k . file
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File Type: zip cinema6.zip (134.3 KB, 0 views)


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post #2305 of 4034 Old 10-11-2010, 05:55 PM
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That worked Great, I just used it. It is still a 2.35 aspect right?

Athanasios


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post #2306 of 4034 Old 10-11-2010, 10:52 PM - Thread Starter
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The outside of the line is 818 pixels and the inside is 800 pixels.


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post #2307 of 4034 Old 10-12-2010, 06:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alluringreality View Post

The outside of the line is 818 pixels and the inside is 800 pixels.


Ahh, great!! hitting the radiance VP's 1.85 button in my 2.35 set up does bring it down. I like both patterns, Kudos to you for these!!

Athanasios


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post #2308 of 4034 Old 10-12-2010, 08:53 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nashou66 View Post

I like both patterns

I haven't found a reliable way to estimate disk and download sizes, but it's looking like the next version may get close to filling a single-layer DVD. Currently the plan is to only include the last pattern named cinema6 in the final release.


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post #2309 of 4034 Old 10-13-2010, 06:05 AM
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Great disc! However, I read through the known issues at the start of this thread. It has probably been mentioned enough times before, but can someone please refresh on the existing known issues?

There was something about the Luma patterns being slightly inaccurate?

Would you be able to elaborate?

I notice that the black level setting is suppose to be 17-25 flashing, however, this doesn't seem to correspond to the DVE black level settings?
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post #2310 of 4034 Old 10-13-2010, 07:16 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by delphiplasma View Post

There was something about the Luma patterns being slightly inaccurate?

The numbers shown on the Black Clipping Pattern are the luma values that are really used for the video encoding. The percentages shown are just an approximation of those luma values. This item has been changed for the next release scheduled for the end of the month. The note for the future release is below.

Grayscale from 5% to 50% was moved one digital level lower to match with Digital Video Essentials HD Basics. This makes the grayscale steps equal, in terms of the digital luma values, except for the first step above black. Previously the uncommon step had been near the middle of the grayscale, instead of above black. This item is primarily related to rounding from the digital luma values to the percentages shown on-screen, but more details from the previous known issue can be found in this comparison or these measurements.

Quote:
I notice that the black level setting is suppose to be 17-25 flashing, however, this doesn't seem to correspond to the DVE black level settings?

There are a few dark-gray levels that DVE doesn't show. I think the first luma level above black on the DVE pattern is 20, and I think AVIA uses 19. If you are trying to get black as dark as possible in a dim room the DVE pattern may allow for clipping a few levels above black (17-19 if 20 is correct). The PDF description for APL Clipping Pattern is intended to take room lighting more into account than the PDF description for Black Clipping Pattern. Again the PDF description may change for the next release. For most digital displays, I would suggest the following:

1) Find where 17 clips by using the Black Clipping Pattern. You can do this in a dark room right up next to the display to negate room lighting. I would suggest not setting brightness darker than this setting.

2) In typical room lighting at a usual viewing location find if you need to increase brightness with the APL Clipping Pattern. As long as you can see 19 to 20 flash in these conditions the setting should generally match with the commercial patterns.


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