AVS HD 709 - Blu-ray & MP4 Calibration - Page 79 - AVS Forum
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post #2341 of 4082 Old 10-21-2010, 07:01 AM
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Any chance an RSS feed of this program could be made? If it were then it could be downloaded to a TiVo and the patterns run from there. It would be handy in a situation where no player is available.
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post #2342 of 4082 Old 10-22-2010, 12:59 PM - Thread Starter
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Like with the monoscope pattern suggestion, someone else would have to take the lead on the RSS feed idea. I have no interest in the RSS item, because I would never use it. Maybe there's value to it, but aside from possibly Zinc I can't say I've ever used one. I might be able to help in some aspects, but primarily I'd encourage someone else to run with the idea.
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post #2343 of 4082 Old 10-22-2010, 02:09 PM
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I have recent experience with 4 blu-ray players relating to compatibility of your fine test material. (The HDMV version I burned to DVD since I don't have a BD burner.)

All three versions (HDMV, PATCHED and, AVCHD) played on a Sony BDP-S1000ES and a Samsung BD-P2550.

Only the HDMV played on the Magnavox NB530MGX A

Only AVCHD and PATCHED played on the Panasonic DMP-BD65.
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post #2344 of 4082 Old 10-22-2010, 03:20 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks for the feedback, I'll include it in the notes for the version planned to release the end of October.
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post #2345 of 4082 Old 10-22-2010, 05:16 PM
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Thanks for this you guys are awesome. I own the avia I and II and have used this with everything in my house including the PS3 and computers. Seems to have everything dialed in pretty tight. I even have my BenQ FP241 VW looking pretty good which is known to be a particular PITA to calibrate.

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post #2346 of 4082 Old 10-25-2010, 08:16 PM
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Hi!

I'm stuck in the "White clipping pattern".

If I turn down "contrast" control I can see all bars 230-253 flashing, but reading the pdf guide I can't decide wether it recomends to keep seeing all the bars or just 230-234. I've been trying both settings and can't make up my mind...

I get confused by this:

Quote:


As long as you can see the bars marked 230-234 flash, essentially clipping is fine and you have finished with this item

wich I understand but then it goes:

Quote:


A more conservative approach is to set white-level no higher than where most all the bars flash. It is perfectly acceptable if your display never clips near 235 and if you can always see the bars brighter than 235 flash, but the minimum is flashing from 230 to 234

English is not my native language and I think I can't get around this

Help will be apreciated
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post #2347 of 4082 Old 10-26-2010, 12:16 AM
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We did tests , we checked many titles , we looked at broadcast.

Conclusions ....very little real picture detail above 235 (especially on films mastered to dvd and BD). Some occasional excursion above 235 on broadcast although even then the exposure was normally very clipped anyway and setting contrast to disclose greater than 235 didn't improve detail levels in the video markedly. (this makes sense if you factor in the non-real time mastering done to film vs the on the fly nature of much broadcast work).

240 seems like a good compromise. I'm actually fine with 235 on most material.

If in doubt ...try it and see what you prefer , think of 235 as the minimum you should disclose.
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post #2348 of 4082 Old 10-26-2010, 01:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr.D View Post

We did tests , we checked many titles , we looked at broadcast.

Conclusions ....very little real picture detail above 235 (especially on films mastered to dvd and BD). Some occasional excursion above 235 on broadcast although even then the exposure was normally very clipped anyway and setting contrast to disclose greater than 235 didn't improve detail levels in the video markedly. (this makes sense if you factor in the non-real time mastering done to film vs the on the fly nature of much broadcast work).

240 seems like a good compromise. I'm actually fine with 235 on most material.

If in doubt ...try it and see what you prefer , think of 235 as the minimum you should disclose.

Well, thank you very much for your response! Greatly helpful, indeed
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post #2349 of 4082 Old 10-26-2010, 09:15 AM - Thread Starter
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I agree with what Mr.D said. The main issue with writing a short description is that all displays do not work the same way. For example my TV always shows all the bars above white, and it makes sense because it color shifts and changes gamma. Other displays will not necessarily have those issues. The following is the current clipping description for the next version, which is planned for release within a week.

As you increase white-level, watch to see if any of the flashing bars disappear. Some displays will show all the bars even on their highest setting, and in that case clipping is good with the highest setting. If white-level on your display can cause bars to stop flashing, we suggest keeping some bars above reference white. A good compromise for displays that show levels above white may be setting white-level so you can still see 244 flash. At minimum 230-234 should always flash. If you cannot see 230-234 flash, then you need to turn down white-level until the levels below reference white flash. Seeing adjacent levels flash can be difficult, so if your display stops at reference white (235), it may be very hard to notice 234 flash.
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post #2350 of 4082 Old 10-26-2010, 09:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr.D View Post

We did tests , we checked many titles , we looked at broadcast.

Conclusions ....very little real picture detail above 235 (especially on films mastered to dvd and BD). Some occasional excursion above 235 on broadcast although even then the exposure was normally very clipped anyway and setting contrast to disclose greater than 235 didn't improve detail levels in the video markedly. (this makes sense if you factor in the non-real time mastering done to film vs the on the fly nature of much broadcast work).

240 seems like a good compromise. I'm actually fine with 235 on most material.

If in doubt ...try it and see what you prefer , think of 235 as the minimum you should disclose.

Some time go I read the entireAVS thread on the topic of above 235 content, especially your posts on the analysis of above 235 content.

Suggest you post a link to that thread here, IMO it would be valuable for members here.

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post #2351 of 4082 Old 10-26-2010, 02:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alluringreality View Post

I agree with what Mr.D said. The main issue with writing a short description is that all displays do not work the same way. For example my TV always shows all the bars above white, and it makes sense because it color shifts and changes gamma. Other displays will not necessarily have those issues. The following is the current clipping description for the next version, which is planned for release within a week.

As you increase white-level, watch to see if any of the flashing bars disappear. Some displays will show all the bars even on their highest setting, and in that case clipping is good with the highest setting. If white-level on your display can cause bars to stop flashing, we suggest keeping some bars above reference white. A good compromise for displays that show levels above white may be setting white-level so you can still see 244 flash. At minimum 230-234 should always flash. If you cannot see 230-234 flash, then you need to turn down white-level until the levels below reference white flash. Seeing adjacent levels flash can be difficult, so if your display stops at reference white (235), it may be very hard to notice 234 flash.

By "white level" do you mean Contrast? Is it called white level on some sets?
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post #2352 of 4082 Old 10-26-2010, 02:42 PM - Thread Starter
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I have a habit of using brightness to mean something other than a TV control, so I used white-level and black-level in the PDF. Far as I know Sony still doesn't name their control contrast.
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post #2353 of 4082 Old 10-28-2010, 02:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alluringreality View Post

I finished up the manual for the new version today.

Just a minor check on something. Page two, under HD Calibration. You say HD Nation episodes 56 to 59. Is episode 59 actually included or not?

If 59 is included, then the correct wording should be "56 through 59" because the word "to" is non-inclusive. If 59 is not included, in order to avoid the issue of questions like this, I'd change it to "56 through 58."

I suspect that you are including episode 59. Therefore, "through" is better than "to."

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post #2354 of 4082 Old 10-29-2010, 07:04 AM - Thread Starter
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Thanks for the feedback. I changed the places where I believe that would apply.
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post #2355 of 4082 Old 10-29-2010, 07:10 AM
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You are welcome.

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post #2356 of 4082 Old 10-29-2010, 10:19 AM
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Manual looks awesome! Thanks and can't wait for the new release!
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post #2357 of 4082 Old 10-30-2010, 12:52 PM - Thread Starter
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GENERAL NOTES
- Due to the number of changes, this release may include unintentional errors. Please report any mistakes you notice.
- Active development of AVS HD 709 has ended. Currently only modifications to address reported authoring issues are planned.
- The Example For Windows Computers in the first post now shows how to check MD5 with ImgBurn.
- Currently we have not included downloads for disc or sleeve labels in the first post.

VERSION 2D REVISION - Nov. 30, 2010
- No changes were made to the MP4 version, and it remains at Version 2c.
- AVCHD version uses HDMV authoring, and it has modified menus with multiAVCHD changes so players will identify the disc as AVCHD. Primarly this change was made in order to correct the reported issue with chapter skipping from the AVCHD version on Panasonic players. Based on previous testing, the authoring is expected to play from any AVCHD player.
- The AVCHD Misc. Patterns. Section D was reduced to one minute chapters to accommodate the authoring changes. This AVCHD modification was required for the disc to remain single-layer DVD size.
- Because the AVCHD is based off of HDMV authoring, the AVCHD currently includes popup menus for any players that can show them.
- The current AVCHD Top Menu button returns to the main menu as generally intended, or chapter skipping to the end of a video section usually also returns to the last menu. This behavior is different than the v1.3 AVCHD, which used an unusual top menu configuration. If you still wish to use the Top Menu button, instead of using chapter skips to return to the last menu, the AVCHD Main Menu has been configured to require a minimum number of button presses to select sub-menus.
- Removed Misc. Patterns C3, C4, C5 from the AVCHD, due to previously reported issues and lack of an alternate authoring method.
- AVCHD menus keep most of the menu navigation within 2.4:1 height as requested.
- End of video navigation on the HDMV was changed to match the AVCHD. Video section now typically return to the last menu by chapter skipping to the end, although this behavior does not apply to the Misc. Patterns F though L sections that repeat. The popup menu navigation allows for quickly returning to chapter 1 in measurement sections by pressing popup then left.
- Corrected Misc. Patterns menu note on the HDMV version to show Section J as 60 Sec.
- Made the minor correction to remove “& Quick Jump” text from single-chapter popup menus that do not have quick jump controls included.
- Patterns manual was updated for clarifications and to indicate the most recent changes.
- Minor change to HDMV menu color sets, so there is a different color displayed when items are selected from the menus.

VERSION 2C REVISION - Nov. 27, 2010
- Removed the unused 0% Black pattern from the end of ChromaPure Gamma sections.
- Corrected HDMV version Title Button navigation to go to Main Menu.
- Corrected HDMV version Meter Position navigation on the CalMAN Windows menu.
- Minor encoding change for HDTV Calibration video in HDMV and AVCHD.
- Minor credits change to match general order in acknowledgments.
- Switched primary file host in an attempt to address prior issues, and dr1394 has offered to mirror the downloads.
- Updated to the latest 7-Zip 9.20 release to create LMZA compression.

VERSION 2A PROJECT CHANGES - Oct. 30, 2010
- HD Nation video was added to the AVCHD and HDMV versions, and it appears in the menu as HDTV Calibration. The MP4 version does not include the HD Nation video, but the first post has links to the online episodes. The AVC video is not compressible like the test patterns, which makes the related downloads much larger than the previous versions. While this project started primarily as a way to take measurements, many current users may be new to calibration. The HD Nation video has been included for some background on how to adjust basic user settings, because we thought they did a good job on the series. We have generally tried to avoid changing AVS HD 709 items shown in the video, but there will be a few differences, such as the look of the APL Clipping pattern and main menu. HD Nation Episode 58 had an issue with one of the cameras, as they addressed in Episode 59, so the segment on color controls shares the issue and overall does not look as good as the other video.
- HDMV menu navigation has changed to use links along the top of the screen, which allows for quickly moving between areas without returning to the main menu.
- HDMV popup menus are narrower, so they should allow more unobstructed area for center measurements. The unobstructed area is primarily intended for CalMAN measurements that would require popup menu navigation to supply the expected patterns. Popup menus for Grayscale sections now include links to go to the color patterns, so you can measure a grayscale and color run without returning to the previous menu. A quick jump feature has been added to the popup menus. Opening the popup menu and pressing left should return to chapter 1 for most sections. Opening the popup menu and pressing right will quick jump to different locations depending on the section, for example the right quick jump for CalMAN measurement sections will go to chapter 2.
- The HD DVD version has been discontinued. Links to download the last HD DVD version and manual will be provided later in these notes.
- The PATCHED version has been discontinued, because it no longer provides enough added functions to justify another version.
- The HDMV version is now offered as a UDF 2.5 .iso file for burning. Based on available information, this should allow for burning the version to BD-RE, BD-R, or DVD media. DVDM now appears in the Blu-ray Players List to represent the option of burning HDMV to DVD media. Ideally the current AVCHD and HDMV versions will support all compatible players.
- The MP4 version now includes individual files for each video pattern, which should make the MP4 easier to use.
- The Patterns Manual has been changed to a single PDF that documents the HDMV version. Differences for the AVCHD and MP4 versions will be indicated either in the manual or in the notes for the downloads. The PDF now uses Microsoft true type Arial, Georgia, Trebuchet, and Verdana fonts, which should allow it to print correctly from more computers. The orientation has changed to landscape so that the chapters would fit more logically, and hopefully it will be easier to read on wide-screen monitors. The document was created in Word, and the PDF was exported with OpenOffice after turning off symbol bolding on page 15.
- All AVC video has been encoded using recent online information and x264 version.
- Image files were created using the current 2.5.2.0 version of ImgBurn.

VERSION 2A PATTERN CHANGES - Oct. 30, 2010
- AVC video test patterns have generally been adjusted to 5 minutes in length, in order to provide more time to use the patterns before they automatically change. Lengthening the video has increased the download and file sizes.
- Text was dimmed slightly on the Black Clipping pattern and the middle portion of the APL Clipping pattern. Reducing the brightness of the text may make the flashing bars easier to see on some high contrast displays. Some video decoders show a bit of flashing that was intensified if using darker text, so the current levels were a compromise between bright and dark text.
- APL Clipping was modified to move reference white and black to the horizontal center of the screen. The additional levels below white allow more range to see the flashing bars on displays that are clipping below white. The bright portion of APL Clipping now flashes to 248, instead of 254.
- Added notes to the Sharpness & Overscan pattern that the outside single pixel line indicates no overscan. Also included squares with vertical and horizontal lines on a darker gray to fit with the preference stated in the HD Nation video on sharpness.
- The previous Constant Height 2.35:1 pattern was renamed Front Projection. The outside edges of the horizontal aqua-blue lines is still 818 pixels for a 2.35:1 image height, and the inside edges of the horizontal aqua-blue lines is now 800 pixels for a 2.4:1 image height. The background of the pattern was changed to show squares and diagonal lines, and circles were added to the center. The image changes were made to provide additional ways to check geometry for front projection setup.
- Grayscale from 5% to 50% was moved one digital level lower to match with Digital Video Essentials HD Basics. This makes the grayscale steps equal, in terms of the digital luma values, except for the first step above black. Previously the uncommon step had been near the middle of the grayscale, instead of above black. This item is primarily related to rounding from the digital luma values to the percentages shown on-screen, but more details from the previous known issue can be found in this comparison or these measurements.
- The ColorHCFR section titled Near Black now only provides patterns to match with the default setting for “Number of near black levels”. Previously the series was set according to the default output from ColorHCFR, but currently the luma values above black have been moved one level lower to correspond with the change to 5% Grayscale listed above. The steps between the Near Black patterns are now equal, and the previous uneven step between 0% and 1% has been removed.
- The ColorHCFR section titled Near White was also reduced to match with the default setting for “Number of near white levels”. No levels were altered in the Near White series, so they still match with the output from ColorHCFR. This alteration in the number of patterns offered was simply made to correspond with the change to Near Black.
- Removed previous pattern titled RGB Low Clipping from project, because the original intent can generally be handled by other patterns.
- Renamed previous RGB High Clipping pattern to Color Clipping. This pattern was modified to include more levels below Red, Green, and Blue for displays that are clipping colors.
- Changed Misc. Patterns Section A to primarily serve as Additional patterns for black-level and white-level. Flashing Primary Colors and Flashing Color Decoder have been moved to Section B.
- Misc. Patterns Section B still serves as Various patterns from the project that do not fit into other categories. The crosshatch patterns have been moved to a new Misc Patterns Section C.
- Misc. Patterns Section C now contains patterns primarily focused on Convergence, but the crosshatch patterns could also be used for geometry adjustments. The requested convergence patterns have been added by permission. These patterns were created using images on the HDMV and AVCHD versions, while the MP4 uses video for the first two patterns.
- Misc. Patterns E now includes 75% Color Windows and 75% Color Fields, and the video has not been flagged. These 75% Color patterns can be measured and compared with the flagged 75% Color video from the CalMAN, ChromaPure, or ColorHCFR Windows or Fields sections. In the comparison you would check to see if color remains the same for both the unflagged video from Misc. Patterns E and the flagged video found in the other sections. Ideally the color should not change regardless if the video for the 75% Color has been flagged.
- Misc. Patterns F includes flagged and unflagged video for a visual check to see if color remains the same for both videos. The HDMV and AVCHD versions automatically switch between the two clips, while the MP4 version would require switching between clips using the video player. Ideally the color should not change regardless which clip is played.
- Misc. Patterns K is a newly added video from dr1394 that uses progressive video, where the alternating frames are labeled 1 and 2. This is Mpeg2 video that is not included in the AVCHD or MP4 versions, like the other Misc. Patterns G to L that are also from dr1394.
- Due to other Misc. Patterns changes, some Misc. Patterns sections now use a different letter than on the previous version but are otherwise unchanged.
- Because of menu changes and to limit disc size, ColorHCFR and CalMAN sections no longer include duplicate patterns for setting black-level and white-level. The adjustment patterns can be found in Basic Settings and Misc. Patterns A, and a popup menu link is provided between the sections. The ColorHCFR grayscale patterns from Adjust Gray have been placed in a new 25% Grayscale section.
- CalMAN sections have been rearranged and renamed to match CalMAN v4 pattern layouts. CalMAN measurement patterns no longer use 30 second chapters, and they are now the same length as all other sections. We are aware the new 5 Step series is not backward compatible with the 6 step option from CalMAN v3, and for simplicity we have chosen to make the pattern layout consistent for CalMAN v4. The 2 Step option was not added because it does not start with white like the other sections, and the 3 Step video could be used instead for some measurements. We have chosen to leave color choices at 75% and 100%. Only 11 and 21 step patterns include above white measurements in CalMAN software, but all window and field series include above white to be consistent with other sections. Each section begins with white and you will be taken to that location by selecting chapter 1 from the menus, or you can choose to go to the chapter 2 from the CalMAN menus. The chapter 1 and 2 options allow for the different measurement selections in CalMAN software.
- Sections were added to support ChromaPure v2. Gamma sections include an unused pattern for 0% at the end. Grayscale series for windows and fields include above white at the end to be consistent with the other measurement sections.
- APL measurement patterns have been moved, off of the windows menus, onto separate menus. The large and small series have also been split into separate sections. The APL series will not offer all the options available for fields or windows. APL 25% series have been added for ColorHCFR, and APL 3 Step series have been added for CalMAN. The APL series are not described as windows in any documentation, simply to avoid confusion with typical window patterns.
- The Contrast sections for window and field measurements had the order of patterns 3 and 4 reversed, for black then white to match with the first two patterns. Previously the ANSI Contrast patterns used levels 1 and 254 to match the output from ColorHCFR, but they have been changed to use levels 16 (black) and 235 (white) to match with the grayscale range commonly found on commercial Blu-ray video. A new Meter Position pattern has been added to the end of the contrast sections to locate measurements in the center of each rectangle for patterns 5 and 6.
- New Meter Position patterns were added for Windows, Fields, and APL patterns.
- Dynamic & Center pattern was renamed Dynamic Brightness, although it still retains the center mark.

PREVIOUS NOTES
v1.3b Update Notes (7/26/09)
v1.3 Update Notes (5/24/09)
AVCHD v1.2b Revision (1/12/09)
v1.2 Release Notes (1/11/09)
AVS HD 709 v1.0 Update (11/1/08)
Release Candidate 1 (2/12/08)
Notes on Authoring Process


LAST HD DVD VERSION
v1.3 HD DVD (.7z) or DOWNLOAD MIRROR
Plays on: Only HD DVD players.
Burn to: DVD writable media with a DVD burner.
Includes: A limited number of the v1.3 patterns and patterns manual.
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post #2358 of 4082 Old 10-30-2010, 05:49 PM
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I cant DL any of them for the past 3 days, are they ever available?
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post #2359 of 4082 Old 10-30-2010, 05:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rpgdude View Post

I cant DL any of them for the past 3 days, are they ever available?

I was able to download it (took forever) but the file was corrupt.

7az didn't recognize the downloaded file as valid.
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post #2360 of 4082 Old 10-30-2010, 06:04 PM
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I started a download this morning which timed-out. Currently Dropbox is denying downloads for the images due to high traffic.
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post #2361 of 4082 Old 10-30-2010, 06:32 PM - Thread Starter
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Initially there were some file hosting issues that didn't show up in testing. Downloads were switched to Megaupload and the w6rz.net mirror, so hopefully things should now work.
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post #2362 of 4082 Old 10-30-2010, 07:53 PM
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Is it time to start mirroring on w6rz.net?

Ron

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post #2363 of 4082 Old 10-30-2010, 09:32 PM - Thread Starter
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I guess if you don't mind the traffic. The AVCHD and HDMV are a lot larger with the calibration video and longer chapter times. I estimated the previous version at about 85 total downloads a day for those versions, but I can't say if that might change with the larger downloads.
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post #2364 of 4082 Old 10-30-2010, 09:48 PM
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Traffic is not a problem. I've done a terabyte in one month on w6rz.net. I'll PM you.

Ron

HD MPEG-2 Test Patterns http://www.w6rz.net
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post #2365 of 4082 Old 10-31-2010, 07:38 AM - Thread Starter
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Thanks to dr1394, the project now has an alternate download location with the following links:

HDMV (.exe) or HDMV (.7z) - See Download Note A

AVCHD (.exe) or AVCHD (.7z) - See Download Note A

MP4 (.exe) or MP4 (.7z)

PATTERNS MANUAL (.pdf)



A third download location, which I personally did not upload, was added in a reply to this thread at:
Files provided by wiak
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post #2366 of 4082 Old 10-31-2010, 09:40 AM
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Where can I find guidance as to which of the several available versions I should download?
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post #2367 of 4082 Old 10-31-2010, 10:14 AM - Thread Starter
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The first post is primarily intended to address which version to consider downloading. Basically it depends on two factors:

1) The HD player you intend to use. Originally the project would have only provided patterns for Blu-ray players (AVCHD or HDMV version), but it was expanded to include H264 or Mpeg-4 media players (MP4 version). If you intend to use a Blu-ray player, you can look at the section at the end of the first post, or consult the information from the manufacturer. Generally manufacturers seem to provide similar capabilities for most of their recent players, for example Sony and Panasonic generally support AVCHD. Some older models may not follow the newer trends, for example the initial Sharp would not play any version and a newer model was reported as compatible.

2) The media and burner that you have available. If you have a Blu-ray burner and Blu-ray writable media then the choice is almost always to go with the HDMV (PowerDVD may be the only exception). If you do not have a Blu-ray burner, but you have a DVD burner, and you want it to play on your Blu-ray player then the choice is usually AVCHD. If you have one of the players that do not support AVCHD but want to burn with a DVD burner, there are a few brands that will play HDMV from DVD media (Denon and Magnavox).

Edit: Additionally, to select between .exe or .7z depends on your computer operating system. The .7z version will work with any of the most popular operating systems, but it's natively supported by almost no operating system and requires extra software. Since Windows has the largest share of computers, the .exe is offered, which is natively supported by Windows. This project wouldn't exist without LMZA compression (.7z), but even I don't use Linux (due to poor power management) so it makes sense to offer the .exe download.
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post #2368 of 4082 Old 10-31-2010, 10:18 AM
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I just wanna add that my Oppo BDP-83 plays the HDMV version on a burned DVD (DVDM=works!)

Pitou!
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post #2369 of 4082 Old 10-31-2010, 10:47 AM - Thread Starter
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Thanks for the feedback. There are some players that I'm almost sure will play the DVDM item without issue. I just figured it would be best to rely on actual reports of compatibility, rather than to chance getting one wrong.
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post #2370 of 4082 Old 10-31-2010, 10:57 AM
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First thank you for the great new version. I think the inclusion of the HD calibration video will be of great benefit to new users!

I downloaded and burned to DVD the AVCHD.exe iso. It worked very well with my PS3. However I have a Panasonic DMP-85 that seemed to get stuck in some type of a disk loading loop. It required a power off to gain control of the player and eject the disk. The DMP-85 was able to play the AVCHD version 1.3 without issue. Not sure exactly what is going on with that.

Thanks again,

Michael
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