AVS HD 709 - Blu-ray & MP4 Calibration - Page 83 - AVS Forum
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post #2461 of 3956 Old 11-10-2010, 03:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alluringreality View Post

1% is intended to be very dark. On Version 2 it is at level 18. If you flip back and forth between 0% and 1% fields there should probably be a very minor change. The Black Clipping pattern is an easier way to accomplish the same task.

The black clipping pattern is hard for me to discern on my Pio 101-FD.

So, 1% window should be visible against the background?

thx

bob
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post #2462 of 3956 Old 11-10-2010, 03:47 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spongebob View Post

The black clipping pattern is hard for me to discern on my Pio 101-FD.

The description for APL clipping takes room lighting more into account and better fits with the patterns from DVE or AVIA.

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So, 1% window should be visible against the background?

On a static pattern it should be very difficult to spot a difference of two levels. Personally I find it near impossible to spot a difference of one level with flashing, and a static pattern with a two level difference should be somewhat similar.

Since you're using measurements, you could base brightness off of a target gamma like described in http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=852536
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post #2463 of 3956 Old 11-11-2010, 08:57 AM
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Originally Posted by mrvideo View Post

I have a lightscribe burner and after the first batch of discs, I'll never use it again (CD or DVD). It takes forever to "print" the disc. But that isn't the worse part. Besides the lack of color, the contrast ratio sucks. Unlike the print ads that showed nice blacks, you can't get black, you can only get gray. It is like having NTSC setup on top of NTSC setup. The CDs were a little darker than the DVDs. IMHO, false advertising.

You can increase the contrast through settings (probably depends on your model). I have an LG lightscribe burner and it will make a darker shade of gray. It takes longer to burn to get the darker contrast. I think its a neat technology, you can't expect the world from it. But it does what its supposed to do.... label your media.
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post #2464 of 3956 Old 11-11-2010, 09:02 AM
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You can lightscribe the disc multiple times to make it darker. The laser starts scribing from an indexed position on the front of the disc... so just scribe it multiple times!
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post #2465 of 3956 Old 11-11-2010, 10:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by willymayeshere View Post

You can increase the contrast through settings (probably depends on your model). I have an LG lightscribe burner and it will make a darker shade of gray. It takes longer to burn to get the darker contrast. I think its a neat technology, you can't expect the world from it. But it does what its supposed to do.... label your media.

I have one of the early HP models. Don't remember seeing a place in order to do that.

It is neat technology. But, it is B&W only and it takes forever. I can burn full DVDs faster than it can print labels.

Plus, every so often it would lose sync and skew the image, making a coaster out of it.

Once getting the first Epson printer than could print directly onto media, I never looked back. Media is cheaper and you get full color and it prints faster than you can burn.

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Originally Posted by SemperFiavs View Post

You can lightscribe the disc multiple times to make it darker. The laser starts scribing from an indexed position on the front of the disc... so just scribe it multiple times!

It is slow enough doing it once. Doing it more than once would be very painful.

Now back to our regularly scheduled forum topic.

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post #2466 of 3956 Old 11-11-2010, 03:50 PM
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Originally Posted by mrvideo View Post

I have one of the early HP models. Don't remember seeing a place in order to do that..

You must really have an old model. Lighscribing doesn't take to long on my LG. In 3-5 minutes its finished doing its thing. Although if you do it on the max contrast with a design that takes up most of the disc it will take around 15 minutes.
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post #2467 of 3956 Old 11-12-2010, 10:48 AM
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I watched the now provided HDNation clip on color and tint from page 1. Thanks for adding these to the thread, they do a great job of explaining how to use the disk.

I saw Robert Heron used the "blue mode" on the samsung tv he had. I wish he had done the color with the blue mode, and then used a blue filter and did it again. I am curious to see if he would have arrived at the same result of "53".

Any of you guys out there with a blue mode ever tested your blue filter againts it? Was the blue filter reliable in comparison?
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post #2468 of 3956 Old 11-12-2010, 11:31 AM
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The color ramps in the gray pattern section, I understand the purpose for them, to ensure your not clipping color detail at the top end. If you are clipping color detail, what is the correct way to resolve it?

Lower the contrast of the set, or lower the color saturation further?
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post #2469 of 3956 Old 11-12-2010, 11:38 AM
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Lower contrast first.

Also check the level of the signal, some sources can send either PC level or Video Level.
That can also clip the top and bottom end if the source and display are not the same level setting. That is PC or Video.

I came across that once myself, drove me nuts for a long time till i discovered it.

Athanasios
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post #2470 of 3956 Old 11-12-2010, 12:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nashou66 View Post

Lower contrast first.

Also check the level of the signal, some sources can send either PC level or Video Level.
That can also clip the top and bottom end if the source and display are not the same level setting. That is PC or Video.

I came across that once myself, drove me nuts for a long time till i discovered it.

Athanasios

Thanks. I can defeat it, by lowering the color control 2 additional ticks, OR by lowering the contrast about 40 ticks, lol. So, the choice is clear: lower the color 2 ticks.

Thanks.
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post #2471 of 3956 Old 11-12-2010, 12:18 PM
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I have an issue with the AVCHD iso file. As I stated earlier, I've been able to get the HDMV iso to mount with Virtual Clone and play the mounted iso in PowerDVD. If I try this with the AVCHD iso it does not work. PowerDVD says it works with AVCHD right on the main window when you open it up.

The reason why I'm using AVCHD because I have a Panasonic DMP-BD60 blu ray player which is ALSO supposed to play AVCHD video. I've tried burning a DVD disk with the iso (using the program imgburn for the burning process) but when I put it in my blu ray player it reads and reads and reads and never plays the disc.

Is there something wrong with the AVCHD iso? What else could I try for my blu ray player?
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post #2472 of 3956 Old 11-12-2010, 01:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by willymayeshere View Post

I have an issue with the AVCHD iso file. As I stated earlier, I've been able to get the HDMV iso to mount with Virtual Clone and play the mounted iso in PowerDVD. If I try this with the AVCHD iso it does not work. PowerDVD says it works with AVCHD right on the main window when you open it up.

The reason why I'm using AVCHD because I have a Panasonic DMP-BD60 blu ray player which is ALSO supposed to play AVCHD video. I've tried burning a DVD disk with the iso (using the program imgburn for the burning process) but when I put it in my blu ray player it reads and reads and reads and never plays the disc.

Is there something wrong with the AVCHD iso? What else could I try for my blu ray player?

Look a few pages back in this thread. Panasonic players have an issue with the new AVCHD 2.0 version. You'll have to use the v1.3 AVCHD with your Panasonic, just as I have to with mine.

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post #2473 of 3956 Old 11-12-2010, 01:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by redwolf4k View Post

The color ramps in the gray pattern section, I understand the purpose for them, to ensure your not clipping color detail at the top end. If you are clipping color detail, what is the correct way to resolve it?

Lower the contrast of the set, or lower the color saturation further?

Lowering color saturation won't help with color tint in a grayscale pattern. If it's been properly encoded, there won't be any color information in the pattern. The first thing to try is to lower the contrast a bit, which can work if the color tint is due to one or more of the primaries running out of steam. If you reduce contrast a lot and still have the tint, get out your meter. It's probably time for a grayscale adjustment.

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post #2474 of 3956 Old 11-12-2010, 02:41 PM
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Originally Posted by superleo View Post

These can be saved to your local drive and printed out.

I just printed the case image and discovered that it is very pixellated (I know, not a real word). I knew there was going to be trouble when I placed it into my AI template for creating case covers. I had to really enlarge it.

After printing it, I pulled the image into Photoshop and discovered, that oops, it is only 800 pixels wide. At a minimum, to print on paper for use in a DVD case, it needs to be 3240 pixels wide. And that is for a one-to-one printout at 10.8 inches. In theory, an image should be twice as wide (or high) as the resulting printout size.

Is there a higher rez version available?

Thanks.

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post #2475 of 3956 Old 11-12-2010, 04:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by redwolf4k View Post

I watched the now provided HDNation clip on color and tint from page 1. Thanks for adding these to the thread, they do a great job of explaining how to use the disk.

I saw Robert Heron used the "blue mode" on the samsung tv he had. I wish he had done the color with the blue mode, and then used a blue filter and did it again. I am curious to see if he would have arrived at the same result of "53".

Any of you guys out there with a blue mode ever tested your blue filter againts it? Was the blue filter reliable in comparison?

Yes, I have with my Samsung, and blue mode results in a much higher Color setting than a DVE filter I have. Furthermore the color looks too much to my eyes.
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post #2476 of 3956 Old 11-12-2010, 05:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrvideo View Post

I just printed the case image and discovered that it is very pixellated (I know, not a real word). I knew there was going to be trouble when I placed it into my AI template for creating case covers. I had to really enlarge it.

After printing it, I pulled the image into Photoshop and discovered, that oops, it is only 800 pixels wide. At a minimum, to print on paper for use in a DVD case, it needs to be 3240 pixels wide. And that is for a one-to-one printout at 10.8 inches. In theory, an image should be twice as wide (or high) as the resulting printout size.

Is there a higher rez version available?

Thanks.

Here are the links to the full Photoshop PSDs. You need either Photoshop or Elements to open and/or edit.

Cover file:
http://www.mediafire.com/file/0u3iqh...09%20Cover.psd

Label file:
http://www.mediafire.com/file/mycq8v...09%20label.psd

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post #2477 of 3956 Old 11-12-2010, 06:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Rolls-Royce View Post

Look a few pages back in this thread. Panasonic players have an issue with the new AVCHD 2.0 version. You'll have to use the v1.3 AVCHD with your Panasonic, just as I have to with mine.

Alright, cool, the Patched version worked. I was wondering what that was for.
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post #2478 of 3956 Old 11-12-2010, 06:29 PM
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This calibration disk has been very useful to me. Thanks a million!

One request I have is for large window APL patterns for 21 point gray scale along with near black and near white.
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post #2479 of 3956 Old 11-12-2010, 09:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by redwolf4k View Post
Any of you guys out there with a blue mode ever tested your blue filter againts it? Was the blue filter reliable in comparison?
For various reasons the correct way to adjust the "color" control is to use an accurate meter. S&M talk about some of the issues in their color article.

Things I've noticed:
1) The filter can "leak". They talk about detecting this and working around it. Certain technologies (plasma) are more prone to this than others.
2) The blue mode can be borked. This is the problem with my Kuro monitor, although the error is small and consistent.
3) My visual system suffers fatigue if I don't/can't correct quickly using proper technique.
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post #2480 of 3956 Old 11-12-2010, 09:58 PM
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People with an accurate meter are a much different group than those that have to settle on blue screens and blue filters.
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post #2481 of 3956 Old 11-12-2010, 10:05 PM
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Quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by bodosom View Post
For various reasons the correct way to adjust the "color" control is to use an accurate meter. S&M talk about some of the issues in their color article.
I agree.

Quote:
Things I've noticed:
1) The filter can "leak". They talk about detecting this and working around it. Certain technologies (plasma) are more prone to this than others.
2) The blue mode can be borked. This is the problem with my Kuro monitor, although the error is small and consistent.
3) My visual system suffers fatigue if I don't/can't correct quickly using proper technique.
The Blue mode with the 9G Kuros is broke and always was. The error is not small, unless you consider a +8 to be small and that is using a kuro 141 in ISF mode. I would guess that a non signature kuro would have a lessor degree in the numbers but still nothing you would want to use.

ss
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post #2482 of 3956 Old 11-12-2010, 10:14 PM
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Originally Posted by kjgarrison View Post
People with an accurate meter are a much different group than those that have to settle on blue screens and blue filters.
Yes but the point that "bodosom" is making is that using the blue filter will not help. It is just to make you fell that you haven't wasted your money on a calibration disc.

ss
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post #2483 of 3956 Old 11-13-2010, 04:10 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by joikd View Post
One request I have is for large window APL patterns for 21 point gray scale along with near black and near white.
The Version 2 release targets single-layer DVD media, and effectively the discs are full. Once I finish up the new version I'll consider if there is enough demand for items like this to begin a new project that focuses on Blu-ray.
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post #2484 of 3956 Old 11-13-2010, 04:11 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by superleo View Post
You need either Photoshop or Elements to open and/or edit.
GIMP can open .psd files, but it can't edit photoshop text.
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post #2485 of 3956 Old 11-13-2010, 04:20 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by willymayeshere View Post
I've been able to get the HDMV iso to mount with Virtual Clone and play the mounted iso in PowerDVD. If I try this with the AVCHD iso it does not work.
I think it has to do with folders and how Virtual CloneDrive identifies the disc. Even after AVCHD-2b is finished you will not be able to play it with this process. Version 2 AVCHD or PATCHED will play from DVD media with PowerDVD.
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post #2486 of 3956 Old 11-13-2010, 03:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kjgarrison View Post

People with an accurate meter are a much different group than those that have to settle on blue screens and blue filters.

For a true color decoding, which is very different than grayscale, you still need color isolation. The base color is blue, thus the reason why some sets have a blue mode, and better yet, some displays have a complete primaries color isolation. The optimum pattern for this would be one that comes from a pattern generator, such an Accupel, the next option would be patterns from a disc, what most of us use.

Once you have primaries via color decoding, you can move to measure and calibrate grayscale, then you can use the meter to close the delta gap for primaries and if your set or video processor has CMS registers then do those.

Final step re-check everything since pretty much one thing has influence on another.

Going back to the blue filter issue, having to use a filter is better than not having anything at all.

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post #2487 of 3956 Old 11-13-2010, 04:32 PM
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Originally Posted by sillysally View Post
.. The error is not small, unless you consider a +8 to be small and that is using a kuro 141 in ISF mode
I didn't say anthing about a 141FD or about your monitor. You've completely misunderstood what I wrote about blue mode error in my monitor. If you come to the conclusion that I've made a mistake or said something that violates your experience please seek clarification from me.
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post #2488 of 3956 Old 11-13-2010, 04:56 PM
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Originally Posted by alluringreality View Post
Here is a Version 2 disc that uses true AVCHD authoring. The decompressed download can be burned to DVD media, and it should play in any AVCHD compatible Blu-ray player, including Panasonic models. The mirror files will follow once the documentation is updated to reflect the Version 2b changes. Currently this is expected to be the final AVCHD release, but anyone that has questions may wish to wait until everything has been documented.

AVCHD (.exe) or AVCHD (.7z)
Iso MD5: 6414c7e25c8e0d4ba2ed1a0b61802f4c

AVCHD authoring software simply does not offer the same features as the Blu-ray authoring software. If you have access to a Blu-ray burner, the Version 2 HDMV would still be the recommended version. The following are the differences for the AVCHD compared to the HDMV/DVDM/PATCHED:
- No popup menus for navigation
- No option to select chapter 2 from CalMAN menus
- Does not include top navigation on menus
- 5-Step CalMAN APL Series was removed to remain at single-layer DVD size
- Misc. Patterns Sections F-L are not included

Not in the mood to play games - where is the file to download - not interested in the Zodiac gizmo!
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post #2489 of 3956 Old 11-13-2010, 05:31 PM
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Originally Posted by p5browne View Post
Not in the mood to play games - where is the file to download - not interested in the Zodiac gizmo!

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...5#post19415515

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post #2490 of 3956 Old 11-13-2010, 05:42 PM
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The Mirror Site is better as it's download manager friendly and doesn't cost money to get decent speeds!

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