AVS HD 709 - Blu-ray & MP4 Calibration - Page 88 - AVS Forum
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post #2611 of 3945 Old 12-14-2010, 09:06 AM
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I have downloaded both AVCHD versions from the mirror sites and when I try to either run the .exe or open the .7z (I have the 7 zip program installed) I get an error that it can not open the file. Has anybody encountered a similar problem? Am I doing something wrong? I'm downloading the HDMV.7z version as we speak. TIA
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post #2612 of 3945 Old 12-14-2010, 11:46 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Samaritano View Post

when I try to either run the .exe or open the .7z (I have the 7 zip program installed) I get an error that it can not open the file.

Typically with .7z I just right-click the file in Windows Explorer and choose extract. Assuming you're using the latest version of 7-zip, the only thing I can think of would be an incomplete download. Due to the file size, a download manager can be useful. I've only tried Orbit Downloader and Flashget, but there are a number of download managers that might provide resuming downloads, and some will also download quicker than web browsers.

- The AVCHD-2d.7z file should be 625,162,668 bytes in size if you right-click and go to properties.

- MD5 for the AVCHD-2d.exe is:
51938a33e124124ed091ff8375749629
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post #2613 of 3945 Old 12-14-2010, 02:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alluringreality View Post

Typically with .7z I just right-click the file in Windows Explorer and choose extract. Assuming you're using the latest version of 7-zip, the only thing I can think of would be an incomplete download. Due to the file size, a download manager can be useful. I've only tried Orbit Downloader and Flashget, but there are a number of download managers that might provide resuming downloads, and some will also download quicker than web browsers.

- The AVCHD-2d.7z file should be 625,162,668 bytes in size if you right-click and go to properties.

- MD5 for the AVCHD-2d.exe is:
51938a33e124124ed091ff8375749629

I downloaded AVCHD-2d.7z for the second time and this time it worked.
Thank you.

Edgar
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post #2614 of 3945 Old 12-15-2010, 06:51 AM
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Just wanted to add my thanks to all the hard work. I had a successful download and disc burn. The AVCHD (version 2d) worked on my Pany BD30.

-Greg
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post #2615 of 3945 Old 12-15-2010, 09:55 PM
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Hey guys! Thanks for the awesome calibration disk! I just finished the 100 hour break-in on my new Panasonic plasma, so I felt it was finally safe to calibrate it! I've started the process and I've completed all the steps (except for "color", sadly, I don't have any blue glas... Wait a sec, would the blue lens from one of those old red and blue 3D glasses work?), but I'm not sure about the contrast (in other words, white level right?) setting. I wasn't able to get rid of all the grey bars I was suppose to. I could come close by setting contrast to 100, but that seems a little extreme. Should my contrast really be set to 100?

*EDIT* Nope, the blue from the 3D glasses don't work. On the contrast issue again, I was able to lower it by looking at the white and black stepping pattern. You know how at the left side of the white pattern there's the thicker block that should look like a solid block of white if your settings are correct? Well if course, this looked like a solid block of white at 100, but I found I was able to knock contrast down to 89 before it started showing up as two blocks. Not as high as 100, but still kinda high isn't it?
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post #2616 of 3945 Old 12-15-2010, 10:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FireAza View Post

Wait a sec, would the blue lens from one of those old red and blue 3D glasses work?

I think they are usually red and green, no? and even if you have one that's blue I wouldn't trust it. These things are dirt cheap so you should get the real deal.

In A/V reproduction accuracy, there is no concept of "accounting for taste". We don't "pick" the level of bass any more than we get to pick the ending of a play. High fidelity is an unbiased, neutral, exact copy (or "reproduction") of the original source's tonal balance, timing, dynamics, etc..

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post #2617 of 3945 Old 12-16-2010, 01:17 AM
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Nope, mine are red and blue/cyan. Either way, they don't work, I'd need some of those THX glasses you linked to, thanks! How do these fair against those "puck" gizmos? Comparable, or miles behind?
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post #2618 of 3945 Old 12-16-2010, 03:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FireAza View Post

Nope, mine are red and blue/cyan. Either way, they don't work, I'd need some of those THX glasses you linked to, thanks! How do these fair against those "puck" gizmos? Comparable, or miles behind?

Doesn't your TV have a blue only mode you can use?

Contrast - check pattern A4 Color Clipping and make sure you can see everything to 235, otherwise adjust contrast.

Not miles behind, worlds.

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post #2619 of 3945 Old 12-16-2010, 09:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FireAza View Post

How do these fair against those "puck" gizmo's? Comparable, or miles behind?

Fantastic question. I've been asking an essentially similar one for years in these forums and nobody has ever given me a technically satisfactory explanation. Knowing that model X is "super" while model Y is "super duper" doesn't cut it for me.

Sound reproduction is really more my field of expertise and I can tell you that when buying a device to calibrate the relative levels of the spectrum of sound frequencies (called a "real time spectrum analyzer" or RTA) they come in different class ratings for their accuracy by an internationally recognized standards organization, "ANSI". Consumer grade color pucks, at least the ones I see people talk about, don't seem to. The accuracy you ask? "Oh, it's really good!" Oy.

I'm much more sensitive to my video reproduction's inability to render absolute black, inferior in this way to the earlier technology we had for decades, CRT, than I am regarding absolute color accuracy, so I muddle through using colored blue glasses and it seems quite livable . Proponents of color pucks are quick to counter me with, "Oh you don't know what you're missing! Night and day! My XYZ color comparator blows your rinky dink blue glasses away!" I then ask them "Oh, really? Tell me, what is your gizmo's 'Delta E' accuracy and which standards organization made that independent evaluation or are you simply taking the manufacturer's word for it that your model is 'super duper'?" They immediately fall silent.

In A/V reproduction accuracy, there is no concept of "accounting for taste". We don't "pick" the level of bass any more than we get to pick the ending of a play. High fidelity is an unbiased, neutral, exact copy (or "reproduction") of the original source's tonal balance, timing, dynamics, etc..

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post #2620 of 3945 Old 12-16-2010, 03:31 PM
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I noticed that the 709 color bars provided here have different values. In other words, I was under the impression that 75% Yellow, for example, would have the values 180(R), 180(G), 16(B). But the 709 spec color bars here have the Yellow at 188(R), 201(G), 6(B).

Can anyone explain why this is the case?
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post #2621 of 3945 Old 12-16-2010, 06:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FireAza View Post

I'd need some of those THX glasses you linked to, thanks! How do these fair against those "puck" gizmos? Comparable, or miles behind?

Neither. They are not at all comparable.
Quote:
Originally Posted by m. zillch View Post

Fantastic question. I've been asking an essentially similar one for years in these forums and nobody has ever given me a technically satisfactory explanation.

Either you asked in the wrong place or the wrong way. It's hard to say. "Consumer" grade colorimeters, spectrophotometers and light meters are not certified. That's one of the distinguishers between consumer and commercial/professional equipment. By the way in the US such certification is "traceable" to NIST.

Beyond all of that there's a fundmental error being made. Color filters, blue-only-mode or even direct measurement of lightness is just one part of the process. Even consumer grade equipment allows you to take (however haltingly) the rest of the steps.

To use an audio analogy. A color filter lets you measure amplitude much like a Radio Shack sound meter lets you measure amplitude. A meter (puck or otherwise) and software lets you measure (and hence correct) the equivalent of amplitude, frequency, phase and adjust for the equivalent of the "Normal Equal-Loudness Level Contours".
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post #2622 of 3945 Old 12-16-2010, 06:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bodosom View Post

Either you asked in the wrong place or the wrong way...."Consumer" grade colorimeters, spectrophotometers and light meters are not certified. That's one of the distinguishers between consumer and commercial/professional equipment. By the way in the US such certification is "traceable" to NIST.

[emphasis mine]

Then I'll ask you: Is there a thread in this forum you can point me to discussing a particular colorimeter with a NIST certification/classification/grade/rating, (or whatever it is they call it)? When it comes to calibration equipement, I never buy any who's accuracy level is only determinable by "taking the manufacturer's word for it". If that means I'm locked to considering only megabuck professional units, then so be it. Anything less could be nothing more than a toy. How much of a toy is it, one may then ask? Well, you'll never really know, now will you?

In A/V reproduction accuracy, there is no concept of "accounting for taste". We don't "pick" the level of bass any more than we get to pick the ending of a play. High fidelity is an unbiased, neutral, exact copy (or "reproduction") of the original source's tonal balance, timing, dynamics, etc..

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post #2623 of 3945 Old 12-16-2010, 08:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by m. zillch View Post

[emphasis mine]

Then I'll ask you: Is there a thread in this forum you can point me to discussing a particular colorimeter with a NIST certification/classification/grade/rating, (or whatever it is they call it)?

No. You need a reasonably broad background to ask informed questions and to make an educated assessment. That can be challenging to acquire using AVS as a primary resource.

However in general the C5, i1pro and Hubble (all certified and all from the same company) are considered reasonable devices at their respective price points. Certification addresses fidelity to a standard within the physical limitations of the meter. You have to make your own decisions regarding appropriate accuracy (possibly modulated by your display types). Tom sells these as well as a couple of pro spectroradiometers.

I'd suggest you start a new thread with your questions. However spending a few weeks browsing the threads at an Apple photo calibration forum (or other resource populated by professionals like the Colorsync list) would be a prudent investment of your time.
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post #2624 of 3945 Old 12-16-2010, 11:07 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 709er View Post

I was under the impression that 75% Yellow, for example, would have the values 180(R), 180(G), 16(B).

This is how the Flashing Color Bars pattern is expected to decode. A variation of 1 due to rounding is also possible. There is an image of the reference decode attached to http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...6#post19564846 If this is not what you're seeing, I know some computer programs or video drivers decode incorrectly.
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post #2625 of 3945 Old 12-18-2010, 08:09 AM
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when i downloaded the hdmv.exe version it said the hdmv-2d.iso file is broken while extracting it
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post #2626 of 3945 Old 12-18-2010, 09:32 AM - Thread Starter
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Most likely the download was incomplete if the .exe will not extract. The original HDMV-2d.exe is showing 498,619,363 bytes for the size, when right-clicking the file and looking at properties in Windows Explorer. If the file size matches, then there have been a few reports of the .exe failing on some Windows systems, and the .7z could be used instead.

EDIT: Since this has come up a few times on the larger downloads, I changed Download Note B in the first post to include the HDMV and AVCHD file sizes. I also tried to be more specific on ways to ensure the entire compressed file is downloaded.
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post #2627 of 3945 Old 12-18-2010, 02:02 PM
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I'm downloading it from the mirror sites because the other says it will take over 2 hours while the mirror one is minutes. I'm using FIOS and no download should take hours. SEcond problem i'm having is when i try to burn it to disc i get hdmv2d.iso file exceedes file limitations and to use something else udf or something, it goes 1.0 to 2.5. The one time it burned it did with error of 1 file and it was something with the .iso. using cyberlink dvd suite
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post #2628 of 3945 Old 12-18-2010, 04:49 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dagger666 View Post

I'm downloading it from the mirror sites because the other says it will take over 2 hours while the mirror one is minutes. I'm using FIOS and no download should take hours.

Browser download speeds from the main file host seem to be limited. Considering the file size, generally I think it makes sense to download using a program intended for downloading, and at this time I don't believe any mainstream browsers feature download managers. I would guess that Wuula may prefer if people would download using their software. My internet connection is less than half the speed of the slowest FIOS listing, and it's showing around 12 minutes to complete using Orbit Downloader (a download manager). With the size of the current files, I consider Wuula to be the best free file host available from the options I've looked through.


Quote:
SEcond problem i'm having is when i try to burn it to disc i get hdmv2d.iso file exceedes file limitations and to use something else udf or something, it goes 1.0 to 2.5. The one time it burned it did with error of 1 file and it was something with the .iso. using cyberlink dvd suite

The .iso file is a disc image. The file is used to create a disc, and usually it is not actually burned to disc. The "Example for Windows Computers" in the first post shows how to use ImgBurn to create a disc from the .iso file. If you don't want to use ImgBurn, Vista SP2 and Windows 7 include a program called "Windows Disc Image Burner" - see http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/m.../dd451080.aspx
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post #2629 of 3945 Old 12-18-2010, 11:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alluringreality View Post

This is how the Flashing Color Bars pattern is expected to decode. A variation of 1 due to rounding is also possible.........If this is not what you're seeing, I know some computer programs or video drivers decode incorrectly.


Now it makes sense. Thank you. I used the eyedropper feature that's built into my browser and got the correct RGB values from that file.
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post #2630 of 3945 Old 12-20-2010, 11:01 AM
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Is there still an HDDVD version of this test disk available for download? I only see blueray mentioned.
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post #2631 of 3945 Old 12-20-2010, 11:15 AM - Thread Starter
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The HD DVD version was discontinued for Version 2 and moved off the first post. The last version appears at the bottom of the revision notes.
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...5#post19413135
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post #2632 of 3945 Old 12-22-2010, 03:49 PM
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For your compatibility list: The new Oppo BDP-93 plays AVCHD and DVDM (both burned on DVD+R DL with a Mac). It almost certainly plays HDMV but I haven't actually tried it myself.
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post #2633 of 3945 Old 12-23-2010, 12:32 PM
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Can I just add my voice to the chorus of people offering thanks for the latest revision of this great resource? I had no problems downloading or burning the 2.0d version in AVCHD format or using it on a Sony Blu-ray player.
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post #2634 of 3945 Old 12-26-2010, 06:57 AM
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Thanks for this latest version. I can confirm that AVCHD-2d works on a Samsung 2500 with either 24fps on or off.

I have version 1.3 and had to turn off 24 fps to use it, but this latest version works with this on or off.

Thanks again. I also have a Panasonic DMP-BD45 player, and will test this later when the projector is on.
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post #2635 of 3945 Old 12-30-2010, 06:24 PM
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Thanks for the awesome thread. I wanted to verify that I was able to take the AVCHD version, burn it to a DVD (DVD+R), and play it without problems on the Sony BDP-S570.
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post #2636 of 3945 Old 01-01-2011, 03:30 AM
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Hello, guys.

Great thread! Keep up the good work!

I hope you can help me on my issue:

First of all, I don't have hardware Blu-Ray player, so my goal is to run one of the discs on my laptop and then connect it via HDMI to the LCD TV.
I've downloaded both HDMV-2d and AVCHD-2d files and mount the isos with Daemon Tools Lite 4.35.6. The problem is that neither of PowerDVD 10 Ultra 10.0.1705.51, nor the TotalMedia Theatre 3.0.1.185 Platinum is able to recognize the discs. Could you please tell me what to do, because I want to be able to run the discs with the menus and everything, not just the video streams.

Thank you in advance.

P.S. Happy New Year! )
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post #2637 of 3945 Old 01-01-2011, 10:31 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DigitriX View Post
First of all, I don't have hardware Blu-Ray player, so my goal is to run one of the discs on my laptop and then connect it via HDMI to the LCD TV.
Will you be watching video in this same manner?

The reason I ask is because different electronics (or software with computers) may not always match. For example the typical output from most computers often may not match the default output from a DVD player. If you will be watching Blu-rays this way then the setup is fine. I just wanted to point out that different video players may not always output matching video levels, so it's generally best to play any calibration video with the same electronics that you use for watching other video.

Quote:
I've downloaded both HDMV-2d and AVCHD-2d files and mount the isos with Daemon Tools Lite 4.35.6. The problem is that neither of PowerDVD 10 Ultra 10.0.1705.51, nor the TotalMedia Theatre 3.0.1.185 Platinum is able to recognize the discs.
Personally I don't use Daemon Tools, and it had been a long time since I last tested it. I installed the latest version to test, because it seemed the most likely cause. I also found that PowerDVD would not play the iso images mounted with Daemon Tools. You can use the attached AVCHD-2d.mds (extract to same folder as .iso) so that Daemon Tools may correctly identify the AVCHD for playback (worked on latest PowerDVD version). Virtual CloneDrive is another free program that can mount disc images, and Virtual CloneDrive 5.4.4.0 should correctly identify the HDMV image for playback with either PowerDVD Ultra or TotalMedia Thetre 3.

 

2d-mds.zip 0.439453125k . file
Attached Files
File Type: zip 2d-mds.zip (450 Bytes, 0 views)
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post #2638 of 3945 Old 01-01-2011, 11:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alluringreality View Post

Will you be watching video in this same manner?

Good point! Well, no. I watch movies using external HDD connected to the TV's USB ports. So, there is no other hardware in the signal chain. Could you give me some recommendations how to proceed with calibration in this case? By the way, I have Samsung LE40C650 and I'm currently using the setting from this review: hdtvtest.co.uk/news/samsung-le40c650-20100506527.htm (the 5th comment, from David Mackenzie). It's definitely better looking than with the default settings, but I can't tell if it needs to be more precisely adjusted.


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Originally Posted by alluringreality View Post

Personally I don't use Daemon Tools, and it had been a long time since I last tested it. I installed the latest version to test, because it seemed the most likely cause. I also found that PowerDVD would not play the iso images mounted with Daemon Tools. You can use the attached AVCHD-2d.mds (extract to same folder as .iso) so that Daemon Tools may correctly identify the AVCHD for playback (worked on latest PowerDVD version). Virtual CloneDrive is another free program that can mount disc images, and Virtual CloneDrive 5.4.4.0 should correctly identify the HDMV image for playback with either PowerDVD Ultra or TotalMedia Thetre 3.

Thank you for the mds files. I'll give it a try tomorrow and will see what happens. If this doesn't help, I'll try Virtual CloneDrive. Thanks again!
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post #2639 of 3945 Old 01-01-2011, 12:00 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DigitriX View Post

I watch movies using external HDD connected to the TV's USB ports. So, there is no other hardware in the signal chain. Could you give me some recommendations how to proceed with calibration in this case?

I'm not familiar with this sort of setup, but the general idea is to play any calibration video in the same manner as you do for other video. The MP4 video played from the hard disk might work. The first post has a third download that just contains 1080p MP4 video.
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post #2640 of 3945 Old 01-01-2011, 12:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alluringreality View Post

The MP4 video played from the hard disk might work. The first post has a third download that just contains 1080p MP4 video.

Yeah, I thought of that. I'll compare some stills from the different setups and will check for any big differences. I might end up using the MP4 release for calibration. Thanks.
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