AVS HD 709 - Blu-ray & MP4 Calibration - Page 91 - AVS Forum
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post #2701 of 4075 Old 02-05-2011, 08:21 AM
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Hi
After quick search through the thread, I wanted to request still image files for the patterns.

The use for this would be to calibrate the output from broadcast graphics and video workstations. Hence they have an established, faithfull RGB to YUV conversion / display path so can be used as the reference starting point for display calibration.

I realise this probably has commercial implications however.
If there are any available products out there for this I would like to know.

If anyone can advise me on how to create them, let me know,

From there, a Mac usable virtual generator could be built and maybe one day wirk with Calman!

Tris
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post #2702 of 4075 Old 02-05-2011, 08:29 AM
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HI
Forgot to mention.
Am using Mac to output files, and a PC and Calman to calibrate.
Broadcast card is Decklink HD Extreme.
Decklink card will not play DVD/Blu Ray out.
I can use Photoshop, After effects or Final Cut to play out of it, so am looking at building a multi layer PSD as my test generator.

Graphics card will play out RGB displayport to hdmi adapter.
I could use this to play the HDMV out
But presumably that will be in the wrong colourspace.

But then in order to use the 0-255 patterns, I am having to set blu ray player and display to RGB anyway.

But for my purposes, it is the decklink output I want to calibrate more than anything.
hmm...

Have just completed ISF training but have no funds left just yet to buy generator.

I may have to pay someone else to calibrate the screen after all!

Tris
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post #2703 of 4075 Old 02-05-2011, 10:48 AM - Thread Starter
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Many of the patterns for w6rz are available as images at http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...8#post18381048. There are additional comments on how to use the yuvtorgb program at http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...3#post12446743.
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post #2704 of 4075 Old 02-05-2011, 11:00 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by littletee View Post

0% = 16
10% = 38
20% = 60
30% = 82
40% = 104
50% = 126
60% = 147
70% = 169
80% = 191
90% = 213
100% = 235

On the current release the unusual step was moved above black to better match with Digital Video Essentials measurements. To fit with our current video encode 10% to 50% would be one level lower. The main reason this was done was to provide an equal 12 levels between the measurements above black.
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post #2705 of 4075 Old 02-05-2011, 11:46 AM
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wmcclain; Thanks. I will try that.
I just liked the selection of patterns provided here better.

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post #2706 of 4075 Old 02-06-2011, 02:13 AM
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Thanks VERY much for images link. This might just work.

Am not familiar with command line-ness so amtrying to find a mac GUI to convert to BMP.
Or something that runs the .c file in OSX


Have found a YUV viewer GLYUVPlay but it can only export quicktime.
I may see if Shake can read raw .yuv files, and if so if it has a faithful conversion process.
thanks again
Tris
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post #2707 of 4075 Old 02-06-2011, 02:14 AM
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is BMP faithful?
I ask because I know there a gamma shifts converting to PNG.
And gamma on a mac, eeeech, in Qyuicktime? Not sure if even Apple know.
anyway
will keep all posted...
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post #2708 of 4075 Old 02-06-2011, 05:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by littletee View Post

Hi
After quick search through the thread, I wanted to request still image files for the patterns.

The use for this would be to calibrate the output from broadcast graphics and video workstations. Hence they have an established, faithfull RGB to YUV conversion / display path so can be used as the reference starting point for display calibration.

I realise this probably has commercial implications however.
If there are any available products out there for this I would like to know.

If anyone can advise me on how to create them, let me know,

From there, a Mac usable virtual generator could be built and maybe one day wirk with Calman!

Tris

I second the request for image files.
Especially for basic calibration of brightness, contrast clipping, color, tint and sharpness.
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post #2709 of 4075 Old 02-06-2011, 07:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Legoheads View Post

I second the request for image files.
Especially for basic calibration of brightness, contrast clipping, color, tint and sharpness.

Image files are commonly in the wrong colorspace for video calibration. One can sometimes resolve this problem but some display chains cannot be calibrated without correct video input. I believe this puts such files fundamentally at odds with the concept of Rec.709 calibration.

Not that that doesn't keep some folks from producing such image sets.
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post #2710 of 4075 Old 02-08-2011, 08:46 AM
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Will following these instructions produce a non-HDCP disc?
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post #2711 of 4075 Old 02-08-2011, 08:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gspot35 View Post

Will following these instructions produce a non-HDCP disc?

The disc is not copy protected.

HDCP is something else, a copy protection scheme for HDMI connections.

-Bill
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post #2712 of 4075 Old 02-08-2011, 01:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gspot35 View Post

Will following these instructions produce a non-HDCP disc?

Although Bill's response is correct your question suggests some possible confusion. What do you think might not work when you make (burn) a disc?
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post #2713 of 4075 Old 02-10-2011, 11:42 AM
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I work in ProAV and many manufacturers of digital matrix switching systems and video wall array processors are scrambling for proper HDCP handling. We often will install a system only to have a section of video fail to negotiate because we're using some Hollywood test disc. The customer's think they want a Blu-Ray player...but I need to let them know they can create their own content without copy protection and play it..it's just that the Hollywood HDCP is keeping them from seeing the video on multiple displays.

So my goal is to find a test disc that will play without having to negotiate HDCP with the displays.

Thanks in advance.
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post #2714 of 4075 Old 02-10-2011, 11:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gspot35 View Post

So my goal is to find a test disc that will play without having to negotiate HDCP with the displays.

I believe that is in the HDMI hardware chipset. If the video is 1080(i or p), the HDCP is negotiated between the devices. Not sure if HDCP is negotiated at 720p.

In any event, it is strictly hardware, not controllable via the Blu-ray disc software

That is my understanding as to how that works.

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post #2715 of 4075 Old 02-10-2011, 01:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gspot35 View Post

it's just that the Hollywood HDCP is keeping them from seeing the video on multiple displays.

This is not correct. HDCP is independent of disc copy protection. Nearly all modern high speed digital interfaces (except SDI) use HDCP to secure (encrypt) any non standard-defintion digital bitstream from source to (optional) repeater to sink. The actual data and media protection scheme are irrelevant. Protected (by, e.g. Cinavia) or not it's all encrypted by HDCP. Video walls (any multi-display system) are the classic epic fail for HDCP. If you want to avoid HDCP you need to use component or SDI.
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post #2716 of 4075 Old 02-11-2011, 06:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bodosom View Post

This is not correct. HDCP is independent of disc copy protection. Nearly all modern high speed digital interfaces (except SDI) use HDCP to secure (encrypt) any non standard-defintion digital bitstream from source to (optional) repeater to sink. The actual data and media protection scheme are irrelevant. Protected (by, e.g. Cinavia) or not it's all encrypted by HDCP. Video walls (any multi-display system) are the classic epic fail for HDCP. If you want to avoid HDCP you need to use component or SDI.

But then were relegated to analog video only and the systems we're designing are moving to digital. I've also been hearing rumors that manufacturers are talking about shutting off the analog ports for 720p in the near future.

So what I hear you're saying is that the content and disc do not contain HDCP, it's just the circuitry to pass the video signals through the HDMI port?
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post #2717 of 4075 Old 02-11-2011, 06:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gspot35 View Post

But then were relegated to analog video only and the systems we're designing are moving to digital.

If you're a Pro AV shop you should be using your MP500, DVG-5000 etc. to deal with this.
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post #2718 of 4075 Old 02-11-2011, 07:20 AM
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^"MP500, DVG-5000"

I'm sure everyone else in this thread is well aware of exactly what brands you are referring too, however I am not. Please tell me the brand name(s), thanks.

In A/V reproduction accuracy, there is no concept of "accounting for taste". We don't "pick" the level of bass any more than we get to pick the ending of a play. High fidelity is an unbiased, neutral, exact copy (or "reproduction") of the original source's tonal balance, timing, dynamics, etc..

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post #2719 of 4075 Old 02-11-2011, 08:22 AM
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Quote:
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^"MP500, DVG-5000"
Please tell me the brand name(s), thanks.

Sencore and Accupel (ChromaPure) resp.
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post #2720 of 4075 Old 02-13-2011, 07:07 PM
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hey dudes tried this on windows 7 ultimate 64 bit didnt work, its was the avchd any suggestions
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post #2721 of 4075 Old 02-13-2011, 08:14 PM - Thread Starter
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tried this on windows 7 ultimate 64 bit didnt work

Windows 7 should be able to extract the .exe and burn to disc by right-clicking an .iso file in Windows Explorer. Windows 7 includes software to play MP4 video, but it does not include software for playing Blu-ray or AVCHD discs. There are companies that sell software to play Blu-ray and AVCHD discs on Windows computers, and some of the programs are listed in the first post.
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post #2722 of 4075 Old 02-13-2011, 10:23 PM
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hey dudes tried this on windows 7 ultimate 64 bit didnt work, its was the avchd any suggestions

I have Windws 7 Ultimate 64-bit Used Imgburn. No problem.
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post #2723 of 4075 Old 02-14-2011, 03:38 PM
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Hi. I am using DUO and CALMAN 4.1.. and I notice some strange thing:
If I use DUO as source for grayscale (say 90% WHITE) on the CMS screen, the input will say R=90, G=90, B=90 on screen, telling me that the input to its CMS processor is 90RGB.
Now, if I use AVSHD (played using PS3) instead of the DUO as a source, the input will read much higher. In my example, it read R=96, G=96, B=96... so, it seems like the 90% WHITE pattern is brighter, according to DUO reading..
I originally thought that it could be PS3 have a internal brightness/contrast control that output the "modified pattern" to DUO, but then I could not find any such control in PS3 that allow me to adjust brightness/contrast. I should probably try another DVD player and see if I have the same issue...
Anyone that have a DUO can confirm if you see the same thing for AVSHD disc?
You should just need to put in the AVSHD disc, go to DUO Menu --> Output setup --> CMS --> Grayscale --> (any IRE should do) --> (any setting should do) and it should display what's going into your CMS processor within the DUO.
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post #2724 of 4075 Old 02-18-2011, 12:07 AM
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I've used the AVCHD in the past succesfully on my LCD, just the basic image tune up.

Just took order of a panny G25 42 plasma. THX mode out of the box is pretty spot on according to AVCHD disc( still breaking in the set)

I've been tooling around in "pro setting" for W/B adjustments in CUSTOM. And just can;t get it right

what slides off the disc, or patterns should i be using for WB? fine tuning adjustments. Like Low blue shift, R-gain, etc

I watch mostly in a dim room, one lamp at night time. And want to use a custom set up for Cable broadcast, because THX for some reason isnt quite doing it for me

However, THX mode looks perfect on blurays though with minor tweaks on this tv. Just not so much on Cable
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post #2725 of 4075 Old 02-18-2011, 10:34 AM - Thread Starter
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The Windows or APL measurement patterns are generally intended for setting White Balance. Typically a measurement device is used with the patterns for grayscale adjustments. Without an entry-level device such as the Eye-One Display LT, Spyder 3, or Spyder 2 the best you could probably do is to try to match the shade of gray from the THX setting.
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post #2726 of 4075 Old 02-19-2011, 04:57 PM
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I downloaded the HDMV-2d.7z file which resulted in the HDMV-2.ISO.
My OS is Linux Mint 10. Extracted the z file. Burned it to Std. DVD+R media, with a Std. DVD burner. Closed the tray on my new LG BD270 BD Player. Outstanding! Watching the Video to Calibrate HD. Will Start tomorrow with the Basics. Thanks to all those involved in this endeavor!!!!!

Only now got about a 150 hours break in on a new LG 42 inch Plasma. Can't wait to set the video more appropriately. First new TV in about 11 years. You know that I am Excited!
How technology passes one by. Thanks again!
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post #2727 of 4075 Old 02-24-2011, 12:10 AM
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Im a bit confused on contrast (white slide)

should you set contrast to so that 230-253 all blink? I have it set that way, the last couple bars barely blink, with no funky color distortions that i can see

contrast 66/ brightness is 71 on a panasonic G25, it looks pretty good. But Im not sure i did contrast correctly

for THX mode i had to bring contrast way down to 42! to get all them to blink and bring brightness up on the black level slide

a bit dark. My room is dimly lit

*edit* i notice on page one their is a .pdf for explaining everything. I set it so 230-245 flash, having contrast set so almost all flashed, is just to dim for me.
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post #2728 of 4075 Old 02-24-2011, 04:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bazinga3D View Post
Im a bit confused on contrast (white slide)

should you set contrast to so that 230-253 all blink? I have it set that way, the last couple bars barely blink, with no funky color distortions that i can see

contrast 66/ brightness is 71 on a panasonic G25, it looks pretty good. But Im not sure i did contrast correctly

for THX mode i had to bring contrast way down to 42! to get all them to blink and bring brightness up on the black level slide

a bit dark. My room is dimly lit

*edit* i notice on page one their is a .pdf for explaining everything. I set it so 230-245 flash, having contrast set so almost all flashed, is just to dim for me.
White level can be a bit confusing at first. It is not so exacting as black level. Here's a new thread that covers contrast. http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1317054

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post #2729 of 4075 Old 02-26-2011, 03:43 PM
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I must say this is a very comprehensive disc. However, I'm experiencing some strange results when setting up colour saturation.
I have set up SD using HCFR/i1, with HCFR window pattern disc. I have also used DVE SMPTE colour bars. Using blue only mode, blue filter and colorimeter all gave me a colour control setting of -6.
Now, when using the AVSHD709 disc, with the HCFR window patterns, gives me a colour control setting of -13. However, using the flashing colour test patterns, on this disc, together with the DVE blue filter, gives a colour control setting of -6, for all three primary colours.

Any idea why?
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post #2730 of 4075 Old 02-26-2011, 05:51 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by delphiplasma View Post

Any idea why?

I'm not really sure what might be going on. Color bars are usually 75%. One possible difference might be if you were measuring 100% colors. If you were previously taking measurements from the ColorHCFR PAL patterns, I think they are very small, so I suppose it's possible that average picture level could affect measurements. Different colors and average picture level are the first couple items that come to mind as possibilities for the difference.

The simple version of what I said in http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...3#post20031863 is to use the blue mode to set the color control using the Flashing Color Bars pattern. Then you could use the 75% color APL measurement patterns to see how the colors measure. That is how I would compare the setting from the blue mode to measurements.
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