AVS HD 709 - Blu-ray & MP4 Calibration - Page 92 - AVS Forum
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Display Calibration > AVS HD 709 - Blu-ray & MP4 Calibration
delphiplasma's Avatar delphiplasma 09:13 AM 02-27-2011
Thanks. Hmmm...I guess the HCFR windows are smaller, and are probably 100% levels, whereas I am using 75% on AVSHD709. However, I have used 100% level on AVSHD709 and there is very little difference between the 2. So, maybe it is due to the smaller windows?

I've used the APL 75% patterns on AVSHD709 and once again the difference, compared to the single window patterns, is very small.

The only pattern on AVSHD709, that brings the colour control down to -6, is the SMPTE colour bar pattern.

I gather I'll make all adjustments via the APL colour levels.

alluringreality's Avatar alluringreality 10:30 PM 02-27-2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by delphiplasma View Post

maybe it is due to the smaller windows?

The latest information doesn't line up with my previous thoughts. I suppose color decoding could be different for your electronics between the two formats (PAL & Blu-ray), yet generally I would expect similar blue and white patterns to measure without much difference when each was set with the blue-mode. I'm not familiar with PAL, but with US DVD and Blu-ray comparisons incorrect color decoding generally shows up as differences in red and green. Without seeing measurements I cannot really say if color decoding issues might even be a possibility. The only other thing I can think of is if the gray pattern didn't match the color patterns (same percentage), then that could make for inconsistent measurements, but again I'm just making wild guesses without seeing the numbers.
ValiantSaint's Avatar ValiantSaint 03:21 PM 02-28-2011
Thanks for this wonderful DVD. I've had a look around on it, but I'm unable to find a pattern to correctly set up my backlight of my LG LH7000 HDTV. What setting do you suggest the backlight should be on (between 0 and 100 on my TV) Thanks again : )

EDIT: Or if anyone could point me in the right direction of a pattern on the DVD that helps set the backlight at the correct level, I would be most grateful : )
zakdaripper's Avatar zakdaripper 04:58 PM 02-28-2011
I cannot get this to self extract in Windows 7. Any suggestions?

"cannot open file as archive"

Any help would be appreciated.
stezo2k's Avatar stezo2k 05:22 PM 02-28-2011
Wow this is fantastic thanks
Jim McC's Avatar Jim McC 06:59 PM 02-28-2011
When watching for color shifting during the contrast test, is there a gray card or something that can be held up to the screen? Because my eyes get fooled as I go up and down with the contrast. When I go too high, it starts to turn pink, but it's almost impossible to find the spot where it turns pink. Thanks.
mrvideo's Avatar mrvideo 09:44 PM 02-28-2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by alluringreality View Post

The only items I'm aware are missing would be the disc and sleeve labels, and they will be added at some other time.

I've updated the media and sleeve artwork to include version information. At this time I've only updated the files for the HDMV BD version.

The new images files can be download from:

Media Artwork
Sleeve Artwork
alluringreality's Avatar alluringreality 10:58 AM 03-01-2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by ValiantSaint View Post

helps set the backlight at the correct level

Usually there is no clearly right or wrong backlight setting. Generally you just have to set the backlight to personal preference. Most often the setting controls the light output for the TV. Higher settings tend to make the entire picture (black to white) brighter. Higher settings will probably make white brighter, but high settings might also cause black to become a lighter gray. Setting the backlight is often a compromise between getting bright whites and dark blacks.

The thread at http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...4#post20045034 gets into some backlight or iris related topics. My general opinion is to try to maximize white-level (contrast or picture control), try to minimize black-level (brightness control), and then set backlight based on room lighting. Room lighting can affect perception, so for example it might be reasonable to use different backlight levels for day or nighttime settings.
alluringreality's Avatar alluringreality 11:29 AM 03-01-2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim McC View Post

gray card or something that can be held up to the screen?

A gray card and a way to light it may not be any cheaper than some of the entry-level colorimeters, like the Eye-one LT or Spyder products. Measurements can give a bit more objective information. Of course not everyone will consider measurements a reasonable cost/benefit deal, because there may not be a huge difference in contrast settings between patterns or measurements.

Quote:


When I go too high, it starts to turn pink, but it's almost impossible to find the spot where it turns pink.

Gray in common commercial content may not reach the highest levels used in the APL Clipping and White Clipping patterns. Using the levels from those patterns just tends towards a conservative white-level (contrast) setting. An alternate way of looking at tinting would be to use the gray ramp in the Misc. Patterns, and it may be more difficult to spot tinting around reference white (black dots) in the ramp. If you want more objective information then a way to take measurements may be reasonable, but if you're not seeing tinting near reference white (black dots) on the ramp you're probably fine for a majority of commercial content.
alluringreality's Avatar alluringreality 11:43 AM 03-01-2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by zakdaripper View Post

I cannot get this to self extract in Windows 7. Any suggestions?

Since you say "self extract" I'll assume you get this error from the .exe download. Judging from what limited information there was for the error message on a quick search, I would guess that it's an incomplete download. Download Note B includes the expected download sizes for the HDMV and AVCHD versions. If the download size matches, another option would be to download the .7z, and it also requires the 7-zip software to extract.
ValiantSaint's Avatar ValiantSaint 12:26 PM 03-01-2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by alluringreality View Post

Usually there is no clearly right or wrong backlight setting. Generally you just have to set the backlight to personal preference. Most often the setting controls the light output for the TV. Higher settings tend to make the entire picture (black to white) brighter. Higher settings will probably make white brighter, but high settings might also cause black to become a lighter gray. Setting the backlight is often a compromise between getting bright whites and dark blacks.

The thread at http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...4#post20045034 gets into some backlight or iris related topics. My general opinion is to try to maximize white-level (contrast or picture control), try to minimize black-level (brightness control), and then set backlight based on room lighting. Room lighting can affect perception, so for example it might be reasonable to use different backlight levels for day or nighttime settings.

Many thanks for this excellent reply. I have found that I get some backlight bleeding from my TV if I have it set too high. If I set it too low, however, the picture becomes quite "murky" I just can't find a happy medium.........
alluringreality's Avatar alluringreality 01:38 PM 03-01-2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by ValiantSaint View Post

I just can't find a happy medium.........

Most TVs are rather bright at their default settings. On a quick comparison a brighter display usually wins out, so you may want to try watching a dimmer display for a few minutes before deciding it's comparatively no good. The procedure at http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...2#post20066562 can be used with some TVs to find a minimum backlight setting for the current room lighting. You can always go higher with backlight after you begin to notice flashing at 19 on the APL Clipping pattern, but going higher generally tends to make black more gray as the image gets brighter.

If you prefer a certain backlight for some reason, another option would be to adjust room lighting. A dim room usually makes a less-bright TV more reasonable, because generally the TV will seem brighter as the room gets darker. If you prefer a higher backlight that causes black to get lighter, more light in the room may help mask a grayish black.

Another option would be using a dynamic backlight, if the display has that feature. It will tend to make bright scenes brighter and/or dark scenes darker than what the TV might display with a fixed backlight setting. My TV has this sort of feature, but I find it distracting how my TV changes brightness when using the setting. I'm sure many people use the feature and generally don't notice the changing brightness, or else they simply prefer the darker blacks and brighter whites compared to using fixed lighting.
stezo2k's Avatar stezo2k 05:45 PM 03-01-2011
After configuring my TV with this will these settings would freeview/dvb be ok with these settings as well? Only reason I ask is that freeview looks slightly bright
djos's Avatar djos 06:21 PM 03-01-2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by stezo2k View Post

After configuring my TV with this will these settings would freeview/dvb be ok with these settings as well? Only reason I ask is that freeview looks slightly bright

Most boxes have slightly different output levels, I uploaded the MP4 calibration files to my Tivo and adjusted it separately (just like my 360 etc) to get the best PQ.
ValiantSaint's Avatar ValiantSaint 01:28 AM 03-02-2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by alluringreality View Post
Most TVs are rather bright at their default settings. On a quick comparison a brighter display usually wins out, so you may want to try watching a dimmer display for a few minutes before deciding it's comparatively no good. The procedure at http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...2#post20066562 can be used with some TVs to find a minimum backlight setting for the current room lighting. You can always go higher with backlight after you begin to notice flashing at 19 on the APL Clipping pattern, but going higher generally tends to make black more gray as the image gets brighter.

If you prefer a certain backlight for some reason, another option would be to adjust room lighting. A dim room usually makes a less-bright TV more reasonable, because generally the TV will seem brighter as the room gets darker. If you prefer a higher backlight that causes black to get lighter, more light in the room may help mask a grayish black.

Another option would be using a dynamic backlight, if the display has that feature. It will tend to make bright scenes brighter and/or dark scenes darker than what the TV might display with a fixed backlight setting. My TV has this sort of feature, but I find it distracting how my TV changes brightness when using the setting. I'm sure many people use the feature and generally don't notice the changing brightness, or else they simply prefer the darker blacks and brighter whites compared to using fixed lighting.
Thanks again : )

These are the settings I went with after an hour of playing around using the calibration DVD on my LG LH7000

Backlight 50
Brightness 57
Contrast 88 (Dynamic Contrast set at "low" - this has helped to remove the "film" over the panel when watching at an angle)
Colour and Sharpness set at 50 each

I do find that if I set the backlight at 60, the picture becomes washed out. At 50 the picture is a bit on the darkside, though (I do have a dynamic backlight setting, but it seems a bit hit and miss)
delphiplasma's Avatar delphiplasma 06:23 AM 03-02-2011
At the end the day, a good 2 speaker system will easily out do a cheap and nasty 5 speaker system.

I've got a good quality 2 and 5 speaker system. I get enjoyment out of both.

Even the built in TV speakers sound better than most 5 speaker systems. However, I've modified those with proper cone damping, crossovers and soft dome tweeters, to establish a flat frequency response. Although, still hampered by the plastic cabinet, the sound quality is very smooth, with a minimum amount of colouration.
delphiplasma's Avatar delphiplasma 06:54 AM 03-02-2011
Apologies...You know what? I've only gone and replied on the wrong forum!! Now I bet some of you guys are offended!!
Anyway, Regarding colour saturation setting, I'll try and get the results off to you. However, the colour looks better from the colorimeter settings. But I must say, the AVSHD709 disc is really nice.
mrvideo's Avatar mrvideo 11:30 PM 03-03-2011
I'm surprised that the BD-C6500 is missing from the list.

Because of the size of the HDMV file, I burned to a DVD, as it is cheaper. The BD-C6500 had no problem playing it, so I suspect that it will play the BD burned disc as well.

I suspect that the AVCHD version would also play, as it will play multiAVCHD produced discs, though I have not personally tested the version produced for downloading.

As a side question, what software was actually used to author the HDMV version? Easier to ask than it is to dig through all of the pages and not find it
alluringreality's Avatar alluringreality 09:19 AM 03-04-2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrvideo View Post

I'm surprised that the BD-C6500 is missing from the list.

The list is from my own testing and replies to the thread. There are simply too many models at this time to try to have a complete list. Thankfully playback from writable media has improved since the first-generation players, and generally most recent players of the same brand tend to have similar playback.

Quote:


Because of the size of the HDMV file, I burned to a DVD, as it is cheaper.

Some players will not play Blu-ray from DVD media, so there is also a modified version with the AVCHD information.

Quote:


it will play multiAVCHD produced discs

The AVCHD download here does not include the extra empty Blu-ray folders, like BDJO, that multiAVCHD typically includes. This difference means that playback may not match with multiAVCHD, but I believe it only applies to players that don't actually intend to support AVCHD playback.

Quote:


what software was actually used to author the HDMV version?

Encore was used for the main authoring, and a chapters problem with the Convergence section was corrected with BDedit.
mrvideo's Avatar mrvideo 01:11 PM 03-04-2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by alluringreality View Post

The list is from my own testing and replies to the thread.

The surprise is not necessarily that you personally didn't test it, but that no other owner has.


Quote:


The AVCHD download here does not include the extra empty Blu-ray folders, like BDJO, that multiAVCHD typically includes. This difference means that playback may not match with multiAVCHD, but I believe it only applies to players that don't actually intend to support AVCHD playback.

I'll have to download it and test it.

Quote:


Encore was used for the main authoring, and a chapters problem with the Convergence section was corrected with BDedit.

I don't recognize that name, so if it was in the credits, it went unrecognized, hence the asking.
mrvideo's Avatar mrvideo 02:55 PM 03-04-2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrvideo View Post
I'll have to download it and test it.
Well, I'll be damned. It didn't work. The BD-C6500 refuses to load it. I wonder if it because of the missing directories.

So, as a test to make sure that the disc wasn't a bad burn, I put it in the Sony BDP-S350.

That worked. The main menu screen appears.

How the Hell did you get the great menu structure via multiAVCHD? The only menus I've been able to create, via the built-in methods, sucked.
alluringreality's Avatar alluringreality 04:46 PM 03-04-2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrvideo View Post
It didn't work. The BD-C6500 refuses to load it. I wonder if it because of the missing directories.
That may be possible. I didn't include the folders because the prior commercial AVCHD authoring program hadn't included the folders. The manual seems to include AVCHD, so it goes against my prior statement. Off hand I don't remember any players that would not play with the extra folders. I suppose the folders could be added, and then just hope there aren't any such examples.

Quote:
How the Hell did you get the great menu structure via multiAVCHD?
It's authored in Adobe Encore. There's a re-author function in multiAVCHD. Mainly it's just used here to add the AVCHD information.
mrvideo's Avatar mrvideo 09:20 PM 03-04-2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by alluringreality View Post

That may be possible. I didn't include the folders because the prior commercial AVCHD authoring program hadn't included the folders.

What are the folders that need to be added? I'm assuming directly under the BDMV directory. I'm currently pulling the files from the burned DVD. I'll add the directories and then burn a new UDF 1.5 DVD and try it.

Quote:


I suppose the folders could be added, and then just hope there aren't any such examples.

Six of one, half dozen of the other?

Quote:


It's authored in Adobe Encore. There's a re-author function in multiAVCHD. Mainly it's just used here to add the AVCHD information.

Oh rats.
bifftannen's Avatar bifftannen 01:56 PM 03-05-2011
OK probably stupid question but am i supposed to be able to control the tests with my Blu Ray player's remote?

Menu options work fine but once i get into the first test (set black level to lowest setting) I can't do anything - meaning i cant scroll to numbers or move the "reference black" line or anything.

I'm using the HDMV version on a Samsung C6500 Blu Ray player.
bifftannen's Avatar bifftannen 02:03 PM 03-05-2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by bifftannen View Post

OK probably stupid question but am i supposed to be able to control the tests with my Blu Ray player's remote?

Menu options work fine but once i get into the first test (set black level to lowest setting) I can't do anything - meaning i cant scroll to numbers or move the "reference black" line or anything.

I'm using the HDMV version on a Samsung C6500 Blu Ray player.

LOL never mind, I'm an idiot.
mrvideo's Avatar mrvideo 02:06 PM 03-05-2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by bifftannen View Post

LOL never mind, I'm an idiot.

You beat me to it
alluringreality's Avatar alluringreality 08:54 PM 03-05-2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrvideo View Post

What are the folders that need to be added?

There are some empty folders that appear in the Blu-ray (HDMV) download that are not on the current AVCHD version. I would probably just match whatever the default multiAVCHD output marked AVCHD includes. I'm not on my main computer and cannot say if multiAVCHD just includes the items under BDMV or also CERTIFICATE.

I don't know if firmware ever changed things, or if further details were documented, but http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=144674 seems to suggest that adding the extra Blu-ray directories to the AVCHD might not work for certain players.
osburnfamily's Avatar osburnfamily 08:28 AM 03-06-2011
Greetings all. I have a Windows 7 HTPC for MediaCenter, Hulu+, Netflix & Total Media Bluray blayback connected to a Samsung HP-T4254 Plasma display, via the HDMI output of the ATI 5570 videocard of the HTPC.

I've been strugling to find the correct balance in my calibration attempts that works for everything.

Part of my problem is that I don't know if I should be changing settings in the ATI control panel (like the dynamic contrast, brightness, contrast, limited-vs-full, etc..) or if I should be setting things at the TV Panel. Do I leave the TV settings all "default" and put it in Standard mode then make the changes on the PC-- or leave the PC with all the "default" settings and make all my changes on the TV?

If I make all the changes on the TV, I have a bunch of different options that all seem to be close to the same (ie, HDMI Black level, Black Adjust, Dynamic Contrast, Color Space, Color Tone) and it's hard to know where to start!

And pointers on where to start w/o having to read 91 pages in this thread?

Thanks!
Edo Glvez's Avatar Edo Glvez 11:39 AM 03-06-2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by osburnfamily View Post

Greetings all. I have a Windows 7 HTPC for MediaCenter, Hulu+, Netflix & Total Media Bluray blayback connected to a Samsung HP-T4254 Plasma display, via the HDMI output of the ATI 5570 videocard of the HTPC.

I've been strugling to find the correct balance in my calibration attempts that works for everything.

Part of my problem is that I don't know if I should be changing settings in the ATI control panel (like the dynamic contrast, brightness, contrast, limited-vs-full, etc..) or if I should be setting things at the TV Panel. Do I leave the TV settings all "default" and put it in Standard mode then make the changes on the PC-- or leave the PC with all the "default" settings and make all my changes on the TV?

If I make all the changes on the TV, I have a bunch of different options that all seem to be close to the same (ie, HDMI Black level, Black Adjust, Dynamic Contrast, Color Space, Color Tone) and it's hard to know where to start!

And pointers on where to start w/o having to read 91 pages in this thread?

Thanks!


I have the latest driver (10.2) and roll with everything disabled in the video section except for automatic deinterlacing and pulldown detecion.

I chose to disable edge enhancements, de-noise, de-block, etc. But will enable them once I have time to tune them to my liking, of course dynamic contrast is staying off.


Other than that I enabled the apply to internet video option, and took contrast to 95 so I would get WtW.


On limited vs full, I go full since I use my computer for games, etc.
osburnfamily's Avatar osburnfamily 12:41 PM 03-06-2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by Edo Gálvez View Post

On limited vs full, I go full since I use my computer for games, etc.

Thank you for your suggestions.

So if I'm using the HTPC for games, hulu (web-based), netflix (web-based), bluray, and SD & HD tv, then I should choose FULL, leave the PC display settings all unchecked (including dynamic contrast). Then go to the TV and make all the brightness/contrast adjustments from there.

I'll work with that. Thanks!
Tags: Lcd Hdtv , Led Hdtv , lg bp530
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