ColorHCFR v2.0 Available... - Page 13 - AVS Forum
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post #361 of 985 Old 03-23-2008, 09:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdbimmer View Post

Maybe this will answer your question: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...9#post13009159

So it is currently by design.

Am I doing the correct thing by using the animated black level patterns under "Test Pattern" verses "Display Pattern" ?

AJF

No such thing as a stupid question! Well have you got a minute ?
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post #362 of 985 Old 03-23-2008, 10:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdbimmer View Post

It's an interesting concept.



you mean getting bored at night?

Well I thought about temperature drifts but I've attached the sensor to the screen with the shoebox for more than one our to let it "acclimatate".

Once started Iìve recalibrated very often, turning off TV (hope it's enough).
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post #363 of 985 Old 03-23-2008, 10:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AFryia View Post

So it is currently by design.

Am I doing the correct thing by using the animated black level patterns under "Test Pattern" verses "Display Pattern" ?

Yes. If you wanted to use any of the brightness or black level "Display" patterns instead, you would have to figure out where digital 16 is. At some point I did screen captures of these and checked them in Photoshop, but I didn't save the results.
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post #364 of 985 Old 03-23-2008, 10:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blutarsky View Post



you mean getting bored at night?

Well I thought about temperature drifts but I've attached the sensor to the screen with the shoebox for more than one our to let it "acclimatate".

Once started Iìve recalibrated very often, turning off TV (hope it's enough).

I realize that this is somewhat off-topic from your original RGB vs. Continuous problem, but I have to see what this box looks like...post a photo if you can, I am curious. What about checking the box for any impact on color measurements? I am not sure how the box is configured, but even if it looks neutral gray or black, it may not be. As an extreme example, if the box was red, the light from the test pattern could reflect off the box and shift the reading towards red.
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post #365 of 985 Old 03-23-2008, 10:38 AM
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Quote:


Once started Iìve recalibrated very often, turning off TV (hope it's enough).

Also, this may not be a good idea...One can only guess how quickly the display cools down, and what impact that might have on the next measure, and whether or not it might need another 10 to 20 minutes to warm up again. Again, this is something you can measure. Maybe I am crazy, but I always try to measure for and either rule out or adjust for any potential procedural or environmental impact on the measurements.
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post #366 of 985 Old 03-23-2008, 11:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdbimmer View Post

I realize that this is somewhat off-topic from your original RGB vs. Continuous problem, but I have to see what this box looks like...post a photo if you can, I am curious. What about checking the box for any impact on color measurements? I am not sure how the box is configured, but even if it looks neutral gray or black, it may not be. As an extreme example, if the box was red, the light from the test pattern could reflect off the box and shift the reading towards red.

Hehhe I understand. Remember that last night when experiencing the RGB problem, there was no shoebox, but yes maybe I should paint it in matte black....

I had a test right now (it's night again in Italy!)

1) I've put the sensor in a leather sack (complitely black no light can get inside)

2) turned off the lights and TV, and reclibrated the offsets

3) Threw some measures in complitely dark and TV off conditions, just after recal: x=0.320, y=0.195, Y=0.000

3) Attached the sensor to the TV (off) with the box, turned on the lights and measured with HCFR.

4) No changes!!! Also if turning on 2x200 Halogen lamps in the room!
HCFR measures same values: x=0.320, y=0.195, Y=0.000

I'm sure the box is far from perfect but having the sensor attached to the screen plus the box around it it looks like if it works. Dunno about color reflections, but as you can see in the pics I'm attaching, the sensor is about 1,5cm far from sensor's shell border..
LL
LL
LL
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post #367 of 985 Old 03-23-2008, 11:44 AM
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A little crude but very crafty! But I am confused - you measured once with the box and once without? And the Y was 0.000 with the TV off and still 0.000 when it was on?
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post #368 of 985 Old 03-23-2008, 11:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdbimmer View Post

A little crude but very crafty! But I am confused - you measured once with the box and once without? And the Y was 0.000 with the TV off and still 0.000 when it was on?

Absolutely crude, but that's it! :-)

I've measured once without the box, in complitely dark conditions to check what measurements HCFR could read with the TV OFF.

Then I've measured with the box on, TV OFF, and lights (2x200W) ON. If there was any light leakage HCFR would read some Ys, but as I've wrote it was Y=0.000

Was it a correct procedure?
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post #369 of 985 Old 03-23-2008, 12:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blutarsky View Post

Absolutely crude, but that's it! :-)

I've measured once without the box, in complitely dark conditions to check what measurements HCFR could read with the TV OFF.

Then I've measured with the box on, TV OFF, and lights (2x200W) ON. If there was any light leakage HCFR would read some Ys, but as I've wrote it was Y=0.000

Was it a correct procedure?

under 3), you said you turned the TV on and still get Y=0.000 which is confusing but
in your reply, you say "TV OFF", which makes more sense.
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post #370 of 985 Old 03-23-2008, 12:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blutarsky View Post

Absolutely crude, but that's it! :-)

I've measured once without the box, in complitely dark conditions to check what measurements HCFR could read with the TV OFF.

Then I've measured with the box on, TV OFF, and lights (2x200W) ON. If there was any light leakage HCFR would read some Ys, but as I've wrote it was Y=0.000

Was it a correct procedure?

Yes, and that seems to prove it works - I am going to have to try this now . As Rickardl said, it was confusing, but now it makes sense.
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post #371 of 985 Old 03-23-2008, 12:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rickardl View Post

under 3), you said you turned the TV on and still get Y=0.000 which is confusing but
in your reply, you say "TV OFF", which makes more sense.

Sorry you're right, I've edited the message!

Do you think it is a correct procedure to check if any light leakage?
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post #372 of 985 Old 03-23-2008, 12:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdbimmer View Post

Yes, and that seems to prove it works - I am going to have to try this now . As Rickardl said, it was confusing, but now it makes sense.

The box is easy to setup. The difficult part is to make the edges stick perfectly to the screen, some rubber stripes would be perfect. Another difficulty is to make the sensor attached properly to the screen...I have stuffed some tissues in the box to enable a sort of "spring" effect, a very "gentle" pression on the sensor to make it "kiss" the screen.

PLEASE NOTICE that the tape is used only to make a "flip" and it is not sticking on the screen. Both sides of the tape (one visible in the pictures, one faceing th screen) aren't sticky.
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post #373 of 985 Old 03-23-2008, 01:30 PM
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So guys do you confirm that every ten minutes you detach the sensor from screen, put it in a zero-light condition, recalibrate, then reattach it on screen and start measuring??
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post #374 of 985 Old 03-23-2008, 01:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blutarsky View Post

So guys do you confirm that every ten minutes you detach the sensor from screen, put it in a zero-light condition, recalibrate, then reattach it on screen and start measuring??

Seems useless!.....I've made another test:

1) TV on with the sensor attached on screen for hours.

2) complitely dark room, TV off, sensor in the black leather pack, recal offsets

3) immediately turn on TV to keep TV warm

4) reattach the sensor on screen

5) turn off all lights and TV off

6) Do measurements: x=0.320, y=0.195, Y=0.000

If there's any glow, eyeone can't read at all....

What do you think, could it be safe to recal in that way?
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post #375 of 985 Old 03-24-2008, 08:54 AM
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Seems reasonable. The recal should mostly affect the low % stimulus measures, so if you don't see shifts, then your procedure is good. I don't have a D2, but I have an i1Pro which really shows more of a difference when recalibrated. I also have DTP94's which seem to have more stability over a wider temperature range and require less frequent recalibration.
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post #376 of 985 Old 03-24-2008, 01:23 PM
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Last night I've experienced serious problems with eyeone display lt.... will tell you in the temp drift thread...
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post #377 of 985 Old 03-24-2008, 02:44 PM
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I have both an Eye-One Pro and a Spyder II (after buying the Spyder and discovering it really couldn't be trusted, I decided to get the Eye One) Anyway, just for the sake of having it, I thought I'd try to build a cal file for the Spyder using the Eye One. Seems fairly straightforward, I took a series of measures using the Eye One and labeled it as the reference document. Then I loaded up a new document using the Spyder and told it to build a calibration file using simultaneous measures. A couple minutes later, I got the confirmation screen that told me my Spyder was off in the range of 5-10%. Then it gave me the option to save the cal file, so I tried to do so, but kept getting this error message: "You must save this file in current directory to use it later." I tried saving it in a number of different directories (including the install directory and all of its subdirectories), but continued getting the same error. Can anyone tell me what I'm doing wrong? It's driving me nuts!

On a completely unrelated note, I was quoted a few pages back regarding using measured primaries for computing the references for secondaries. It seems to me that if one of your primaries is off (say red, for the sake of argument), then magenta would actually need to move closer to red in order to have equal parts red and blue (which is how the secondaries are defined, right?) The standard reference would be too blue in this case. This is why it would be nice to be able to have the option of whether to use the standard references for secondaries or to compute the secondary references from the measured primaries. It is possible that my understanding of this issue is totally off-base, but if it is not, I'd love to see that functionality added (and it would seem to not be terribly difficult to implement, but then again, I'm not much of a programmer, so I don't know!) Anyway, thanks in advance for your help--I really love the program!
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post #378 of 985 Old 03-24-2008, 03:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drrick View Post

I have both an Eye-One Pro and a Spyder II (after buying the Spyder and discovering it really couldn't be trusted, I decided to get the Eye One) Anyway, just for the sake of having it, I thought I'd try to build a cal file for the Spyder using the Eye One. Seems fairly straightforward, I took a series of measures using the Eye One and labeled it as the reference document. Then I loaded up a new document using the Spyder and told it to build a calibration file using simultaneous measures. A couple minutes later, I got the confirmation screen that told me my Spyder was off in the range of 5-10%. Then it gave me the option to save the cal file, so I tried to do so, but kept getting this error message: "You must save this file in current directory to use it later." I tried saving it in a number of different directories (including the install directory and all of its subdirectories), but continued getting the same error. Can anyone tell me what I'm doing wrong? It's driving me nuts!

I haven't tried building one through simultaneous measures, but here's how I do it (summarized from the HCFR Help files):
1) Measure Primaries: First, you make two primary colors measures (including white), with both probes places roughly at the same place - one for the i1Pro and one for the S2.
2) Create XYZ Matrix: When primary colors and white measures are in both documents, check the "Reference" checkbox on the document linked to the reference colorimeter (i1Pro). Then, activate the other document window (the S2), and select Advanced->XYZ Coordinates Adjustment Matrix->Compute conversion matrix from reference document. Press "Yes" when prompted. The checkbox XYZ Adjust is now checked on the S2 document and it is using the matrix.
3) Save XYZ Matrix: This is optional. It allows you to save the matrix to a file that you can load into other documents. Select the S2 document to make it the active window. Then select Advanced->XYZ Coordinates Adjustment Matrix->Manually Edit XYZ Conversion Matrix. Then press the Save button and save it somewhere with some filename.
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post #379 of 985 Old 03-24-2008, 03:26 PM
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what i shoud write in the colummn under advanced preferences dynamic iris latency time, when iris on my TW1000 takes 15 seconds to close fully?
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post #380 of 985 Old 03-24-2008, 03:29 PM
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With the spyders being as randomly off as they are I assume it would be just as good to trust your probe as it would to use someon elses calibration matrix to attempt to make yours more accurate.

Joel Barsotti
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post #381 of 985 Old 03-24-2008, 03:50 PM
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Sotti,

Why do you think he wants to use someone elses matrix? Drrick is trying to create his own matrix for his own use..probably experimental.
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post #382 of 985 Old 03-24-2008, 03:56 PM
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No, I mostly want to validate my statement, so I don't go asking for his matrix since I'm stuck with my spyder2.



And also so this thread doesn't turn into 1000 spyder2 users asking for the calibration matrix.

I understood that was creating the matrix for personal experimintation.

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post #383 of 985 Old 03-24-2008, 04:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sotti View Post

No, I mostly want to validate my statement, so I don't go asking for his matrix since I'm stuck with my spyder2.


And also so this thread doesn't turn into 1000 spyder2 users asking for the calibration matrix.

LOL - I don't want to see those 1000 posts either, so I appreciate that. And yes, you are absolutly right - his matrix would be useless for anyone else to use for 2 reasons: 1) As you alluded to..the S2 probe to probe variations can be horrendous, and 2) Assuming those variations didn't exist, it would only work for the exact same display that drrick owns.

However, and let me stress the word THEORETICALLY, if you had a probe with minimal and proven probe-to-probe consistency (and there's not enough data to include even the D2 or DTP94 in this group), one might be able to share a matrix that was made for the same model display. This is the idea behind the HCFR probe and it's calibration files.
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post #384 of 985 Old 03-25-2008, 12:58 PM
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Any hints on when SPYDER_3 support will be forthcoming?

ted
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post #385 of 985 Old 03-25-2008, 01:19 PM - Thread Starter
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In next version, as to "when", I dunno...

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post #386 of 985 Old 03-26-2008, 08:00 AM
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Good evening guys,
can the HCFR team say if there's a chance to take in account sensor's temperature drifts?

It's quite boring having to dedicated half of your energies to keep the sensor stable, instead of focusing on calibration results.
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post #387 of 985 Old 03-26-2008, 08:06 AM
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Hello
Quote:
Originally Posted by tvted View Post

Any hints on when SPYDER_3 support will be forthcoming?

My free time was very very short since the beginning of the year, but I already have all the necessary stuff. I will start working on it very soon (probably tomorrow )

Georges
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post #388 of 985 Old 03-28-2008, 03:55 AM
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Guys,
a suggestion for the colorHCFR dev. team:

Could you enable a feature that holds in memory the previous grayscale measurement, showing it as a dotted line on the graph?

Ruleing the grayscale is a tough job, and because when you change just one "click" somewhere you need to measure back again the whole grayscale, it could help to show exactly what changed on the graph. Of course, even without thise feature the biggest changes are obvious... but sometimes, when trying and trying you get confused and this feature could help.

Your opinion?
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post #389 of 985 Old 03-28-2008, 04:10 AM - Thread Starter
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Have you tried the "reference measure" checkbox ?

--Patrice

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post #390 of 985 Old 03-28-2008, 04:13 AM
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Isn't the reference used with reference files? I'm talking about the previous measurement in the same calibrating session...

1) do a grayscale measurement-> you have your graph
2) change something in the device (contrast, blablabla)
1) do a grayscale measurement-> you have your current graph & the graph in (1) dotted....
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