Originally Posted by alluringreality
but what I find it useful for is that if I happen to make a mistake at say 80% in a grayscale run I don't have to re-run the entire series.
Funny you should mention that - that's exactly what happened to me. While doing a grayscale I forgot to advance to the next image on the Blu Ray player and wound up measuring 80% twice. So afterwards I went back and did a free measure of 80, then proceeded to (manually) copy the entires from the Free Measures grid to the Grayscale grid.
However this was quite a pain because I use an XYZ Adjustment so the fields are not editable. So I have to turn the adjustment off, then click in each cell (for x, y and Y separately) within the free measures grid, write them down, the manually click in the grayscale grid and manually type them in to the full decimal point in each x y and Y. This is because copy/paste does not work for me (more on that below).
Personally I think three decimals makes sense so that xy goes to the relevant decimal, and I can't think of an example where higher accuracy really matters. In the example here even 0.002 isn't accurate for Y, so more decimal points would just imply a higher accuracy than actually exists.
What I wrote in my last paragraph above is a great example of why I want the full decimal places - I don't want to copy .299 into Grayscale Measures when referencing a measure I want to duplicate from Free Measures when the measure is actually 0.299460.
So in order to see the full 0.299460 in the cell instead of just the 0.299 it displays, I have to click in the cell.
In fact allow me to detail 3 bugs I just came across:Bug 1:
Furthermore there is a tiny bug in that one cannot then highlight the full value and copy it to the clipboard. It will not copy. As an exercise try this, make your cells editable, then go into any cell, highlight the number in there and press CTRL-C. Then go into any program like Notepad or whatever and try to paste it in. You'll get nothing or whatever was in the clipboard before you tried CTRL-C - so the copy to clipboard of CTRL-C is confirmed NOT to work in these cases.Bug 2:
Likewise copy any value into your clipboard like 0.123456 from notepad or wherever, then go into a cell and try CTRL-V to paste - nothing happens. Paste operation does not work.
Far as I can tell ctrl+c and then ctrl+v already works. If I select the column on copy and then select the first line on paste it works for me.
Yes, thanks for pointing that out. If you highlight all the rows in a column in a measure you can use CTRL-C and then CTRL-V to paste it into another set of
rows in a column, however doing so truncates the decimal places to 3 places so you lose precision, which brings me to bug 3:Bug 3:
A highlighted columns that are copied and then pasted into another set of columns results in a lose of precision of the numbers in the pasted values. Replicate like this: a) run a grayscale measure, b) click to highlight the results for 30% gray and hit CTRL-C, c) click to highlight the results for 40% gray and press CTRL-V.
At first glance it seems this worked as expected, as the numbers in 30% and 40% look identical. However now click in the cells in the 40% column and you'll see they've all be truncated at the 3rd decimal place. For example if you click in the x y and Y for 30% as saw:
when you click on x y and Y in 40% instead you would see there:
Perhaps this would not have a significant impact on all types of measurements, but I like to be as exact as possible and as such am forced to manually write down each value (or try to memorize it) because CTRL-C does not work, and the manually have to type in each value because CTRL-V does not work.
One example where this error can and does make a huge difference is in on/off contrast measures when it comes to black level: Let's say my white reading is 60, and my black level is 0.002489. That works out to 24106:1 CR. Now with the pasting error it would be 60 / 0.002000 which works out to 30,000:1. So this decimal precision issue would then cause the on/off CR measure to be overstated by 25%! This is why I put forth that maintain full decimal precision across copy and paste operations is important.
Now, one may argue that it doesn't really matter because the readings are not accurate at that decimal precision anyway. But nonetheless if I'm copying a measure from one place to another I want it to be exact for consistency purposes.
Delta E 1976 doesn't even try to be perceptually uniform, so I really miss the general value of closely watching dE numbers. For example if you have an oversaturated green that has a good hue, dE 1976 will indicate reducing lightness of green to lower dE. If green is much oversaturated the minimum dE will appear at a very low lightness that looks nothing like intended. Delta E 1994 will also suggest the same change, but lightness isn't quite so low.
I am mainly referring to dE of the grayscale measurements. Currently I have to be in the Free Measures window when I take a free measure if I want to see dE. What I want to be able to do is remain in the Grayscale Measures window, take a free measure, and see the dE included will all the other info that shows up in the "Selected Color" portion of that window for the free measure.
I think you can already do what you're asking for here. Take one run, and then click the reference meaure in the upper right of the measures tab. Click new and then take a second run. The first and second run will both display on the graphics for the second run.
Yes indeed! Thank you. I didn't realize this and this is very helpful. I thought that reference check box was used only as part of the meter training, but I see now its other purpose. It would still be great to tell HCFR "ok I'm measuring 60% as a free measure - now plot it on the RGB graph". This would be similar to how free measures automatically plot today on the CIE chart. The key difference of course is with the CIE chart you don't have to tell it what % level you are reading, whereas with the RGB Graph you would - and perhaps that's why it is not implemented, yet.
Thanks for all the great input and opportunity to provide this feedback. I look forward to hearing additional thoughts on this.