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post #631 of 985 Old 01-20-2009, 02:29 PM
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I have a feeling alot of us might have to go over to ColorHCFR forums and use Google Translate.

C.

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post #632 of 985 Old 01-21-2009, 06:41 AM
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A few somewhat serious bugs to point out in HCFR:

1) The dE is not correct in the “saturation scale” tables for all of the primary and secondary colors. The only time it will show the correct dE for 0%, 25%, 50%, 75% and 100% saturation is if the 100% saturation point is perfectly aligned to the 100% target.(which seldom, if ever, will happen). dE for all of these points should simply be calculated based on the target x, y Y points for the various saturations.

2) The Saturation-Luminance Chart is wrong. For some strange reason, HCFR assumes that the luminance at the measured 100% saturation point is correct, and then adjusts the 0%, 25%, 50% and 75% luminance points based on that assumption. All points on this luminance chart should be referenced against the 100% gray measurement for luminance.

3) In the preferences menu (General tab), why would you ever put in the option for “Use measured colors (when available))? This only leads to an incorrect graph in the Saturation-shifts chart. If this is checked, it makes it looks as though all of the measured 100% saturation points are correct, when they really aren’t. It also makes all the other saturation and Hue points on the chart incorrect due to this.

A request:

Could you please include the option to display all of the saturation targets to the CIE chart? For instance, not just 100% red saturation, but also 25%, 50% and 75% saturation?

If you need examples of the bugs above, I can provide my HCFR file and explain it in more detail.

By the way, I love this software. Very user friendly and accurate. Once these bugs are worked out, it will be fantastic!

Dan
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post #633 of 985 Old 01-23-2009, 08:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stereomandan View Post

A few somewhat serious bugs to point out in HCFR:

1) The dE is not correct in the saturation scale tables for all of the primary and secondary colors. The only time it will show the correct dE for 0%, 25%, 50%, 75% and 100% saturation is if the 100% saturation point is perfectly aligned to the 100% target.(which seldom, if ever, will happen). dE for all of these points should simply be calculated based on the target x, y Y points for the various saturations.

2) The Saturation-Luminance Chart is wrong. For some strange reason, HCFR assumes that the luminance at the measured 100% saturation point is correct, and then adjusts the 0%, 25%, 50% and 75% luminance points based on that assumption. All points on this luminance chart should be referenced against the 100% gray measurement for luminance.

3) In the preferences menu (General tab), why would you ever put in the option for Use measured colors (when available))? This only leads to an incorrect graph in the Saturation-shifts chart. If this is checked, it makes it looks as though all of the measured 100% saturation points are correct, when they really aren't. It also makes all the other saturation and Hue points on the chart incorrect due to this.

A request:

Could you please include the option to display all of the saturation targets to the CIE chart? For instance, not just 100% red saturation, but also 25%, 50% and 75% saturation?

If you need examples of the bugs above, I can provide my HCFR file and explain it in more detail.

By the way, I love this software. Very user friendly and accurate. Once these bugs are worked out, it will be fantastic!

Dan

Have you confirmed this to be a bug in the newly released ver 2.1?
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post #634 of 985 Old 01-23-2009, 10:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by _XipHiaS_ View Post

Latest version (3.0.7) Spyder.dll from Spyder3Utility not working, older version work.
On Spyder III parameters tab i can't select a display type like LCD, CRT ... not even a pulldown menu there. Is that an error, or is it correct for this (Elite) sensor?

The Spyder3 (from Spyder3TV package) I just received and used had a version 1.1.0.3 Spyder3.DLL file in the TV software. It worked though my results were not good and it also did not allow for selection of TV type.

Was your DLL file actually just "Spyder.dll" or "Spyder3.dll" ? And where did you find the Spyder3 Utility software ? Did it come with your software package ? There was no utility on my software CD and I don't see it on the DataColor website either.

Sean
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post #635 of 985 Old 01-23-2009, 11:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nicholc2 View Post

Have you confirmed this to be a bug in the newly released ver 2.1?

Yes, confirmed. Nothing has changed in the new release.

Dan
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post #636 of 985 Old 01-24-2009, 12:17 AM
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Looks like ColorHCFR uses wrong luma coefficients for PAL/NTSC (reference values in the Saturation-luminance graph).

According to Poynton's "Digital Video and HDTV Algorithms and Interfaces":
Quote:
p.238
The luma coefficients chosen for the NTSC system – 0.299, 0.587, and 0.114 – were chosen in 1953...The EBU retained, for PAL, the well-established NTSC luma coefficients.
p.292
Despite the change in primaries, the luma coefficients for 480i and 576i video have remained unchanged from the values that were established in 1953.

RECOMMENDATION ITU-R BT.601-5:
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p.1
recommends
that the following be used as a basis for digital coding standards for television studios in countries using the 525-line system as well as in those using the 625-line system
p.2
The construction of luminance and colour-difference signals is as follows:
E'Y = 0.299 E'R + 0.587 E'G + 0.114 E'B

So even if these coefficients are not theoretically correct one should use them.
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post #637 of 985 Old 01-24-2009, 02:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stash64 View Post

The Spyder3 (from Spyder3TV package) I just received and used had a version 1.1.0.3 Spyder3.DLL file in the TV software. It worked though my results were not good and it also did not allow for selection of TV type.

Was your DLL file actually just "Spyder.dll" or "Spyder3.dll" ? And where did you find the Spyder3 Utility software ? Did it come with your software package ? There was no utility on my software CD and I don't see it on the DataColor website either.

Yes, Spyder3.dll: http://support.colorvision.ch/index....nloads&_a=view.
My Spyder3Elite package included the Spyder Utility software (v. 3.0.1.4) on CD.
I downloaded the newer versions from the website.

Now i'm using a v.1.1.0.4 spyder3.dll from a prev. downloaded version.

Spyder3.DLL v.1.2.1.1 is the latest one (packed with the Spyder3Utility 3.0.7 utility) and not working with ColorHCFR 2.1 at the moment.
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post #638 of 985 Old 01-24-2009, 04:42 AM
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Dan,

It's been awhile since I looked at this stuff. I've been enjoying watching movies instead of calibrating of late but I'll take a stab at your questions.

Quote:


1) The dE is not correct in the saturation scale tables for all of the primary and secondary colors. The only time it will show the correct dE for 0%, 25%, 50%, 75% and 100% saturation is if the 100% saturation point is perfectly aligned to the 100% target.(which seldom, if ever, will happen). dE for all of these points should simply be calculated based on the target x, y Y points for the various saturations.

This may be a design decision aka a feature and not a bug as we say in the software business. Essentially, the saturation measures are measuring how well a color tracks from the display's white point (0% saturation should ideally be the same point as D65) to the display's actual color point (100% saturation should ideally be the same point as your primary/secondary measures color points no matter what brightness level you used for those measures - typically 75% or 100%). So, the dE values on the Saturation Shifts graph that are being calculated are based on where the point should be based on the two end points for the color in question. The following is from the HCFR help file for the Saturation Shifts graph:

"Note: This delta E is not a "true" delta E, because it is not computed using a fixed reference point, but using a projected point on a line coming from white to a primary or secondary color. It means delta E values used to draw these curves are different than those displayed in measures grid. Moreover, this delta E value never takes luminance into account, regardless "Do not use luminance in delta E formula" option in advanced preferences."

[quote]2) The Saturation-Luminance Chart is wrong. For some strange reason, HCFR assumes that the luminance at the measured 100% saturation point is correct, and then adjusts the 0%, 25%, 50% and 75% luminance points based on that assumption. All points on this luminance chart should be referenced against the 100% gray measurement for luminance.[/QUJOTE]

Yes, this is what it is doing. It is calculating the Y value used as the reference based on the assumption that the 100% saturation/100% brightness pattern is correct. i.e. if yellow measures 100 Y then ~107.76 is the reference value used assuming the HD709 standard is chosen. It then uses this number to calculate the rest of the percentages. I agree that ideally it should use a 100% white pattern Y value. Perhaps if they could check to see if you've done a grayscale reading and then they could use the 100% Y reading (or the 100% reading from the near white measures). I can see why they can't use the measured white Y value from the primaries/secondaries measures since they can't assume that you used 100% brightness patterns for those measurements. For example, I use 75% brightness patterns typically. Perhaps the easiest thing to do would be to simply add a 100% white pattern at the end of the saturation run an measure that to be used as the reference for the saturation luminance graph.

Quote:


Could you please include the option to display all of the saturation targets to the CIE chart? For instance, not just 100% red saturation, but also 25%, 50% and 75% saturation?

What happens when you right click on the CIE chart and choose 'Display Saturations'? By default the CIE chart is only showing you your measured primaries and secondaries (which were probably done with either a set of 75% or 100% brightness/100% saturated test patterns).

hope this helps,


--tom
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post #639 of 985 Old 01-24-2009, 05:38 AM
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First Thomas, thanks for the reply

Quote:
Originally Posted by thomasl View Post

Dan,

It's been awhile since I looked at this stuff. I've been enjoying watching movies instead of calibrating of late but I'll take a stab at your questions.



This may be a design decision aka a feature and not a bug as we say in the software business. Essentially, the saturation measures are measuring how well a color tracks from the display's white point (0% saturation should ideally be the same point as D65) to the display's actual color point (100% saturation should ideally be the same point as your primary/secondary measures color points no matter what brightness level you used for those measures - typically 75% or 100%). So, the dE values on the Saturation Shifts graph that are being calculated are based on where the point should be based on the two end points for the color in question. The following is from the HCFR help file for the Saturation Shifts graph:

"Note: This delta E is not a "true" delta E, because it is not computed using a fixed reference point, but using a projected point on a line coming from white to a primary or secondary color. It means delta E values used to draw these curves are different than those displayed in measures grid. Moreover, this delta E value never takes luminance into account, regardless "Do not use luminance in delta E formula" option in advanced preferences."

Actually Thomas, I was talking about the Delta E in the tables, not the saturation-shift chart. I realize that the Delta-E in the saturation-shift chart is for Hue only(no luminance) and I am perfectly happy with that. I actually prefer it. The problem is, when you choose the drop-down table for Red Saturation Scale for instance, none of the Delta-E's are calculated correct.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2 View Post

The Saturation-Luminance Chart is wrong. For some strange reason, HCFR assumes that the luminance at the measured 100% saturation point is correct, and then adjusts the 0%, 25%, 50% and 75% luminance points based on that assumption. All points on this luminance chart should be referenced against the 100% gray measurement for luminance.

Yes, this is what it is doing. It is calculating the Y value used as the reference based on the assumption that the 100% saturation/100% brightness pattern is correct. i.e. if yellow measures 100 Y then ~107.76 is the reference value used assuming the HD709 standard is chosen. It then uses this number to calculate the rest of the percentages. I agree that ideally it should use a 100% white pattern Y value. Perhaps if they could check to see if you've done a grayscale reading and then they could use the 100% Y reading (or the 100% reading from the near white measures). I can see why they can't use the measured white Y value from the primaries/secondaries measures since they can't assume that you used 100% brightness patterns for those measurements. For example, I use 75% brightness patterns typically. Perhaps the easiest thing to do would be to simply add a 100% white pattern at the end of the saturation run an measure that to be used as the reference for the saturation luminance graph.

I agree, they should either add a 100% white measurement window to the end of the saturation scale measurements and use that as the brightness reference. That would solve the issue.

What happens when you right click on the CIE chart and choose 'Display Saturations'? By default the CIE chart is only showing you your measured primaries and secondaries (which were probably done with either a set of 75% or 100% brightness/100% saturated test patterns).

Yes, it will show the measured saturations, but not the target reference points for the 25-75% saturation measurements.

hope this helps,


--tom[/quote]
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post #640 of 985 Old 01-24-2009, 07:36 AM
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Dan,

Quote:


Actually Thomas, I was talking about the Delta E in the tables, not the saturation-shift chart. I realize that the Delta-E in the saturation-shift chart is for Hue only(no luminance) and I am perfectly happy with that. I actually prefer it. The problem is, when you choose the drop-down table for Red Saturation Scale for instance, none of the Delta-E's are calculated correct.

Ok, I gotcha. Sorry for the misinterpretation. Yes, I'm not sure how they are calculating those dEs. Using a separate program that I wrote for calculating various dEs (LUV, 1976, etc), when I take the x,y data for my red 100% saturation reading, HCFR tells me in the Red-Saturation Scale measurement info that it has a dE of 2.0 but my program tells me that compared to the HD709 red color point, the dELUV value should be ~2.5 and compared to my measured red primary color point (taken with a 75% brightness/100% saturation pattern off of the GetGray disc), it should be ~3.7. All of these values are calculated without taking luminance into account. So, I can't seem to re-produce how they are getting the 2.0 value.

Quote:


Yes, it will show the measured saturations, but not the target reference points for the 25-75% saturation measurements.

Ok, gotcha again. Yes, it doesn't show the targets that they have calculated given your white point and measured color point. Since they must have that data somewhere, I'm guessing it wouldn't be too difficult to add an option choice to display them when you right click on the CIE chart.

hope this helps,


--tom
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post #641 of 985 Old 01-24-2009, 01:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by _XipHiaS_ View Post

Yes, Spyder3.dll: http://support.colorvision.ch/index....nloads&_a=view.
My Spyder3Elite package included the Spyder Utility software (v. 3.0.1.4) on CD.
I downloaded the newer versions from the website.

Now i'm using a v.1.1.0.4 spyder3.dll from a prev. downloaded version.

Spyder3.DLL v.1.2.1.1 is the latest one (packed with the Spyder3Utility 3.0.7 utility) and not working with ColorHCFR 2.1 at the moment.

I also realized last night I did not have the latest DLL. CalMan 3.2 comes with v1.2.0.1 of the Spyder3.DLL. Glad you got it working.

Sean
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post #642 of 985 Old 01-25-2009, 06:30 PM
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Quote:


1) The dE is not correct in the saturation scale tables for all of the primary and secondary colors. The only time it will show the correct dE for 0%, 25%, 50%, 75% and 100% saturation is if the 100% saturation point is perfectly aligned to the 100% target.(which seldom, if ever, will happen). dE for all of these points should simply be calculated based on the target x, y Y points for the various saturations.

Dan, do you know how exactly they are calculating the dE in the saturation measurements tab? I've been trying a few methods and can't reproduce the numbers that they are displaying.

I'm assuming that what you want are dE measures that are based on the target reference (e.g. HD709) that is chosen and the subsequent saturation points that are derived from that.

cheers,


--tom
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post #643 of 985 Old 01-26-2009, 06:25 AM
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Tom,

Hopefully this will make sense. It’s hard to explain.

If you use dE (Luv) it will match HCFR’s Delta E numbers well.(but only if the 100% saturation in the saturation-scale is dead-on target for x, y and Y.)

I took Tom Huffman’s spreadsheet for delta E and modified it. I changed the target points in his spreadsheet to target the 25%, 50% …100% saturation points that AVSHD calls for and can get them to match HCFR.

If you download my spreadsheet here, you can unhide the worksheets that have my calculations for delta E. Just go to format, sheet, unhide, and unhide all the dELuv sheets. They aren’t pretty, but you will see the calculations.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1111066

For instance, go to the red saturation scale in HCFR and click the “Editable Data” box. Now enter x=0.64, y = 0.33 and Y at 21.26% of whatever your 100% gray measurement is. Then the delta E for 100% red saturation will be zero and the other delta E’s will be correct and match what is in my spreadsheet. This is all due to the fact that HCFR is basing all of it’s calculations on assuming that the 100% saturation point is correct, which is just not the correct way to do it in my opinion.

Dan
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post #644 of 985 Old 01-26-2009, 07:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stereomandan View Post

Tom,

Hopefully this will make sense. It's hard to explain.

If you use dE (Luv) it will match HCFR's Delta E numbers well.(but only if the 100% saturation in the saturation-scale is dead-on target for x, y and Y.)

I took Tom Huffman's spreadsheet for delta E and modified it. I changed the target points in his spreadsheet to target the 25%, 50% 100% saturation points that AVSHD calls for and can get them to match HCFR.

If you download my spreadsheet here, you can unhide the worksheets that have my calculations for delta E. Just go to format, sheet, unhide, and unhide all the dELuv sheets. They aren't pretty, but you will see the calculations.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1111066

For instance, go to the red saturation scale in HCFR and click the Editable Data box. Now enter x=0.64, y = 0.33 and Y at 21.26% of whatever your 100% gray measurement is. Then the delta E for 100% red saturation will be zero and the other delta E's will be correct and match what is in my spreadsheet. This is all due to the fact that HCFR is basing all of it's calculations on assuming that the 100% saturation point is correct, which is just not the correct way to do it in my opinion.

Dan

Hey Dan, is there a way to set HCFR to "think" that 75% saturation points are the 100% saturation points? I'm not in front of it right now, but what your describing above made me think....It would be a lot easier to get the x,y values of a color to 75% saturation by having a graphical representation of exactly where these points are, much like you're doing when setting the standard 75% or 100% luminance of colors. It's somewhat tricky to get the x,y numbers dead on when all you have to look at are the values themselves, because they all act differently when playing with hue and saturation. I can certainly do it, but it sure would be easier to look at something moving around, like a realtime CIE chart!
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post #645 of 985 Old 01-26-2009, 08:43 AM
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Unfortunately, no. If they add the reference locations for the 25%, 50% and 75% saturations to the gamut chart, then yes you will be able to do that. It would be very convenient. At this time I don't know how to trick HCFR. I think I would have to get into the source code to do that, and I can't do that.

Dan
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post #646 of 985 Old 01-26-2009, 08:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cbaseuser View Post

Hey Dan, is there a way to set HCFR to "think" that 75% saturation points are the 100% saturation points? I'm not in front of it right now, but what your describing above made me think....It would be a lot easier to get the x,y values of a color to 75% saturation by having a graphical representation of exactly where these points are, much like you're doing when setting the standard 75% or 100% luminance of colors. It's somewhat tricky to get the x,y numbers dead on when all you have to look at are the values themselves, because they all act differently when playing with hue and saturation. I can certainly do it, but it sure would be easier to look at something moving around, like a realtime CIE chart!

Quote:
Originally Posted by stereomandan View Post

Unfortunately, no. If they add the reference locations for the 25%, 50% and 75% saturations to the gamut chart, then yes you will be able to do that. It would be very convenient. At this time I don't know how to trick HCFR. I think I would have to get into the source code to do that, and I can't do that.

Dan

You can use the 'reference' option on the right side of the data tab. That's what I do to adjust my secondaries to the calculated values based on my primaries being off.

-Greg
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post #647 of 985 Old 01-26-2009, 10:12 AM
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That brings up a great work around. I created this HCFR file and entered the 75% saturation points into the location for 100% saturated primaries.

So open HCFR, then open this 75% Reference file, and click the box that says Reference Measure. Then open a new file, and in the CIE gamut chart, choose the option, Display Reference Measure. The 75% locations will now show up on the gamut chart and you can target them.

Dan

 

75% Reference.zip 0.72265625k . file
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post #648 of 985 Old 01-26-2009, 10:28 AM
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Here is how I use it. I measure the primaries, then I plug the numbers into the Accupel calculator to determine the secondaries (see the .bmp file) then set it as my 'reference' target and adjust tint.

 

1-18-2009.zip 44.423828125k . file

-Greg
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post #649 of 985 Old 01-26-2009, 11:20 AM
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Thanks a million Dan and angry....this will make things so much easier when I get my replacement 6500UB!!!!!!!!
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post #650 of 985 Old 01-26-2009, 11:57 AM
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That is really cute, Dan. It leaves me with two fascinating questions. In my Samsung LN46A650, it appears the built-in color domain is not quite large enough to cover primary green, at least if I trust the EyeOne instrument. So I've been trying to pull it as close as I can. But using your 75% triangle, it makes me wonder whether in its native/twisted color space, the measured 75% saturation point is actually closer to the target than 75% of the calibrated green primary.

The second question that had not yet occurred to me is touched on in angry's note. I've been following the basic advice of trying to tune the secondaries as close as possible to the defined targets. But where, in my case, I cannot make the primary green right, maybe my target for the corresponding magenta secondary should be the reflection of the measured primary, not the target from the specification. That way the primary and its corresponding secondary would add to D65 white as they should.

The question of how to measure error and against what you measure it is fascinating.
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post #651 of 985 Old 01-26-2009, 12:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Mitchell View Post

That is really cute, Dan. It leaves me with two fascinating questions. In my Samsung LN46A650, it appears the built-in color domain is not quite large enough to cover primary green, at least if I trust the EyeOne instrument. So I've been trying to pull it as close as I can. But using your 75% triangle, it makes me wonder whether in its native/twisted color space, the measured 75% saturation point is actually closer to the target than 75% of the calibrated green primary.

The second question that had not yet occurred to me is touched on in angry's note. I've been following the basic advice of trying to tune the secondaries as close as possible to the defined targets. But where, in my case, I cannot make the primary green right, maybe my target for the corresponding magenta secondary should be the reflection of the measured primary, not the target from the specification. That way the primary and its corresponding secondary would add to D65 white as they should.

The question of how to measure error and against what you measure it is fascinating.

Here is an excerpt from Tom Huffman's article in Widescreen Review, December 2008. I would suggest getting the entire article/issue:
Quote:


The question remains: toward which targets do I aim? The values
listed in the table above are valid for the Rec. 709 gamut only. But
what if your display does not have Rec. 709 primaries? It may not
have primaries that correspond to any recognized gamut. In this
case, one should adjust the brightness of the primary colors and the
hue and saturation of the secondary colors to best match the targets
derived from the methods detailed in this article. The color will
appear more natural than if one adjusts for the targets recommended
by the Rec. 709 or SMPTE-C gamuts.

If your primaries are off from the standard and you can't move them, then you need to adjust the secondaries to the new values based on the actual primaries. Same is true for the lightness (Y).

-Greg
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post #652 of 985 Old 01-26-2009, 01:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by angryht View Post

Here is an excerpt from Tom Huffman's article in Widescreen Review, December 2008. I would suggest getting the entire article/issue:

If your primaries are off from the standard and you can't move them, then you need to adjust the secondaries to the new values based on the actual primaries. Same is true for the lightness (Y).

Thanks for the citation. That was exactly where my thoughts were leading me. Starting from scratch, I took the advice from one of the guides on using HCFR, where it suggested focusing on the deltaE of the color table rather than the CIE chart, and that had the beneficial result of making me think as much about the Y value as the xy coordinate. But, after learning a lot in the past couple weeks, I suddenly realized that it's probably really important that the three axes from primary to complement intersect in one point at D65.
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post #653 of 985 Old 01-26-2009, 03:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Mitchell View Post

Thanks for the citation. That was exactly where my thoughts were leading me. Starting from scratch, I took the advice from one of the guides on using HCFR, where it suggested focusing on the deltaE of the color table rather than the CIE chart, and that had the beneficial result of making me think as much about the Y value as the xy coordinate. But, after learning a lot in the past couple weeks, I suddenly realized that it's probably really important that the three axes from primary to complement intersect in one point at D65.

The AccuPel calculator is perfect for this. You enter your new primaries and it will tell you what the secondaries should be to have them line up on the D65 white. Excellent tool. I tried to find a link to the thread, but for some reason I couldn't find it. Just do a quick search.
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post #654 of 985 Old 01-26-2009, 03:52 PM
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Hello All. Here’s my first venture into this thread...

First, thanks for the fantastic software, and the highly respectable pool of experience here.

Secondly, I'd like an expert opinion, please:

This week, I used HFCR v2.1 with a Spyder2 to calibrate a Sony KDL46V25L1 1080p LCDTV. I disabled ALL of the TV's image enhancement settings, and found that the "Warm2" setting is pretty close to D65 and gamma 2.22 already, so grayscale calibration in the Service Menu was easy, and the result was a relatively significant improvement.

HOWEVER, when I checked the primaries, red and blue were fairly close, but green was WAY, WAY off on the CIE diagram. The triangle looks more like a right-angled triangle, with the right-angle at the blue corner. I used the Avia 100% color fields on two different DVD players, both of which correctly output REC709 @1080p60. I also tried a Blu-Ray player using the color bars on "DVE: HD Basics". The result was identical in each case, for all primaries.

This Sony LCD reputedly has the same panel as the XBR2, and when CNET reviewed the XBR2, they reported that the grayscale and each of the primaries were "good" (pretty close to target).

I am using the Spyder's filter (if I remove it, all of the primaries are badly affected, as expected). What could be wrong with the green primary?

Gary
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HappyFunBoater View Post

The AccuPel calculator is perfect for this. You enter your new primaries and it will tell you what the secondaries should be to have them line up on the D65 white. Excellent tool. I tried to find a link to the thread, but for some reason I couldn't find it. Just do a quick search.

www.Accupel.com Look under calculators.

-Greg
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This may be my particular Laptop but does anyone else see a problem displaying the full Data Table on the Measures Tab for "Gray Scale" and "Primary and Secondary Colors" ?

For both "Gray Scale" and "Primary and Secondary Colors" I can see x,y,Y,deltaE,delta xy but not the last line .The vertical scroll slider on the right is grayed out and there doesn't seem to be a way to resize the window .

Am I missing something ?

Scott......................

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post #657 of 985 Old 01-26-2009, 07:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott_R_K View Post

This may be my particular Laptop but does anyone else see a problem displaying the full Data Table on the Measures Tab for "Gray Scale" and "Primary and Secondary Colors" ?

For both "Gray Scale" and "Primary and Secondary Colors" I can see x,y,Y,deltaE,delta xy but not the last line .The vertical scroll slider on the right is grayed out and there doesn't seem to be a way to resize the window .

Am I missing something ?

Scott......................

There is a small horizontal "View" window just above with an up and down arrow. Use the down arrow to expose/expand all the data. It was a surprise when I figured this out as I didn't think these arrows were related to the data tables.

Sean
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post #658 of 985 Old 01-26-2009, 07:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott_R_K View Post

This may be my particular Laptop but does anyone else see a problem displaying the full Data Table on the Measures Tab for "Gray Scale" and "Primary and Secondary Colors" ?

For both "Gray Scale" and "Primary and Secondary Colors" I can see x,y,Y,deltaE,delta xy but not the last line .The vertical scroll slider on the right is grayed out and there doesn't seem to be a way to resize the window .

Am I missing something ?

Scott......................

I'm seeing this behavior on Windows Vista and I reported it to HCFR on their French site. I did discover a workaround on the GrayScale display. If you increase the number of levels from 10 to 20 in the Measures -> Parameters dialog, the horizontal scrollbar becomes active and as a side-effect the bottom line becomes completely visible. You can then see the gamma Y line while measuring the grayscale at every 5% point. There is a 5% grayscale on the AVS HD and on the GetGray calibration disk.
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post #659 of 985 Old 01-26-2009, 09:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stash64 View Post

There is a small horizontal "View" window just above with an up and down arrow. Use the down arrow to expose/expand all the data. It was a surprise when I figured this out as I didn't think these arrows were related to the data tables.

Yup! This man speaketh the truth. Next to the editable data check box.

C.

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post #660 of 985 Old 01-27-2009, 12:58 AM
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Yup! This man speaketh the truth. Next to the editable data check box.

C.

It's true that those arrows affect the behavior as well. Isn't that interesting.
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