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post #91 of 985 Old 01-31-2008, 07:25 AM
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If this question has been asked and answered before then I apologize. I've tried to search this forum, but have not been able to find a definitive answer.

I use a Display 2/LT and HCFR 2.0 and a mix of HCFR 2.0 PAL/DVE Pro PAL DVDs to measure on a Pioneer PDP-428XD TV. In HCFR under Configure Sensor there are two options in particular:

"Calibrate internal sensor offsets" and "time during which device calibration remains valid."

In the help documentation it states the following for Display 2/LT (greyed out the section about CRT and made the most interesting parts bold):

"The button “Calibrate internal sensor offsets” makes it possible to carry out calibration offsets intern of the probe, in order to obtain reliable measurements. This calibration must be carried out very regularly to claim to obtain precise figures. Note: In CRT mode, probe calibration is made by measuring a white surface displayed by the CRT to calibrate. This way, the probe can synchronize itself on CRT frequency. In all other modes, calibration consists in measuring an absolute black (light input closed)."

Currently I have it set to 10 minutes, but I often make a calibration of the sensor offsets before each set of measurements anyway. I make these sensor offsets calibration with a 0 IRE pattern, but my Pioneer does not output 0.000 ftL with this signal. So, my questions are:

1. How often is it recommended that one should do these sensor offsets calibrations?

2. Should I turn off my TV each time I make a sensor offsets calibration?

Really enjoying this new version, thanks again to the developers
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post #92 of 985 Old 01-31-2008, 07:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WolfyA View Post

Display 2/LT

I make these sensor offsets calibration with a 0 IRE pattern, but my Pioneer does not output 0.000 ftL with this signal.

You need to block light to the sensor. I usually press the colorimeter to a black flat surface for the calibration. A 0% screen is expected to measure with some fL value.
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post #93 of 985 Old 01-31-2008, 07:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Georges G View Post

Hello jvincent

The entries in .ini file are the same, you can "hack" dark reading average mechanism to average many readings on any level for Eye One.

[EyeOne]
MinRequestedY=10
MaxReadLoops=8

Above are default values when those lines do not exist. The program loops until the sum of all measured Y is at least 10 (or any other value), or until the number of measures reaches 8 (or any other value). It you put a very high value in MinRequestedY, like 1000000, you will always have the number of measures defined in MaxReadLoops, even for high level readings.

The exact same entries exist under sections [DTPSensor] and [SpyderII], with the same meaning, but for the other probes

Georges

Am I understanding it correctly that the default values:

MinRequestedY=10
MaxReadLoops=8

are used internally if and only if you have selected the option "Average many reads on dark measurements" under Configure Sensor, i.e. when:

AverageReads=1

are set in the .ini file?

If so, when you have edited the settings to say:

MinRequestedY=100000
MaxReadLoops=5

you should not select the option "Average many reads on dark measurements" or does it not matter because the lines in the .ini file always takes precedence?
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post #94 of 985 Old 01-31-2008, 07:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alluringreality View Post

You need to block light to the sensor. I usually press the colorimeter to a black flat surface for the calibration. A 0% screen is expected to measure with some fL value.

Cheers for the reply, but if you have to do this often to maintain accuracy, it becomes quite inconvenient

I guess I also consider that the internal offsets calibration also accounts for temperature differences in the sensor as well as for black level. If you continually measure on a plasma the sensor becomes a lot warmer after a while.
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post #95 of 985 Old 01-31-2008, 08:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WolfyA View Post

if you have to do this often to maintain accuracy, it becomes quite inconvenient

I just use a shoebox lid so that I don't have to move the sensor and it seems to work fine for the calibration.
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post #96 of 985 Old 01-31-2008, 08:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alluringreality View Post

I just use a shoebox lid so that I don't have to move the sensor and it seems to work fine for the calibration.

Ah, good tip. Low tech is often the best way to go. Cheers mate
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post #97 of 985 Old 01-31-2008, 08:42 AM
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Nope. All of the secondaries are off and by a rather large margin. For example, a Cyan reading of x0.220, y0.329, Y0.810 in HCFR gives a dE of 15.8, but the actual value is 4.9, assuming the Luv color space.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Orwellflash View Post

Using YdE, my yellow and cyan dE are not far off of the expected, if at all. Like Mikela, magenta is the one that is way out of bounds. That's one reason why I missed it before, I didn't check all of them. If yellow and cyan dE calculations are off, it doesn't seem to be by much.


Tom Huffman
ChromaPure Software/AccuPel Video Signal Generators
ISF/THX Calibrations
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post #98 of 985 Old 01-31-2008, 09:08 AM
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Hello Wolfy
Quote:
Originally Posted by WolfyA View Post

Am I understanding it correctly that the default values:

MinRequestedY=10
MaxReadLoops=8

are used internally if and only if you have selected the option "Average many reads on dark measurements" under Configure Sensor, i.e. when:

AverageReads=1

are set in the .ini file?

Yes, that's it. If average many reads if off, those values are ignored.
Quote:


If so, when you have edited the settings to say:

MinRequestedY=100000
MaxReadLoops=5

you should not select the option "Average many reads on dark measurements" or does it not matter because the lines in the .ini file always takes precedence?

You must check the checkbox in dialog. The "AverageReads=1" in ini file keeps the last setting, and is retrieved when you create a new measure document. But, if you open a .chc file, the AverageReads flag is stored in the file, and ini file option is ignored. But, the MinRequestedY and MaxReadLoops parameters are internal, they are not saved in chc files (they are kind of general preferences).

Georges
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post #99 of 985 Old 01-31-2008, 09:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alluringreality View Post

I just use a shoebox lid so that I don't have to move the sensor and it seems to work fine for the calibration.

How about calibrating the sensor in the measuring position (on screen) with the TV off in dark room?
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post #100 of 985 Old 01-31-2008, 09:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blutarsky View Post

How about calibrating the sensor in the measuring position (on screen) with the TV off in dark room?

I have a rear projection TV and so for my situation there are issues with doing that. I don't know how other technologies deal with being shut off, but I think the general recommendation with all technologies is to let them run for a while first, so shutting off the display to reset the meter is not a workable solution.
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post #101 of 985 Old 01-31-2008, 10:00 AM
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Ah ok, but how to use the shoebox? Could someone explain?
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post #102 of 985 Old 01-31-2008, 10:05 AM - Thread Starter
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Hello,

Just a quick info, we will release a v2.0.1 by tomorrow...
This version fixes the few glitches raised in posts above (a fix list will be issued)

The build-in "check for update" will allow you to easily get updated version.

--ColorHCFR Team

French speaking home theater HCFR Forum
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post #103 of 985 Old 01-31-2008, 11:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Georges G View Post

Hello Wolfy

Yes, that's it. If average many reads if off, those values are ignored...

Hi Georges,

thanks for the reply and for excellent support
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post #104 of 985 Old 01-31-2008, 11:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blutarsky View Post

Ah ok, but how to use the shoebox? Could someone explain?

I guess it's simply used as a light shield to put between the screen and the sensor. The problem for me is that I'm, like what I read from you in another post, using a support behind the sensor to gently press my Display 2/LT against the screen since I have my TV on a wall mount the attachable "cable" weight isn't an option.

Therefore a shoe box, although a simple solution, would still be a pain to use for me. I think I will simply set the TV to standby for the short time it takes to make the internal offsets calibration.
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post #105 of 985 Old 01-31-2008, 11:40 AM
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The whole point of the calibration step is to block all light to the Display LT. I use scotch tape to keep the meter against the screen, but there's enough play that I can lift the meter up and press it against a stiff surface, and the shoebox top was simply available. So I hold the meter against the surface with one hand (to block light to the meter) and then press the calibrate button on the laptop with the other. On my TV shutting it off for any time makes it have to warm up again (grayscale varies).
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post #106 of 985 Old 01-31-2008, 12:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alluringreality View Post

The whole point of the calibration step is to block all light to the Display LT. I use scotch tape to keep the meter against the screen, but there's enough play that I can lift the meter up and press it against a stiff surface, and the shoebox top was simply available. So I hold the meter against the surface with one hand (to block light to the meter) and then press the calibrate button on the laptop with the other. On my TV shutting it off for any time makes it have to warm up again (grayscale varies).

How often do you have to do this? I've been using the Spyder 2, but the LT is being delivered tomorrow. I also lightly tape my sensor to get a snug fit and could see this getting fairly cumbersome.
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post #107 of 985 Old 01-31-2008, 12:50 PM
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10 minutes seems reasonable. I just noticed that if you go say 30 minutes, the meter will drift.
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post #108 of 985 Old 01-31-2008, 01:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alluringreality View Post

The whole point of the calibration step is to block all light to the Display LT. I use scotch tape to keep the meter against the screen, but there's enough play that I can lift the meter up and press it against a stiff surface, and the shoebox top was simply available. So I hold the meter against the surface with one hand (to block light to the meter) and then press the calibrate button on the laptop with the other. On my TV shutting it off for any time makes it have to warm up again (grayscale varies).

Yes, I will have to make a few measurements to make sure that results doesn't vary because of putting the TV to standby for a couple of seconds.

It all depends on how often one has to make these offsets calibrations for Display 2/LT. Looking at the help file it's set at 1 minute - that would be a major pain for me

PS Just read your last post. 10 minutes is more doable. Will try and figure out a better way to support the sensor so that offsets calibration for absolute black is easier.
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post #109 of 985 Old 01-31-2008, 01:23 PM
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I think it would be cool if the main HCFR window had an "amount of time until recalibration" display.
Roy
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post #110 of 985 Old 01-31-2008, 01:41 PM
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There was a thread in this forum earlier that discussed whether or not the Display2/LT probes were temperature compensated or not and how much they actually drifted.

If I have some time over the next day or so I will try and see how much drift my probe has.

From what I have seen to date I wouldn't say it is very significant, but I've never really tested for it specifically.

Given that my plasma throws out a lot of heat, 61" worth , it's as good a test vehicle as any.
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post #111 of 985 Old 01-31-2008, 01:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rmongiovi View Post

I think it would be cool if the main HCFR window had an "amount of time until recalibration" display.
Roy

Good idea! Something that might be implemented for version 2.x?
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post #112 of 985 Old 01-31-2008, 01:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jvincent View Post

...From what I have seen to date I wouldn't say it is very significant, but I've never really tested for it specifically.

Given that my plasma throws out a lot of heat, 61" worth , it's as good a test vehicle as any.

That would be very interesting, thanks for taking the time to do that, jvincent.
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post #113 of 985 Old 01-31-2008, 02:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jvincent View Post

There was a thread in this forum earlier that discussed whether or not the Display2/LT probes were temperature compensated or not and how much they actually drifted.

If I have some time over the next day or so I will try and see how much drift my probe has.

From what I have seen to date I wouldn't say it is very significant, but I've never really tested for it specifically.

Given that my plasma throws out a lot of heat, 61" worth , it's as good a test vehicle as any.

Already done on our forums in the hardware faq section for each meter type.
http://www.datapopuli.com/forums/viewforum.php?f=23

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post #114 of 985 Old 01-31-2008, 02:45 PM
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derek,

I searched and I didn't find a quantitative measure of how much drift there was. Do you actually have a number?

Also, the original D2 FAQ says that there is no drift: http://www.datapopuli.com/forums/vie...ighlight=drift

But the V3 FAQ says that there is: http://www.datapopuli.com/forums/vie...ighlight=drift
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post #115 of 985 Old 01-31-2008, 02:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jvincent View Post

derek,

I searched and I didn't find a quantitative measure of how much drift there was. Do you actually have a number?

Also, the original D2 FAQ says that there is no drift: http://www.datapopuli.com/forums/vie...ighlight=drift

But the V3 FAQ says that there is: http://www.datapopuli.com/forums/vie...ighlight=drift

For CalMAN V3 we went back and retested all the hardware we support and then updated all the FAQ's. So the more current ones labeled V3 or Pro are correct. The drift has a lot of variables including the starting temperature and the rate of change. So no definitive numbers on the Display2.

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post #116 of 985 Old 01-31-2008, 04:21 PM
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Quote:


Originally Posted by rmongiovi
I think it would be cool if the main HCFR window had an "amount of time until recalibration" display.
Roy

Quote:


Good idea! Something that might be implemented for version 2.x?

Since we are on the topic, I would also like to have a Calibrate Sensor button on either the Measures Toolbar or next to the Configure Sensor button on the main measures window. There are many times that I want to recalibrate the sensor before the time limit set in the configuration, and it would be nice not to have to open the sensor config first to do this. This is purely a lazy man's (me) request, but it doesn't hurt to ask.
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post #117 of 985 Old 01-31-2008, 06:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by derekjsmith View Post

For CalMAN V3 we went back and retested all the hardware we support and then updated all the FAQ's. So the more current ones labeled V3 or Pro are correct. The drift has a lot of variables including the starting temperature and the rate of change. So no definitive numbers on the Display2.

OK thanks. I'm curious as to the amount of drift anyway, so I'll go ahead and do my experiment and post my results.
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post #118 of 985 Old 02-01-2008, 12:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by derekjsmith View Post

Already done on our forums in the hardware faq section for each meter type.
http://www.datapopuli.com/forums/viewforum.php?f=23

That link is login-protected....
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post #119 of 985 Old 02-01-2008, 12:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blutarsky View Post

That link is login-protected....

You need to register to get on to our forums we do this to keep the spammers out. Registration is free.

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post #120 of 985 Old 02-01-2008, 03:37 AM
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What kind of DVD would you use to calibrate a plasma screen with a PS3? Will HCFR DVD V.2 be good? And what standard (PAL\\REC 709) should I set in HCFR?
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