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post #1501 of 2490 Old 11-30-2011, 02:18 PM
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You seriously though MS would test a publishers game for bugs? That process would be overwhelming for them. They probably just test for some known forms of code that cuold be exploited or compromise their security.
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post #1502 of 2490 Old 11-30-2011, 02:27 PM
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Originally Posted by AHDTVDiet View Post

Problem with giving them heavey armor is it makes them a less effective mule. I want mine to where light stuff. So I end up stripping them of all the stuff except one good weapon before each quest. I assume we will pick up armor on the way .

you can do that if you like, but i prefer her to be well armored... she's weak enough as it is, but having epic dragon armor with carry weight ( and 2 hand weapon damage) enchantments helps.... i can also carry over 600 pounds myself, and my normal adventuring gear setup is well under 200 pounds, so I can haul quite a bit back without her... honestly you don't really need money for anything except early on, so I got a bit tired of selling everything off.

I'd like to give her light (dragon) armor, it's just too many dragon scales (with tons of useless bones left over), that and i wanted to look at the heavy and light side by side to compare them... i'll probably give her mine after completing a certain questline that gives good light armor. In hindsight I wish I would have only put perks in heavy armor to get to dragon, because you really don't need to make any armor before dragon, and the only way to make daedric stuff (like the best swords, bows, daggers, etc) is with points in heavy armor... pretty stupid game design in that respect.

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post #1503 of 2490 Old 11-30-2011, 03:31 PM
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Originally Posted by reaper View Post

You seriously though MS would test a publishers game for bugs? That process would be overwhelming for them. They probably just test for some known forms of code that cuold be exploited or compromise their security.

No, not that they test for the bugs themselves, but that they draw the line and won't give permission to release a game/patch until its at a basic level of quality/stability. That's what I've always understood at least. I suppose dragons flying backwards might not exactly be a surface flaw, but I swear the quality control of releases has only been going down in recent years.

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post #1504 of 2490 Old 11-30-2011, 03:40 PM
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No, not that they test for the bugs themselves, but that they draw the line and won't give permission to release a game/patch until its at a basic level of quality/stability. That's what I've always understood at least. I suppose dragons flying backwards might not exactly be a surface flaw, but I swear the quality control of releases has only been going down in recent years.

It's a nice idea, but the reality is that modern games have become so complex (and so numerous) that it's just not possible. And Skyrim is a peculiar example because it's a game with tons of possible behaviors and combinations of behaviors, in a huge environment, with open-ended avenues and actions. Bugs are an inevitable consequence.

Bethesda's games are known for being buggy, but not because they can't help but put out "broken" games. They simply make games that are more complex, more variable, and more open ended than pretty much any other studio.

In other words, we either accept a minimally buggy game, or we get no games like this at all.

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post #1505 of 2490 Old 11-30-2011, 03:42 PM
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Originally Posted by confidenceman View Post

It's a nice idea, but the reality is that modern games have become so complex (and so numerous) that it's just not possible. And Skyrim is a peculiar example because it's a game with tons of possible behaviors and combinations of behaviors, in a huge environment, with open-ended avenues and actions that these bugs are simply an inevitable consequence.

Bethesda's games are known for being buggy, but not because they always put out "broken" games. They simply make games that are more complex, more variable, and more open ended than pretty much any other studio.

In other words, we either accept a minimally buggy game, or we get no games like this at all.

Don't get me wrong...I accept it, even if I don't like it. The texture bug was SO obvious from day zero...how did that get past them? And patches are supposed to make things better, not worse.

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post #1506 of 2490 Old 11-30-2011, 03:43 PM
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How do ya'll decide on companions? I've got Lydia but I can choose the elf archer dude from the first small town and a few different folks in Whiterun. I guess you pick the best compliment in skills of course but was curious what others were doing here. Since I generally like having a tank companion for various reasons Lydia may be my best bet right now.

Mjoll the Lioness is an excellent tank. I keep her in deadric armor. The only problem is that she loves to tell the same five or six stories over and over at the worst times.

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Mjoll: "My father used to take me fishing."

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post #1507 of 2490 Old 11-30-2011, 03:45 PM
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I've had three dragon battles post-1.2 patch, and none of them flew backwards. They were varied as well. One blood dragon, one elder dragon and one standard dragon. Not a hitch fighting any of them. The resistance bug doesn't effect me because I don't have anything that provides resistance, though I can see how that would suck. I've made it to level 41 with no resistance armor to speak of, and the only thing my Breton offers is 25% magic resistance. I think I'll be fine.

The only real issue I've had since the game released is that the d-pad doesn't seem to work at times. I'll press up to bring up my favorites and try to scroll through with the d-pad, but it won't move. I try the analog stick and it's fine, and then the d-pad works once I got back to it. A minor annoyance really, but it would make things a bit easier to navigate if the d-pad would respond all the time instead of 50/50.

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post #1508 of 2490 Old 11-30-2011, 04:32 PM
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Originally Posted by bd2003 View Post

Don't get me wrong...I accept it, even if I don't like it. The texture bug was SO obvious from day zero...how did that get past them? And patches are supposed to make things better, not worse.

What makes you think it did get past them? Wouldn't be surprised if that bug was already known, but they'd established their launch date fairly early. And as we're seeing with the different issues in both the 360 and the PS3 versions, whatever method they're using to stream texture and object data isn't especially reliable (buffering/saving/installing data are causing them all kinds of major problems). So it wouldn't necessarily be an easy fix, especially with a hard-and-fast launch date looming. And as you can tell from the odd things happening post patch, in a game like this, when you screw with one small thing, it can have catastrophic effects on a dozen other things.

I don't know about you all, but I'd hate to be doing QA for these guys. They probably bust their ass harder than any other QA team, but they get blasted for everything that goes wrong (and many things go wrong in a game like this).

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post #1509 of 2490 Old 11-30-2011, 06:04 PM
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Originally Posted by confidenceman View Post

I don't know about you all, but I'd hate to be doing QA for these guys. They probably bust their ass harder than any other QA team, but they get blasted for everything that goes wrong (and many things go wrong in a game like this).

Exactly. A game of this size and scope deserves a bit more leniency than most other titles. I've been fortunate to not come across many bugs, and the ones I have come across have been rather hilarious (fighting a snow bear indoors at close quarters when suddenly, it disappears and reappears on the ceiling. A nod to Eternal Darkness?).

I'm roughly 75 hours in and haven't enjoyed a game quite like this in a long time. Most of the AAA titles released of late have lost my interest quickly. Uncharted 3 was a huge disappointment for me, mainly because of the broken (but now fixed) aiming mechanics. Or perhaps it was because I was anxiously awaiting Skyrim.

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post #1510 of 2490 Old 11-30-2011, 08:04 PM
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Are limitations on disenchanting/enchanting documented somewhere?

I was kinda sad when I finally got a ring that boost mana regeneration by 80% and found that I couldn't replace the 20% version that I'd already learned. Now I got a 40% archery damage increase circlet that when I disenchanted it, the resulting enchantment is only good for 13%, which means if I was to enchant another circlet, a ring, and some greaves I'd get back less value than the original circlet. So I reloaded the save I made and will just keep the 40% circlet.

So, is there a cap on what you can learn based on your current level? Other enchantments were learned at the exact rate of the disenchanted item, and those were when I was at lower levels. I really don't want to HAVE to wait until I finally get to 100 Enchanting to make good archery boosters, but if that will WORK I can try. If there's a hard cap that prevents things like 120% archery boosts across three items, then I'd like to know now. I had to walk into the same shop over and over and over until the inventory randomizer offered that circlet again, since I saw it when I didn't have enough money. Waiting again for a ring of the same magnitude is NOT on the agenda...

I just looked and noticed I haven't used any Enchantment perks. Do things like damage increases get affected more by lack of perks than actual damage does? Due to still getting kicked around I'm trying to focus on my offense but if a few Enchantment perks will build better tools I'm all for it...

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post #1511 of 2490 Old 11-30-2011, 09:44 PM
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Originally Posted by mikepaul View Post

Are limitations on disenchanting/enchanting documented somewhere?

I was kinda sad when I finally got a ring that boost mana regeneration by 80% and found that I couldn't replace the 20% version that I'd already learned.

You just learn the effect when you disenchant an item. The strength of the item is irrelevant. The strength of an enchantment you cast is based on your skill, your perks, and the captured soul used.
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post #1512 of 2490 Old 12-01-2011, 05:08 AM
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Wow, this new 1.2 patch ruined the game. There are no resistences in the game now, even though your stat screen says you have them. To test, conjure a fire creature, cast fireball at it, the thing will die instantly when it should not as it is immune to fire.

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post #1513 of 2490 Old 12-01-2011, 05:21 AM
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Originally Posted by WilliamR View Post

Wow, this new 1.2 patch ruined the game. There are no resistences in the game now, even though your stat screen says you have them. To test, conjure a fire creature, cast fireball at it, the thing will die instantly when it should not as it is immune to fire.

Damn. I did notice how quick and brutal the fights were with other mages last night on both sides. I guess it's the arcane equivalent of a sword duel while naked. Hopefully it's fixed ASAP.

At least the texture bug is fixed, but I might roll back.

Anyways, now that it's all installed to the HDD, loads are improved....but still not great. I still dread entering a shop. Constantly getting dumped to an epic load screen every time you want to go somewhere is just so lame.

What I wouldn't give to put an SSD and about ten times the memory in my 360 just to get rid of this problem for good...

I wish they would at least let you fast travel out of a friendly indoor area. I get orders from some dude in a building and I want to go straight there, not endure extra load screens to get outdoors first. Likewise, any house you own should be an indoor fast travel option, to and fro. They should also have designed the shops like shopping malls so you could go straight from one to the other without having to constantly reload the town. They could have done SO many things to lessen the downtime....sigh.

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post #1514 of 2490 Old 12-01-2011, 05:36 AM
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Originally Posted by WilliamR View Post

Wow, this new 1.2 patch ruined the game. There are no resistences in the game now, even though your stat screen says you have them. To test, conjure a fire creature, cast fireball at it, the thing will die instantly when it should not as it is immune to fire.

This was widely documented in the games press in the wake of the UK release of the patch. Luckily, the patch was released later in the US than in the UK, so we got to learn from the UK's "test run." So to repeat what the press has been saying: if you are fine with the game as it was pre-patch, do not install the patch!

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post #1515 of 2490 Old 12-01-2011, 06:35 AM
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You just learn the effect when you disenchant an item. The strength of the item is irrelevant. The strength of an enchantment you cast is based on your skill, your perks, and the captured soul used.

So will the disenchanting itself of the 40% item go up from 13% as I perk-up, or will I just get 13% but the application of that to an item be increased by the perks? It's not consistent for some items to be learned verbatim and others to get a discount, but I didn't disenchant anything over like 15 fire damage so far...

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post #1516 of 2490 Old 12-01-2011, 06:40 AM
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Originally Posted by WilliamR View Post

Wow, this new 1.2 patch ruined the game. There are no resistences in the game now, even though your stat screen says you have them. To test, conjure a fire creature, cast fireball at it, the thing will die instantly when it should not as it is immune to fire.

Thanks. My foray inside the Black Star went badly and I was going to spend time finding more fire repellant. I'll stick to other tasks until the patch is pulled or another arrives, since I can still beat-down people who don't have magic...

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post #1517 of 2490 Old 12-01-2011, 06:57 AM
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Originally Posted by mikepaul View Post

So will the disenchanting itself of the 40% item go up from 13% as I perk-up, or will I just get 13% but the application of that to an item be increased by the perks? It's not consistent for some items to be learned verbatim and others to get a discount, but I didn't disenchant anything over like 15 fire damage so far...

The power of the effect when you enchant an item is based on your level as an enchanter, your enchanting perks, the quality of the item you are enchanting and the size of the captured soul gem you use.

For example, you may only be able to add 15% reduction to magika used by destruction if you use a silver ring and a common soul. If you use a gold diamond ring and a grand soul you can probably do the same enchant but at 25%.

And I may be off on this but I don't think you can put as powerful of an enchant on a base item as you could on the same item leveled up to legendary quality via smithing.

When you disenchant something, you are only learning the enchant effect. It doens't matter if you disenchant something that has 5% magic regen or 100%...you still only learn the enchant of regenerate magika. The quality of the enchant you do depends on all the stuff I mentioned above.

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post #1518 of 2490 Old 12-01-2011, 07:14 AM
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Had one of THOSE experiences last night. Was out wandering to my next destination and ran into a blood dragon. I don't know why, but I was having a difficult time with this one. Of course I made an ill fated promise to myself. I needed to kill the dragon before I could go to bed. After about 15 attempts to kill it, I was bordering on delirium. On my next attempt, two snow bears came out of the Forrest and began to attack the dragon. Strangely enough, they were doing significant damage to the dragon as well as taking some of the heat from my. I sniped with some firebolts and then when I was out of magika I charged and attacked with my one handed sword. Although my health was getting low and I was out of potions, we finally got him down to his last breaths. My health was in the critical range, but I was so close to finishing him off (and heading off the sleep) that I pressed on and finished him. YES!!! I was ecstatic with a equal measure if relief as I could get to bed. Right after I had that thought, I was killed by the two snow bears, who turned on me after the dragon died. Da@n! Oh well, try again....

(I did end up killing him about 4 turns later)
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post #1519 of 2490 Old 12-01-2011, 07:17 AM
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Originally Posted by mikepaul View Post

So will the disenchanting itself of the 40% item go up from 13% as I perk-up, or will I just get 13% but the application of that to an item be increased by the perks? It's not consistent for some items to be learned verbatim and others to get a discount, but I didn't disenchant anything over like 15 fire damage so far...

It will go up as you increase your perks, your skill level, and the type of soul/soul gem used. You can take your number you get now with a high end soul gem, and multiply it by the perk increase value to get a good idea of where you will sit.
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post #1520 of 2490 Old 12-01-2011, 08:32 AM
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Had one of THOSE experiences last night. Was out wandering to my next destination and ran into a blood dragon.

My first non-scripted dragon fight had a similar end. I found the fight to be quite easy. The dragon was flying around, breathing fire at the ground well away from me, and not even attacking me when it landed. Even better, as I beat on it with my sword, its health dropped rapidly, leading to a quick death. As I reveled in my abilities and soaked up the dragon's soul, the giant that had actually been doing all the work walked through the dragon's corpse, and killed me with a single blow.
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post #1521 of 2490 Old 12-01-2011, 08:38 AM
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I hadn't run into any missing ground problems until today, so PERHAPS this is patch related.

I had gone out to kill another leader of some group. Fast-travel led to another dragon fight, but I had to do it several times because it happened at a fort overrun with bad guys, and once WE killed they dragon they killed ME. The enemy of my enemy is NOT my friend, I guess. So I ended up going Invisible and taking out a few of them with the dagger, and then when the dragon died I absorbed the soul, grabbed the scales and stuff, and ran. So I snuck over to where the leader was, killed her and her followers the same way I kill most low-level folks now, then went to Dragonsreach to claim the bounty.

So I walk out of Dragonsreach into Whiterun to sell some stuff at the Warmaiden, and I see that some ground is missing. Before I walk onto it I took one picture, then another after I had walked out onto the missing area a bit. It's not just invisible ground: I was eventually under the buildings looking up, then managed to walk back up to solid ground. I walked back inside Dragonsreach, then came back and all was back to normal.

http://www.mikepaul.com/Warmaiden1.jpg

http://www.mikepaul.com/Warmaiden2.jpg

I didn't inline the pics here because they are BIG. Don't laugh at the 38" tube HDTV. It's VERY effective sitting right up next to it killing bad guys.

So has anyone else seen missing ground they can walk under? Was it before or after the patch?...

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post #1522 of 2490 Old 12-01-2011, 08:44 AM
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Originally Posted by The Sapient View Post

My first non-scripted dragon fight had a similar end. I found the fight to be quite easy. The dragon was flying around, breathing fire at the ground well away from me, and not even attacking me when it landed. Even better, as I beat on it with my sword, its health dropped rapidly, leading to a quick death. As I reveled in my abilities and soaked up the dragon's soul, the giant that had actually been doing all the work walked through the dragon's corpse, and killed me with a single blow.

I am sorry but this did make me laugh.

My first encounter with a giant made me fly about 100 feet in the air. That guy crushed me like a bug.

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post #1523 of 2490 Old 12-01-2011, 08:47 AM
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Originally Posted by mikepaul View Post

I hadn't run into any missing ground problems until today, so PERHAPS this is patch related.

I had gone out to kill another leader of some group. Fast-travel led to another dragon fight, but I had to do it several times because it happened at a fort overrun with bad guys, and once WE killed they dragon they killed ME. The enemy of my enemy is NOT my friend, I guess. So I ended up going Invisible and taking out a few of them with the dagger, and then when the dragon died I absorbed the soul, grabbed the scales and stuff, and ran. So I snuck over to where the leader was, killed her and her followers the same way I kill most low-level folks now, then went to Dragonsreach to claim the bounty.

So I walk out of Dragonsreach into Whiterun to sell some stuff at the Warmaiden, and I see that some ground is missing. Before I walk onto it I took one picture, then another after I had walked out onto the missing area a bit. It's not just invisible ground: I was eventually under the buildings looking up, then managed to walk back up to solid ground. I walked back inside Dragonsreach, then came back and all was back to normal.

http://www.mikepaul.com/Warmaiden1.jpg

http://www.mikepaul.com/Warmaiden2.jpg

I didn't inline the pics here because they are BIG. Don't laugh at the 38" tube HDTV. It's VERY effective sitting right up next to it killing bad guys.

So has anyone else seen missing ground they can walk under? Was it before or after the patch?...

I've seen it happen in a dungeon. Never in a town.

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post #1524 of 2490 Old 12-01-2011, 09:14 AM
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Originally Posted by mikepaul View Post

I hadn't run into any missing ground problems until today, so PERHAPS this is patch related.

I had gone out to kill another leader of some group. Fast-travel led to another dragon fight, but I had to do it several times because it happened at a fort overrun with bad guys, and once WE killed they dragon they killed ME. The enemy of my enemy is NOT my friend, I guess. So I ended up going Invisible and taking out a few of them with the dagger, and then when the dragon died I absorbed the soul, grabbed the scales and stuff, and ran. So I snuck over to where the leader was, killed her and her followers the same way I kill most low-level folks now, then went to Dragonsreach to claim the bounty.

So I walk out of Dragonsreach into Whiterun to sell some stuff at the Warmaiden, and I see that some ground is missing. Before I walk onto it I took one picture, then another after I had walked out onto the missing area a bit. It's not just invisible ground: I was eventually under the buildings looking up, then managed to walk back up to solid ground. I walked back inside Dragonsreach, then came back and all was back to normal.

http://www.mikepaul.com/Warmaiden1.jpg

http://www.mikepaul.com/Warmaiden2.jpg

I didn't inline the pics here because they are BIG. Don't laugh at the 38" tube HDTV. It's VERY effective sitting right up next to it killing bad guys.

So has anyone else seen missing ground they can walk under? Was it before or after the patch?...

I had a missing wall, that I could look through and see the underside of the world on the last dungeon of the main mage quest. I have not yet patched my game.
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post #1525 of 2490 Old 12-01-2011, 09:34 AM
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I haven't taken the patch yet as I wanted to avoid the resistance issue, but last night I had my first missing wall. It was a wall next to the bed in one of the Breezehome rooms. It was very odd and I could walk through a section that was previously closed.

Question for the masses. In my home I have the place all decked out by the Jarl's buddy who sold me the improvements. I bought them all. I noticed since then I can stick books in the bookshelf, put ingredients in the apothecary bag, and put 2 (only 2!) weapons on the weapon rack. Is there any nifty way to store food and other items? I just end up shoving all other weapons, armor and MISC items in chests and put all food in the cupboard for now.

And my new favorite thing to do - snipe people with arrows thanks to the perk that zooms in when you push block. I did a minor cave mission (get Armen (sp) his family sword) and I didn't have to physically hit anyone or use any spells until the final baddie. I cleared the entire inside all remotely via sneaked 2x attack arrow snipes to the head. And it was glorious.

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post #1526 of 2490 Old 12-01-2011, 09:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JudgeSmails View Post

IAnd my new favorite thing to do - snipe people with arrows thanks to the perk that zooms in when you push block. I did a minor cave mission (get Armen (sp) his family sword) and I didn't have to physically hit anyone or use any spells until the final baddie. I cleared the entire inside all remotely via sneaked 2x attack arrow snipes to the head. And it was glorious.

I did that for almost 10 lvls then it got a bit too slow for me. So I level up on my one-hand/armor/block now mostly just run & gun. Having a frosty friend and Lydia helps too.
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post #1527 of 2490 Old 12-01-2011, 09:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JudgeSmails View Post

I haven't taken the patch yet as I wanted to avoid the resistance issue, but last night I had my first missing wall. It was a wall next to the bed in one of the Breezehome rooms. It was very odd and I could walk through a section that was previously closed.

Question for the masses. In my home I have the place all decked out by the Jarl's buddy who sold me the improvements. I bought them all. I noticed since then I can stick books in the bookshelf, put ingredients in the apothecary bag, and put 2 (only 2!) weapons on the weapon rack. Is there any nifty way to store food and other items? I just end up shoving all other weapons, armor and MISC items in chests and put all food in the cupboard for now.

And my new favorite thing to do - snipe people with arrows thanks to the perk that zooms in when you push block. I did a minor cave mission (get Armen (sp) his family sword) and I didn't have to physically hit anyone or use any spells until the final baddie. I cleared the entire inside all remotely via sneaked 2x attack arrow snipes to the head. And it was glorious.

Just wait until you get the sneak perk that boosts your arrows when sneaking too. 3x damage for sneak attacks gives me instant kills on most cave-based creatures right now.
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post #1528 of 2490 Old 12-01-2011, 09:52 AM
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Patch related fun:
After installing the patch last night I was up in the College where I had previously killed some dragons. Bones used to be laying around but now I have random dancing dragon skeletons when I walk through the courtyard.
Definitely not "alive" creatures, but trying to move like dragons and not getting very far off the ground.
It would make for a funny video if I had an option other than iphone capture of the TV screen.
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post #1529 of 2490 Old 12-01-2011, 11:08 AM
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fallout and oblivion were notoriously buggy on both consoles, and i got in the habit of saving every 5 or 10 minutes, because you never knew when the next freeze-requiring-reboot would occur. i still do that, which is why i'm on save # 500-ish. i should get a paranoia achievement.

beyond a couple of freezes that have occurred, i had one weird bug in the snowy mountains outside Windhelm. i wanted to test out my new bow with a soul trap enchantment on it, and an ice troll attacked as i was walking up a pass in the mountains. as soon as he died and the soul captured, the game would crash/freeze. i repeated this 2 times. after that, i killed him without soul trapping, and there were no further problems. guess i just hit an unlucky spot where the combination of blowing snow effects and soul capture were too much for the game to deal with.

after about 80 hours, i'm level 32, and i've had Lydia as my companion for most of those 80 hours. we used to have a good relationship, aside from her 'woe is me for carrying your s***' routine. but lately, she's been really getting in the way. she regularly gets between me and whatever we're fighting, and i like to stay at range and use the bow, which ends up with my expensive glass arrows sticking out of her back (or, more likely, killing her).

i tried telling the headstrong dimwit to 'wait here', but she followed me into a room and started some crap with the local bandits anyway. i backtracked in a cave to a spot FAR from where i was going to fight, stuck her in a room, told her to 'wait here', and closed the door. went back to fight this group of baddies, and who should pop their butt up right in the middle of the fight? Lydia.

i started fantasizing about leaving her corpse in the snow somewhere, but then i'd have to make 3 trips back and forth from my house to get all the stuff off of her that she (begrudgingly) carried for me.

yesterday...another option presented itself...

Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
Spoiler  
Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
i got the quest for Boethiah's Calling. you lead a companion to her altar, get them to touch it, then kill them with the sacrificial knife. Take THAT Lydia!


i've had so much fun playing this game. there's so much i haven't even seen or done yet. by the time i finish everything, the first DLC should be out.

Chimpuat

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post #1530 of 2490 Old 12-01-2011, 11:33 AM
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I keep experiencing the other patch issue. Dragons in they sky now routinely fly BACKWARDS. Happens 40 - 50% of the time.

Nice work Bethesda, way to test the patch out. Now way no one saw this or didn't realize the resistence bug. It happens constantly.

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