HDMI question: RGB vs YCC 709? - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 7 Old 04-14-2009, 03:43 PM - Thread Starter
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Ok, so the 360 has video options for RGB and YCC 709. I'm pretty sure I don't need to be using the Ycc 602, right? and RGB full-range crushes blacks...so that's out.

Anyway, switching between RGB and Ycc709 I can see some minor differences. In Ycc mode, the colors seem a bit smoother(more gradations?), less saturated, and I actually have to drop the red saturation in my TVs color decoder by one notch. Blue and green saturation and all 3 color's hues are the same as when on RGB.

When I switch to RGB, the colors look a bit more saturated, a bit "chunkier"(less gradations?), and I have to bring my red saturation back up one notch for it to be accurate.

So what does this mean? I mean it's weird that Ycc looks less saturated, yet I have to LOWER the red saturation to bring the color decoder in line...

Can anybody tell me which mode is actually more accurate? Which is the proper one to be using? I don't want to just choose by eye, otherwise I wouldn't even bother calibrating at all.

If my TV was meant for RGB, would it even accept the Ycc signal?

This is on an HDMI-equipped Toshiba HD CRT RPTV.

Sony XBR960n - nice to rods, mean to cones.
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post #2 of 7 Old 04-15-2009, 08:27 AM
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I've been trying to get an straight answer to this myself. M$ support says to contact your HDTV manufacturer. Samsung (my tv) says to contact M$. Samsung did say that settings that don't "flicker" on the 360 game startup screen are the correct ones, less conversion is better... 709 is HD Video, 602 SD Video, RGB computer graphics. 709 should have reference level on normal, RGB on expanded... I use 709. Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.
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post #3 of 7 Old 04-15-2009, 09:06 AM
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Your TV probably just doesn't do a 100% accurate conversion of YCC to RGB. That's pretty common, actually.

RGB would technically be more accurate, though with a proper conversion YCC should be basically indistinguishable. YCC also has the advantage of always using video levels, so there's no reference level confusion as you often get with RGB.
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post #4 of 7 Old 04-15-2009, 09:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by signmastr View Post

I've been trying to get an straight answer to this myself. M$ support says to contact your HDTV manufacturer. Samsung (my tv) says to contact M$. Samsung did say that settings that don't "flicker" on the 360 game startup screen are the correct ones, less conversion is better... 709 is HD Video, 602 SD Video, RGB computer graphics. 709 should have reference level on normal, RGB on expanded... I use 709. Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.

RGB shouldn't necessarily be set to expanded. It depends on the TV.
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post #5 of 7 Old 04-15-2009, 10:38 AM
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Great thread. I too have a crt rptv and the whole "reference level" part of the 360 confuses me along with he hdmi color selections.

If anyone can post a link to a comprehensive outline of what all the options mean it would be much appreciated. I have tried them all. My tv excepts them all. But none are "consistantly" better then the other. Some things look better then other others depending on the settings. Or if Im watching movies or playing games.


Im confused as to what I SHOULD be using ?
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post #6 of 7 Old 04-15-2009, 06:55 PM - Thread Starter
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So, Chris,

You're saying that the TV always converts it to RGB? After much testing and switching back and forth, it is clear that the Ycc mode offers much smoother colors. Is this happening artificially somehow?

Either way, I've decided to stick to Ycc.

Sony XBR960n - nice to rods, mean to cones.
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post #7 of 7 Old 04-15-2009, 10:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fugiot View Post

So, Chris,

You're saying that the TV always converts it to RGB? After much testing and switching back and forth, it is clear that the Ycc mode offers much smoother colors. Is this happening artificially somehow?

Either way, I've decided to stick to Ycc.

A TV must convert all signal types to RGB before they can display an image. If you prefer YCC, use that.
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