MW2: no center channel - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 82 Old 11-10-2009, 10:26 PM - Thread Starter
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So I have a Denon 2309. Works fine, has been calibrated since I got it, blah blah. I noticed when I dropped in MW2 though that there is literally NO sound coming from the center channel - not faint or quiet levels, NO sound. At first I thought it was a hardware issue, but I put Borderlands in and it has stuff in the center and things pan smoothly around the sound stage when appropriate (like spinning in place). Same with pretty much any other game.

This is a 360 Elite hooked up via HDMI - the 2309 is showing a 5.1 DD signal coming in and 5.1 going out to the speakers. The 360 is set to output digital audio in DD format... the only thing I can think of is that I read somewhere that MW2 is actually only 4.1 This doesn't seem right and I can't get any verification of that anywhere else, but it seems odd if all other games and movies and stuff on the 360 are sending center channel audio just fine. Should I try the component output? I'd have to dig that cable out from god knows where...
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post #2 of 82 Old 11-10-2009, 10:39 PM
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Getting audio out of the center here, mostly just voices (not really hearing any sound effect pans across the front 3 that involve the center).

*Connected via HDMI & Optical... both have center audio (but it is minimal)

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post #3 of 82 Old 11-10-2009, 10:41 PM - Thread Starter
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Hmmm, I'm going to have to pay more attention to the dialog. For some reason I feel like it's split between the l+r for a phantom center effect (which I find annoying). Even the menu clicks aren't coming out the center - if it's on purpose, it's an odd audio engineering choice.
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post #4 of 82 Old 11-11-2009, 07:42 AM
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How many MW2 threads do we need? Are the mods sleeping?

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post #5 of 82 Old 11-11-2009, 07:52 AM - Thread Starter
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I didn't know we had to integrate every single MW2 discussion into one thread. That seems a bit extreme.
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post #6 of 82 Old 11-11-2009, 01:25 PM
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I have the same issue, 5.1 DD showing up on my Onkyo, but the center channel is silent. I am connected through optical on a PS3.
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post #7 of 82 Old 11-12-2009, 12:46 AM
 
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I wouldn't be surprised if the game audio is rendered as 4.0, with 5.1 only being used during cut-scenes. Keeping track of less channels requires less resources, and sacrifices need to be made when you are aiming for a constant 60fps. The same reasoning can be applied as to why the game is still only 600p.
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post #8 of 82 Old 11-12-2009, 06:25 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by darklordjames View Post

I wouldn't be surprised if the game audio is rendered as 4.0, with 5.1 only being used during cut-scenes. Keeping track of less channels requires less resources, and sacrifices need to be made when you are aiming for a constant 60fps. The same reasoning can be applied as to why the game is still only 600p.

In other words, FAIL.
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post #9 of 82 Old 11-12-2009, 07:02 AM
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I second the fail!
I thought Microsoft mandated all games had to be 5.1

Through I've haven't got around to MW2 yet, I think this is going to be reall wierd on my setup with alot off distance between my left and right fronts. (Projector)
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post #10 of 82 Old 11-12-2009, 07:58 AM
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Didn't most receivers have a function called 'dialog enhancement' or something similar to extract audio from L and R and send to the center?
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post #11 of 82 Old 11-12-2009, 09:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Foxbat121 View Post

Didn't most receivers have a function called 'dialog enhancement' or something similar to extract audio from L and R and send to the center?

Some do but it's not the same...the point we are making is that it is a major FAIL to have a hyped up action game like this not be true 5.1...although it is still a fun game, finding this out made it feel half-assed and cheap...
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post #12 of 82 Old 11-12-2009, 09:54 AM
 
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We still also don't have confirmation that the source audio isn't compressed. the lack of a center channel and from what I'm hearing lead me to believe that's a resounding no.
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post #13 of 82 Old 11-12-2009, 10:18 AM
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I put my ear up to the center last night during the first mission. Something is coming out but not much at all. Vocals came from LR, it seemed, making the Phantom Center. Pretty sure there is LFE but will check the sub tonight.

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post #14 of 82 Old 11-12-2009, 11:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TyrantII View Post

We still also don't have confirmation that the source audio isn't compressed.

What do you mean by that?

DD 5.1 compression is done at the console hardware level before it goes out. XBox 360 is incapable of sending out uncompressed multi-channel LPCM .

Game audios are dynamically generated.
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post #15 of 82 Old 11-12-2009, 11:58 AM
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I remember Halo 2 was the same way, no center channel. Can't remember if Halo 3 was like that.
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post #16 of 82 Old 11-12-2009, 12:42 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Foxbat121 View Post

What do you mean by that?

DD 5.1 compression is done at the console hardware level before it goes out. XBox 360 is incapable of sending out uncompressed multi-channel LPCM .

Game audios are dynamically generated.

Correct, but there's also the problem that audio sources could have been compressed and down sampled to get them to where the Dev wanted it. In the case of the 360, that means the audio was fooled with twice.

In the case of the PS3, it be sending an uncompressed multi-channel LPCM data stream of audio that's compressed.

Both cases there should be notice gains from letting the hardware deal with it rather then preprocessing it.
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post #17 of 82 Old 11-12-2009, 02:01 PM
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These are gaming audio we're talking about, right? I could care less how they are compressed or not compressed as long as they sound right.

It's not some super duper movie sound track that was originally recorded in hi-res. I doubt most game audio effects are actually recorded in high quality to begin with. On top of that the game engine has to mix different sound effects, apply environmental effects and then output them. These audio effects have been messed with many many times before you hear them on your speakers. I doubt you can tell any difference.
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post #18 of 82 Old 11-12-2009, 02:03 PM
 
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"We still also don't have confirmation that the source audio isn't compressed."

A developer that does not compress their source audio files is too stupid to make a game that anybody would want to play. By extension, anybody that thinks that uncompressed source audio files is a good thing suffers from defective reasoning centers.

"In other words, FAIL."

Not really. 60fps is a big part of why COD4 multiplayer is still ungodly popular two years later. As we all know, the multiplay is the only reason to own the Modern Warfare games.
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post #19 of 82 Old 11-12-2009, 02:52 PM
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I thought I read something awhile back that this game was mixed like most movies. That is, the only thing the center channel is used for is dialog. The reasoning behind this is that very, very few people have identical speakers across the front, so panning effects and music across the center channel is problematic. Maybe I was reading about a different game, though.

Come to think of it, I think I might be thinking of Uncharted 2. It seems like it was a game that had a selection in the options for large or small center channel, and people were improperly setting the center channel to large.

Regardless, I'm not sure I really understand the problem. The point of a center channel speaker in general is to anchor the dialog so you don't have combing effects when sitting off center. It's not there for effects or music. It sounds like IW may have mixed the dialog onto the fronts, but I've read some conflicting reports on that.
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post #20 of 82 Old 11-12-2009, 03:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OARevolution View Post

I remember Halo 2 was the same way, no center channel. Can't remember if Halo 3 was like that.

I recall people complaining about Halo 3's audio. I think it was mainly weak weapon fire from the center channel.

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post #21 of 82 Old 11-12-2009, 03:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ferrisg View Post

I thought I read something awhile back that this game was mixed like most movies. That is, the only thing the center channel is used for is dialog. The reasoning behind this is that very, very few people have identical speakers across the front, so panning effects and music across the center channel is problematic. Maybe I was reading about a different game, though.

Come to think of it, I think I might be thinking of Uncharted 2. It seems like it was a game that had a selection in the options for large or small center channel, and people were improperly setting the center channel to large.

Regardless, I'm not sure I really understand the problem. The point of a center channel speaker in general is to anchor the dialog so you don't have combing effects when sitting off center. It's not there for effects or music. It sounds like IW may have mixed the dialog onto the fronts, but I've read some conflicting reports on that.

For my setup at least, NO dialogue comes out of the center channel...the only thing that comes out of it is some occasional background audio...
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post #22 of 82 Old 11-12-2009, 03:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pdawg17 View Post

For my setup at least, NO dialogue comes out of the center channel...the only thing that comes out of it is some occasional background audio...

In that case, it sounds like they did the mix this way for some other reason, or just messed up.
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post #23 of 82 Old 11-12-2009, 04:07 PM
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Yeah I also hear no dialogue out of the center speaker. It is usually totally silent. I have got up close and listened a few times but don't hear anything. I swear in the first training level I heard a little noise but that was it.
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post #24 of 82 Old 11-12-2009, 04:18 PM
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I think it has to do how these games are designed for/on/originated: PC. Most ppl play PC games with 2.1 speakers. Occasionally, there are some early 4.1 setups. Hence, most of the game engines are designed to handle 2-ch or 4-ch audio streams. Not a big deal as most receivers can re-process these 4.1 audio into 7.1 easily.
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post #25 of 82 Old 11-12-2009, 04:41 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Foxbat121 View Post

I think it has to do how these games are designed for/on/originated: PC. Most ppl play PC games with 2.1 speakers. Occasionally, there are some early 4.1 setups. Hence, most of the game engines are designed to handle 2-ch or 4-ch audio streams. Not a big deal as most receivers can re-process these 4.1 audio into 7.1 easily.

That's nonsense. Most PC games supper 7.1 sound now a days, and many uncompressed audio if your rig can handle it.

I wonder if the PC version is showing the same issues...
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post #26 of 82 Old 11-12-2009, 08:33 PM
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Ugh. I thought I was alone in hearing this oddity. What a weird thing for them to do. I thought the surrounds sounded a lot higher than the mains but it could just be this reason.
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post #27 of 82 Old 11-12-2009, 09:58 PM
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Same here no center. I have 360 via optical. I think it's 4.1 because it had a lot of bass during explosion.
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post #28 of 82 Old 11-12-2009, 11:13 PM
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There is center audio (vocals) but it is very minimal and not very loud, if you put your ear right against your center and listen it is there. Something does sound wrong with this mix however and hopefully they can patch/fix it.

* There is LFE so it is 5.1 but something is indeed wrong with the center mix.

Jason
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post #29 of 82 Old 11-13-2009, 06:08 AM
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I'll have to double check this. I assumed that I was hearing audio from the center speaker when I was facing the person the was talking to me.
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post #30 of 82 Old 11-13-2009, 09:53 AM
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I have the 360 version of the game and only at the beginning of the game when Infinity Wards logo comes up can I hear anything from the center channel. I find this to be very cheap on Infinity Ward part if this cant be fixed. I have contacted their customer support and waiting to hear from them.
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