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post #1 of 36 Old 04-28-2010, 08:05 AM - Thread Starter
 
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I hope this thread doesn't get closed too! Has anybody hear anything about this? Supposedly all the designers where supposed to be paid royalties for MW2 which Activision refused to pay claiming some BS. Now all the main people who made the COD brand games are leaving to form their own studio under EA. Now I think this is awesome because they will be able to have more control over the games they make which will only make them better for us.

"We're excited," added Jason West, President of Respawn Entertainment. "Now that the team is in control of the games and brands, we can ensure that the fans are treated as well as they deserve."

This is awesome my only concern is EA's awful servers.
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post #2 of 36 Old 04-28-2010, 08:08 AM
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Originally Posted by Outlaw269 View Post

I hope this thread doesn't get closed too! Has anybody hear anything about this? Supposedly all the designers where supposed to be paid royalties for MW2 which Activision refused to pay claiming some BS. Now all the main people who made the COD brand games are leaving to form their own studio under EA. Now I think this is awesome because they will be able to have more control over the games they make which will only make them better for us.

"We're excited," added Jason West, President of Respawn Entertainment. "Now that the team is in control of the games and brands, we can ensure that the fans are treated as well as they deserve."

This is awesome my only concern is EA's awful servers.

Old news. This has been discussed quite a bit in the (I know this will be a shock) MW2 thread.

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post #3 of 36 Old 04-28-2010, 08:11 AM
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Not all of us in make daily trips to the MW2 thread to find out about its staff however.

Welcome news for me. thanks for the update
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post #4 of 36 Old 04-28-2010, 08:15 AM
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Not all of us in make daily trips to the MW2 thread

your loss

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post #5 of 36 Old 04-28-2010, 08:22 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Im honestly just more shocked that Activision refused to pay with all the money they made on the game and the potential of the people who made it. Whats 20 mil when your selling those numbers?
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post #6 of 36 Old 04-28-2010, 08:52 AM
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In a way im glad they didnt get paid huge royalties.. I felt very let down by IW. COD4, arguably the best shooter ever, recieved one map in 2+ years on the market and MW2 has too many flaws to name.

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post #7 of 36 Old 04-28-2010, 09:05 AM
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you're happy someone didn't get paid because you didn't like the game?
sheesh. that's not exactly nice. did the game really impact your life that significantly to wish that someone doesn't get due compensation for their work?
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post #8 of 36 Old 04-28-2010, 09:41 AM - Thread Starter
 
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The reason that they have only come out with a few maps is exactly this reason. They have been fighting over the money...
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post #9 of 36 Old 04-28-2010, 09:52 AM
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Welcome to the forum Outlaw... in before lock I hope.

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Originally Posted by jammybastard View Post

you're happy someone didn't get paid because you didn't like the game?
sheesh. that's not exactly nice. did the game really impact your life that significantly to wish that someone doesn't get due compensation for their work?

Why reward such elite developers for their steaming pile of stuff called MW2, that any hack and dash developer could have squeezed out of their back side. I as most others were duped into buying the next evolution of the MW2 series not the trendy, Halo happy, glitching, J6P, run of the mill shooter we ended up with.

COD4 only had one map pack cause honestly it didn't need the help to stand on its own. It was a bummer but we still played the hell out of it...

D anything to add...

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post #10 of 36 Old 04-28-2010, 10:08 AM
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I wish MW2 never came out so we were all still playing COD4.

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post #11 of 36 Old 04-28-2010, 10:11 AM
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Originally Posted by mrlittlejeans View Post

I wish MW2 never came out so we were all still playing COD4.

what's stopping us

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post #12 of 36 Old 04-28-2010, 10:14 AM
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Originally Posted by mrlittlejeans View Post

I wish MW2 never came out so we were all still playing COD4.

easy solution:

put down controller
get off couch
swap disks
enjoy pure shooter goodness
use MW2 as a drink coaster or trade for Wii fit or something more valuable. Mine might go in for Alan Wake today...

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post #13 of 36 Old 04-28-2010, 10:26 AM
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I loved MW2. Granted I don't play online due to the amount of lag and glitchs but I've racked up a ton of couch time play split screen or SP both of which are a blast.
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post #14 of 36 Old 04-28-2010, 10:33 AM
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Originally Posted by beach scrub View Post

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Originally Posted by Daekwan View Post

In a way im glad they didnt get paid huge royalties.. I felt very let down by IW. COD4, arguably the best shooter ever, recieved one map in 2+ years on the market and MW2 has too many flaws to name.

Why reward such elite developers for their steaming pile of stuff called MW2, that any hack and dash developer could have squeezed out of their back side. I as most others were duped into buying the next evolution of the MW2 series not the trendy, Halo happy, glitching, J6P, run of the mill shooter we ended up with.

Because they made it? Whether it's "good" or not is irrelivent, it's a product that you as a consumer had the choice to purchase or not, and as the old idiom says "let the buyer beware."

That's like saying that your workplace had an "off" year so you don't deserve a salary. Damn, I bought a new Honda that I don't like as much as my old Honda, I should not have to pay Honda for their car because I don't like it as much...

I'll be the first to agree with Daekwan, the game certainly doesn't live up to the amazingness of the first game, that's not to say that I don't enjoy it.

If you don't like it you've had plenty of opportunities to unload it by now.

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post #15 of 36 Old 04-28-2010, 10:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jammybastard View Post

you're happy someone didn't get paid because you didn't like the game?
sheesh. that's not exactly nice. did the game really impact your life that significantly to wish that someone doesn't get due compensation for their work?

Its not about being nice, its about getting paid for the quality of youre work. Would you pay your mechanic if he did an unsatisifactory job? What about your dentist? your lawyer? Anybody who provides a service.

You may not choose to think that way because disc that contains the game is a physical product that you can buy off a store shelf, but a developer is in many ways providing a service because his product is pure software. And yes, I have found that software to be unsastisfactory.

As I stated before COD4 was given only one map pack in over 2 years of availability. MW2 has been ridden with glitches and cheats that took forever to get right. And I still feel like there are obvious tweaks that should be made to the game. (ie.. you should not be able to win an OBJ based gametypes on kills alone). Lastly there was no beta/demo for MW2, so I like many others, I was unable to sample the game before buying it. It was blind purchase that was un-returnable.

In all reality, IW employees are owed what they were promised in a written contract. If thats not happening then they need to consult legal help instead of leaving the company in droves. The same way I feel let down by spending $60+ on their recent work, is the same way they feel let down by not getting paid extra incentives by Activision.

I (speaking as the consumer) do still retain the ultimate ability to vote upon the quality of their work with my wallet. And personally, I will not be buying their products blindly in the future (as I did with MW2).

FWIW I feel the exact same way about Rockstar Games. I havent touched any of their products since GTA4. And will not be buying Red Revolver or whatever its called until I can play it first.

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post #16 of 36 Old 04-28-2010, 10:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kabob983 View Post

Because they made it? Whether it's "good" or not is irrelivent, it's a product that you as a consumer had the choice to purchase or not, and as the old idiom says "let the buyer beware."

That's like saying that your workplace had an "off" year so you don't deserve a salary. Damn, I bought a new Honda that I don't like as much as my old Honda, I should not have to pay Honda for their car because I don't like it as much...

I'll be the first to agree with Daekwan, the game certainly doesn't live up to the amazingness of the first game, that's not to say that I don't enjoy it.

If you don't like it you've had plenty of opportunities to unload it by now.

A decent chunk of my salary depends on performance bonuses for the quality of work I have done. That performance criteria also directly impacts the merit increase I recieve for next calander year.

I understand what you are saying, that because millions of people bought the game.. that IW should be paid millions for developing it. And IF it was written that way in their contract with Activision, then thats only fair.

But keep in mind there may have been other stipulations and quality levels to have been met for IW staff to recieve all possible compensation. Many pro athelete contracts are written that way. Playing for the team isnt just good enough. You also need to perform at a certain level.

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post #17 of 36 Old 04-28-2010, 11:18 AM
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Originally Posted by Daekwan View Post

A decent chunk of my salary depends on performance bonuses for the quality of work I have done. That performance criteria also directly impacts the merit increase I recieve for next calander year.

I understand what you are saying, that because millions of people bought the game.. that IW should be paid millions for developing it. And IF it was written that way in their contract with Activision, then thats only fair.

But keep in mind there may have been other stipulations and quality levels to have been met for IW staff to recieve all possible compensation. Many pro athelete contracts are written that way. Playing for the team isnt just good enough. You also need to perform at a certain level.

Common sense would dictate that having "quality level" requisites in contracts make no sense for type of business they're in.

Like other entertainment venues, the bonuses are based off sales. In this case, IW deserves to be paid out.

Let's say hypothetically that IW was dumb enough to accept quality metrics in their bonus contracts. Going by an average, you get 94 on Metacritic. What would their contract state? They'd have to get 95 on Metacritic? 94 is a tremendous score. If Activision defense against Quality is random forum posters complaining about the game, let's just say, they'll be laughed out of court.

Anyway, neither angle holds any water. I do no see activision winning this. Also, take into consideration that these contracts are under California laws which are very pro employee.
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post #18 of 36 Old 04-28-2010, 11:36 AM
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For the BC2 fans, I thought this was interesting

Quote:


Eurogamer: I guess you guys have had a little bit of free time over the past month, have you been playing any games?

Jason West: I was playing Bad Company 2 when I thought up the name, Respawn Entertainment. [Laughter.]

full interview

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post #19 of 36 Old 04-28-2010, 11:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kabob983 View Post

Because they made it? Whether it's "good" or not is irrelivent, it's a product that you as a consumer had the choice to purchase or not, and as the old idiom says "let the buyer beware."

That's like saying that your workplace had an "off" year so you don't deserve a salary. Damn, I bought a new Honda that I don't like as much as my old Honda, I should not have to pay Honda for their car because I don't like it as much...

I'll be the first to agree with Daekwan, the game certainly doesn't live up to the amazingness of the first game, that's not to say that I don't enjoy it.

If you don't like it you've had plenty of opportunities to unload it by now.

Not following there.

Unlike your Honda story I gave my money and am not refusing to pay for it cause I don't like it. I'm saying they left the best part of the game on the table for what ever reason. Their squabbles with Activision gimped our product. Perhaps the compensation withheld is truly the breach of good faith in their contract due to the problems with the game. Point is many are not happy with the game. I can't be the only person thinking or saying that. If I had a better recourse than losing over half of what I invested in the game I would have "unloaded" it long ago.

Furthermore some companies have "off years" and layoff, cutback, or fire people due to bottom line. Comapnies can't survive by being nice guys and paying salaries with substandard or no product.

So I don't see how your stories apply here.

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post #20 of 36 Old 04-28-2010, 11:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Daekwan View Post

Its not about being nice, its about getting paid for the quality of youre work. Would you pay your mechanic if he did an unsatisifactory job? What about your dentist? your lawyer? Anybody who provides a service.

You may not choose to think that way because disc that contains the game is a physical product that you can buy off a store shelf, but a developer is in many ways providing a service because his product is pure software. And yes, I have found that software to be unsastisfactory.

As I stated before COD4 was given only one map pack in over 2 years of availability. MW2 has been ridden with glitches and cheats that took forever to get right. And I still feel like there are obvious tweaks that should be made to the game. (ie.. you should not be able to win an OBJ based gametypes on kills alone). Lastly there was no beta/demo for MW2, so I like many others, I was unable to sample the game before buying it. It was blind purchase that was un-returnable.

I (speaking as the consumer) do still retain the ultimate ability to vote upon the quality of their work with my wallet. And personally, I will not be buying their products blindly in the future (as I did with MW2).


Unfortunatly, your idea doesn't work here. This isn't a personal service, it's a group service if you want to think of it that way.

On a personal level, you did receive a working product. You put the game in, it works in its entirety. It does not crash, break, or lack functionality. The glitching and everything else has been done by 3rd party outsiders, who maliciously attempt to alter the way things are. Consider these people vandals in the case of a car situation. Would you go back at BMW if someone else cut your brake lines? No.

MW2 is not a broken product either. While you may be dissatisfied with your experience, as a group and as a whole, MW2 is still the most played game on Xbox Live. It has not failed to deliver on any promise, and there has been no breach of "contract" in any way shape or form. Just because I thought that "Operation Flashpoint" was a crappy game does not mean that it failed to deliver on the promises set forth by the release. Same thing with a car - it still does it's job of getting you to point A to B, but just because you don't enjoy the speaker system doesn't mean its a broken product.

If you are concenred with purchasing a product sight unseen, then you should consider renting before you buy. It's like a test drive for games.

As far as I know of, there is no other product in the world that you can "sample" other than video game demos. I may just be having a mental block, but I don't know of anything else that you can just sample (outside of 30 day trial periods on some types of products) for a period of time. If you don't like what your broker did with your money, you can't just have him give you back what you gave him to start.

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post #21 of 36 Old 04-28-2010, 12:00 PM
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Originally Posted by marlin29311 View Post

Unfortunatly, your idea doesn't work here. This isn't a personal service, it's a group service if you want to think of it that way.

On a personal level, you did receive a working product. You put the game in, it works in its entirety. It does not crash, break, or lack functionality. The glitching and everything else has been done by 3rd party outsiders, who maliciously attempt to alter the way things are. Consider these people vandals in the case of a car situation. Would you go back at BMW if someone else cut your brake lines? No.

MW2 is not a broken product either. While you may be dissatisfied with your experience, as a group and as a whole, MW2 is still the most played game on Xbox Live. It has not failed to deliver on any promise, and there has been no breach of "contract" in any way shape or form. Just because I thought that "Operation Flashpoint" was a crappy game does not mean that it failed to deliver on the promises set forth by the release. Same thing with a car - it still does it's job of getting you to point A to B, but just because you don't enjoy the speaker system doesn't mean its a broken product.

If you are concenred with purchasing a product sight unseen, then you should consider renting before you buy. It's like a test drive for games.

As far as I know of, there is no other product in the world that you can "sample" other than video game demos. I may just be having a mental block, but I don't know of anything else that you can just sample (outside of 30 day trial periods on some types of products) for a period of time. If you don't like what your broker did with your money, you can't just have him give you back what you gave him to start.


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post #22 of 36 Old 04-28-2010, 12:14 PM
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I don't know how you could side with either side on this issue.

Activision wants the company to keep churning out MW until it dies.

Infinity Ward wants to get paid even more (when they have some of the best salaries in the industry) and is being wooed by others such as EA.

there's more than enough greed to go around.

let them figure out their own mess. just play the games!
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post #23 of 36 Old 04-28-2010, 12:16 PM
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There's a link in the MW2 thread stating Activision is shutting IW down after the 2nd map pack is released.

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post #24 of 36 Old 04-28-2010, 12:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by marlin29311 View Post

Unfortunatly, your idea doesn't work here. This isn't a personal service, it's a group service if you want to think of it that way.

On a personal level, you did receive a working product. You put the game in, it works in its entirety. It does not crash, break, or lack functionality. The glitching and everything else has been done by 3rd party outsiders, who maliciously attempt to alter the way things are. Consider these people vandals in the case of a car situation. Would you go back at BMW if someone else cut your brake lines? No.

MW2 is not a broken product either. While you may be dissatisfied with your experience, as a group and as a whole, MW2 is still the most played game on Xbox Live. It has not failed to deliver on any promise, and there has been no breach of "contract" in any way shape or form. Just because I thought that "Operation Flashpoint" was a crappy game does not mean that it failed to deliver on the promises set forth by the release. Same thing with a car - it still does it's job of getting you to point A to B, but just because you don't enjoy the speaker system doesn't mean its a broken product.

If you are concenred with purchasing a product sight unseen, then you should consider renting before you buy. It's like a test drive for games.

As far as I know of, there is no other product in the world that you can "sample" other than video game demos. I may just be having a mental block, but I don't know of anything else that you can just sample (outside of 30 day trial periods on some types of products) for a period of time. If you don't like what your broker did with your money, you can't just have him give you back what you gave him to start.

None of us here know what was in IW's contract with Activision because none of us have seen it. All we know is that IW employees are claiming they are owed more money from Activision.. but Activision isnt paying them more. And of course employees are leaving by the truckload. Lawyers have been brought in by disgruntled employees to help counter-sue for termination and for the rights to the COD franchise name.. *edit* and lost/owed wages. So I guess one way or another we will all find out what was the performance measurement and why Activision feel they didnt have to pay IW.

FWIW plenty of products come with 30 day trials or demos. Cars come with test drives. And most reputable department stores as a whole sell products that are returnable 'if not completely satsified'. Sam's Club and Costco go a step further, providing lifetime satisfaction guarantees in some instances items they sell, its the best in the business. Okay thats a lie.. I know for a fact if you buy something from Nordstrom you can return it if not satsified and recieve cash back. Even if you paid with a credit card.. or lost your reciept.

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post #25 of 36 Old 04-28-2010, 12:29 PM - Thread Starter
 
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I wish i could quote everyone in here when I say yes it didn't live up to COD4 granted. However they had a deal based on pure sales number, not how people liked the game but about how many were sold. Being that the game sold over 550 million dollars the people who made it should have been compensated. That was the deal and thats why they are leaving. Even though MW2 wasn't all that it was cracked up to be the same people made all of the other COD games and i think they did a pretty decent job. I think they had every right to leave and Im looking forward to any of their games even if i hate EA.
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post #26 of 36 Old 04-28-2010, 12:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Daekwan View Post

A decent chunk of my salary depends on performance bonuses for the quality of work I have done. That performance criteria also directly impacts the merit increase I recieve for next calander year.

Very true, but in their case if I had to guess I'd say their bonuses would revolve more around how many units were sold than "did everyone like it." In that respect they definitely met their goal.

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post #27 of 36 Old 04-28-2010, 12:34 PM - Thread Starter
 
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I wish i could quote everyone in here when I say yes it didn't live up to COD4 granted. However they had a deal based on pure sales number, not how people liked the game but about how many were sold. Being that the game sold over 550 million dollars the people who made it should have been compensated. That was the deal and thats why they are leaving. Even though MW2 wasn't all that it was cracked up to be the same people made all of the other COD games and i think they did a pretty decent job. I think they had every right to leave and Im looking forward to any of their games even if i hate EA.

And obviously some people liked it enough to stick around for the "stimulus package" update...

"Even more impressive, publisher Activision notes, are the 2.5 million copies that have been downloaded in the map pack's first week of availability. That's only a small chunk of the 14 million people who have purchased a copy of Modern Warfare 2 since its November release."
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post #28 of 36 Old 04-28-2010, 12:36 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Yes not everyone liked the game but the point is you still shelled out $65 to add it to the stack of games you don't play anymore.....
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post #29 of 36 Old 04-28-2010, 12:36 PM
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FWIW plenty of products come with 30 day trials. Cars come with test drives. And many organizations as a whole sell products that are returnable 'if not completely satsified'. Ever hear of these mom & pop shop called Sam's Club or Costco? There 100% satisfaction guarantee on everything they sell is the best in the business. Okay thats a lie.. I know for a fact if you buy something from Nordstrom you can return it if not satsified and recieve cash back. Even if you paid with a credit card.. or lost your reciept.

Agreed but lets compare it to something similar: other media. Can you buy a CD or a DVD, take it home, listen/watch it and decide it's not up to your expectations, and return it?

Well, I suppose at Costco you might be able to (although you can probably return MW2 there as well)...

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Originally Posted by Outlaw269 View Post

I wish i could quote everyone in here when I say yes it didn't live up to COD4 granted. However they had a deal based on pure sales number, not how people liked the game but about how many were sold. Being that the game sold over 550 million dollars the people who made it should have been compensated. That was the deal and thats why they are leaving. Even though MW2 wasn't all that it was cracked up to be the same people made all of the other COD games and i think they did a pretty decent job. I think they had every right to leave and Im looking forward to any of their games even if i hate EA.

My thought exactly. By pure sales #'s they blew everyone's expectation out of the water.

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post #30 of 36 Old 04-28-2010, 12:44 PM
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Agreed but lets compare it to something similar: other media. Can you buy a CD or a DVD, take it home, listen/watch it and decide it's not up to your expectations, and return it?

Well, I suppose at Costco you might be able to (although you can probably return MW2 there as well)...

My thought exactly. By pure sales #'s they blew everyone's expectation out of the water.

Thats the thing with software.. its not returnable. You pay up front and well you get what you get lol. Atleast with hardware you usually have a window where you can return it for full refund.

I dont think MW2 is horrible or even unsatisfactory enough to return. I'll probably keep it forever, I've kept much worse games. But it has definitely changed my view of IW's products.. and as I said earlier I will not be blindly trying their products in the future. I'll need a beta/demo/rental to make that decision.

By pure sales numbers they crushed everything. Im sure MW2 broke every sales record possible. But how do we know as people on the sidelines exactly what bonuses are due to sales. It could have been a cut and dry 1time check for the game, and then a later check for each map pack. Theres a huge grey area here of unknown material.

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