Microsoft Xbox 360 Kinect Official Thread - Page 19 - AVS Forum
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post #541 of 1759 Old 11-04-2010, 12:57 PM
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Originally Posted by jblank74 View Post

Exactly! Which is why this is a waste of resources for Microsoft. Most 360 gamers are more hardcore and the hardcore crowd is who spends the bucks. Put that money into dedicated servers, increased Live performance, anything, other than another motion product, which the market hardly needs or is clammoring for.

I don't see this thing being that successful and considering it hasn't sold out at launch means there aren't a lot of people dying to buy one.

Xbox already has the hardcore gamers. They are already spending most of their effort on producing games like Halo:Reach and Fable and GOW is around the corner.

What they want is the Wii buyers. Wii has demonstrated that there are FAR MORE casual gamers than hard core gamers. Xbox would like a piece of that pie, which is why they developed Kinect.

If you only care about hardcore gaming, Kinect is not for you. You should not bother. I am not even sure when hardcore gaming will come to Kinect, if ever.

And MS just upped their guidance from 3 million units sold during this holiday season to 5 million. I think the launch is going quite well.
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post #542 of 1759 Old 11-04-2010, 12:57 PM
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Originally Posted by jblank74 View Post

Exactly! Which is why this is a waste of resources for Microsoft. Most 360 gamers are more hardcore and the hardcore crowd is who spends the bucks. Put that money into dedicated servers, increased Live performance, anything, other than another motion product, which the market hardly needs or is clammoring for.

Absolutely not a waste of money for them! XBOX already has it's market of gamers, they want masses and masses more. The only way to do that is to appeal to the casual gamer (Kids, Moms, Weirdos who game in thier living rooms with Wii party games in their underwear, etc). It's about expanding the XBOX to wider markets and making more money off it. That is entirely the point of Kinect

XBOX Live gaming is fine without dedicated servers, and live performs well considering the number of people who use it. It can be better. But improving live isn't going to boost 360 or game sales.


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post #543 of 1759 Old 11-04-2010, 12:59 PM
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Originally Posted by aaronwt View Post

That is rather confusing. At least even if the power supply is needed, it's still $10 less than getting them separately.

But at least we know why it's $50 less than when purchased separately. although how mcuh does the power supply cost MS? That must be where they are making their profit.

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Originally Posted by gameboy View Post

It would be silly to include something that over 90% of the people who are buying will never use...

@gameboy - OK, so if we use that logic, why are they selling the Kinect itself as a "bundle"??

Remember, 4 - 5 months ago they started selling "Kinect Ready" consoles. Those folks don't need the power supply either - but if we go by your statement, those folks are being forced to pay for something they don't need (apparently $40 - $50 more!) when they buy a Kinect.

So if that's the case, why not sell the Kinect and the power supply separately. That would have solved the problem from the get-go.

Bottom line, MS screwed the folks that purchased the bundles. Otherwise they could have just sent us out the power supply upon request - rather than charging $40 for it.

Advertising that we were saving $50 is dishonest at best.
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post #544 of 1759 Old 11-04-2010, 12:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jblank74 View Post

Exactly! Which is why this is a waste of resources for Microsoft. Most 360 gamers are more hardcore and the hardcore crowd is who spends the bucks. Put that money into dedicated servers, increased Live performance, anything, other than another motion product, which the market hardly needs or is clammoring for.

I don't see this thing being that successful and considering it hasn't sold out at launch means there aren't a lot of people dying to buy one.

You're focusing far too much on where this is now, rather than where this will be in a couple years. I'm not buying it now, I'm waiting for a few cycles to see what the developers are able to do. But I think it's pretty clear that all the companies (MS, Sony, Nintendo) feel like this is where the future of gaming is, so why would MS sit on the sidelines and watch the competition disappear over the horizion?

Personally, my opinion is that this will really take off when the next generation of consoles come out.

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post #545 of 1759 Old 11-04-2010, 01:00 PM
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Originally Posted by coyote_5 View Post

Pretty bad analogy.

People pay that much for remotes that integrate the operation of a handful or more electronic devices into one cohesive easy to use remote. Not to say "Play" instead of "push A"

Correction. People pay that much for a remote to control devices exactly how they want it. What's to say some people would rather control with their voice or gesture instead of pushing a button?
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post #546 of 1759 Old 11-04-2010, 01:03 PM
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Originally Posted by Marc_In_FL View Post

@gameboy - OK, so if we use that logic, why are they selling the Kinect itself as a "bundle"??

Remember, 4 - 5 months ago they started selling "Kinect Ready" consoles. Those folks don't need the power supply either - but if we go by your statement, those folks are being forced to pay for something they don't need (apparently $40 - $50 more!) when they buy a Kinect.

So if that's the case, why not sell the Kinect and the power supply separately. That would have solved the problem from the get-go.

Because MS expects a majority of future Xbox purchasers to buy Kinect. Which means everything related to Kinect gets integrated into the base design.

People who have the power supply problem are a very very small group of people. It is true that this is an AV board and there are a lot of people with projectors, but this is not the norm.
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post #547 of 1759 Old 11-04-2010, 01:03 PM
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Originally Posted by gameboy View Post

Correction. People pay that much for a remote to control devices exactly how they want it. What's to say some people would rather control with their voice or gesture instead of pushing a button?

For $150? That's akin to buying a McLaren F1 when the only place you drive is to the post office. You can save the money and get there the same way, if not easier.

Look, if this thing was $100, it would be a no brainer, seriously, and I might even buy one for my 360, but for $150, for the little it does, and the games it has? Sorry.

I've already told my son though, he better play the heck out of this thing, lol. I don't wanna go down the Wii road again, where it gets played for a week and then the novelty wears off.

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post #548 of 1759 Old 11-04-2010, 01:07 PM
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blank, that is how the kids are. They lose interest over stuff after awhile. Kinect is nice just because there is still an Xbox 360 for hard core gaming. I suspect that your son will lose interest with many of the Kinect titles after a few weeks, but there will be new games to interest him by then...
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post #549 of 1759 Old 11-04-2010, 01:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gameboy View Post

Correction. People pay that much for a remote to control devices exactly how they want it. What's to say some people would rather control with their voice or gesture instead of pushing a button?

I'm sure they would. Let me know when the Kinect is able to control anything but the Kinect hub. It can't even turn on the Xbox right now. It's not combining the functions of multiple remotes or multiple devices. It's allowing you to pretend your in Minority Report, except with a lot slower response time - i.e. you have to hold the cursor over the selection for 4 seconds to choose it etc...

Listen, I'm not bashing the Kinect. I'm intrigued. But I'm just not an early adopter unless the tech is really mind-blowing. For me, it sounds like there are enough limitations that I'm going to hang on to that $150 until additional functionality is added.

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post #550 of 1759 Old 11-04-2010, 01:13 PM
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http://www.engadget.com/2010/11/04/k...ox-360-review/

Watch the boxing around 6:00, this is the exact problem I had with Wii sports, flailing around actually works. The Now Gamer review of Kinect sports says similar things about all the individual events.

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post #551 of 1759 Old 11-04-2010, 01:15 PM
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There seems to be a lot of questions about Kinect placement, so let me post this here:

Most suitable placement for Kinect:

• For a single player, ideally you want 6 feet (4ft works though)
• If you have two players, you want a bit more (8ft)
• If you want to control your Xbox from the couch while watching movies/tv, you don't want to be further than 11 ft

Vertically, you want to locate Kinect as low as you can (above a foot). 1 to 3 feet works best and you don't want to place it above 6 feet.

For those of you with sectionals, I would angle Kinect slightly so that it is facing towards the open side of your sectional. That is what I do and it works just fine. It is also okay to place it on the side of a TV, just remember to face Kinect as much as possible when you play.
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post #552 of 1759 Old 11-04-2010, 01:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coyote_5 View Post

I'm sure they would. Let me know when the Kinect is able to control anything but the Kinect hub. It can't even turn on the Xbox right now. It's not combining the functions of multiple remotes or multiple devices. It's allowing you to pretend your in Minority Report, except with a lot slower response time - i.e. you have to hold the cursor over the selection for 4 seconds to choose it etc...

Listen, I'm not bashing the Kinect. I'm intrigued. But I'm just not an early adopter unless the tech is really mind-blowing. For me, it sounds like there are enough limitations that I'm going to hang on to that $150 until additional functionality is added.

the 4 second delay is to allow you to indicate intent of manipulating that control. It isn't a hardware of software 'problem', or 'lag'.

And there's a way to get around the power on / power off thing - Just don't turn it off


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post #553 of 1759 Old 11-04-2010, 01:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jblank74 View Post

Exactly! Which is why this is a waste of resources for Microsoft. Most 360 gamers are more hardcore and the hardcore crowd is who spends the bucks. Put that money into dedicated servers, increased Live performance, anything, other than another motion product, which the market hardly needs or is clammoring for.

I don't see this thing being that successful and considering it hasn't sold out at launch means there aren't a lot of people dying to buy one.

MS expects to sell 5 million Kinects by then end of 2010. If they do sell that many, I would say they put their resources in the right place.

Microsoft expects 5 million Kinects sold in 2010

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......."The demand for Kinect for Xbox 360 is exceeding expectations," a Microsoft spokesperson wrote in an e-mail. "So we're increasing our forecast from 3 million sensors sold this holiday to 5 million. That's bigger than any launch in Xbox history."....


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post #554 of 1759 Old 11-04-2010, 01:18 PM
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Originally Posted by CollinViegas View Post

Anyone with a 65" tv plan on mounting the kinect unit on top of it? The mount from PDP state it only works with tv's up to 60".

I would love to hear some options.

I have my tv on a stand and setting it up under my tv blocks the IR receiver, so I am looking for a solution.

I tried in front of my TV (65VT25) since the PS3 eye is on top....however as you stated, it blocks the IR. Now I have it sitting on top of the $12 PS3 Eye mount, that seems to work pretty well.
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post #555 of 1759 Old 11-04-2010, 01:20 PM
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You can't use Kinect to power the XBOX on for obvious reasons - the device isnt powered on until the 360 is (likely due to its power source coming from the 360, at least in the 'slim' variants).

Turning it off via voice isn't so obvious but I can foresee a feature when guys are killing off eachother in Halo: Reach and the female of the house casually walks in and says XBOX Turn Off. World War III could ensue. Think of the lack of ability to turn it off via voice as a feature, not a limitation


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post #556 of 1759 Old 11-04-2010, 01:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gameboy View Post

Because MS expects a majority of future Xbox purchasers to buy Kinect. Which means everything related to Kinect gets integrated into the base design.

People who have the power supply problem are a very very small group of people. It is true that this is an AV board and there are a lot of people with projectors, but this is not the norm.


And I get that... But the responsible, customer friendly, thing for MS to do would have been to verify the bundle purchase and the ownership of another console, and then just ship the power supply out to the customer.

I'm paying the $40 and I couldn't even get them to overnight it.

HOWEVER - apparently enough people must be making noise, because now official word is that the Kinect power supply has been added to the MS Store and should start showing up there tomorrow!

It's in a post by "Mister Blint" about halfway down this page: http://forums.xbox.com/34873920/ShowPost.aspx

Quote:


We have added the Y-Cable and power supply as an additional accessory you can purchase via the Microsoft store, it should appear there tomorrow. Again, I would like to stress that this is NOT needed if you have a New Xbox 360 (Slim).

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post #557 of 1759 Old 11-04-2010, 01:28 PM
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Originally Posted by darthjames View Post

Non gaming reasons to buy a Kinect

1) Voice Commands for tasks that normally would require a controller or remote (Movies, Nav the UI, etc)
2) Motion commands to navigate your movies/ui/etc
3) Video Kinect functionality with XBOX Friends, Messenger friends, work (using Office Communicator/whatever it's called nowadays)
4) Get rid of that stupid headphone to do chat with online games

Which online games are you referring to??

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post #558 of 1759 Old 11-04-2010, 01:29 PM
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Was at a fairly busy Best Buy at lunch and there were plenty of Kinect units available. Nobody even grabbed them while I was there. Good luck on selling 5 million units.

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post #559 of 1759 Old 11-04-2010, 01:29 PM
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I bought kinect during the midnight launch and was very happy until I got home. I hooked it up and everything went fine until I sat on my couch and tried to control kinect with my hand. My upper body would disappear. So I had you move forward in order for kinect to see me. I thought I could sit on my couch and relax and be able to control the Xbox with ease. That did not happened so I returned it without playing any of the games. I will pick up black ops next week and will enjoy that.
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post #560 of 1759 Old 11-04-2010, 01:36 PM
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Originally Posted by kblee View Post

Which online games are you referring to??

The microphone works with Party chat, just like the headset/microphone does.


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post #561 of 1759 Old 11-04-2010, 01:43 PM
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Originally Posted by darthjames View Post

The microphone works with Party chat, just like the headset/microphone does.

I thought they announced that it will only work in games designed for Kinect. It's not like anyone is gonna be using it to play Black Ops.

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post #562 of 1759 Old 11-04-2010, 01:45 PM
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Originally Posted by kblee View Post

I thought they announced that it will only work in games designed for Kinect. It's not like anyone is gonna be using it to play Black Ops.

Nope. Unless they've changed it from the Beta. You can turn it off too


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post #563 of 1759 Old 11-04-2010, 01:49 PM
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Originally Posted by kblee View Post

I thought they announced that it will only work in games designed for Kinect. It's not like anyone is gonna be using it to play Black Ops.

I used it to chat with people on Halo Reach quite a bit. Then I turned it off and muted everyone...


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post #564 of 1759 Old 11-04-2010, 01:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ballen420 View Post

Ha. I'd hate to break that to him.

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Originally Posted by darthjames View Post

slight modification - it only works after you turn the 360 on. you can do voice commands or hand gestures to bring up the kinect hub.

HAHA!! The auto on/off would've made sense to add....before some idiot friend or family member (nagging wife/gf/etc.) says, "XBox...OFF!!!" When you are add a boss battle or something and you haven't saved your progress. HAHA!!
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post #565 of 1759 Old 11-04-2010, 01:56 PM
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Originally Posted by darthjames View Post

the 4 second delay is to allow you to indicate intent of manipulating that control. It isn't a hardware of software 'problem', or 'lag'.

And there's a way to get around the power on / power off thing - Just don't turn it off

I understand the purpose and I didn't say it was lag or a hardware/software problem. I just don't see a 4 second wait to select an option as a plus. *shrug*

For me it turns the hand motion menu control into a novelty that would soon wear off as I grew tired of that delay every time I selected a menu option. JMO.

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post #566 of 1759 Old 11-04-2010, 02:05 PM
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Originally Posted by onlysublime View Post

http://kotaku.com/5680932/examining-...-report-effect

the voice cancellation is doing a very nice job with the kinect. kotaku shows how loud he was playing last.fm and the kinect heard and understood his commands even though he was speaking at a normal level.

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Degraded experience? Speech Recognition is an area I'd say the device has worked flawlessly, even with my positioning.

My center channel is a Klipsch C3 - its fairly big, beefy and loud. And I've had no problems pausing /skipping videos even with audio coming out of the channel. It works quite nicely.

I'm going to try putting it on top of my TV once I get a mount to see if anything works 'better', but Its totally working where it's at now.

Don't get me wrong, I _love_ that it's working for you and working well. I'm on the Kinect Audio team, and we've put a lot of work into speech and chat. If you _do_ at some point have issues though, the first place I'd look would be the sensor positioning.

How big is the space you're using? And do you have audio treatments on the walls?
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post #567 of 1759 Old 11-04-2010, 02:09 PM
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Originally Posted by bkilian View Post

Don't get me wrong, I _love_ that it's working for you and working well. I'm on the Kinect Audio team, and we've put a lot of work into speech and chat. If you _do_ at some point have issues though, the first place I'd look would be the sensor positioning.

How big is the space you're using? And do you have audio treatments on the walls?

Nope, nothing special about the room. I am going to try mounting the device above the TV once I can find/buy a mount but that is primarily to avoid having to 'angle' remotes due to where the sensor is placed right now, not due to any technical problems I've encountered.


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post #568 of 1759 Old 11-04-2010, 02:11 PM
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Originally Posted by jblank74 View Post

Perfectly said. My youngest son wants those cruddy games though, that's fine, but this thing is an overpriced rip-off and I frankly wish all this motion crap would fade into oblivion. I will never like it or prefer it to a controller.

so tell your son he'll get nothing and like it. I don't have any interest in it either but I don't see the point in trying to change other people's opinions on it. If they like it, they like it.

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post #569 of 1759 Old 11-04-2010, 02:25 PM
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jblank do you own a Kinect? You have been bashing it like you owned it.

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post #570 of 1759 Old 11-04-2010, 02:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tgable View Post

http://www.engadget.com/2010/11/04/k...ox-360-review/

Watch the boxing around 6:00, this is the exact problem I had with Wii sports, flailing around actually works. The Now Gamer review of Kinect sports says similar things about all the individual events.

the way he did it only works in single player and on easy mode. on easy mode, the computer doesn't put up a fight
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