HDMi color space source vs rgb? - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 7 Old 09-09-2010, 10:25 PM - Thread Starter
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does anyone know what the source option for the HDMI colors pspace setting does on the xbox? Im pretty sure auto will try autodetecting your TV, but im debating between either using RGB, or source. RGB looks pretty good, but it seems theres a tiny bit of input delay. I'll have to play with source and some other options and see what it does, but im not really clear on what the source option will do.

Hell im not even sure what games output to by default, i hear theres no real standard for that. I was thinking of setting it to 709 and the tv to 709 manually, but i hear thats more for movie standards.

note: i have the 360 on its own separate input so i can set it to whatever would be the best for games. I actually tried doing reference lvl expanded and setting my tv to RGB FULL mode but the blacks wound up looking kinda grayish. After searching around it seems that the 360's expanded mode doesn't properly map the levels to 0-255. I guess this is supported by the fact taht they even included an 'intermediate' setting. So right now im just using standard reference level and have my TV on regular RGB auto/limited mode. I also have color matrix set to auto (instead of forcing 709), and x.v. color space set to normal since the 360 doesn't support that. The tv is a Sony KDS60a3000
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post #2 of 7 Old 09-09-2010, 10:47 PM
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I would only use RGB if using a pc monitor. As for the mapping of 0-255. I heard setting it to Source is best. That way the tv is handling it all. Apparently under Auto the 360 is not mapping properly. VGA maps correctly though. Turning off display discovery really helps. That could also be another reason why it will map correctly. But you gotta match every thing up properly and make sure the tv supports the settings. If not. You will be making the picture worse.
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post #3 of 7 Old 09-09-2010, 11:06 PM - Thread Starter
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i do have display discovery off. And i think your mixing up the refrence level and color space options. Those are 2 different things.

my refrence level is standard because it seems expanded doesn't map properly from what ive read (and seen messing with the settings, things look a bit grey)

color space setting is the one im asking about. Auto is what i do not want because i believe that just trys to autodetect your tv. Im trying to figure out what the source setting does, and if i should use that, or RGB. Hopefully someone can shed some light on that?

Im not familiar with the RGB color space output option, and if thats what games usually use by default or what
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post #4 of 7 Old 09-10-2010, 01:22 AM
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Think I got you? I should have just been more clear about it. Example my settings from a recent thread of mine.

Samsung 32 inch lcd tv
720p
HDMI black level tv: Normal
HDMI black level 360: Expanded
HDMI Color Space: Source
Display Discovery disabled

Auto the 360 is handling things. With source. From what I heard and gather. Putting it on source the tv does the work. Assuming you have all settings matched up properly. I will tell you this. Every since the NXE update. My tv has acted differently with these settings. Here are my older settings.

720p
HDMI black level tv: Low
HDMI black level 360: Standard
HDMI Color Space: Auto
Display Discovery Enabled

Even with DD set to disabled. The colors and black level would be horrible. Complete washed out gray mess. And I know about black crush if you use low for hdmi black level on tv and expanded with 360. In turn mismatching the signals. My tv is always looking for expanded now with the 360 like a pc monitor for gaming since the NXE update. And it switches fine to the other source when watching a video and what not. Because hdmi black level on tv gets grayed out. When it goes back to the games. Its enabled again and you can flip between low or normal. I still would only use RGB with a pc monitor.



Quote:
Originally Posted by kenshin-dono View Post

i do have display discovery off. And i think your mixing up the refrence level and color space options. Those are 2 different things.

my refrence level is standard because it seems expanded doesn't map properly from what ive read (and seen messing with the settings, things look a bit grey)

color space setting is the one im asking about. Auto is what i do not want because i believe that just trys to autodetect your tv. Im trying to figure out what the source setting does, and if i should use that, or RGB. Hopefully someone can shed some light on that?

Im not familiar with the RGB color space output option, and if thats what games usually use by default or what

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post #5 of 7 Old 09-12-2010, 04:27 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KoRn View Post

Think I got you? I should have just been more clear
Auto the 360 is handling things. With source. From what I heard and gather. Putting it on source the tv does the work.

thats counter to what i have read. I had thought Auto would just auto detect your tv and source would let the 360 output the color space according to the game.

This is what i really would need to know, because ideally id want the 360 to do the work, not the TV. Does anyone know which way it works? Or have they been able to test it accurately? Maybe i'll just set it to the 709 setting, but i thought games were inately coded in RGB.

as far as your settings go. From what i've read xbox on expanded doesn't seem to map the 0-255 right. The mere fact that they even included an 'intermediate' setting seems to support this theory. Is your t'vs hdmi black lvl low = 16-235, and normal = 0-255? for my tv the options are RGB limited (16-235) and RGB Full (0-255) It does not auto switch properly though so i have to set it manually. This input is separate so i COULD set it to RGB full and xbox to expanded, but when i did the black level didnt quite look right. I couldn't calibrate it properly since the greyscale image i used that goes down to 0 had the 0 cut off, and i couldn't see if it was properly black. I guess the 360 doesn't let you zoom an image out like the ps3 does. this is the image i was using for greyscale btw
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...=#post18984982
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post #6 of 7 Old 09-15-2010, 12:51 AM - Thread Starter
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doesn't anyone know what auto and source do? Maybe someoen with a reciever or tv that says what color space its recieving or something? I tried emailing microsoft about this but have got 2 replies back that look like they didn't even read my letter. First they talked about the friggin screen format option, then they talked about the refrence levels. it looked like a cut and past of the xbox FAQ >_< im trying a 3rd time to find out but i doubt i'll get anywhere

this is absurd. Youd think something so simple would be explained somewhere
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post #7 of 7 Old 09-15-2010, 07:20 AM
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I've actually been trying to figure out the same thing for my projector setup (Epson 1080UB). So far I have both the 360 and pj on expanded, and the xbox settings to CMY instead of RGB. It seemed to handle blacks and whites better than RGB. It no longer crushes blacks, and whites are not washed out. Though it does feel like the color is a little off.
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