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post #361 of 10486 Old 05-25-2011, 12:40 PM
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All bets are off when Diablo 3 hits... LOL!!!!! Now all we need is CW to show up - can you say prestige race? HA!

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GC rage race for COD4!

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post #362 of 10486 Old 05-25-2011, 12:42 PM
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welcome back sir!

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post #363 of 10486 Old 05-25-2011, 12:45 PM - Thread Starter
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welcome back all of you

my money is on the CW....

" CW IS IN IT TO WIN IT!!! " -Randy Jackson
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post #364 of 10486 Old 05-25-2011, 12:45 PM
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I honestly have noticed zero problems with hit detection on a decent connection. It's no different than MW2. I bet it's the exact same code line by line.

Are you going by the killcams or something?

Well, that might explain it-- I have an exceptional connection which often earns me host and all the "advantages" that come along with that dubious honor...

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post #365 of 10486 Old 05-25-2011, 12:47 PM
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TY

All I can say about this thread so far is... Y u Mad bros?

You will buy it.
You will play it.
You will bitch about it.
You will continue to play it.

Oh wait.. That's just me.

Hope to see you online soon.

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post #366 of 10486 Old 05-25-2011, 12:49 PM - Thread Starter
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we know the campaign is gonna be ok (if you follow that kind of thing)

the multiplayer is a big "who knows", due to it being 50/50 job from both IW and that other studio.

you know whats keeping me up at night though? IW's "beach head". its like their hidden "ace in the hole". hope for more info on that
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post #367 of 10486 Old 05-25-2011, 12:53 PM
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Well, that might explain it-- I have an exceptional connection which often earns me host and all the "advantages" that come along with that dubious honor...

Whether you're host or not the hit detection is still client-side so that shouldn't matter.

It doesn't register as a hit and pop up the little X on the screen until the server confirms it, which is where the disconnect tends to be for most people. That and the killcams which are wildly innaccurate (for a good reason).

I still don't see any difference between any of the CoD games since CoD1. I put the sight on an enemy, I fire, it hits. It's IMO the best netcode ever to grace an FPS since CS added client side hit detection.

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post #368 of 10486 Old 05-25-2011, 12:56 PM
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welcome back all of you

my money is on the CW....

" CW IS IN IT TO WIN IT!!! " -Randy Jackson

welcome back. It's like an OG reunion 'round here

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post #369 of 10486 Old 05-25-2011, 01:44 PM
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Originally Posted by bd2003 View Post

Whether you're host or not the hit detection is still client-side so that shouldn't matter.

It doesn't register as a hit and pop up the little X on the screen until the server confirms it, which is where the disconnect tends to be for most people. That and the killcams which are wildly innaccurate (for a good reason).

I still don't see any difference between any of the CoD games since CoD1. I put the sight on an enemy, I fire, it hits. It's IMO the best netcode ever to grace an FPS since CS added client side hit detection.

I popped in MW2 the other day for the first time since BLOPS dropped and I felt like the hit detection was noticeably more consistent in MW2 than BLOPS. I also had no lag issues, which I do see in BLOPS from time to time.

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post #370 of 10486 Old 05-25-2011, 02:03 PM
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Are you sure you're not just experiencing a side effect of the generally less accurate weapons in BO (and WaW)? It is indeed easier to hit people in MW1/2, but the weapons are vastly more accurate with far less recoil.

Remember theres always a slight disconnect with when you actually hit and when the hit registers...add a lot of recoil to the mix and it can feel a little janky even on a good connection.

I have serious doubts treyarch has done anything to the netcode itself.

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post #371 of 10486 Old 05-25-2011, 02:15 PM
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I think BLOPS has less recoil actually. put on that silencer and it's like a friggin laser beam coming out of your gun!

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post #372 of 10486 Old 05-25-2011, 02:49 PM
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Originally Posted by bd2003 View Post


Whether you're host or not the hit detection is still client-side so that shouldn't matter.

It doesn't register as a hit and pop up the little X on the screen until the server confirms it, which is where the disconnect tends to be for most people. That and the killcams which are wildly innaccurate (for a good reason).

I still don't see any difference between any of the CoD games since CoD1. I put the sight on an enemy, I fire, it hits. It's IMO the best netcode ever to grace an FPS since CS added client side hit detection.

... I must be playing a different game.

I'll accept that greater recoil combined with no stopping power does make it a more laborious affair to down an opponent-- However, I won't accept that mw2 and Blops are in the same realm for lag or hit detection or whatever it is you want to call it. There are several oddities with Blops that I have not experienced (or, at least, not nearly to the extent seen in Blops) in the modern warfare series:

1) The around-the-corner shot (see "Wanted")-- you're opponent kills you AFTER you have already ducked behind a wall which is not penetrable. This also happens to me in reverse: I frequently kill players who are out of my field of view.

2) The "WTF!?" kill cam-- I understand that the kill cam is not an accurate appraisal of events as they happen on screen... But why is it that the kill cams in Blops vary so wildly from what you are witnessing on screen? Why is it that this is NOT an issue in the MW series? I've seen kill cams where my opponent hit everything BUT me and yet I still die! (This has not once happened in almost a month of mw2 play time. I now notice that the many Blops players instinctively wiggle their aim and this seems to actually help in kills!) In reverse, I've emptied whole clips into opponents-- scoring hit markers-- only to be rewarded a death and a kill cam which presents my opponents view point and (apparently) I didn't hit him once!

3) The "blop shot"-- you drop an opponent into "second chance" and he still manages to kill you with his primary weapon.

4) The freeze frame death-- you're strolling along pleasantly merc'ing foes when all of a sudden the framerate drops to single digits and when it returns you're dead on the floor-- happens frequently when air-strikes are called in.


Lastly, you must have never played halo. Honestly, I suck at that game but I've never been in a situation where I was playing it and I felt my shot just didn't count... or that I died due to some total BS.

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post #373 of 10486 Old 05-25-2011, 02:55 PM
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Originally Posted by bd2003 View Post

Are you sure you're not just experiencing a side effect of the generally less accurate weapons in BO (and WaW)? It is indeed easier to hit people in MW1/2, but the weapons are vastly more accurate with far less recoil.

Remember theres always a slight disconnect with when you actually hit and when the hit registers...add a lot of recoil to the mix and it can feel a little janky even on a good connection.

I have serious doubts treyarch has done anything to the netcode itself.

We've gone through this in the Black Ops thread plenty. Some people have issues with it, some don't.
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post #374 of 10486 Old 05-25-2011, 02:57 PM
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... I must be playing a different game.

I'll accept that greater recoil combined with no stopping power does make it a more laborious affair to down an opponent-- However, I won't accept that mw2 and Blops are in the same realm for lag or hit detection or whatever it is you want to call it. There are several oddities with Blops that I have not experienced (or, at least, not nearly to the extent seen in Blops) in the modern warfare series:

1) The around-the-corner shot (see "Wanted")-- you're opponent kills you AFTER you have already ducked behind a wall which is not penetrable. This also happens to me in reverse: I frequently kill players who are out of my field of view.

2) The "WTF!?" kill cam-- I understand that the kill cam is not an accurate appraisal of events as they happen on screen... But why is it that the kill cams in Blops vary so wildly from what you are witnessing on screen? Why is it that this is NOT an issue in the MW series? I've seen kill cams where my opponent hit everything BUT me and yet I still die! This has not once happened in almost a month of mw2 play time. I now notice that the many Blops players instinctively wiggle their aim and this seems to actually help in kills! In reverse, I've emptied whole clips into opponents-- scoring hit markers-- only to be rewarded a death and a kill cam which presents my opponents view point and (apparently) I didn't hit him once!

3) The "blop shot"-- you drop an opponent into "second chance" and he still manages to kill you with his primary weapon.

4) The freeze frame death-- you're strolling along pleasantly merc'ing foes when all of a sudden the framerate drops to single digits and when it returns you're dead on the floor-- happens frequently when air-strikes are called in.


Lastly, you must have never played halo. Honestly, I suck at that game but I've never been in a situation where I was playing it and I felt my shot just didn't count... or that I died due to some total BS.

I get what you're saying on all but number 3. Can't say I've ever seen that one.

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post #375 of 10486 Old 05-25-2011, 03:09 PM
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I get what you're saying on all but number 3. Can't say I've ever seen that one.

Number 3 is a personal favorite of mine!

I have several examples on my file share-- but you should go watch Thundertoro on YouTube (402thunder402). I discovered him while looking for answers to this phenomenon. Thunder has not only experienced it (and documented it at length on his channel) but he's been a champion against second chance and apparently has spoke directly with David V (not going to butcher his last name) about the perk after thunder's subs flooded his twitter account...

Anyway, good stuff. And, yes, this happens to me all the time: you'll watch the kill cam and you'll see your opponent fall into "second chance" (die) but he'll keep his primary all the way down through the flop and will only pull his pistol AFTER he hits the ground (and the primary is firing the whole time). Originally, before "second chance" was patched, there was a noticeable flop as your opponent died and fell into "second chance" during which he couldn't attack-- that is gone now.

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post #376 of 10486 Old 05-25-2011, 03:25 PM
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post #377 of 10486 Old 05-25-2011, 03:29 PM
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Man I missed all the good fights in this thread!

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post #378 of 10486 Old 05-25-2011, 03:29 PM
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Originally Posted by bd2003 View Post

Are you sure you're not just experiencing a side effect of the generally less accurate weapons in BO (and WaW)? It is indeed easier to hit people in MW1/2, but the weapons are vastly more accurate with far less recoil.

Remember theres always a slight disconnect with when you actually hit and when the hit registers...add a lot of recoil to the mix and it can feel a little janky even on a good connection.

I have serious doubts treyarch has done anything to the netcode itself.

I did a little poking around the net and while nothing was confirmed one way or another it was implied that Blops was built off the cod4 "engine" that 3arc inherited from IW-- nothing of IW's improved mw2 "engine" is present in Blops. This would certainly make sense from a development standpoint, what with black ops already being a year in the pipe before mw2 was even released.

There is also some talk about patching and how 3arc's approach to Blops allowed them to more effectively modify the game through patch post release-- Robert bowling had stated that IW was looking to implement a similar system in mw3 due to the nightmare that mw2 became with it's balancing and cheating issues...

Not sure if any of this relates to the discussion but it seemed interesting...

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post #379 of 10486 Old 05-25-2011, 03:29 PM
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Originally Posted by sage11x View Post

... I must be playing a different game.

I'll accept that greater recoil combined with no stopping power does make it a more laborious affair to down an opponent-- However, I won't accept that mw2 and Blops are in the same realm for lag or hit detection or whatever it is you want to call it. There are several oddities with Blops that I have not experienced (or, at least, not nearly to the extent seen in Blops) in the modern warfare series:

1) The around-the-corner shot (see "Wanted")-- you're opponent kills you AFTER you have already ducked behind a wall which is not penetrable. This also happens to me in reverse: I frequently kill players who are out of my field of view.

2) The "WTF!?" kill cam-- I understand that the kill cam is not an accurate appraisal of events as they happen on screen... But why is it that the kill cams in Blops vary so wildly from what you are witnessing on screen? Why is it that this is NOT an issue in the MW series? I've seen kill cams where my opponent hit everything BUT me and yet I still die! (This has not once happened in almost a month of mw2 play time. I now notice that the many Blops players instinctively wiggle their aim and this seems to actually help in kills!) In reverse, I've emptied whole clips into opponents-- scoring hit markers-- only to be rewarded a death and a kill cam which presents my opponents view point and (apparently) I didn't hit him once!

3) The "blop shot"-- you drop an opponent into "second chance" and he still manages to kill you with his primary weapon.

4) The freeze frame death-- you're strolling along pleasantly merc'ing foes when all of a sudden the framerate drops to single digits and when it returns you're dead on the floor-- happens frequently when air-strikes are called in.


Lastly, you must have never played halo. Honestly, I suck at that game but I've never been in a situation where I was playing it and I felt my shot just didn't count... or that I died due to some total BS.

Ive noticed all of these same issues in MW2. Theyre all directly attributable to internet latency (aside from #4). The only thing you need to know to explain everything you notice is that hits are determined on the client side. Thats it.

1) You think you ducked around a wall? On his screen, that hasnt happened yet. He shot you before you got around it on his screen. My other personal favorite is the guy that flies around a corner to stab you in the face with seemingly incredible reaction speed. The simple answer is he turned the corner and stabbed you in the face before you even knew he was there.

2) Which is why on the killcam it seems like you didnt even get a shot off. Cause from his POV, you didnt. I have a feeling the lower precision of the BO killcam is due to the need to record the entire match, a new feature that wasnt present in MW2. So the data is a bit more compressed/truncated - thats why it seems like theyre wiggling.

3) And potentially he could have pumped enough shots into you to kill you on his end with his primary, which the server still counted because technically you didnt kill him, just disabled him.

The main way to solve this problem is create a better internet and enforce higher quality connections on players. Even a 30-50ms lag leaves a lot of room for games to be desynchronized. They could also slow the game down which would mask the problem quite a bit, which is why you notice a lot less of these WTF moments in Halo.

Or they could go back to 1990s style server side hit detection, which I assure you is a cure that is far, far worse than the symptoms. Before anyone says it, no, dedicated servers will not do a damn thing. Its a problem with the client/server model in general, who the server is doesnt change anything.

Just keep in mind that every time lag causes a WTF moment for you, someone has a WTF moment of their own. This is reality for any online game.

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post #380 of 10486 Old 05-25-2011, 03:30 PM
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post #381 of 10486 Old 05-25-2011, 03:35 PM
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I did a little poking around the net and while nothing was confirmed one way or another it was implied that Blops was built off the cod4 "engine" that 3arc inherited from IW-- nothing of IW's improved mw2 "engine" is present in Blops. This would certainly make sense from a development standpoint, what with black ops already being a year in the pipe before mw2 was even released.

There is also some talk about patching and how 3arc's approach to Blops allowed them to more effectively modify the game through patch post release-- Robert bowling had stated that IW was looking to implement a similar system in mw3 due to the nightmare that mw2 became with it's balancing and cheating issues...

Not sure if any of this relates to the discussion but it seemed interesting...

Yep, it was interesting, good stuff.

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post #382 of 10486 Old 05-25-2011, 03:38 PM
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Originally Posted by sage11x View Post

I did a little poking around the net and while nothing was confirmed one way or another it was implied that Blops was built off the cod4 "engine" that 3arc inherited from IW-- nothing of IW's improved mw2 "engine" is present in Blops. This would certainly make sense from a development standpoint, what with black ops already being a year in the pipe before mw2 was even released.

There is also some talk about patching and how 3arc's approach to Blops allowed them to more effectively modify the game through patch post release-- Robert bowling had stated that IW was looking to implement a similar system in mw3 due to the nightmare that mw2 became with it's balancing and cheating issues...

Not sure if any of this relates to the discussion but it seemed interesting...

Well, they seem to have forked in some way after WaW. But engine is a very loose term. Neither of them may have touched the core netcode while highly diverging on graphics. I suspect theyre sharing back and forth quite a bit though, especially now.

Regarding the patching, thats why when you fire up BO MP, it takes quite a bit longer than MW2 - its downloading a good chunk of data, and you'll see the version number change at the upper right. It allows them to do a lot more on the fly, independent of microsoft's or sony's online patching infrastructure, but it requires more work on their part. In either case, activision owns both studios, and owns the code, so I suspect code sharing is not only encouraged but mandatory and enforced by the higher ups.

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post #383 of 10486 Old 05-25-2011, 03:42 PM
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Ive noticed all of these same issues in MW2. Theyre all directly attributable to internet latency (aside from #4). The only thing you need to know to explain everything you notice is that hits are determined on the client side. Thats it.

1) You think you ducked around a wall? On his screen, that hasnt happened yet. He shot you before you got around it on his screen. My other personal favorite is the guy that flies around a corner to stab you in the face with seemingly incredible reaction speed. The simple answer is he turned the corner and stabbed you in the face before you even knew he was there.

2) Which is why on the killcam it seems like you didnt even get a shot off. Cause from his POV, you didnt. I have a feeling the lower precision of the BO killcam is due to the need to record the entire match, a new feature that wasnt present in MW2. So the data is a bit more compressed/truncated - thats why it seems like theyre wiggling.

3) And potentially he could have pumped enough shots into you to kill you on his end with his primary, which the server still counted because technically you didnt kill him, just disabled him.

The main way to solve this problem is create a better internet and enforce higher quality connections on players. Even a 30-50ms lag leaves a lot of room for games to be desynchronized. They could also slow the game down which would mask the problem quite a bit, which is why you notice a lot less of these WTF moments in Halo.

Or they could go back to 1990s style server side hit detection, which I assure you is a cure that is far, far worse than the symptoms. Before anyone says it, no, dedicated servers will not do a damn thing. Its a problem with the client/server model in general, who the server is doesnt change anything.

Just keep in mind that every time lag causes a WTF moment for you, someone has a WTF moment of their own. This is reality for any online game.

I get that and your explanation makes sense (I'm a banker not a programmer so I have a "dangerous" knowledge of this subject-- ie enough to get me in trouble ). You're obviously versed on the subject...

BUT...

I honesty don't have these issues in mw2. Are there wtf moments? Yes. Do I sometimes see a kill cam that looks suspicious or wonder if I wasn't really behind cover? Sure. But these are exceptions that happen so infrequently that they barely compute-- I play ALOT of CoD (I have almost a month on mw2 and last I checked around 5 days on Blops) and my experience with blops is that those inconsistencies I mentioned are a consistent fact of my online play-- and I'm actually better at Blops! (thanks to weak killstreaks I die far less and generally do better when it's gun on gun and explosives don't enter the mix) I still just can't enjoy myself though-- add to that the really lackluster graphics/textures, ugly color scheme and overall lack of variety and Blops is, to me, a far less enjoyable game.

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post #384 of 10486 Old 05-25-2011, 04:33 PM
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I get that and your explanation makes sense (I'm a banker not a programmer so I have a "dangerous" knowledge of this subject-- ie enough to get me in trouble ). You're obviously versed on the subject...

BUT...

I honesty don't have these issues in mw2. Are there wtf moments? Yes. Do I sometimes see a kill cam that looks suspicious or wonder if I wasn't really behind cover? Sure. But these are exceptions that happen so infrequently that they barely compute-- I play ALOT of CoD (I have almost a month on mw2 and last I checked around 5 days on Blops) and my experience with blops is that those inconsistencies I mentioned are a consistent fact of my online play-- and I'm actually better at Blops! (thanks to weak killstreaks I die far less and generally do better when it's gun on gun and explosives don't enter the mix) I still just can't enjoy myself though-- add to that the really lackluster graphics/textures, ugly color scheme and overall lack of variety and Blops is, to me, a far less enjoyable game.

Well, I've personally always noticed them in all COD games, really all online games, although I think the seemingly less accurate killcam in BO might exacerbate how one feels about them. They could potentially change the killcam up a bit to make certain situations seem less screwy, but that will make other situations seem more screwy.

All I know is that I've been gaming on the internet since it's even been possible, I've seen bad netcode, and I've seen good netcode, and CoD is easily the best. Easily.

In either case, I hope it helps to know that those situations are unavoidable consequences of internet play, not a bug or anything. Nothing they can do can completely eliminate it. Their biggest mistake was ever showing the killcam in the first place, and giving people the impression something is messed up. Had they not implemented the killcam at all, no one would probably have any idea how janky it all really is, because the actual gameplay feels so solid.

There should be like a disclaimer at the bottom of it like the one under your car's side mirrors: "Warning - events in killcam may not reflect what you saw happen."

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post #385 of 10486 Old 05-25-2011, 04:38 PM
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Ive noticed all of these same issues in MW2. Theyre all directly attributable to internet latency (aside from #4). The only thing you need to know to explain everything you notice is that hits are determined on the client side. Thats it.

1) You think you ducked around a wall? On his screen, that hasnt happened yet. He shot you before you got around it on his screen. My other personal favorite is the guy that flies around a corner to stab you in the face with seemingly incredible reaction speed. The simple answer is he turned the corner and stabbed you in the face before you even knew he was there.

2) Which is why on the killcam it seems like you didnt even get a shot off. Cause from his POV, you didnt. I have a feeling the lower precision of the BO killcam is due to the need to record the entire match, a new feature that wasnt present in MW2. So the data is a bit more compressed/truncated - thats why it seems like theyre wiggling.

3) And potentially he could have pumped enough shots into you to kill you on his end with his primary, which the server still counted because technically you didnt kill him, just disabled him.

The main way to solve this problem is create a better internet and enforce higher quality connections on players. Even a 30-50ms lag leaves a lot of room for games to be desynchronized. They could also slow the game down which would mask the problem quite a bit, which is why you notice a lot less of these WTF moments in Halo.

Or they could go back to 1990s style server side hit detection, which I assure you is a cure that is far, far worse than the symptoms. Before anyone says it, no, dedicated servers will not do a damn thing. Its a problem with the client/server model in general, who the server is doesnt change anything.

Just keep in mind that every time lag causes a WTF moment for you, someone has a WTF moment of their own. This is reality for any online game.

The gears 3 beta had both dedicated servers and p2p. Homefront also had both. Having played both with both systems, there is no way that p2p is the same.

Do both systems having lag and lag comp issues? Sure, but dedicated servers are a lot more consistent.
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The gears 3 beta had both dedicated servers and p2p. Homefront also had both. Having played both with both systems, there is no way that p2p is the same.

Do both systems having lag and lag comp issues? Sure, but dedicated servers are a lot more consistent.

Just to be clear about the terminology, CoD is not P2P. Its still client/server, just one of the clients also doubles as the host.

Yes, dedicated servers can be more consistent. But a player hosting with a fast connection can be equally as good. The only real downside of the current system is that a player connection can be a bit more unstable than a corporate server, but that can be alleviated with better host selection and quicker/more seamless transition.

Now for the whole host of reasons you do NOT want dedicated servers:

1) They cost someone else money to run. For a game where people dont pay to play, that means these servers will get shut down before long. Like playing COD4? You probably still wouldnt be able to if it required dedicated servers.

2) They cost someone else money to run. Ever notice how every MMO gets off to a terrible start because the servers are overloaded. Ever notice how even the matchmaking servers get overloaded on every CoD release? You want your actual game servers to be that janky? Theyll always buy just enough capacity and not a cent more, and they ALWAYS underestimate, especially on launch. I guarantee you....I absolutely guarantee you that if they moved to dedicated servers you would not be able to play MP for days after launch if 4 million people are trying to hit it. Every tried playing L4D on 360 with dedicated servers when it first came out? It was IMPOSSIBLE. Thankfully they had the option to locally host, and that was a million times better. A controlled beta population and a game that sold poorly are not what you should go by.

3) They cost someone else money to run. They will spread server capacity so thin that you might have a consistent connection, but during peak times it might fall short of a good player host.

4) They cost someone else money to run. Everyone says they dont want to pay to play CoD, but this is the quickest and most surefire way to ensure that we'll have to in the future.

There are better ways to solve host latency issues. Dedicated servers would be a ****ing castastrophe. I fully expect the Gears 3 launch to crash and burn. Its a buzzword that sounds great but the consequences are too harsh, and it doesnt solve the core problem of latency. Player hosting has worked fine for years.

To be clear, I fully support the ability for PC players to choose this as an option. And for console players to have the ability to choose to *PAY* for their own servers if they desire. This could even be a primary part of their new subscription service. But forcing dedicated servers on everyone, like epic seems to be doing with Gears 3, strikes me as a terrible, terrible idea for CoD.

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post #387 of 10486 Old 05-25-2011, 05:08 PM
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The gears 3 beta had both dedicated servers and p2p. Homefront also had both. Having played both with both systems, there is no way that p2p is the same.

Do both systems having lag and lag comp issues? Sure, but dedicated servers are a lot more consistent.

That wasn't my (brief) experience with Homefront. The lag/network issues were just as bad as Blops with dedicated servers. Having said that, I'll give you that Homefront had a whole lot of issues, so maybe that was skewing things.

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post #388 of 10486 Old 05-25-2011, 05:13 PM
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Just to be clear about the terminology, CoD is not P2P. Its still client/server, just one of the clients also doubles as the host.

Yes, dedicated servers can be more consistent. But a player hosting with a fast connection can be equally as good. The only real downside of the current system is that a player connection can be a bit more unstable than a corporate server, but that can be alleviated with better host selection and quicker/more seamless transition.

Now for the whole host of reasons you do NOT want dedicated servers:

1) They cost someone else money to run. For a game where people dont pay to play, that means these servers will get shut down before long. Like playing COD4? You probably still wouldnt be able to if it required dedicated servers.

2) They cost someone else money to run. Ever notice how every MMO gets off to a terrible start because the servers are overloaded. Ever notice how even the matchmaking servers get overloaded on every CoD release? You want your actual game servers to be that janky? Theyll always buy just enough capacity and not a cent more, and they ALWAYS underestimate, especially on launch. I guarantee you....I absolutely guarantee you that if they moved to dedicated servers you would not be able to play MP for days after launch if 4 million people are trying to hit it. Every tried playing L4D on 360 with dedicated servers when it first came out? It was IMPOSSIBLE. Thankfully they had the option to locally host, and that was a million times better. A controlled beta population and a game that sold poorly are not what you should go by.

3) They cost someone else money to run. They will spread server capacity so thin that you might have a consistent connection, but during peak times it might fall short of a good player host.

4) They cost someone else money to run. Everyone says they dont want to pay to play CoD, but this is the quickest and most surefire way to ensure that we'll have to in the future.

There are better ways to solve host latency issues. Dedicated servers would be a ****ing castastrophe. I fully expect the Gears 3 launch to crash and burn. Its a buzzword that sounds great but the consequences are too harsh, and it doesnt solve the core problem of latency. Player hosting has worked fine for years.

To be clear, I fully support the ability for PC players to choose this as an option. And for console players to have the ability to choose to *PAY* for their own servers if they desire. This could even be a primary part of their new subscription service. But forcing dedicated servers on everyone, like epic seems to be doing with Gears 3, strikes me as a terrible, terrible idea for CoD.

That was my mistake, I've brought it up before myself. They only used p2p for COD 3. They've used listen servers for everything else.

Sure, dedicated servers have a ton of logistical problems. That doesn't mean playing on them when they are running correctly isn't better than the alternative which is what I was commenting on.

Either way, like I said before, we covered this to death in the Black Ops thread with videos and treyarch comments and everything else. Some had issues and some didn't. It comes down to who are you going to believe, me or your lying eyes?
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post #389 of 10486 Old 05-25-2011, 05:16 PM
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That wasn't my (brief) experience with Homefront. The lag/network issues were just as bad as Blops with dedicated servers. Having said that, I'll give you that Homefront had a whole lot of issues, so maybe that was skewing things.

Yeah, homefront was a mess all the way around.

The Gears 3 beta is a better example.
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post #390 of 10486 Old 05-26-2011, 05:20 AM
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SP preview up at joystiq, a little spoilery.

http://www.joystiq.com/2011/05/26/mo...tter-than-one/

No mention of MP except for this:

"And later this year, when we reveal multiplayer with Elite, our fans will really see what innovation means with Call of Duty," Schofield said. "The opportunity to bring millions of Call of Duty gamers together in all new ways is something that we believe will change how people think of multiplayer."

So from that it sounds like we might not even hear a peep about multiplayer until well after e3.

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