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post #451 of 10486 Old 05-31-2011, 09:15 AM
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Ya know, I just had a thought, I don't think this subscription is going to work.

Everyone keeps comparing CoD's success to WoW's, one of the reasons the idea of a "pay per month" service keeps coming up. Here's the difference though, WoW hasn't changed in what, 6 1/2 years? Sure there's been updates and expansions and such but it's still the exact same game. With CoD being on a 1 year cycle and different games pandering to different gamers, they're looking at losing a big chunk of their user base every other year. I mean think about it, how many people who loved CoD 4 hated W@W? How many people who hated MW2 love Black Ops and visa versa? The series changes so much that people are NOT going to pay a monthly fee to keep it up when "their" style of game is here today, gone tomorrow.

Just my thoughts though.

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post #452 of 10486 Old 05-31-2011, 09:24 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kabob983 View Post

Ya know, I just had a thought, I don't think this subscription is going to work.

Everyone keeps comparing CoD's success to WoW's, one of the reasons the idea of a "pay per month" service keeps coming up. Here's the difference though, WoW hasn't changed in what, 6 1/2 years? Sure there's been updates and expansions and such but it's still the exact same game. With CoD being on a 1 year cycle and different games pandering to different gamers, they're looking at losing a big chunk of their user base every other year. I mean think about it, how many people who loved CoD 4 hated W@W? How many people who hated MW2 love Black Ops and visa versa? The series changes so much that people are NOT going to pay a monthly fee to keep it up when "their" style of game is here today, gone tomorrow.

Just my thoughts though.

They're developed and engineered completely different. Success means nothing, since COD is already exponentially cheaper to develop.

WoW needs huge server farms to keep a persistent world operating in real time. It has thousands of weapons, loot, expansions, ect. The user base, and the sheer volume of stuff needs to be kept track of, mantained, backed up, ect.

COD has gone backwards, only hosting matchmaking servers. The game is P2P (remember when they argued that's better for us?)

Hopefully this news causes people to vote with their money, and people pull their pre-orders. It's the only way to change minds at Activision.
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post #453 of 10486 Old 05-31-2011, 09:38 AM
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Originally Posted by number1laing View Post

I can't believe Activision is going to be selling a damn stat tracking website for $8 a month.

1. That's how I feel as well. They are charging for something that alot of other publishers give away for free. No doubt that Bungie.net is their model.
What's really funny is how they are going to charge you to do "social networking" with other COD players.

2. I play a lot of FIFA11 and all of the things Activision are selling with "Elite" are free from EA when you buy FIFA11.
You can get even more features when you play FIFA's "Ultimate Team", which is a free download.

3. Notice the lack of ADVERTISING on the site?
If Facebook is one of their models then you can bet that Activision will be taking all the info you give them to join "Elite" and selling it to marketers as well as pushing targeting ads to you via the "Elite" website.
They will get you to pay for a service, and then make even more money off you selling your info.
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post #454 of 10486 Old 05-31-2011, 09:44 AM
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So they are amping up everything we already get for free from blops and slapping a monthly fee on it. That's the sort of thing that makes me want to give them the finger and play another game just on principle. Total bs.

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post #455 of 10486 Old 05-31-2011, 10:00 AM
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I sure hope that Kotick is betting the farm on this. It would be great to see this fail hard and watch him get the boot.

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post #456 of 10486 Old 05-31-2011, 10:07 AM
 
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Also, I doubt this is the big news. This is the stuff that really doesn't change anything, but adds to it. It made a huge splash, even CNN is picking up on the charged story, so the negativity is downplayed in this first release.

Look for the features that might be prohibitive, or effect gameplay to be released when things settle down, and it won't be reported by every media outlet. It's only good PR to do so.
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post #457 of 10486 Old 05-31-2011, 10:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kabob983 View Post

I think they mean the beta for the Elite service, not for MW3.

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post #458 of 10486 Old 05-31-2011, 10:30 AM
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This will probably be the first year I don't purchase a COD game (played all of them since the first one on PC sans titles like "Big Red One"). I am unsure how having Infinity Ward create the single player and then have Raven + Sledgehammer develop the multiplayer. Two different studios created Medal of Honor last year and I thought the multiplayer was horrid. Of course, I'll give MW3 the benefit of the doubt and read the reviews first. However, if I'm expected to pay even $4.99 per month for something that I can play for free anyway, I'll move over to Uncharted 3 or Battlefield
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post #459 of 10486 Old 05-31-2011, 10:45 AM
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F elite I just play the damm game (and pretty badly I will admit) so there is no way I would pay for that. Theater mode going to pay only along with all the stats would not bother me one bit. Access to maps before they are released...big deal. If no one else has them who will you play with. Facebook interaction...really? Phfft.

I admit I am a cheap bastard but do any of the more hardcore gamers here plan on paying for this as it has been outlined here?

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post #460 of 10486 Old 05-31-2011, 10:48 AM
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Not surprised at this and not sure I care.

I realize that this is just the precursor to making the monthly fee mandatory for online play but this seems like pointless crap no one really needs.

Of course I am sure the next bit will be weapons or perks only available to monthly subscribers that will change the gameplay thus forcing everyone to "pay to play" if they want a level playing field. It sucks but it is the feature. Guess I will be back to being a "campaign player" only here soon.

Oh well.

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post #461 of 10486 Old 05-31-2011, 10:57 AM
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If the COD community stays away it will be free by the time the next version of the game drops.
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post #462 of 10486 Old 05-31-2011, 11:04 AM
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They CoD community won't stay away though.

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post #463 of 10486 Old 05-31-2011, 11:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kabob983 View Post

They CoD community won't stay away though.

Correct. Which I guess means that Activision knows what to do (i.e. how to make money) and the rest don't know crap.

It sucks but I bet this will be a good cash cow for them for a few years (not a huge one but still good). And they will steadily add more to the monthly service to keep folks from ditching it. I think it will be another year before we see this service offering "game changing" things like weapons or perks though but it will happen.

You can rest assure that special camos, outfits, themes etc will all be part of this service. The problem I see is that they EVENTUALLY they will most likely charge "X" amount for this service but then some sort of ultra cool something you want will require you to not only have to have the monthly fee but then there will be another one time fee to get it (ala COD themes etc paid for via MS Points etc).

In other words they are setting up their own MS Live Points system just for COD and you can bet they will spread this out to other games at some point.

MS Live - $49/year
MS Points - $19 for 1600 points
COD "Elite" - $8 a month??
COD "Elite Points" - who knows ...
Gaming Community in general - pissed as hell and b*tching all the time but will pay it anyway
COD Community - will pay it no matter what

AVSers -- never happy unless game was free and 100% glitch free forever

Activision .... laughing all the way to the bank!

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EDIT - And how long before this $8 a month COD Fee begins getting limitations on it like Netflix -- want DVDs .. great $7.99 a month but want BRs too ohhh thats another $2 month now too.

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post #464 of 10486 Old 05-31-2011, 11:28 AM
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This Elite service to me seems like something that would be used by kids since they are the ones that live and breathe video games when not accidentally making babies. All jokes aside, for us adults with a day job and a family don't need to worry about this...do we? All the CoD games I play, I only care about completing in game challenges and just playing the game with what's given. I wouldn't pay to see all the stats and stuff nor would I need it.

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post #465 of 10486 Old 05-31-2011, 11:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GCS View Post

Correct. Which I guess means that Activision knows what to do (i.e. how to make money) and the rest don't know crap.

It sucks but I bet this will be a good cash cow for them for a few years (not a huge one but still good). And they will steadily add more to the monthly service to keep folks from ditching it. I think it will be another year before we see this service offering "game changing" things like weapons or perks though but it will happen.

You can rest assure that special camos, outfits, themes etc will all be part of this service. The problem I see is that they EVENTUALLY they will most likely charge "X" amount for this service but then some sort of ultra cool something you want will require you to not only have to have the monthly fee but then there will be another one time fee to get it (ala COD themes etc paid for via MS Points etc).

In other words they are setting up their own MS Live Points system just for COD and you can bet they will spread this out to other games at some point.

MS Live - $49/year
MS Points - $19 for 1600 points
COD "Elite" - $8 a month??
COD "Elite Points" - who knows ...
Gaming Community in general - pissed as hell and b*tching all the time but will pay it anyway
COD Community - will pay it no matter what

AVSers -- never happy unless game was free and 100% glitch free forever

Activision .... laughing all the way to the bank!

Greg

EDIT - And how long before this $8 a month COD Fee begins getting limitations on it like Netflix -- want DVDs .. great $7.99 a month but want BRs too ohhh thats another $2 month now too.

Agreed, well said.

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post #466 of 10486 Old 05-31-2011, 11:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jitu View Post

This Elite service to me seems like something that would be used by kids since they are the ones that live and breathe video games when not accidentally making babies. All jokes aside, for us adults with a day job and a family don't need to worry about this...do we? All the CoD games I play, I only care about completing in game challenges and just playing the game with what's given. I wouldn't pay to see all the stats and stuff nor would I need it.

No. I thought it was cool with all the stats black ops added but I never even looked at them.
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post #467 of 10486 Old 05-31-2011, 11:44 AM
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I actually like the elite service. It's something I don't have to worry about paying for and its not gamebreaking. I was expecting worse.

Adding perks and weapons down the road would be difficult unless they split the base into elite and non-elite members. You need to have the model on everybody's console and they are too big to fit into a 4mb update. It would completely fracture the player base if it was a dlc option. You'd end up with an infinite number of different groups based on which dlc they have and don't.
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post #468 of 10486 Old 05-31-2011, 11:46 AM
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Originally Posted by Monger View Post

No. I thought it was cool with all the stats black ops added but I never even looked at them.

Same here. Besides the marquee at the bottom of the screen when in a game lobby, I don't venture out to the stats world. Honestly, I wouldn't even know what to do with all that stuff.

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post #469 of 10486 Old 05-31-2011, 01:02 PM
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I've never even looked at my KDR in BLOPS. And never care too. The menus are too complicated, too slow and to be perfectly honest. I just dont give a fock.

As long as I'm still having tons of fun with my friends.. I have no desire to know if Im averaging 0.93 or 1.59 this week.

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post #470 of 10486 Old 05-31-2011, 01:10 PM
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I've never even looked at my KDR in BLOPS. And never care too. The menus are too complicated, too slow and to be perfectly honest. I just dont give a fock.

As long as I'm still having tons of fun with my friends.. I have no desire to know if Im averaging 0.93 or 1.59 this week.

Dude, your KDR is 0.0 this week! Maybe you should get online sometime...

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post #471 of 10486 Old 05-31-2011, 02:27 PM
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None of this is incredibly exciting to me. It looks nice and it seems to go deep, but it doesnt seem to be anything too far beyond whats in game or available piecemeal from other sites. Stuff like the weapon faqs will be copied wholesale and posted all over the net the day its available. And even then, it doesnt look like anything beyond the fluff youd get from a strategy guide...certainly not the cold hard stats the real pros want, just silly little non-descriptive bars.

I just cant work up any indignation over it though. Theyre still not doing nor have they even hinted at doing the insidious things that EA has done like locking out weapons, maps and game modes under microtransactions. I give activision credit so far for understanding not to split the player base, not to create a situation of haves and have nots. Their restraint in that area should at least be recognized.

Still, I dont expect something for nothing. Seems like a lot of work has gone into it, enough that a reasonable person can look at it and recognize something on that level simply might not be a worthwhile investment for activision unless they could charge a fee for it. I hope I get into the beta and I'll certainly give it a shot, but I need to see more than a snazzy community website. Perhaps their biggest mistake was building enough of the stat tracking into BO in the first place that people feel entitled to it.

What I really want to see is them recognizing and taking advantage of the fact that the people that sign up for this service are the true hardcore of the hardcore CoD players. This should mean:

1) Access to betas for upcoming CoD games/map packs
2) REAL stats, real explanations of the guns/attachments
3) An ongoing dialog - polls, surveys, etc about what is/isnt OP/UP
4) A beta channel of some sort where these balance changes can be tested

I dont think theyve quite nailed what the hardcore CoD player really wants and is ready to pay for.

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post #472 of 10486 Old 05-31-2011, 02:59 PM
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Read a bit more and it seems the situation is a bit more nuanced than at first glance. From my understanding part of the elite service is a freebie, and they're not saying what is and isn't paid. So a good deal of what theyve shown, especially what's mirrored from the game itself, is most likely free.

Also, this is clearly being retrofit into BO, whereas MW3 seems to be designed with it in mind, so it's usefulness might be more apparent once we actually know more about mw3 mp itself.

I suspect it's mostly going to be the tournament and meta-game stuff they'll be charging for. I still expect more, but how much I expect depends on how much they charge.

I still can't say I share the same fears as most of you guys. I think they really do recognize how much of their success is due to how inclusive the vanilla game is, how they've never really made it so you have to keep paying to keep playing, how this all only really works if everyone is in. EA has been selling more powerful weapons in expansions since BF2 in 2005, and it's only gotten worse since then - activision has had that option for the length of the entire CoD series and they've never used it. They may be the big nasty corporation that raised the cost on map packs, but they haven't even hinted at anything as ugly as what EA does with such regularity that they get a pass for it.

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post #473 of 10486 Old 05-31-2011, 03:45 PM
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The COD Elite dating service powered by match.com should be a nice feature.

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post #474 of 10486 Old 05-31-2011, 04:59 PM
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Took a glance at fourzerotwo's twitter and I'm starting to realize how bad theyve screwed the messaging on this. I dont think they fully understand the level of internet rage thats building around charging for CoD related stuff. They needed to really head this off at the pass if theyre serious about not getting pushback.

His claim is that groups and stats amongst other parts are free. The strategy guide stuff just has to be free as well. Not sure whats left anymore that anyone would actually want to pay for. The tournament stuff I guess? His claim is that anything that any competitor is offering for free, including bungie, is free from them as well.

I know theyre not announcing pricing, but they really should clarify that outside of twitter.

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post #475 of 10486 Old 05-31-2011, 05:05 PM
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Does it not bother anyone that a game called "Call of Duty" is now being hyped for its "Tournament" mode......methinks the game hath jumped thy shark, because when I watch a round of these games now its not like watching guys in combat, its like guys playing speed-tag or dodge-ball with bullets......

Can't please everyone I guess...

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post #476 of 10486 Old 05-31-2011, 05:39 PM
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It's probably better to just not talk about Elite service in MW3 thread. Anyone care to create a thread for it?

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post #477 of 10486 Old 05-31-2011, 05:47 PM
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It's probably better to just not talk about Elite service in MW3 thread. Anyone care to create a thread for it?

Why would we not talk about a major part of MW3 in the MW3 thread?

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post #478 of 10486 Old 05-31-2011, 05:55 PM
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Why would we not talk about a major part of MW3 in the MW3 thread?

Aren't they doing this with BLOPS first?

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post #479 of 10486 Old 06-01-2011, 04:48 AM
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Good morning!

Wired has a new article up about gamers "raging" against Activision over Elite:
http://www.wired.com/gamelife/2011/0...ite-reactions/



Activision's new Call of Duty Elite service has triggered a wide spectrum of reactions from gamers.
Image courtesy Activision
News of a premium service for Call of Duty has caused some fans of the game to fly into a rage, claiming gamemaker Activision should not charge monthly fees for online content.

Call of Duty Elite, which publisher Activision announced Tuesday, is a hybrid stat-tracker–social network for the online-shooter series that will become available this summer. The basic service will be free, but some features will require a premium subscription.

While Activision has not laid out exactly what extras will come with a fee attached, some Call of Duty players have taken to the web to protest what they see as a cash grab by the makers of the best-selling videogame in the United States.

“Call of Duty Elite represents the next big step in finding a way to gouge more money out of gamers’ wallets,” Philip Hansen, who runs gaming website Evil Avatar, said in an e-mail to Wired.com.

While massively multiplayer online games such as World of Warcraft often carry monthly fees, Elite is the first optional premium service for a standard retail game, and an innovative new attempt to milk more money out of the Call of Duty cash cow.

Some gamers see it as an attempt to charge an additional fee for features that are often available in online multiplayer games for free, such as social networking groups and detailed tracking of in-game statistics.

“Instead of respecting their customers and rewarding loyal players, Activision has decided to walk a path toward microtransactions and premium multiplayer content,” Hansen said.




In a video launching a Call of Duty Elite protest, The Gunn Shop called the premium service a “douche move” on Activision’s part (video above).

“It is out of pure greed and lack of respect for their community that Activision has decided to charge a subscription fee for the content to be provided under Call of Duty Elite,” The Gunn Shop wrote on its YouTube page. “Services that other developers offer for free. Make it free, or GTFO!”

Jesse VanLuven, a 36-year-old gamer, called the upcoming service “insulting.”

“We put up with raised game prices, pay subscription fees on Xbox Live and have to pay more than we should for [downloadable content],” VanLuven said by e-mail. “And yet here is Activision adding a new fee, just because they think they can get more money out of gamers, not to bring something new to us.”

Other gamers aren’t as concerned. Some have praised Activision for creating an optional feature rather than charging a fee for standard online play.

“I think the Elite program is fine,” gamer and freelance writer Hollander Cooper said in an e-mail. He compares the service to Sony’s PlayStation Network, which offers a free basic package as well as the premium PlayStation Plus package, which adds features for a monthly fee.

Gamer Mike Pergola told Wired.com he doesn’t intend to use Elite, but he thinks it’s a good way to keep gamers hooked on the game’s competitive elements.

‘I think it’s a rather brilliant move on Activision’s part.’
“I think it’s a rather brilliant move on Activision’s part, as it will add new life to the online experience, particularly for ‘hard-core’ players,” Pergola said. “With such a saturated e-market these days, the obvious strategy is to keep people online more, and this is a good way to do it.”

Other Call of Duty players pointed out Elite’s similarities to Bungie’s free service for Halo games.

Call of Duty Elite’s “weapon-use charts and even the fonts seem ripped directly from Bungie’s site,” said game-design student Tyler van Vierssen in an e-mail. “It’s as if they took the limited ‘Pro’ features that were used by Bungie for video management, and extended it to their entire website.”

Activision’s social media rep, Dan Amrich, posted a short FAQ about the upcoming Elite service. Then he spent the day on Twitter parrying gamers’ gripes about the announcement.

“You may not see the value until you get to try it yourself, but that’s where this summer’s beta comes in handy,” he tweeted. When Wired.com asked for comment on the backlash, Activision did not respond by press time.

Bonus: Banning Bigots?
Elite’s social networking features will allow gamers to create and join clans based on personal interests and affiliations. GayGamer writer Scott Nichols said he hopes Elite will allow lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender Call of Duty players to avoid the bigotry and hateful language he says they usually experience in other online games.

“Online shooters are known for their flagrant hate speech, and groups could offer ways of [meeting] like-minded individuals much easier,” Nichols said in an e-mail. Nichols said he hopes Activision will create ways for groups to moderate themselves. so “haters and bigots” cannot harass them.

Though publicly available groups will be free on Elite, private clans will require premium membership to join.

“This is a huge opportunity for Activision to pull the Call of Duty community out of the current Wild West it inhabits,” Nichols said.
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Seems like theyre totally overestimating gamers' opinions of activision as a company. They should know by now how much people despise paying for anything, and at least put their best foot forward by being as clear as possible about what is and isn't free. I've read 3-4 articles and I still don't get it. It doesn't even seem like they know.

I guess their goal is to get everyone hooked on it with the beta and then announce pricing and details later. Internet nerd rage is pretty impotent in the end, and people will decide by then whether they want it or not.

But I was already open to the idea of paying for something, and if their goal was to get people excited, it looks like they've completely failed.

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