Microsoft fires the first shot in the "NEXT" generation.... - Page 110 - AVS Forum
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post #3271 of 7006 Old 05-31-2012, 12:34 AM
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Originally Posted by confidenceman View Post

See above. I have no idea where you're getting this from. This only makes sense if you're talking about the 360. Otherwise, Japan is a significant portion of the global market. Considering that
Also, why does this matter? Japan is a major game market. No two ways about it. Also, knowing how poorly the Japanese think of American tech products (and that's putting it lightly), it's significant that the iPhone is now the top-selling smartphone in Japan. The first language Siri spoke other than English? Japanese. Clearly, Japan is a major gaming market.

sheesh. I even give you guys numbers and you are all in denial.

the Wii sold like hotcakes in Japan. and yet after all these years, only 12 million Wii's sold in Japan.

after 10+ years of the PS2, only 21 million sold in Japan.

You guys are far overestimating the buying power of Japan and its significance in the marketplace. A distant third is still a distant third. and it only goes to show the minuscule sales for the rest of the world outside the US and Europe.

It's US/Europe sales of the PS2 and the Wii that made them what they are. You can even say the same for the PS3. It's the US market and the European market that make the vast bulk of PS3 sales. After all these years, 6 million PS3 sold in Japan.
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post #3272 of 7006 Old 05-31-2012, 05:07 AM
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Wii was a success to nintendo but failure for the over all game industry. The games attach rates to Wii compared to the Xbox was something crazy like 7:1. Sure it sold buncha hardware but most family and old folks home only bought it to play wii bowling.
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post #3273 of 7006 Old 05-31-2012, 05:22 AM
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Originally Posted by Goatse View Post

Wii was a success to nintendo but failure for the over all game industry. The games attach rates to Wii compared to the Xbox was something crazy like 7:1. Sure it sold buncha hardware but most family and old folks home only bought it to play wii bowling.

Not to mention its DLC and digital sales are absolutely laughable.

And they've alienated their most reliable customers. And developers.

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post #3274 of 7006 Old 05-31-2012, 06:02 AM
 
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We'll see. Big name Dev's seem excited to be getting to play with the WiiU.

I think it was more a problem of costs in that significant changes and dev time needed to be spent on getting non-Wii exclusive games up and running. Multiplats couldn't be created for the 360/PS3/PC and just dumped onto the older tech Wii, which drove up costs.

Nintendo licensing is also a little bit pricier, and they unfairly undercut their own products by a good $10-15 when selling wholesale, which ensures they get the most floor space and positioning.

Small Dev's and publishers had issues, but the same can be said abut their foray into next gen if they weren't on solid footing. The big guys seem like they couldn't say no to Nintendo.
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post #3275 of 7006 Old 05-31-2012, 06:20 AM
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Originally Posted by TyrantII View Post

We'll see. Big name Dev's seem excited to be getting to play with the WiiU.

I think it was more a problem of costs in that significant changes and dev time needed to be spent on getting non-Wii exclusive games up and running. Multiplats couldn't be created for the 360/PS3/PC and just dumped onto the older tech Wii, which drove up costs.

Nintendo licensing is also a little bit pricier, and they unfairly undercut their own products by a good $10-15 when selling wholesale, which ensures they get the most floor space and positioning.

Small Dev's and publishers had issues, but the same can be said abut their foray into next gen if they weren't on solid footing. The big guys seem like they couldn't say no to Nintendo.

I personally don't see current xbox/ps3 owners buying a wiiu. Nintendo has their casual/kids niche. Besides the next xbox/ps will be much more powerful than the WiiU.
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post #3276 of 7006 Old 05-31-2012, 06:33 AM
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I would be interested in the Wii U if they return to controller based gaming and not Wiimote controls. I'd love to play Mario Galaxy and Zelda but every time I start playing them I get annoyed by the motion controls about 1/3 of the way through the game and leave it to the side. I'm interested to see what they do with the new controller.

But I don't expect I'll ever buy a cross platform game on a Nintendo system instead of a Xbox system in the future.
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post #3277 of 7006 Old 05-31-2012, 06:53 AM
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Whatever happens, I hope at least we see some major differentiation in specs between the consoles this time around. Assuming MS takes the middle ground, and Nintendo scrapes the barrel, it'd be great if Sony could offer a true premium experience. The end result would probably just be third parties pushing the fundamentals that dont really take up dev time or money like frame rate, 3D, antialiasing, sound quality and load speed.

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post #3278 of 7006 Old 05-31-2012, 07:13 AM
 
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Originally Posted by bd2003 View Post

Whatever happens, I hope at least we see some major differentiation in specs between the consoles this time around. Assuming MS takes the middle ground, and Nintendo scrapes the barrel, it'd be great if Sony could offer a true premium experience. The end result would probably just be third parties pushing the fundamentals that dont really take up dev time or money like frame rate, 3D, antialiasing, sound quality and load speed.

A premium experience demands a premium price.

aka, never going to happen. Sony got burned last time thinking their brand was protected, and they're not going to make the same mistake again. Rumor is they've dropped the cell for pretty much more standard components this time around. Probably PowerPC or Sandy Bridge processor.

Both the 720/PS4 won't be going much over $400, especially with the global economy still lagging.

I'm still totally expecting next gen will be looking to do games like BF3 with full shaders / AA @ 1080P 60fps.... but not much more. It be a huge leap for the consoles, but it's not going to wow those with the GFX itch that PC's have expanded into.
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post #3279 of 7006 Old 05-31-2012, 08:21 AM
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Yeah...I know it's unlikely. The only way I see it happening is if they build their platform out to use more than one hardware spec. Which seems equally unlikely.

I wouldn't hesitiate to drop $1000 on a truly high end box. Maybe the PC will eventually figure out how to work well with a TV and eradicate cheating. Also equally unlikely.

Sigh. No one wants my money.

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post #3280 of 7006 Old 05-31-2012, 08:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Goatse View Post

Wii was a success to nintendo but failure for the over all game industry. The games attach rates to Wii compared to the Xbox was something crazy like 7:1. Sure it sold buncha hardware but most family and old folks home only bought it to play wii bowling.

again, people are not accepting reality. everyone somehow thinks that people only bought the Wii for Wii Sports and Wii Fit.

it's very easy for gamers to dismiss the Wii because we perceive things based on our experiences. even the gaming media did not cover the Wii as much as the 360/PS3.

but if you look at NPD numbers, Wii games consistently dominated the sales charts until recently.

even if you look at where the Wii started showing significant decline in 2011, it's still very well represented in games sales:





But if you go further back when the Wii was hot, sales were a good bit higher than the other platforms and went beyond Wii Sports and Wii Fit:

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post #3281 of 7006 Old 05-31-2012, 09:11 AM
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Look again at those sales charts for Wii games. Almost all of those top-selling games are published by Nintendo. The Wii was a major "failure" for most third-party publishers which is why many didn't invest a lot of money or time into their Wii games/ports. And among the small handful of successful third-party titles, Japanese publishers generally had better luck with Wii releases than Western publishers.

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You guys are far overestimating the buying power of Japan and its significance in the marketplace. A distant third is still a distant third. and it only goes to show the minuscule sales for the rest of the world outside the US and Europe.

I still have no clue how you can look at those numbers and call Japan a "distant third" or a "miniscule" games market. It's nonsense. That only makes sense if you're talking about the 360 or Vita. You yourself cited numbers that showed the 3DS selling in equal numbers in Japan and the US.

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post #3282 of 7006 Old 05-31-2012, 09:34 AM
 
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Originally Posted by confidenceman View Post

Look again at those sales charts for Wii games. Almost all of those top-selling games are published by Nintendo. The Wii was a major "failure" for most third-party publishers which is why many didn't invest a lot of money or time into their Wii games/ports.

And that's the bottom line. There's a multitude of reason, but Nintendo didn't make it any easier on 3rd party publisher and devs. Still, they look at the install base and realized they can't afford not to try. The Wii was insanely profitable for Nintendo, not just on the hardware side. But we've already seen them making more of an effort in their WiiU announcements to trend back to 3rd party support.

It remains to be seen if they can repair the damage their licensing model did with the Wii.
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post #3283 of 7006 Old 05-31-2012, 09:42 AM
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And that's the bottom line. There's a multitude of reason, but Nintendo didn't make it any easier on 3rd party publisher and devs. Still, they look at the install base and realized they can't afford not to try. The Wii was insanely profitable for Nintendo, not just on the hardware side. But we've already seen them making more of an effort in their WiiU announcements to trend back to 3rd party support.

It remains to be seen if they can repair the damage their licensing model did with the Wii.

That 3rd party support will never stick around if the console isn't up to par with its competitors. No one is going to be buying cross platform games for it for long if the experience is sub par.

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post #3284 of 7006 Old 05-31-2012, 09:50 AM
 
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That 3rd party support will never stick around if the console isn't up to par with its competitors. No one is going to be buying cross platform games for it for long if the experience is sub par.

Well, I'd say a lot of it was "it's the content stupid". Dumming down a higher end game and adding in some after though motion controls that don't do anything to add to the experience isn't going to work. Yet it was a lot of 3rd party titles. And then if you do make a game just for the Wii, dev'ing to it's unique strengths, how do you justify the ad campaign needed to promote it and inform people about it? Most ad campaigns are for multiplat games now, and even then they can be very, very sparse and micro targeted to keep costs down.

Nintendo makes sure their own releases are more profitable, better marketed, and designed to their consoles strengths. It's not surprising they sell better.
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post #3285 of 7006 Old 05-31-2012, 09:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by confidenceman View Post

Look again at those sales charts for Wii games. Almost all of those top-selling games are published by Nintendo. The Wii was a major "failure" for most third-party publishers which is why many didn't invest a lot of money or time into their Wii games/ports. And among the small handful of successful third-party titles, Japanese publishers generally had better luck with Wii releases than Western publishers.

I still have no clue how you can look at those numbers and call Japan a "distant third" or a "miniscule" games market. It's nonsense. That only makes sense if you're talking about the 360 or Vita. You yourself cited numbers that showed the 3DS selling in equal numbers in Japan and the US.

OMG. I even explained the 3DS numbers and you still deny it. Americans don't buy dedicated portable gaming devices. They buy smartphones, iPods, tablets, laptops, etc. to get their portable gaming fix. There were 5 million 3DS units sold in Japan. Over the same time, there were 40 million iPhone devices sold in the US and the US alone (if you go worldwide, it'd be 70+ million). And that's not counting the legions of Android devices.

And before you say that people buy smartphones for calls and not for games, look at the dollar numbers spent on gaming on the iPhone. It's past the 3DS. Even if all 40 million devices only had 1 game purchase, that's still more than the 3DS which depends on high game prices and high attach rates. And considering that games are so much cheaper on iOS, it's amazing that more money has been spent on iOS gaming than 3DS gaming.

But even though Americans don't buy dedicated portable gaming devices, they still buy more than Japan which mostly buys dedicated portable gaming devices.

And I never said Japan's marketshare was minuscule. I said Japan was a very distant third and everyone after that was minuscule. People were saying that there were big sales in South America, Africa, Australia, etc. C'mon, people.

As for third party... Of course, Nintendo titles dominate. That's the way Nintendo is. Sure, they would've liked more third-party support but they have never bent over backwards to accommodate third parties. They have always been hostile to third parties. In the past, that was okay because the third parties had to crumble to Nintendo's demands in the NES/SNES/N64 days as Nintendo was the dominant player. It wasn't until Sony came in with the PSX and treated third parties like royalty while also making fees and development so much smaller.

But if you look at third party titles, the Just Dance series from Ubisoft rivals CoD in sales. Zumba Fitness (another third party title) dominates as well.

If people just stop talking out of their *#% and use real numbers (and not the fake VGChartz), their arguments would make more sense.

but to get back on topic! E3 is practically here! I just read that a new Gears of War will be announced! good times.
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post #3286 of 7006 Old 05-31-2012, 10:02 AM
 
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When and how did this turn into the "Official USA vs. Japan Thread?"

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post #3287 of 7006 Old 05-31-2012, 10:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by onlysublime View Post

You guys are far overestimating the buying power of Japan and its significance in the marketplace. A distant third is still a distant third. and it only goes to show the minuscule sales for the rest of the world outside the US and Europe.
.

Europe is not a country, Japan is a close third next to the UK. We know why you want to minimize Japan, they hate the 360 and thus you hate them.

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post #3288 of 7006 Old 05-31-2012, 10:25 AM
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Europe is not a country, Japan is a close third next to the UK. We know why you want to minimize Japan, they hate the 360 and thus you hate them.

again, more emotional speak. back up your emotions with something useful.
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post #3289 of 7006 Old 05-31-2012, 10:32 AM
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I just wonder where nintendo is going to be 5 years from now when half of their business (portable) is almost certainly doomed long term, and the other half is probably doomed long term (console).

At least when the Walkman went away, Sony still had the rest of its conglomerate to fall back on.

I guess a software only Nintendo wouldn't be a terrible thing.

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post #3290 of 7006 Old 05-31-2012, 10:58 AM
 
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I just wonder where nintendo is going to be 5 years from now when half of their business (portable) is almost certainly doomed long term, and the other half is probably doomed long term (console).

At least when the Walkman went away, Sony still had the rest of its conglomerate to fall back on.

I guess a software only Nintendo wouldn't be a terrible thing.

And look where Sony is today (financially). PS3/Gaming is just about heir only profitable line.



Innovate, or die. Lots of executives don't care for innovation as long as they can squeeze the lemon and jump ship. RIM is another case study in how to stagger huge market share and innovative technology by refusing to adapt to new market trends and new technological realities.

If you don't change your product lines, someone else will and they'll be breathing down your neck soon enough.

MS did this in the US to Sony with XBL/360 combo.
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post #3291 of 7006 Old 05-31-2012, 11:20 AM
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E3 is about to start.

time to lay the bets on the table? what's everyone thinking software or hardware?

I know a few of you are saying PS4/next Xbox at this E3. what about everything else?

I'm happy to hear a new Gears of War series...
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post #3292 of 7006 Old 05-31-2012, 11:27 AM
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With Jobs gone Apple won't be taking risks, they will play it safe and ride their current success. Eventually their popularity will fade as the innovation dries up.

Nintendo will survive, just as they always have no matter how many times people say they they are doomed. (since the Genesis days I have been hearing this)

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post #3293 of 7006 Old 05-31-2012, 11:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by onlysublime View Post

E3 is about to start.

time to lay the bets on the table? what's everyone thinking software or hardware?

I know a few of you are saying PS4/next Xbox at this E3. what about everything else?

I'm happy to hear a new Gears of War series...

IIRC MS straight out said no way, but Sony announcing the PS4 for next year could still happen.

The only major new IP I'm expecting is what's coming from respawn. It's been long enough, they have to show something. Other than that, probably a ton of sequels and ****** mashups and kart racers. I'm hoping for a few remastered editions of older games, but I can't really think of any in particular I'd like to see either....I just love the idea.

The only sequels I really want to see is what Nintendo has to show. I want to see a real new Mario, not just New Super Mario Bros WiiU 2 (god, what a title). And metroid prime 4. Maybe a Zelda with voice acting. Really, any classic Nintendo IP that's legitimately next gen and not just a throwback.

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post #3294 of 7006 Old 05-31-2012, 11:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by onlysublime View Post

E3 is about to start.

time to lay the bets on the table? what's everyone thinking software or hardware?

I know a few of you are saying PS4/next Xbox at this E3. what about everything else?

I'm happy to hear a new Gears of War series...

Wii U specs will be better than expected. Assassin's Creed 3 will be an eye opener. A minor 3ds revision will be shown with a better battery, no screen scratches, and possibly dual slide pads. Black Ops 2 will be shown on Wii U hardware and it will blow the current console versions away. Zelda HD will be shown and it will hopefully be as impressive as the Twilight Princess introduction was.

Sony, no new hardware will be shown. New PS+ will be a major part of the show as will Last of Us. Games will be their main focus. The Vita will be getting a crapload of console ports, with Black Ops 2 leading the charge (and cloud storage for your profile so your PS3 and Vita files will be cross compatable and cross platform play will be a big push)

Microsoft, Halo 4 for the core and not much else (Minecraft's success will also be put on stage) Kinect and Live's media functions will be the major aspect of the show. Possible Nextbox teaser to offset Nintendo's thunder. Expect PS3 level boasting if they do.

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post #3295 of 7006 Old 05-31-2012, 12:05 PM
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IIRC MS straight out said no way, but Sony announcing the PS4 for next year could still happen.

well, if you're going by official statements (which are only valid until they're not), neither Sony nor Microsoft will announce a new console. I don't hold much value in those statements. They were made a long time ago and market conditions change fast.

Not saying that either Sony or Microsoft will announce but I'm not using their statements as gospel.

http://www.1up.com/news/no-ps4-announcement-e3

Shooting down a report from last week that suggested the PlayStation 4 (and third Xbox) would be announced at this year's E3, Kaz Hirai has denied Sony plans to make any such announcement in June.

Pointing to Sony's dedication to having a 10-year life cycle with its gaming systems, Hirai -- the current chairman of Sony Computer Entertainment who is rumored to soon be Sony's next president -- said there isn't any hurry to bring out a new console. He echoed what was said by SCE president Andrew House, who recently stated Sony is "just entering into this great period for PS3," adding, "I don't think we're contemplating talking about anything to do with future console iterations at this point."

"Andy is absolutely right in that we are not making any announcements at E3," Hirai said at CES, reports the Wall Street Journal. "I've always said a 10-year life cycle for PS3, and there is no reason to go away from that."
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post #3296 of 7006 Old 05-31-2012, 12:07 PM
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E3 2013 is when new consoles are announced and released in Nov for the holidays.
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post #3297 of 7006 Old 05-31-2012, 12:09 PM
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http://m.kotaku.com/5914605/new-xbox...aled-next-week

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post #3298 of 7006 Old 05-31-2012, 12:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PENDRAG0ON View Post

With Jobs gone Apple won't be taking risks, they will play it safe and ride their current success. Eventually their popularity will fade as the innovation dries up.

Nintendo will survive, just as they always have no matter how many times people say they they are doomed. (since the Genesis days I have been hearing this)

People were saying this with a profitable Nintendo. Today it is even more possible with a Nintendo that has lost money for the first time in the over 30 year company. Using the same strategies they used before and now it hasn't fully worked for them with both the yen and dropping the price of the 3DS along with a price drop for the Wii that didn't increase sales.

The 5.0 is here
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post #3299 of 7006 Old 05-31-2012, 12:26 PM
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No way MS and especially Sony for that matter will announce the PS4. It just won't happen and if they did announce it I will be interested of course but scratching my head at how the hell was this part of Kaz plan to get profitable. They simply are not ready to announce the PS4 and for the record I still maintain 2014 release dammit :-)

The 5.0 is here
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post #3300 of 7006 Old 05-31-2012, 12:26 PM
 
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I have a feeling the big guns this E3 with be WiiU showcasing itself and GTA5. Hopefully we get some surprised, but E3 has vastly been scaled back and refocused into the shareholder and industry show it used to be.

A focus on hardware, services and flagship games for publishers with hopefully a few smaller gems shining through. E3 got rid of a lot of it's glitz and glamor the past few years.

When the PS4 is finally announced I'm going to be interested to see what it's called. The number 4 is bad luck in Japanese and Asian cultures and I don't imagine Sony will be keen to call it that with both the cultural and corporate stigma that would create.

So whats that leave? PssU?
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