Microsoft fires the first shot in the "NEXT" generation.... - Page 112 - AVS Forum
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post #3331 of 7006 Old 06-04-2012, 12:22 PM
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Shouldn't we create an E3 topic rather than posting all the content here?

Imagination will often carry us to worlds that never were. But without it we go nowhere.

 

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post #3332 of 7006 Old 06-04-2012, 12:32 PM
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Shouldn't we create an E3 topic rather than posting all the content here?

feel free to create one! I'll join!
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post #3333 of 7006 Old 06-04-2012, 12:37 PM
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Not like MS showed any next gen stuff at E3 this year. Maybe next year.

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post #3334 of 7006 Old 06-04-2012, 01:01 PM
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I missed it; is Kinect a requirement for SmartGlass?

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post #3335 of 7006 Old 06-04-2012, 01:14 PM
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Originally Posted by oktoberrust11 View Post

I missed it; is Kinect a requirement for SmartGlass?

I think Kinect can only augment SmartGlass with voice recognition and some gestures. The bulk of SmartGlass is through your PC, your tablet, or your phone.
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post #3336 of 7006 Old 06-04-2012, 01:24 PM
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Originally Posted by onlysublime View Post

feel free to create one! I'll join!

Done. I also asked a mod to move the discussion posts from here, to there.

Imagination will often carry us to worlds that never were. But without it we go nowhere.

 

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post #3337 of 7006 Old 06-04-2012, 03:16 PM
 
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I will say that as long in the tooth as I feel this gen is...that was some incredibly impressive stuff for such ancient hardware. So much of it comes from increased production quality even if the tech is only marginally improved.

If this is what were getting at the end of this gen, I can't imagine what the end of next gen 5-7 years from now is going to show us.

Be careful, you might accidentally make an argument for a skip rather than a leap for nextboxgen!



I think it's telling these games are getting praise for their visuals, at the same time there was a lot of focus on services and kinect. MS is pretty content with the current money train they're on, and expensive new hardware that pushes limits is not their focus this year and maybe not even next.
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post #3338 of 7006 Old 06-07-2012, 07:06 PM
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WiiU is the real first shot fired in the "Next" generation. And from what I've seen, it's a winner for Nintendo. The controllers have created a lot of buzz. Kids want it. Parents will buy it as long as the price is at parity with XBox 360 and PS3. The curious will buy it. WiiU specs...from what I have seen...are slightly ahead of XBox 360 and PS3 in a few (non critical) areas IMO. It looks like serious fun! And IMO, it will stop Nintendo market share erosion. If WiiU succeeds as I expect it will...NexGen could turn out to be a battle just to hold serve by all 3 Console makers. Profits are just too high for all parties right now. WiiU could be profitable out of the gate...if they get rapid adoption from their Wii base.

Bottom line is this IMO...As someone said above...we are just getting the kind of games that maximizes current gen tech with XBox and PS. WiiU just catches up for Nintendo on the tech side. Their systems are about games and novelty. There is just too much incentive for MS and Sony to milk this gen and let Nintendo ride the point with WiiU in 2013...or even 2014. WiiU is a brilliant launch IMO. It forces MS and Sony way upmarket in NexGen...where the risk of high price tech failure lurks. If Halo 4 is an indicator of what can still be done with the XBox 360...the conversion/adoption rate could be deathly slow for a NexGen launch in 2013 or 2014. And I'm only throwing 2013 out there as a dog bone for those who so desperately want a new console in that timing. I sure would love to see you get at least a trial launch. But as I said earlier...methinks you'll only get E3 type "Beaver Shots" or nothing. I still think XBox Nexus will launch in late 2014. But it also still wouldn't surprise me if it and the PS+ didn't actually happen until 2015-2016. All indications are...wild rumors notwithstanding...is that MS and Sony are totally content letting Nintendo, Mobile and PC gaming take certer stage in 2013...to gauge where the console market and consumer demand really is. And I think that is really smart on their part. A WiiU success doesn't threaten XBox or Sony at all. I know I will buy a WiiU just to check it out (probably in 2014). But it will have no impact on what I do with XBox or PS.
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post #3339 of 7006 Old 06-07-2012, 07:22 PM
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eh....

Yes, Wii U has finally caught up to 360 and PS3. But is that enough? I had fun with the demos at E3. But none of them screamed next gen. You couldn't tell these were any better than what's out for the other systems. Sure, the games will get better. But if you're counting on these early games to make the system an awesome seller, then you're in for a wait.

The Nintendo diehards will already be buying the Wii U. That's never been in question. But what made the Wii sell like crazy was it got people who would have never bought a game system to buy it. These are least likely to upgrade to a new system unless there's something truly compelling and unique. and I'm not sure a touchscreen controller is truly unique. You use the GamePad and you start thinking, this is kind of like playing with a tablet.

And you say you're buying a Wii U to just check it out. A lot of people do not make an impulse buy for a system that is $350+.

I will say this... NIntendo really brought out a ton of booth girls... it felt like there was a booth babe for every 10 people and they're practically on top of you as you're playing...

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post #3340 of 7006 Old 06-07-2012, 07:53 PM
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The biggest issue I see Nintendo dealing with is online. I get the whole streaming capabilities but if the online is half ass they are not going to get current gen owners to pick the Wii U version because it may look slightly better and have exclusive tablet features.

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post #3341 of 7006 Old 06-07-2012, 08:08 PM
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Onlysublime...is that your mugshot in the picture between the 4 ladies? Something must have really piqued everyone's interest. For Nintendo...I think that is enough. That is exactly my point. They had the lowest tech approach with the Wii. But they had the best novelty item in motion control. WIth them its mostly about games...novelty and families/kids. And I suspect WiiU will prove to be a winner for them with their audience.

I did indeed say I would check it out. But much later than sooner. It will not be an impulse buy. I will more than likely just use my grandkids unit to see how it works. They will undoubtedly be XMas 2012 adopters. I'm having way too much fun with my new PC right now. And I will have to work through a pretty big backlog of upcoming XBox 360 games first in 2013. For example...Halo 4, Darsiders 2, Prey 2 and a few others. They will take me well into 2014.
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post #3342 of 7006 Old 06-07-2012, 08:11 PM
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Kind of crazy to me that anyone could think it's going to be a brilliant launch with such a shameful showing on the software side. As one of those Nintendo fans...they couldn't even sell me. What they showed clearly didn't have the mass appeal of the Wii either. Dunno where that leaves them next year when the focus turns to the next console launch. By then they might have some respectable software, but is it really going to matter?

This has dreamcast written all over it. It wasn't safe to say that before we saw what they have up their sleeve for the next year. But seeing how weak the showing was....I dunno what happens next. This could be the last nintendo console. I really do think it's that dire. They made some severe miscalculations over the past few years.

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post #3343 of 7006 Old 06-07-2012, 08:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mboojigga View Post

The biggest issue I see Nintendo dealing with is online. I get the whole streaming capabilities but if the online is half ass they are not going to get current gen owners to pick the Wii U version because it may look slightly better and have exclusive tablet features.

they needed to show more of what online gaming is like on the Wii U.

because the demo clip for the Sunday show was just so sad and out of touch with how gamers play online. who pauses a game, goes to write a bunch of text messages. wait for people to type out more messages. goes back to game. still frustrated, he pauses the game again, docks his controller to start up a video chat, gets some tips, and then goes back to the game????

in today's online world, he and his friends are playing together, helping each other out, and talking to each other. we don't stop the game, type some messages, start the game, pause, more messages. it's a lot easier to say something in 4 seconds in real time during the game than doing this snail pace communication. and let's say his friends aren't around for him to play with, he should still be able to talk to them. the next gen should have Sony and Nintendo catch up and provide crossgame party chat like on the 360.
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post #3344 of 7006 Old 06-07-2012, 08:16 PM
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Onlysublime...is that your mugshot in the picture between the 4 ladies?

oh heck no! I'm the creepy guy sneaking pics of all the ladies... tongue.gif

I actually forgot what game is being played there. she just looked so cute so I had to take a pic of her.
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post #3345 of 7006 Old 06-08-2012, 12:55 AM
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I haven't watched any game demos of the WiiU but over on Engadget they played a video on the system where you had the same image on the pad, but you could turn the pad 360 degrees and change the viewpoint. I thought that was pretty amazing. I'm still wondering how they accomplished that, technically. Like what the hell kind of camera takes the video. I'm still not sold on a WiiU yet, and I was never sold on the original Wii. Played at a friend's house, had a small amount of fun, but it wasn't enough that I'd go buy one.

Playstation has the games I'm actually excited for.

I've had enough of the same s***, over and over, year after year. Some one posted a while back that gamers don't want new and innovative games. That's EXACTLY what I want.




Oh and that nintendo girl is cute. The bangs thing is popular right now, and I'm not complaining at all.

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post #3346 of 7006 Old 06-08-2012, 08:00 AM
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http://video.msnbc.msn.com/in-game/47730398/#47730398

"Kind of crazy to me that anyone could think it's going to be a brilliant launch with such a shameful showing on the software side. As one of those Nintendo fans...they couldn't even sell me. What they showed clearly didn't have the mass appeal of the Wii either. Dunno where that leaves them next year when the focus turns to the next console launch."

Well...I simply disagree with you. So I guess that makes me "crazy". A lot of other people do too. So I guess they are equally "crazy". With that being said...the link above gives added insight into the topic. Many on this thread have said in the past...that most consoles launch without a plethora of new titles. I agree with them but still say big freaking deal. The popularity of Nintendo's first party software...and anticipation of new versions will hook parents and kids alike. You forget...we in this forum are the 1%ers as far as avid hard core...on-line...multiplayer gaming is concerned. Nintendo is decidely general gaming market. It's Hard core for kids aged 5-13. And parents like it that way. Nintendo has a built in critical success model (Kids/parents/library) that no other console maker quite has. For example...I am a Halo loyalist. But I can get something very similar on PS3 or PC. So I am decidely not as loyal to MS as I am to Nintendo for my grandkids. They want Zelda, Mario, Donkey Kong et al. And both I and their parents want them to have it. And we want them to enjoy it in HD as fully as we enjoy our HD content. That's the main reason why WiiU will succeed IMO. All of us grew up with those Nintendo games. They are part of our identities. And we gleefully pass them on to our kids and grandkids. WiiU is just the next smart transition for that.

Dreamcast? I say dream on. If anything has Dreamcast written all over it...it's an expensive new XBox or PS launch in 2013 with only 1%-5% demand for it. And I say this as an avid XBox fanboy! At least Nintendo has the pent up mass market demand for a better version of Wii...that's at parity with the XBox 360 and PS3...and exploits current HD display tech. Hence WiiU. I say brilliant. You say no thanks. And I don't think you are "crazy" for saying it. It's just your call...from your pov.

I do get your lust for XBox Nexus in 2013. It would be great if it happened for early adopters like yourself. Doesn't matter that I think that timing is "Pie in the Sky". And I don't think your passionate yearning for it to happen is remotely crazy. In fact, I enjoy reading your comments because of your passion for your pov. It often keeps this thread moving into the future...that we all want to get too. But I say...riddle me this on your prediction for WiiU. If it bombs in 2012-2013 as you predict...an XBox or PS launch in the same period would be disastrous. If WiiU is indeed "Dreamcast"...you won't see your beloved XBox Nexus before 2016. More likely 2018 if you are right. MS has "Mice Nuts" on risk. They will quickly retreat into a murky future and continue to milk the XBox 360 with line extension improvements and better games.
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post #3347 of 7006 Old 06-08-2012, 08:19 AM
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But what was the game that was doing it for you? I'm a big Nintendo fan, but I wanted to see nintendo's next gen (or rather, current gen). But I didn't see it. It seemed creatively bankrupt to me. What I saw looked visually barely improved, gameplay not improved at all. Nothing about it inspired me to run out and buy it. They could have pulled that off with something as lazy as a Metroid, Mario or Zelda that looked like something out of a current gen. Instead we got pikmin, which barely looked better than the GameCube titles on a visual and gameplay level. We got a sequel to a remake, which no longer has the nostalgia value it used to (NSMBU). We got several mini game collections that look at about the level of wii play (a controller pack in). I mean, last years Zelda tech demo is more exciting and looks better than anything they showed here. The level of excitement just isn't there, and not just with me. Every journalist that saw what I saw is saying the same thing....it was a poor showing. You're literally the only person I've encountered that is still a true believer.

I get what you're saying at a hypothetical level...but now we have specifics. They can get away with a lackluster launch when they're riding high and their current gen is still going strong. But when their current gen is dead, the competition is closing around them...how can you just write off what we just saw?

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post #3348 of 7006 Old 06-08-2012, 09:27 AM
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"I get what you're saying at a hypothetical level...but now we have specifics. They can get away with a lackluster launch when they're riding high and their current gen is still going strong. But when their current gen is dead, the competition is closing around them...how can you just write off what we just saw?"

BD...The same can be said of MS or Sony whenever they launch. Nintendo's software will catch up pretty fast. Especially the first party titles. It has too. While I view WiiU as the real first NexGen shot. I don't think it is a true NexGen console. I don't think Nintendo does either. I bet they view it as just an upgraded Wii. One that is capable of fully optimizing current display tech and other media opportunities. It has a novel new controller. But I believe Nintendo knows what all of us on this forum and the gaming press like to gloss over. And that is..80% or more of.the game console market is already satisfied with what is already available. And the basic Wii is extremely vulnerable in the current market. Nintendo could care less about XBox Nexus or PS Nexus. Because its market is much more fixed as a mass market staple. It just has to have relevant technology and rough application parity. So essentially they just launched WiiU as an HD line extension to the Wii line. That's why I called it sheer marketing "Brilliance". It doesn't need to be better. It doesn't need to have splashy new 3rd party games. It just needs to be capable of handling them going forward...as its Wii customer base matures. It doesn't even need a massive new launch budget. It can market WiiU's uniqueness right within the context of the current Wii and DS platforms. That is a very high profit yield approach to NexGen. And it is the smart route for Nintendo to tke IMO.

Earlier in this thread I opined that MS could be wise to take a simple line extension approach with the XBox 360...called it the "Uber XBox 360". And focus on a true Next Generation console in 2016-2020 when the market may be more favorable. Many rebutted that such a strategy would fragment the XBox market. I'm still not sure that I agree with that rebuttal. Because it looks like MS intends to keep XBox 360 relevant well beyond 2013. And Mr Kendricks in the link above shares that pov with his comments. He opined that the Nexus Boxes from MS is "a few years away"...and it will coexist with the XBox 360. If he is right...it is just a line extension strategy...whether we all like it or not.

As far as competition goes. I believe Nintendo is much more concerned about market share erosion to their library from cell phone games...i-Phones...and tablets. Hence the brilliant move with 3DS and the WiiU with tablet controller. It keeps their console line competitive with XBox 360, PS3...the Nexus from both. And it targets mobile gaming in a unique way. I think they will continue to evolve, converge and grow the controller use with their mobile platforms in the future. They don't ever need to be as good as MS or Sony in Online multiplayer gaming. Because their core audience is more single player dominant. MS on the other hand needs to keep a wary eye on PC gaming and alternate media...like streaming and Cloud gaming. Just my take on this.
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post #3349 of 7006 Old 06-08-2012, 10:23 AM
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I dunno man...I think you're still too caught up in hypotheticals and speculation, ignoring basically everything we just saw at E3. The wii was propelled to success by a launch that was unlike anything that has ever been seen before. Maybe they can still eke it out for a little while even with a underwhelming launch, but a poor showing this year IS going to hurt them. You're not going to see the wii U on the today show. They won't be sold out with lines around the block for months. There's just no mass appeal here like there was with wii sports. Hypothetically, before we saw what little they had to show, what you say might still hold water. It just rings hollow now. You seem to be aware of that given how you basically dodged the real question.

They've squandered their golden opportunity...it's going to be an uphill battle from here on out, even taking whatever competition there is out of the equation.

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post #3350 of 7006 Old 06-08-2012, 10:59 AM
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What I am saying BD is all Nintendo has to do for the next 5 years is hold serve and grow in smaller incremental chunks. WiiU...3DS...library compatibility with Wii...exciting new first party titles...good 3rd party buyin whereever they can get it...Low production costs on WiiU/Wii...low running costs rates...minimum launch cost burn rates and a happy base with kids/parents/grannies will help them achieve it. I betcha they will get holiday placement on media shows and other PR freebies to goose holiday sales too. They will be hyped as the new NexGen by a gullible MSM that is trained by youth to be as Pavlovian as it gets on "coolness factor". And trust me on this one...When holiday roles around...WiiU will have a serious Coolness Factor with kids. If Kids were allowed to attend E3 instead of school...I think you would have been shocked by what you saw. I know that is a hypothetical. But in the world of Nintendo...it is the "hold card". Anyway...gotta go.

But my daughter just called...and I mentioned WiiU to her. She said she hated the name WiiU. Whined about the possible price. But it is already number 1 on her christmas list. The 3 kids have already struck with her and my son-in-law!
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post #3351 of 7006 Old 06-11-2012, 07:47 PM
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Interesting take on total immersion, virtual reality 3D Goggles. I still think this approach in NexGen could be the hidden gem of them all if executed right. It has potential to just bypass a console...link with a small mobile device & game controller...and immerse oneself in the Cloud...within a 3D display world that is a perceptual equivalent of a massive IMAXX environment. They can't bring this tech out fast enough IMO. Whatever happened to the Sony VR Goggles?

http://www.ingame.msnbc.msn.com/technology/ingame/video-game-company-brings-animated-film-life-823237#/technology/ingame/video-games-its-calm-storm-819879

Excerpt:
"Hit: "Doom 3" virtual reality headset - The oddest surprise of E3 wasn't a big announcement but a small one. John Carmack and Bethesda were showing off a homebrew pair of 3-D virtual reality goggles that will work with "Doom 3 BFG" when it launches in the fall. This head-mounted display -– which tracks the movement of your head so that you can literally look around inside the game -- felt quicker and more useful than a mouse. I have never had a gadget make me feel so immersed in a game."
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post #3352 of 7006 Old 06-11-2012, 08:54 PM
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Head tracking sounds pretty awesome, but the last time I used a head mounted display, back in the 90s when they were first coming out, I remember I had fatigue from focusing on an image that close to my eyes.

I'm not a huge proponent of head mounted displays, kind of indifferent really, unlike 3D, which I loathe. But if that's something that does happen, I'd like to see one encompass your entire field of view, all the way to your peripheral.

So this device, does the headtracking replace the aiming entirely? Probably get a tired neck from looking all over the place, especially with a helmet strapped to your face. I remember in highschool the exercise gym had this neck machine that you'd lift weights with your neck muscles, have to get to the gym and beef up my neck.

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post #3353 of 7006 Old 06-11-2012, 09:00 PM
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The fact that I have customers constantly complaining about wearing 3D glasses at the movies and in their own home, I doubt this will be something that people will be clamoring for.

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post #3354 of 7006 Old 06-12-2012, 12:08 PM
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I know I wouldn't buy into a normal size screen, that replicates a large size movie screen head mount. But, like I said, if they come up with a display that used your entire field of view, it's a different story.

Just think about how you play certain games. They are extremely limited in how they display by using a fraction of your FOV. Racing games and FPS would change a lot if you could see around you.

Head tracking in a racing game would be pretty simple, but in a FPS I think it would be a lot more complicated. Using a mouse or a controller, you aim and change the view all at once. But my idea of headtracking would just be used to change your view so you could see around you. How then do you aim with a mouse or controller when you're view is moving. The spot you wanted to aim at wouldn't be the same as you move your head around. Maybe it's not as hard as I'm imagining it to be though.

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post #3355 of 7006 Old 06-12-2012, 06:23 PM
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Virtual Reality Headset...Meet Virtual Reality Glove. None of this will matter in the Next Generation Game consoles. But when you think of what the possibilities are with motion control technology, combined with this stuff and Ultra HD tech a few generations out...it could be lights out gaming. Gaming could mimic reality in a lot of interesting ways. Real transformational tech is starting to seem much closer than most of us imagined in the life of this thread. This kind of stuff was just white paper theory when I was a grad student in Cybernetics at UW in the 1970's. Our lab did collaborative research with MIT and Cal Tech on early NASA projects to replace big industrial claws...joints...appendages...and screws with cybernetic devices...that looked and felt like real human interfaces...in orbital and distant terrestrial settings. It's just amazing to see how far this stuff has actually evolved in military, Industrial and consumer sectors. Sort of like 1000 years worth of Knowledge, information and skill, condensed down into a packed 100 year cycle. Then rendered into a game or toy for all of us to play with like kids. Makes me feel good to know I was part of an early stage with a lot of the thinking behind it.. Albeit, an ignimonious, lab rat, Research Assistant grunt at the time. I bet my Grand kids, will be looking back at our NexGen debates with the same nostalgia we look back at Space Invaders and Asteroids when this stuff really comes to bright in their adulthood.

http://www.futureoftech.msnbc.msn.com/technology/futureoftech/mit-glove-lets-wearers-move-virtual-objects-825341#/technology/futureoftech/

NexGen...No. 2-3 NexGens away...Yes. A major convergence is happening that will change everything in gaming over the next 30 years. They sure won't think real 1080p 60 on thin panel LCD's is a big deal then.
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post #3356 of 7006 Old 06-12-2012, 10:46 PM
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I was so impressed with this video of a robotic "hand" I had to save the link. Blows my mind what this thing can do.

Nothing at all to do with gaming.

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post #3357 of 7006 Old 06-13-2012, 10:54 AM
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Neat stuiff YRD. Now you see why global corporations are starting to seriously talk about deep space mining of asteroids. Master Chief may be closer to us than we think. Especially in the virtual-Robotic cybernetic world. Right now the human body is the limiting factor. But we are rapidly approaching a stage where human beings can be genetically enhanced to optimize such technology. And guess where we humans are being trained to imagine such Cybernetic interfaced human/machine interactions. You got it....Videogames. Don't you just know the military and larger scientific coimmunity watches our online multiplayer escapades with enormous interest. A gamers visionary and tactile reaction time is off the charts relative to the general population. Those tactile sensors can be calibrated to create feedback delays with the brain which mimics real time. Sort of like the feedback delays incorporated in luxury automobiles. They make you feel like you are comfortably cruising at 40 MPH while you are actually going 80-90 MPH. So I wouldn't say gaming is totally out of the picture. Perhaps a different kind of gaming in the future. Remember the Boxing Robot movie with Hugh Jackman a few years ago? That type of gaming is what I am talking about near term. Simple at first. But as nanotechnology evolves...the potential is limitless in the type of pseudo virtual worlds that can be created for gaming.

Welcome to the Matrix folks. It makes for a good story. But the Wachowski Bros already told it in the last decade. We may be living through its creation and just calling it XBox 360...PS3...WiiU...NexGen...etc...etc...etc.
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post #3358 of 7006 Old 06-16-2012, 06:55 AM
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So.....in case everyone was wondering what MS has planned for the Xbox 720, and for the next 4 years, in excruciating detail....here you go!

http://www.scribd.com/doc/92821757/XBox-720-9-24-Checkpoint-Draft-1

Apparently this is from 2010, and it's pretty high level. But the legit factor is pretty high. The specs seem pretty solid too. Sounds like everything I was hoping for.

3 CPUs! The main one for apps/games is 6-8 core ARM/x86. Another, smaller one, always on for system apps (dual core). And the Xbox 360 soc (3 core) for backwards compat. Main GPU is DX11.1 capable. Secondary CPU also has its own GPU. 4GB system ram. 32mb or more of edram. Two levels of flash cache (adios load times!). Blu ray. Hard drive. USB 3. Gig Ethernet. Dual 1080p decoding and encoding. The entire system is even designed to be scalable in core count/frequency over time (YES!!).

Targeted at 8x the power of the 360 - so your standard, large upgrade between consoles, not a weak upgrade as some suspected.

There is a LOT more in that document than just specs. Info on kinect 2, cloud plans, even alternate reality glasses called Fortaleza (think google glasses).

2013, $299.



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post #3359 of 7006 Old 06-16-2012, 07:08 AM
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A good portion of it sounds like wishful thinking.

I guess only time will tell what we get from MS.

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post #3360 of 7006 Old 06-16-2012, 07:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aaronwt View Post

A good portion of it sounds like wishful thinking.

I guess only time will tell what we get from MS.

Yeah, the whole glasses thing seems really far out to me. The actual console itself sounds ambitious yet reasonable.

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