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post #361 of 7006 Old 03-27-2011, 08:30 PM
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Originally Posted by barrelbelly View Post

Warning: This is going to be long. But hopefully it will give us all better and balanced insight into the Blu-Ray versus CHBDVD/HDDVD option MS may be evaluating in their nexgen console. So bare with me YRD...


My comment about finding news wasn't discounting the fact that HD 51g existed I was just trying to find a source from the wikipedia info. I can't find anything other than "it's been invented". Now I know wikipedia is infallible but I wanted to find a different source/additional info. Besides that, the info is from 2008.


My doubts with MS using something other than BR is the fact that they would have to try and establish a new type of media. Most disc pressers already have the BR equipment for PS3 games.

If they go with the new triple or more layer HDDVD they need new equipment.

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post #362 of 7006 Old 03-27-2011, 09:20 PM
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Originally Posted by Yrd View Post

My comment about finding news wasn't discounting the fact that HD 51g existed I was just trying to find a source from the wikipedia info. I can't find anything other than "it's been invented". Now I know wikipedia is infallible but I wanted to find a different source/additional info. Besides that, the info is from 2008.


My doubts with MS using something other than BR is the fact that they would have to try and establish a new type of media. Most disc pressers already have the BR equipment for PS3 games.

If they go with the new triple or more layer HDDVD they need new equipment.

You missed the part that the same plants that manufacture DVD can do HD-DVD.

That's because the HD-DVD format utilizes manufacturing techniques very similar to those used for the current generation of DVDs. Translation: Third-party duplication houses won't have to retool their factories significantly to make HD-DVDs a reality. That means that HD-DVD discs likely will be the first to market by at least several months, probably by the end of 2005.

http://www.supermediastore.com/artic...s-hd-dvd-media

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post #363 of 7006 Old 03-27-2011, 11:34 PM
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Originally Posted by mboojigga View Post

You missed the part that the same plants that manufacture DVD can do HD-DVD.

That's because the HD-DVD format utilizes manufacturing techniques very similar to those used for the current generation of DVDs. Translation: Third-party duplication houses won't have to retool their factories significantly to make HD-DVDs a reality. That means that HD-DVD discs likely will be the first to market by at least several months, probably by the end of 2005.

http://www.supermediastore.com/artic...s-hd-dvd-media

No I didn't miss that, I said "triple or more layer" which, I believe, needs different equipment. Both to make it and to use it.

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post #364 of 7006 Old 03-28-2011, 12:06 AM
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Originally Posted by Yrd View Post


No I didn't miss that, I said "triple or more layer" which, I believe, needs different equipment. Both to make it and to use it.

Well it is now 2011 vs 2005. Maybe this is one of those projects that MS has been working on

The 5.0 is here
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post #365 of 7006 Old 03-28-2011, 07:26 AM
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Originally Posted by pennhunter View Post

I don't think this console generation really has a loser, 48 million consoles isn't bad. I agree with Daekwan though, who cares how many consoles Sony sells in Japan. Years ago Sony fans always pointed to how great the PS3 was going to be "in the future". I think we are now at the point where the future is irrelevant, it's not going to affect MS or Nintendo sales.

I will buy a PS4 in the first year of it's release though, before they start removing features.

I've never understood the Japanese argument, especially considering it comes from those who live here in the US. Years ago it mattered when Japanese dev's made most of the games and Sony of course was the hardware leader. But the 360 has distanced itself in a way that appeals to me more than any console ever has. I have undoubtly gamed more on my 360 than anything I've previously owned. And mostly because it has the games I like.. Shooters & Sports made by American companies, who understand what Americans like.. kinda like a muscle car. Just in my living room.

Japanese games always felt weird to me.. from the too popular "All your base belong to us".. to after 20+ years, I still cant figure out what the hell Ken or Ryu is saying in street fighter when they do their special moves. Even as a big car nut, the only way I even found out a GT-R existed is because of GT the videogame. But it was the 80's & 90's videogaming from Japan ran supreme. The last decade has been very different though. 2K & EA Sports have made the best sports games I've ever played. Rockstar, Bungie, IW and even Treyarch has made my favourite shooters. I dont know the devs for Crackdown & Saints Row.. but I've always like those too. And my favourite racing game of all time is no longer the GT series.. its still Project Gotham. And yes I have a PS3 and GT5.. and GT5 is boring as hell.

In reality most of the extremely popular games are available on both systems, so you dont technically have to choose. But ALL of the games I've come to love are available on the 360. It also helps I like the 360 controller better and the vast majority of my friends also have a 360. The 360 is simply where I come to game. The weird part is I actually use my PS3 more than 360. But as a media player. Its amazing, it streams everything thanks to PS3 media server, and it doesnt have issues with file formats. The interface for controlling media even works better on the PS3. But all of that has little to do with gaming.

The PS3 to me, is my poor man's HTPC. The 360 is my videogame console.

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post #366 of 7006 Old 03-28-2011, 07:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yrd View Post

No I didn't miss that, I said "triple or more layer" which, I believe, needs different equipment. Both to make it and to use it.

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Originally Posted by mboojigga View Post

Well it is now 2011 vs 2005. Maybe this is one of those projects that MS has been working on

Does it really matter 2x or 3x layer?

Look at the PC world. Are the most popular or advanced games there really using 50GB's of storage. While the PS3 can 'brag' it can play games up to 50GB in size.. the reality is the devs are using that space for uncompressed objects and audio. The 50GB games are no longer or deeper in gameplay and complexity, than games 20% of its size.

I agree that DVD is pushed to the limit on current systems. I agree DVD is not enough storage for next generation. But I disagree that 50GB is necessary. I believe 20-25GB is enough space to accomplish what nextgen is capable of. Thats still 3-4x the storage capacity of a single DVD.

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post #367 of 7006 Old 03-28-2011, 07:50 AM
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Originally Posted by Daekwan View Post

Does it really matter 2x or 3x layer?

Look at the PC world. Are the most popular or advanced games there really using 50GB's of storage. While the PS3 can 'brag' it can play games up to 50GB in size.. the reality is the devs are using that space for uncompressed objects and audio. The 50GB games are no longer or deeper in gameplay and complexity, than games 20% of its size.

I agree that DVD is pushed to the limit on current systems. I agree DVD is not enough storage for next generation. But I disagree that 50GB is necessary. I believe 20-25GB is enough space to accomplish what nextgen is capable of. Thats still 3-4x the storage capacity of a single DVD.

With you on this. A double layer 30GB HD-DVD disc is more than enough for 99% of games next gen. It would be nice to have 51GB as an option (720 able to play them) so if a developer does go beyond 30GB I don't have to switch discs. They could easily get around this if they let you store multiple disc games to the HDD, and the 1st disc is the key disc to playing the stored data. I never understood why they didn't do that this gen.

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post #368 of 7006 Old 03-28-2011, 08:30 AM
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Originally Posted by Yrd View Post

My comment about finding news wasn't discounting the fact that HD 51g existed I was just trying to find a source from the wikipedia info. I can't find anything other than "it's been invented". Now I know wikipedia is infallible but I wanted to find a different source/additional info. Besides that, the info is from 2008.


My doubts with MS using something other than BR is the fact that they would have to try and establish a new type of media. Most disc pressers already have the BR equipment for PS3 games.

If they go with the new triple or more layer HDDVD they need new equipment.

The equipment is already in place in China and the US. The existing DVD equipment can be modified very cheaply to press those discs. Plus the capacity to do all of MS' CHBDVD game software is in place in China CHBDVD/DVD production facilities right now. Your concern is not a barrier to entry for MS or its developers at all. Plus every single USA DVD producer would ramp up production for this in a Texas minute if they knew MS was in the CHBDVD/DVD game for keeps with the XBox and PC. You are way over thinking BlU Ray barriers for MS. The only new disk that may require a major new investment would be the Pioneer 1TB disc. And again, Producers would belly up to the bar if they knew MS and Blu-Ray Group would support it.

Plus you're missing the most important thing. We consumers need difference, diversity of format and competition to keep prices affordable for us. I cheer for the success of Blu-Ray and the PS3. I also hope MS goes in a completely different disc direction with its new XBox.
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post #369 of 7006 Old 03-28-2011, 08:31 AM
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Originally Posted by Daekwan View Post

I've never understood the Japanese argument, especially considering it comes from those who live here in the US. Years ago it mattered when Japanese dev's made most of the games and Sony of course was the hardware leader. But the 360 has distanced itself in a way that appeals to me more than any console ever has. I have undoubtly gamed more on my 360 than anything I've previously owned. And mostly because it has the games I like.. Shooters & Sports made by American companies, who understand what Americans like.. kinda like a muscle car. Just in my living room.

Japanese games always felt weird to me.. from the too popular "All your base belong to us".. to after 20+ years, I still cant figure out what the hell Ken or Ryu is saying in street fighter when they do their special moves. Even as a big car nut, the only way I even found out a GT-R existed is because of GT the videogame. But it was the 80's & 90's videogaming from Japan ran supreme. The last decade has been very different though. 2K & EA Sports have made the best sports games I've ever played. Rockstar, Bungie, IW and even Treyarch has made my favourite shooters. I dont know the devs for Crackdown & Saints Row.. but I've always like those too. And my favourite racing game of all time is no longer the GT series.. its still Project Gotham. And yes I have a PS3 and GT5.. and GT5 is boring as hell.

In reality most of the extremely popular games are available on both systems, so you dont technically have to choose. But ALL of the games I've come to love are available on the 360. It also helps I like the 360 controller better and the vast majority of my friends also have a 360. The 360 is simply where I come to game. The weird part is I actually use my PS3 more than 360. But as a media player. Its amazing, it streams everything thanks to PS3 media server, and it doesnt have issues with file formats. The interface for controlling media even works better on the PS3. But all of that has little to do with gaming.

The PS3 to me, is my poor man's HTPC. The 360 is my videogame console.

The only reason you should care is because a Japanese or European sold console is still a sold console. It makes the company money, which in turn makes them stronger, which gives them more flexibility in giving you the features and games you want added later.

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post #370 of 7006 Old 03-28-2011, 08:38 AM
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Originally Posted by mboojigga View Post

Well it is now 2011 vs 2005. Maybe this is one of those projects that MS has been working on

MS already publicly admitted continuing development of HDDVD with the chinese CHBDVD program in 2008. I don't think MS has even been evasive about their nexgen drive intentions. They have ignored Blu-Ray for the XBox and PC. Just like Apple has. And they have continued a development program of HDDVD along with Toshiba in China. When it's all said and done. I believe HDDVD is going to have a life trend similar to Quad audio. Quadraphonics died a painful death as an audio medium. BUt found a longer pair of legs with the merger of video with audio via Dolby and DTS. Similarly I think MS sees HDDVD and HD-i as the bridge between their XBox Live community and PC based Windows Live community.
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post #371 of 7006 Old 03-28-2011, 08:47 AM
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Originally Posted by mbyrnes View Post

With you on this. A double layer 30GB HD-DVD disc is more than enough for 99% of games next gen. It would be nice to have 51GB as an option (720 able to play them) so if a developer does go beyond 30GB I don't have to switch discs. They could easily get around this if they let you store multiple disc games to the HDD, and the 1st disc is the key disc to playing the stored data. I never understood why they didn't do that this gen.

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The only reason you should care is because a Japanese or European sold console is still a sold console. It makes the company money, which in turn makes them stronger, which gives them more flexibility in giving you the features and games you want added later.

I agree with both of you. But I think the die has already been cast on this one. And it will be the CHBDVD format. And it is based on the newer 51g HDDVD standard. I'm sure they would go 30g for the MS system if MS spec'd it that way. But either way, they already have the hardware and software production capacity in place to do both very inexpensively.
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post #372 of 7006 Old 03-28-2011, 08:51 AM
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If Xbox can win North America and Europe they win the generation. Japan is just a small piece of the pie these days. It will be hard for Xbox to ever overtake the two Japanese companies. If the Chinese market can be tapped without the Chinese Government blocking everything, Japan becomes unimportant to MS. By the end of the next console gen China should be a large market. China and Japan don't care for each other so MS should be able to win that market without a lot of help.

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post #373 of 7006 Old 03-28-2011, 09:03 AM
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If MS uses CHBDVD in its NexGen console, it will pretty much lock up China. Because CHDVD uses HD-i.
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post #374 of 7006 Old 03-28-2011, 09:15 AM
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Originally Posted by barrelbelly View Post

If MS uses CHBDVD in its NexGen console, it will pretty much lock up China. Because CHDVD uses HD-i.

because Chinese actually pay for movies and software. haha
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post #375 of 7006 Old 03-28-2011, 09:34 AM
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because Chinese actually pay for movies and software. haha

And just exactly what do you know about the Chinese other than a crude stereotype? Here is a fact about them my friend. They have the fastest growing middle class in the entire world. Their middle class population size is estimated to become over 350 million people strong within the next 25 years! that alone is bigger than the size of the entire US population. And they will do what most middle class populations do. They will spend and consume in conspicuous abundance. And yes, they will watch a lot of movies on their CHBDVD players, HDTVs and PCs. And yes they will pay for them on the legit market and black market. Just like we do here in the USA!
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post #376 of 7006 Old 03-28-2011, 11:31 AM
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You guys are all saying 30g is enough. It's just like the historical quote "everything that's been invented has been invented." PS3 thought 256mb ram and a 2x BR drive was enough.

Why limit the device.

The fact that MS supplies the HD-I interface for CHBD movies has nothing to do with games. The fact that CHBD is china's new HD movie medium has no bearing on the US market for movies either, US is settled on BR.

The US is where the money is for xbox. Why fight the market, for a petty software rivalry on movie discs. US (or any other country for that matter) won't be switching to CHBD movies.

We shall see, the decisions MS and Sony make on their systems may turn me away. Before the Wii, I would buy every game system available. I liked games on every platform. I really want to play the Wii's Blaster Master remake, but I'm not spending $200 to play a $15 game. We're talking about $400 next gen systems with streaming only and no disc drive or no ability to play movies. This will have a big factor on my choice in system, next generation.

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post #377 of 7006 Old 03-28-2011, 11:59 AM
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Originally Posted by Yrd View Post

You guys are all saying 30g is enough.

and you're assuming that they won't be able to figure out a way to put more info into less space.

HD DVD proved they could with VC-1, while BD was putting out 25g of "Flying Artifacts" (still using MPEG-4).

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post #378 of 7006 Old 03-28-2011, 12:09 PM
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Why is 50GB not enough? Lets just go for a cool 1TB game while we at it.

Point is, while more space is needed. There comes a point where its definitely "enough" for one generation. Even this generation DVD has done just fine.. and DVD was technically last generation's storage format.

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post #379 of 7006 Old 03-28-2011, 12:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Yrd View Post

My doubts with MS using something other than BR is the fact that they would have to try and establish a new type of media. Most disc pressers already have the BR equipment for PS3 games.

If they go with the new triple or more layer HDDVD they need new equipment.

This is the least of concerns for MS.

One of the reasons for not using BR is for implementing a new physical DRM on any optical disc. I have a strong suspicion that MS will implement some sort of hardware based DRM format for any new distribution method.

This would mean new equipment no matter what format they select.
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post #380 of 7006 Old 03-28-2011, 12:45 PM
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heres one of the ideas i had brought, we get rid of the disc's themselves. therefore developers are not restricted to their physical capacities. i say bring back the compact flash cards yo! j/k, lets not use anything proprietary (sony's shyt sticks), but something common. usb sticks, SD cards, etc. as the games become more massive in scope and depth the cards are upgraded. if needed it downloads half the other game, that way you physicaly have a game, but need to connect online to verify purchase, then youre able to download the rest of it onto your "Game Card" (patent pending bytches).

each system will have at least 1TB hdd (they're cheap people!) built in. after you verify purchase you can install the game onto your hdd. still need to plug in each games' stick in order to play.


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post #381 of 7006 Old 03-28-2011, 01:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Yrd View Post

You guys are all saying 30g is enough. It's just like the historical quote "everything that's been invented has been invented." PS3 thought 256mb ram and a 2x BR drive was enough.

Why limit the device.

The fact that MS supplies the HD-I interface for CHBD movies has nothing to do with games. The fact that CHBD is china's new HD movie medium has no bearing on the US market for movies either, US is settled on BR.

The US is where the money is for xbox. Why fight the market, for a petty software rivalry on movie discs. US (or any other country for that matter) won't be switching to CHBD movies.

We shall see, the decisions MS and Sony make on their systems may turn me away. Before the Wii, I would buy every game system available. I liked games on every platform. I really want to play the Wii's Blaster Master remake, but I'm not spending $200 to play a $15 game. We're talking about $400 next gen systems with streaming only and no disc drive or no ability to play movies. This will have a big factor on my choice in system, next generation.

Why limit the device?
You're kidding right? Well I can say one thing. You are adamant in your yearning for another Blu-Ray Movie player in your system. Once and for all. It's about GAMES. Not Blu-Ray Movies. That system already exists. It's called PS3. If you want it, buy it. That doesn't even begin to suggest that MS will make its new console about Blu-Ray movies and become just another "Me Too" knock off of the PS3. You are looking at this totally from a Blu-Ray Group POV.

We're talking CHBDVD as a GAMES medium...period. The Original XBox was about Games. The XBox 360 was about Games. None of them were about movies. And the Nexgen XBox will be about Games.

And what in the world are you talking about in terms of fighting a market? Where the money is for XBox? Us Switching to CBDVD for movies? It's like you are just ignoring everything most of us are saying here. No one is remotely suggesting that CHBDVD/HDDVD will be a competing HD movie format in the US. It's a proprietary MS GAMES XBox YRD. And CHBDVD is a much better GAMES format for MS than Blu-Ray/BD-"J"AVA.

Sun Microsystem is a multi billion $$$ sworn blood enemy of MS. That's like one of us saying we'll support our wives first boyfriend just because he wears underpants too. Or it's like Coca Cola Company propping up Pepsi Cola! Fat Chance! The MS CEO and every key executive would be fired if they launched a system that improved the market position of their arch enemy/competitor. MS wants to kill BD-J. Not make it a monopoly! You are engaged in wishful thinking on the MS nexgen drive. It may or may not be CHBDVD/HDDVD. But I would bet the ranch it won't be Blu-Ray. And yes there will be an optical/mechanical drive of some sort.

I guess MS supported the CHBDVD project out of the kindness of their hearts if I use your reasoning on HDDVD. Gee! Why weren't they just as kind to Blu_Ray in the USA or rest of the world then? According to your logic, they had much more to gain by supporting Blu-Ray. Practically everything China and MS does from a manufacturing/Dev standpoint has bearing on the US market.


And to your very last paragraph, I would suggest you are rushing to judgement. And you are completely underestimating MS' capabilities to make and sell a successful system without Blu-Ray. If we learned nothing else about the current generation consoles, it is this. They didn't need Blu-Ray or HDDVD to be successful. In fact the opposite was true for Sony. Many blame the Blu-Ray drive for its slide to #3 in the console wars. So I highly doubt MS will see it as a must have on nexgen.

I believe you will be one of the first in line to buy the new XBox if their devs launch K..A..new games to support it. What is your real problem with China's Blu-Laser system anyway YRD. I'm not seeing it. It doesn't impede your ability to buy and enjoy Blu-Ray movies or PS3 games? It will allow XBox developers to make bigger and more challenging games for avid XBox fans that are equal or better than Blu-Ray games for the PS3. And it could help facilitate a bigger online gaming world between XBox Live and Windows Live Gaming. I ask you the same question you asked us. Why limit the new XBox to Blu-Ray?
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post #382 of 7006 Old 03-28-2011, 01:15 PM
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You guys are all saying 30g is enough. It's just like the historical quote "everything that's been invented has been invented." PS3 thought 256mb ram and a 2x BR drive was enough.

Why limit the device.

The fact that MS supplies the HD-I interface for CHBD movies has nothing to do with games. The fact that CHBD is china's new HD movie medium has no bearing on the US market for movies either, US is settled on BR.

The US is where the money is for xbox. Why fight the market, for a petty software rivalry on movie discs. US (or any other country for that matter) won't be switching to CHBD movies.

We shall see, the decisions MS and Sony make on their systems may turn me away. Before the Wii, I would buy every game system available. I liked games on every platform. I really want to play the Wii's Blaster Master remake, but I'm not spending $200 to play a $15 game. We're talking about $400 next gen systems with streaming only and no disc drive or no ability to play movies. This will have a big factor on my choice in system, next generation.

Why limit the device?
You're kidding right? Well I can say one thing. You are adamant in your yearning for another Blu-Ray Movie player in your system. Once and for all. It's about GAMES. Not Blu-Ray Movies. That system already exists. It's called PS3. If you want it, buy it. That doesn't even begin to suggest that MS will make its new console about Blu-Ray movies and become just another "Me Too" knock off of the PS3. You are looking at this totally from a Blu-Ray Group POV.

We're talking CHBDVD as a GAMES medium...period. The Original XBox was about Games. The XBox 360 was about Games. None of them were about movies. And the Nexgen XBox will be about Games.

And what in the world are you talking about in terms of fighting a market? Where the money is for XBox? Us Switching to CBDVD for movies? It's like you are just ignoring everything most of us are saying here. No one is remotely suggesting that CHBDVD/HDDVD will be a competing HD movie format in the US. It's a proprietary MS GAMES XBox YRD. And CHBDVD is a much better GAMES format for MS than Blu-Ray/BD-"J"AVA.

Sun Microsystem is a multi billion $$$ sworn blood enemy of MS. That's like one of us saying we'll support our wives first boyfriend just because he wears underpants too. Or it's like Coca Cola Company propping up Pepsi Cola! Fat Chance! The MS CEO and every key executive would be fired if they launched a system that improved the market position of their arch enemy/competitor. MS wants to kill BD-J. Not make it a monopoly! You are engaged in wishful thinking on the MS nexgen drive. It may or may not be CHBDVD/HDDVD. But I would bet the ranch it won't be Blu-Ray. And yes there will be an optical/mechanical drive of some sort.

I guess MS supported the CHBDVD project out of the kindness of their hearts if I use your reasoning on HDDVD. Gee! Why weren't they just as kind to Blu_Ray in the USA or rest of the world then? According to your logic, they had much more to gain by supporting Blu-Ray. Practically everything China and MS does from a manufacturing/Dev standpoint has bearing on the US market.


And to your very last paragraph, I would suggest you are rushing to judgement. And you are completely underestimating MS' capabilities to make and sell a successful system without Blu-Ray. If we learned nothing else about the current generation consoles, it is this. They didn't need Blu-Ray or HDDVD to be successful. In fact the opposite was true for Sony. Many blame the Blu-Ray drive for its slide to #3 in the console wars. So I highly doubt MS will see it as a must have on nexgen.

I believe you will be one of the first in line to buy the new XBox if their devs launch K..A..new games to support it. What is your real problem with China's Blu-Laser system anyway YRD. I'm not seeing it. It doesn't impede your ability to buy and enjoy Blu-Ray movies or PS3 games? It will allow XBox developers to make bigger and more challenging games for avid XBox fans that are equal or better than Blu-Ray games for the PS3. And it could help facilitate a bigger online gaming world between XBox Live and Windows Live Gaming. I ask you the same question you asked us. Why limit the new XBox to Blu-Ray?
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post #383 of 7006 Old 03-28-2011, 01:43 PM
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I'm not saying that blu-ray will end up being in the 720, there are very good arguments as to why it will not.

But arguing that the 360 was all about games, and if you want blu-ray in your next game system by the competitor's product is just chock full of LOL.

1. The 360 is all about games. Um, no. MS marketed the 360 extensively to be the central hub of the entertainment system. They have integrated music and movie and sports and social media as central components of the system. Tell me again about how the 360 is ALL about the games...

2. The 360 was released when the blu-ray / HD-DVD battle was not decided. MS obviously was behind the HD-DVD format. It lost. Yes yes, it's not completely gone I guess, but as far as mainstream movie delivery in the U.S., it most certainly is.

I don't know the split between DVD and Blu-ray these days. My sense is that blu-ray is pushing the DVD the way of the cassette tape, if it hasn't already. Streaming/DD certainly appears to be the wave of the future, but when that future arrives in a mainstream way is anyone's guess.

If I was in a MS development/marketing meeting where the question was asked "What about Blu-ray?" and someone piped up to essentially say "F 'em, tell them to buy a PS3..." that dude would be pink slipped faster than you can say blueberry pancakes.

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post #384 of 7006 Old 03-28-2011, 01:52 PM
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Originally Posted by coyote_5 View Post

If I was in a MS development/marketing meeting where the question was asked "What about Blu-ray?" and someone piped up to essentially say "F 'em, tell them to buy a PS3..." that dude would be pink slipped faster than you can say blueberry pancakes.

I think the point was
if they wanted a BD player (by the time the 720 is released) they'd already have one, and won't need one from the 720

I still have not heard a good reason why MS would be happy to help sell BD movies for Sony, besides "because MS will sell more consoles" which I'll never believe to be true.

by the time the 720 is released, people will be buying it for the games. I personally will buy just to own the next gen version of Elder Scrolls, and this is before Skyrim is even released

so essentially yes, "f' em"

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post #385 of 7006 Old 03-28-2011, 02:09 PM
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BR movies and BR games are different. There's no requirement for the sun software on a blu ray disc game.

I'm not a blu ray fan boy. I'm a fan of the technical benefits provided by the medium. It has a higher capacity, higher transfer rate. It's technically superior to HDDVD. There's a limit to how much you can expand the red laser. MS can create a new game system with their own system called MS blue laser beams of death for all I care. The blue laser technology is better. That's what I want, I would like it to also play blu ray movies, because we have blu ray movies to buy in the store. Not CHBD movies.

Why make a game system that only plays HDDVD games when in the past they've marketed the systems to play movies and games.

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post #386 of 7006 Old 03-28-2011, 02:14 PM
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Why make a game system that only plays HDDVD games when in the past they've marketed the systems to play movies and games.

paradigm shift?

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post #387 of 7006 Old 03-28-2011, 02:29 PM
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Why limit the new XBox to Blu-Ray?

That doesn't make any sense when you compare the technical superiority of blu ray to CHBD. If they choose to go with CHBD, fine I can accept it as a games only device. It's better than DVD at least. If that is the choice, DVD or CHBD, please use CHBD. But I'd rather have the the 3rd option that's even better.

Typically in the past I would buy all systems day 1. Not the 360, there was absolutely nothing in the way of first gen games to sell the system to me. Never mind the fact that they increased the price of systems by $100 compared to the previous generation. PS3 I didn't buy until the price dropped considerably. That's my only way to view blu ray movies. Currently I find PS3 exclusive games are much better than what Xbox has. Really the only thing xbox has anymore is Gears of War and Halo. Halo is a tired old game that hasn't advanced at all.


I have a capable PC, I can play games on that with no difficulty waiting out the next generation of game systems. It's dependant on the games and they way to plan to deliver them.

Streaming only, no game system for me. I will refuse to buy it. I'm only one person but I WILL vote with my dollar.

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post #388 of 7006 Old 03-28-2011, 02:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Yrd View Post

BR movies and BR games are different. There's no requirement for the sun software on a blu ray disc game.

I'm not a blu ray fan boy. I'm a fan of the technical benefits provided by the medium. It has a higher capacity, higher transfer rate. It's technically superior to HDDVD. There's a limit to how much you can expand the red laser. MS can create a new game system with their own system called MS blue laser beams of death for all I care. The blue laser technology is better. That's what I want, I would like it to also play blu ray movies, because we have blu ray movies to buy in the store. Not CHBD movies.

Why make a game system that only plays HDDVD games when in the past they've marketed the systems to play movies and games.

YRD:
HDDVD and CHBDVD are extremely close cousins. CHBDVD is an improved format over HDDVD. But to the point. Both formats are Blu-Laser systems, just like Blu-Ray. They all use the same laser. HDDVD was never a "Red Laser format like DVD. They just used different diskc making process than Blu-Ray. On your last point, you are correct. except I don't know how I can explain it any better than I already have. their Blu-Laser system will play dvd movies just like the current XBox. And I know Reality angers many in the HD world. But DVD's still far outsell Blu-Ray in the US marketplace. And it is not going away anytime soon. DVD movies still command 75% of the movie buying marketplace. I'm not accusing you of being a fanboy. THis is just a good, robust and healthy conversation about MS exciting options for a nexgen player. The majority of us think they have the movie viewing side already covered with downloads and DVD. They can focus on the game side much more inexpensively with the BLiu-Laser system they helped develop. And it is not inferior to Blu-Ray in any way, or shape. That comment is just not true.
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post #389 of 7006 Old 03-28-2011, 02:40 PM
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paradigm shift?

I hope not. I like what the systems do now and hope they continue to do the same things.

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post #390 of 7006 Old 03-28-2011, 02:44 PM
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Coyote-5 said:
"If I was in a MS development/marketing meeting where the question was asked "What about Blu-ray?" and someone piped up to essentially say "F 'em, tell them to buy a PS3..." that dude would be pink slipped faster than you can say blueberry pancakes."

Well buddy! If that person was the CEO or Exec VP, i suspect you would shut up and sing hosanna about the wonders of their strategy. Give me a break. The XBox is about games first and foremost. Sure it can stream from XBox Live. Sure it can do a lot of neat stuff. But its about the games first. I sure didn't buy mine to watch Blu-Ray or DVD movies. Nor did I buy my PS3 to watch Blu-Ray movies. In fact I never use my P3 to do that. I prefer my Panny Blu-Ray player for that. The last thing I need is another expensive Blu-Ray drive in an XBox. Especially when they can give me a blu-Laser system that does the same thing cheaper.

If I was Steve Ballmer at MS I would toss anyone out on their ears if they presented a dumb nexgen plan to me that made my hated enemy stronger.
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