Microsoft fires the first shot in the "NEXT" generation.... - Page 2 - AVS Forum
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post #31 of 7006 Old 03-10-2011, 12:45 PM
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wow

I thought only Daekwan wrote novels like that

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post #32 of 7006 Old 03-10-2011, 12:48 PM
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post #33 of 7006 Old 03-10-2011, 12:54 PM
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I have this question. When do developers need to have a development kit? If they were told the specs of the next machine with the architecture they are using, could they begin development and get a lot of the stuff out of the way? Couldn't MS give them software to help develop for the next machine before the Developer Kits are needed? Building a game for a PC and porting it over to the next system shouldn't take that long should it?

I really don't know so maybe someone else can chime in. I would imagine MS wants some of the big games upon release. COD 2 was a great game when the 360 was new. I would also imagine Activision liked the sales they got releasing early without much competition. Epic will probably try to get a game out early.

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post #34 of 7006 Old 03-10-2011, 01:17 PM
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^im not in the development game, but heres what i think.

the game being made determines the length of time needed to "make" a game.

a final fantasy can take 3-4 years. a fart ap on indie games can take a day.

now on the subject of a new system not yet out to market, the final specs can change up to the last minute before its officially on store shelves. even now-a-days they can change after the fact due to downloadable updates/on-disc updates.

i believe developemental kits for the next gen systems can get to a developer on a piece by piece basis. a pc by default. the game system company simply tells the developers "ok, it will be able to do this and that" and send them parts that can accomplish close to what it will be able to do, but not quite perfect since the hardware isnt finalized. then once the final specs have gone gold, real dev kits go to these developers and they can finalize their games and usually (i believe) this is why we have a couple of launch titles, then a lazy dribbling river over the course of a year. the first AAA titles appear within launch date to 1 year.

so i would imagine developers would get their hands on early dev kits from 1 1/2 years to 6 months before final specs are final.
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post #35 of 7006 Old 03-10-2011, 01:25 PM
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i'd like to state that the "first movers advantage" anthony1 mentions does have its limitations in hind-sight. the 360 launched with a dvd drive. the ps3 went teh blu's.

disc size advantage went to the ps3, but the 360 did have a larger installed base by the time the ps3 rolled around, and so it explaines (partly) why most developers develop PC then 360 then ps3.

serious thought: the next gen systems COULD be disk-less, but we have this mentality that "i bought something, i want a hard copy". to which i totally agree with, but if we take the disk out of the equation, get hard drives that can be upgraded ourselves (ala ps3), then we have one less limitation placed on game developers. so i dont see these next gen systems going disk-less. a bit more weight will be put on online capabilities (multiplayer/DLC/etc), which will make certain the FOLLOWING generation will be sans-disk
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post #36 of 7006 Old 03-10-2011, 01:32 PM
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o yeah, i just read i think on Kotaku, that Kaz (of sony ps3 RIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIDGGGGGE RAAAAAAAAAAACEEEEEEEER glory), is now 2nd in command right behind Sir Stringer. it was mentioned that Kaz is thinking Sonys' next gen attempt will be built-in to television sets. now keep in mind this is WILD speculation, but its speculation nonetheless. at that rate 5 more playstation iterations and i get to play games via my nostrils if sony's ps9 commercial was correct

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post #37 of 7006 Old 03-10-2011, 01:51 PM
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If I remember correctly the first big leak last time was the processor chip used by the 360. Once that hit things got a little crazy and speculation took off. I wouldn't be surprised if MS and Sony do everything they possibly can to keep leaks to a minimum. When the 360 was unveiled "officially" there were NO surprises left. We knew everything except price and launch date, which didn't come at the unveiling. Part of me thinks MS did gradual leaks on purpose to build up excitement for it. I don't think that will be the case this time since surprising Sony with a new system a year earlier than they think could be huge.

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post #38 of 7006 Old 03-10-2011, 09:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alpha21 View Post

wow

I thought only Daekwan wrote novels like that

He's my brother!



In all seriousness. I have great respect for Anthony1. He was the first person I ever added to my Xbox Live friends list. You are talking the beta back in the summer of 2002. We had a AVS tournament and played NBA2K3 on the original Xbox. Thats almost 9 years ago. I know we've all been gaming for much longer than that.. but when you look at it.. time really flies. Makes me wonder what we will be doing 9 years in the future. Xbox Super Holographic 3D Live perhaps?

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post #39 of 7006 Old 03-11-2011, 06:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cool Face View Post

WILD speculation, but its speculation nonetheless. at that rate 5 more playstation iterations and i get to play games via my nostrils if sony's ps9 commercial was correct

Sorry, those two Consoles have been released already, The Mescaline Station 2 and LSD360.
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post #40 of 7006 Old 03-11-2011, 10:38 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Daekwan View Post

He's my brother!



In all seriousness. I have great respect for Anthony1. He was the first person I ever added to my Xbox Live friends list. You are talking the beta back in the summer of 2002. We had a AVS tournament and played NBA2K3 on the original Xbox. )


Wow, you were in that league? Damn, that was a long, long time ago. Back in those days, I used to play online all the time in the NBA game and NFL game. I haven't had that same Xbox Live name in a long, long time. I let that account expire, and I don't think I could ever get that name again.

Yeah, I've been gaming a very long time. I pretty much became a hardcore gamer back in 1990. In early 1990, I bought both a TurboGrafx-16 and a Sega Genesis. Each system had only been out for like 8 months at the time, they were both very brand new. I got the TurboGrafx-16 first, and then a number of months later got the Genesis. That was pretty much my beginning into the madness. I blame it on Legendary Axe and John Madden Football.
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post #41 of 7006 Old 03-12-2011, 12:34 AM
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Honestly. I am not even excited for next gen. This last one was a big fat let down. Between the rehashes, dlc prices/content and sub par HD. Meh I say. They promised 720p for ALL games at the bare minimum. We know what happened with that. Sony was even worse claiming 1080p for all games.
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post #42 of 7006 Old 03-12-2011, 10:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anthony1 View Post

Wow, you were in that league? Damn, that was a long, long time ago. Back in those days, I used to play online all the time in the NBA game and NFL game. I haven't had that same Xbox Live name in a long, long time. I let that account expire, and I don't think I could ever get that name again..

Actually if you want that name back bro.. go get it now. About a week ago MS just released the original Xbox Live gamertags that had expired. I finally got my original XBL name back "Daekwan"..

Oh and check out this old PM message I still have in my inbox lol:

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Re: NBA2K3
You got the Spurs. I had to give Adebar the Kings.
So you're in and you got the San Antonio Spurs.
I'll keep you updated by your email.


I wanted the King so bad!! That was when they had Mike Bibby, Chris Webber, Petrovik, Turkolou, Doug Christie, and a few others. Should have beaten the Lakers in that playoffs series if it wasnt for Big Shot Bob aka Robert Horry.. Im still mad about that!!

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post #43 of 7006 Old 03-12-2011, 11:11 AM
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Still gotta long way to go before game tech fully uses the xbox potential. Even further to go before game tech uses PS3 potential. I wonder if we will see a dramatic increase in visuals. Perhaps the ability to have more going on in the game such as more baddies on screen at one time shooting at you.

I frankly would be more excited if people would focus on the robustness and performance of online gaming tech.
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post #44 of 7006 Old 03-12-2011, 05:18 PM
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xbox 720 is better than the ps4 and wii2... just wanted to be the first one to say it....
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post #45 of 7006 Old 03-12-2011, 09:34 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mizuno21 View Post

Still gotta long way to go before game tech fully uses the xbox potential. Even further to go before game tech uses PS3 potential. I wonder if we will see a dramatic increase in visuals. Perhaps the ability to have more going on in the game such as more baddies on screen at one time shooting at you.

Eh, I don't think we are going to see any game that radically alters what we thought the 360 and PS3 are capable of. We know what the systems are capable of, and there will definitely be some impressive games for them over the next couple of years, but I don't think we are going to get anything super revolutionary with this current level of hardware.

We already know that Crysis 2, Rage, Skyrim and Battlefield 3 should look CONSIDERABLY better on a high-end gaming PC. Sure, the 360 and PS3 versions of these games won't be horrible by any stretch, but none of those games will be running in 1080p with high-rez textures. We know why COD and Halo are running at sub-720p resolutions... It allows the developer to layer more special effects on top. With PC's, they don't need to deal with those sacrifices.

I get where you're coming from, because games like God of War 2 at the end of the PS2's lifecycle did seem lightyears beyond early PS2 games, but overall I think we know what the current gen is capable of. L.A. Noire has some interesting technology that makes it seem like a game running on a PS4, but I'm sure after playing it awhile, you quickly come back down to earth and realize that it's just a 360 or PS3 game with a bit of technical wizardry layered on top in terms of the facial animations.
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post #46 of 7006 Old 03-12-2011, 11:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Anthony1 View Post

Eh, I don't think we are going to see any game that radically alters what we thought the 360 and PS3 are capable of. We know what the systems are capable of, and there will definitely be some impressive games for them over the next couple of years, but I don't think we are going to get anything super revolutionary with this current level of hardware.

We already know that Crysis 2, Rage, Skyrim and Battlefield 3 should look CONSIDERABLY better on a high-end gaming PC. Sure, the 360 and PS3 versions of these games won't be horrible by any stretch, but none of those games will be running in 1080p with high-rez textures. We know why COD and Halo are running at sub-720p resolutions... It allows the developer to layer more special effects on top. With PC's, they don't need to deal with those sacrifices.

I get where you're coming from, because games like God of War 2 at the end of the PS2's lifecycle did seem lightyears beyond early PS2 games, but overall I think we know what the current gen is capable of. L.A. Noire has some interesting technology that makes it seem like a game running on a PS4, but I'm sure after playing it awhile, you quickly come back down to earth and realize that it's just a 360 or PS3 game with a bit of technical wizardry layered on top in terms of the facial animations.

I was thinking GOW exactly. I can't argue with anything you said. Good post
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post #47 of 7006 Old 03-13-2011, 10:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anthony1 View Post

Eh, I don't think we are going to see any game that radically alters what we thought the 360 and PS3 are capable of. We know what the systems are capable of, and there will definitely be some impressive games for them over the next couple of years, but I don't think we are going to get anything super revolutionary with this current level of hardware.

We already know that Crysis 2, Rage, Skyrim and Battlefield 3 should look CONSIDERABLY better on a high-end gaming PC. Sure, the 360 and PS3 versions of these games won't be horrible by any stretch, but none of those games will be running in 1080p with high-rez textures. We know why COD and Halo are running at sub-720p resolutions... It allows the developer to layer more special effects on top. With PC's, they don't need to deal with those sacrifices.

I get where you're coming from, because games like God of War 2 at the end of the PS2's lifecycle did seem lightyears beyond early PS2 games, but overall I think we know what the current gen is capable of. L.A. Noire has some interesting technology that makes it seem like a game running on a PS4, but I'm sure after playing it awhile, you quickly come back down to earth and realize that it's just a 360 or PS3 game with a bit of technical wizardry layered on top in terms of the facial animations.

I am starting to think that if we haven't had any games running 720p and 60fps yet, it is never going to happen. Both current consoles are at 95% of capacity. Someone may get that last little bit out of them, but it will most definitely be a first party effort. Playing games like COD you can just see what happens when a bunch goes on. Get a few killstreaks up in the air and the framerate drops badly.

I would much rather see a new console because all games will improve compared to a handful that may come from skilled developers over the next couple of years. I would like to be wowed by games and I think we are past that. System limitations are showing their ugly heads.

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post #48 of 7006 Old 03-13-2011, 11:45 AM
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The longevity of the 360 is very impressive. I bought one at launch and it still doesn't feel like an outdated bit of kit.

One of the fastest dating consoles I ever owned was the PS2, it didn't feel like such a massive boost over the PS1 in the first place and I remember being very disappointed with the majority of the games.

The original Xbox with hindsight seemed to last about 18months though

I think the next generation will be about the last standalone hardware gaming platform, its all going to go off site and network based in hardware terms. The console will just be a terminal , all the number crunching will be happening on a big assed render farm somewhere , no possibility of piracy. The companies won't have to take an initial massive loss in terms of hardware production either.

Whatever they do I want he next xbox to be silent

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post #49 of 7006 Old 03-13-2011, 01:49 PM
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I still prefer the first Xbox with Live over this one with Live. Maybe because I had more friends, was younger and could play hours on end without worry.

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post #50 of 7006 Old 03-14-2011, 06:45 AM
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I still prefer the first Xbox with Live over this one with Live. Maybe because I had more friends, was younger and could play hours on end without worry.
Sounds more like you enjoyed your life more back than, as opposed to liking the first xbox more

Too many systems and games....not enough time or money!

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post #51 of 7006 Old 03-15-2011, 10:45 AM
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Well all i ask for is SSD drives please!!!!!
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post #52 of 7006 Old 03-15-2011, 10:50 AM
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If Xbox was to ship another version in 2013, you would already be hearing about it through usual channels. You need to give the developers at least a couple of years of lead time for development and there would be all kinds of leaks.

That has not happened, which would lead most to believe that a new console in 2013 would be unlikely.

The fact that Kinect is selling so well as bought Microsoft another 4 to 5 years before needing a new console.
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post #53 of 7006 Old 03-15-2011, 11:30 AM
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I won't buy one the first year anyway. Unless I will wait for all the flaws. Unless it shows to be pretty impressive. Then I may after a few months. They need to take there time and get it right. Also need to be Kinect compatible if it comes out soon. I doubt ppl will give up ther Kinects for a new concole. I don't have one but it making record sales.
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post #54 of 7006 Old 03-15-2011, 11:41 AM
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I have a close friend who was a top person on the 360 dev team. Sorry, can't name him because he is now a top person in another company vital to MS/XBox right now. Anyway, He told me a few months ago that MS is actually pretty far along on the specs for the new console. They already have an exciting array of concepts/features to test and scale up. He also said the new console will allow creative bridging between film and games, to make a serious convergence. And finally he threw a Halo bone out by saying a topic of discussion was to completely redo all of the Halo games from the original to Reach, in one big, long, all inclusive game from more of a "Gravemind/forerunner" perspective. That would allow them to add new and unanticipated game content. And move forward with Masterchief into the new Halo World on the new console. I was excited. And I suspect every single 360 owner would buy the new console just to play the "Uber" Halo alone.
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post #55 of 7006 Old 03-15-2011, 12:10 PM
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I have a close friend who was a top person on the 360 dev team. Sorry, can't name him because he is now a top person in another company vital to MS/XBox right now. Anyway, He told me a few months ago that MS is actually pretty far along on the specs for the new console. They already have an exciting array of concepts/features to test and scale up. He also said the new console will allow creative bridging between film and games, to make a serious convergence. And finally he threw a Halo bone out by saying a topic of discussion was to completely redo all of the Halo games from the original to Reach, in one big, long, all inclusive game from more of a "Gravemind/forerunner" perspective. That would allow them to add new and unanticipated game content. And move forward with Masterchief into the new Halo World on the new console. I was excited. And I suspect every single 360 owner would buy the new console just to play the "Uber" Halo alone.

No more Halo please. Also, the combining of movies and games is not a good thing to me either. Most games based on movies are awful and rushed to release and too many games are already just one long movie with a little game in between. This will only be multiplied if the games and movies are somehow linked to each other.

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post #56 of 7006 Old 03-15-2011, 01:01 PM
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No more Halo please. Also, the combining of movies and games is not a good thing to me either. Most games based on movies are awful and rushed to release and too many games are already just one long movie with a little game in between. This will only be multiplied if the games and movies are somehow linked to each other.

I hear you and agree with you on the movie aspect. But one of the things my friend meant was the convergence of real environments, where you navigate AI within real world images and bridge it with graphics. A lot of that goes on already. Especially in the commercial world of advertising. I'm not sure how much I will like that. But it will be different. Like you, I like my storytelling to evolve within that actual game itself. And with as little movie interruption as possible. In fact, I told my buddy, that I hope this would not lead to having to watch a 30-60 minute feature to launch into a game. That kind of convergence could be disaster if over done. As for Halo. I think a retelling of the entire story in one comprehensive game, told from a different perspective would actually be very interesting. And it would certainly get big topspin as a launch vehicle for the new console. In fact, I hope all of the content providers focus more on re-telling the old stories better by utilizing the new console technologies. He made me think for example, how I would love to see all of the Zelda's completely redone in HD format for a system like PS3 or XBox 360. One could actually combine all of the Zelda stories into 1 big immersive game. That is what I think he driving at with the Halo direction. Or I sure hope he was. Because there are a lot of great old PC/XBox original concepts out there like Advent Rising that need to be recast peoperly in the new XBox. I prefer that approach over backward compatibility.
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post #57 of 7006 Old 03-15-2011, 01:13 PM
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Originally Posted by RemoWilliams84 View Post

No more Halo please. Also, the combining of movies and games is not a good thing to me either. Most games based on movies are awful and rushed to release and too many games are already just one long movie with a little game in between. This will only be multiplied if the games and movies are somehow linked to each other.

I hear you and agree with you on the movie aspect. But one of the things my friend meant was the convergence of real environments, where you navigate AI within real world images and bridge it with graphics. A lot of that goes on already. Especially in the commercial world of advertising. I'm not sure how much I will like that. But it will be different. Like you, I like my storytelling to evolve within that actual game itself. And with as little movie interruption as possible. In fact, I told my buddy, that I hope this would not lead to having to watch a 30-60 minute feature to launch into a game. That kind of convergence could be disaster if over done. As for Halo. I think a retelling of the entire story in one comprehensive game, told from a different perspective would actually be very interesting. And it would certainly get big topspin as a launch vehicle for the new console. In fact, I hope all of the content providers focus more on re-telling the old stories better by utilizing the new console technologies. He made me think for example, how I would love to see all of the Zelda's completely redone in HD format for a system like PS3 or XBox 360. One could actually combine all of the Zelda stories into 1 big immersive game. That is what I think he driving at with the Halo direction. Or I sure hope he was. Because there are a lot of great old PC/XBox original concepts out there like Advent Rising that need to be recast peoperly in the new XBox. I prefer that approach over backward compatibility.
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post #58 of 7006 Old 03-15-2011, 01:25 PM
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Here is what I would like to see in the new XBox console.

A lightweight, 3D Hi-Def, wrap around head visor with 5.1 earphone capability built in. Think of an OLED version of Geordi LeForge (Star Trek NG) visor that wraps around the entire head for support instead of the nose bridge. But with a small Imax type wrap screen within it that does sits roughly 2 inches from the eyeballs. That would be Big screen effect in a very small package. Unsure about seizures though! And don't make it a big bulky helmet. More like a Halo (no pun intended). That would be a neat interface and accessory.
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post #59 of 7006 Old 03-15-2011, 01:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gameboy View Post


The fact that Kinect is selling so well as bought Microsoft another 4 to 5 years before needing a new console.

4-5 years may be pushing it. I'd say 2-3 is more likely.

Too many systems and games....not enough time or money!

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post #60 of 7006 Old 03-15-2011, 02:22 PM
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Originally Posted by mbyrnes View Post

I have this question. When do developers need to have a development kit? If they were told the specs of the next machine with the architecture they are using, could they begin development and get a lot of the stuff out of the way? Couldn't MS give them software to help develop for the next machine before the Developer Kits are needed? Building a game for a PC and porting it over to the next system shouldn't take that long should it?

I really don't know so maybe someone else can chime in. I would imagine MS wants some of the big games upon release. COD 2 was a great game when the 360 was new. I would also imagine Activision liked the sales they got releasing early without much competition. Epic will probably try to get a game out early.

I am not a game programmer either but from what I have read in the past and as far as I understand it, the KIT is needed because it has a newer graphics chip among other things and a different architecture. If you use the 360 kit to design the next generation console game then you are limiting yourself to what the graphics are capable of. It doesn't automatically bump up the graphics even though the next gen console is capable of rendering much more polygons. Got a friend who used to work for EA and can give me a better explanation in this matter.

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