Microsoft fires the first shot in the "NEXT" generation.... - Page 25 - AVS Forum
Forum Jump: 
 
Thread Tools
post #721 of 7006 Old 04-08-2011, 12:22 PM
AVS Special Member
 
alpha21's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: minn
Posts: 3,888
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by bbexperience View Post

It's equally exhausting trying to argue the other side.

with gems like these, your exhaustion levels must be hazardous to your health

"I'd think most people (even those with jobs or school or kids or whatever else) can make it to the store if they wanted to pick a game up."

"I know that a lot of people go to Wal-Mart, and I stay as far away from that place as I can. How could I know such a thing?"

where would we be without insight like this?

Mits-WS55413;Denon-3803;ToshibaXA1 HD-DVD;Klipsch- RF35;Samsung-TS160;SVS PB12plus/2
XBL GT - se7entee7
alpha21 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #722 of 7006 Old 04-08-2011, 12:36 PM
AVS Special Member
 
mbyrnes's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Media, PA (outside Philly)
Posts: 3,497
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 83 Post(s)
Liked: 177
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yrd View Post

I'm going to be pompous and aggravating and say, Solid State disk games + kiosks ain't happening.


Flash drives are volatile and the idea that all my games are to be housed on them is frightening.

Lets assume we use this kiosk system. You take your drive and plug it in, it doesn't work. What do you do? Is it an official MS drive or your own? Your own drive, you have to buy another. MS drive, you have to some how prove it wasn't your fault you didn't zap it, I'd assume. Because these things are so volatile there's a big fail rate, they'd either have to replace all these dead drives or force you to buy another.

Never mind the fact that it will be worse than a redbox because you have to wait for some idiot to browse the entire list of games, then wait for his transfer if he actually decides to buy something.

Basically a couple of things. I would imagine that Gamestop would want in on the action and the employee would actually put the game on the USB. No browsing tie ups this way. I would also imagine that MS would replace the drives if they broke. They want you to buy games so you having you replace the USB drive would be a pain in the butt and may stop people from buying new games. I don't think Kiosks would be the only system available for those who want to buy games (although I would think they would co-exist with stores).

The USB would only be a way to transport the game from a store to the Nexbox. Once you insert the USB it transfers the game to the large HDD and erases the USB. Your Live account would hold the owner data so if the HDD crashed it would be fine. I would imagine they would have to have people register which games they have in case they don't have an online hookup. Maybe give your Live GT at the store and they log who buys what to MS servers.

Really I am just playing with other ideas. I strongly believe the next system will continue with disc based game sales and DD will also be offered to those who choose that route. DD should be cheaper and I would buy all my games that way. Some people on hear feel that disc based gaming is going away and I am just trying to find a way that seems logical for MS to pull off without discs. USB 3.0 has tremendous transfer rates and would be extremely fast and convenient to buy in stores and transfer to the console. The problem is I imagine the costs of the hardware would make this option not viable. It would just be cheaper to include a disc drive and no replacement hassle with USB drives. DD cannot be the only option as many couldn't buy games that way. We are multiple years away from DD as the only way to buy games. I don't care what others say about that. The internet infrastructure isn't close to being ready for that in the States. Maybe in Asia and Europe, but not here.

Xbox Live: TheRealMaxPower --- PSN: TheRealMaxPower

 

Panasonic TC-P65VT60    Vienna Acoustic Mozart Grands    Onkyo TX-SR805   Sony BDP-S790

Astro Mixamp 2013   Schiit Modi    AKG K702 65th Anniversary   Antlion ModMic    Sennheiser PC360

Theater- Benq W1070    Elite 120" projection...

mbyrnes is offline  
post #723 of 7006 Old 04-08-2011, 12:51 PM
Yrd
AVS Special Member
 
Yrd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Elkton, MD
Posts: 3,000
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 184 Post(s)
Liked: 191
Quote:
Originally Posted by mbyrnes View Post

Basically a couple of things. I would imagine that Gamestop would want in on the action and the employee would actually put the game on the USB. No browsing tie ups this way. I would also imagine that MS would replace the drives if they broke. They want you to buy games so you having you replace the USB drive would be a pain in the butt and may stop people from buying new games. I don't think Kiosks would be the only system available for those who want to buy games (although I would think they would co-exist with stores).

The USB would only be a way to transport the game from a store to the Nexbox. Once you insert the USB it transfers the game to the large HDD and erases the USB. Your Live account would hold the owner data so if the HDD crashed it would be fine. I would imagine they would have to have people register which games they have in case they don't have an online hookup. Maybe give your Live GT at the store and they log who buys what to MS servers.

Really I am just playing with other ideas. I strongly believe the next system will continue with disc based game sales and DD will also be offered to those who choose that route. DD should be cheaper and I would buy all my games that way. Some people on hear feel that disc based gaming is going away and I am just trying to find a way that seems logical for MS to pull off without discs. USB 3.0 has tremendous transfer rates and would be extremely fast and convenient to buy in stores and transfer to the console. The problem is I imagine the costs of the hardware would make this option not viable. It would just be cheaper to include a disc drive and no replacement hassle with USB drives. DD cannot be the only option as many couldn't buy games that way. We are multiple years away from DD as the only way to buy games. I don't care what others say about that. The internet infrastructure isn't close to being ready for that in the States. Maybe in Asia and Europe, but not here.


The usb hardware isn't the biggest issue. It's the cost of the memory chips.

XBL Gamertag- Yrd
PSN - Yerd

Steam - Yrd

Yrd is online now  
post #724 of 7006 Old 04-08-2011, 01:04 PM
AVS Special Member
 
bbexperience's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Jackson, MI
Posts: 2,667
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Liked: 53
Quote:
Originally Posted by alpha21 View Post

with gems like these, your exhaustion levels must be hazardous to your health

"I'd think most people (even those with jobs or school or kids or whatever else) can make it to the store if they wanted to pick a game up."

"I know that a lot of people go to Wal-Mart, and I stay as far away from that place as I can. How could I know such a thing?"

where would we be without insight like this?

Here's a word you can look up online: c o n t e x t

Anyway, you offer no counterpoints to anything I've said other than wonderful, insightful, beautiful comments like this. You say I twist your words and yet you don't explain why. You start a discussion/argument/conversation/whatever and then when a counter opinion or viewpoint is offered you basically call that person an idiot and refuse to continue. And then you think a comparison of you to gameboy is an insult. Go figure.

Read. Think. Post. In that order, preferably

"If the Playstation and Xbox are like the Bloods and the Crips, then the Wii is whatever gang Sha Na Na was in" - Christian Finnegan
bbexperience is offline  
post #725 of 7006 Old 04-08-2011, 01:17 PM
AVS Special Member
 
alpha21's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: minn
Posts: 3,888
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by bbexperience View Post

Here's a word you can look up online: c o n t e x t

Anyway, you offer no counterpoints to anything I've said other than wonderful, insightful, beautiful comments like this. You say I twist your words and yet you don't explain why. You start a discussion/argument/conversation/whatever and then when a counter opinion or viewpoint is offered you basically call that person an idiot and refuse to continue. And then you think a comparison of you to gameboy is an insult. Go figure.


this
Quote:
Originally Posted by barrelbelly View Post

You missed the point entirely. And I apologize. I don't feel like repeating myself over again. You'll have to go back and read everything I've written if you want to know the relevance.


Quote:
Originally Posted by bbexperience View Post

And then you think a comparison of you to gameboy is an insult. Go figure.

because it was obviously meant as a compliment

Mits-WS55413;Denon-3803;ToshibaXA1 HD-DVD;Klipsch- RF35;Samsung-TS160;SVS PB12plus/2
XBL GT - se7entee7
alpha21 is offline  
post #726 of 7006 Old 04-08-2011, 01:35 PM
AVS Special Member
 
dragonyeuw's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Earth
Posts: 3,132
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 50
If I may, with regards to the concept of an all DD console, Gamespot is the largest gaming chain in North America, yes? That being the case, what's the odds that they support a DD console that effectively would take away their biggest revenue source, that being used games? I'm sure that's A-ok with MS, Sony, Nintendo, etc but how big a blow would it be to one of those companies if Gamespot refused to carry their console because it was DD only? Sure there are other places to buy game consoles, but surely retailers would have to be consulted as to whether they'd actually carry an all-DD console?

Too many systems and games....not enough time or money!

dragonyeuw is offline  
post #727 of 7006 Old 04-08-2011, 01:37 PM
Advanced Member
 
Sorax's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Atlanta, GA
Posts: 874
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6 Post(s)
Liked: 53
This thread should be titled Speculation Wars. Some good ideas here sprinkled with a little unlikely drama. No place like the internet

Gamer Tag: Todd Stevens
Sorax is offline  
post #728 of 7006 Old 04-08-2011, 01:45 PM
AVS Special Member
 
mbyrnes's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Media, PA (outside Philly)
Posts: 3,497
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 83 Post(s)
Liked: 177
I am trying to have fun. Everything is speculation until something is announced. Some people are getting a little upset over very trivial things. Gameboy has gotten better with his responses so it isn't as bad as it was IMO.

Xbox Live: TheRealMaxPower --- PSN: TheRealMaxPower

 

Panasonic TC-P65VT60    Vienna Acoustic Mozart Grands    Onkyo TX-SR805   Sony BDP-S790

Astro Mixamp 2013   Schiit Modi    AKG K702 65th Anniversary   Antlion ModMic    Sennheiser PC360

Theater- Benq W1070    Elite 120" projection...

mbyrnes is offline  
post #729 of 7006 Old 04-08-2011, 02:11 PM
AVS Special Member
 
alpha21's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: minn
Posts: 3,888
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sorax View Post

No place like the internet

step by step of winning the internet

1 - never directly argue the point at hand. if someone argues water is cold, don't argue that it's warm, rather argue that it's wet. that way, your opposing argument is never wrong. if they say you are off topic, claim that you can't be off topic because you're still talking about water. if they catch on to you, and claim that you've twisted the point, ask them to show you proof. the proof is so obvious, that they really can't say it any differently than they did the first time, thus beginning a lengthy process of back and forth about nothing.

2 – now, before the other person figures out what you’re doing, hit them with an insult. for best results, use one that isn’t an outright insult. that way, you can CYA by claiming it wasn’t an insult when they call foul, yet it induces them into insulting you back. once they insult you, now you can call them a hypocrite and applaud the irony.

3 – now you have them cornered! there are only two ways out of this trap.

a. they continue attempting to dig out the hole (you so cleverly dug following steps 1 and 2), which only digs them deeper into the hole. this route is chosen by those who don’t notice the ruse that has been hatched.

b. they call you out on your ruse, and instead of playing the game, they end the cycle before it’s too late. at this point, you should now bait them to continue one last time. if they take the bait, your plan of discrediting them by making them “look more foolish” (a suggested insult from step 2) has begun. if they don’t take the bait, you can now claim to be the one who’s right, because they couldn’t out argue you, and you are now the last man standing. you shall be from thence forth known as……


Champion of the Internet!!!

Mits-WS55413;Denon-3803;ToshibaXA1 HD-DVD;Klipsch- RF35;Samsung-TS160;SVS PB12plus/2
XBL GT - se7entee7
alpha21 is offline  
post #730 of 7006 Old 04-08-2011, 02:33 PM
AVS Special Member
 
mbyrnes's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Media, PA (outside Philly)
Posts: 3,497
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 83 Post(s)
Liked: 177
Quote:
Originally Posted by alpha21 View Post

step by step of winning the internet

1 - never directly argue the point at hand. if someone argues water is cold, don't argue that it's warm, rather argue that it's wet. that way, your opposing argument is never wrong. if they say you are off topic, claim that you can't be off topic because you're still talking about water. if they catch on to you, and claim that you've twisted the point, ask them to show you proof. the proof is so obvious, that they really can't say it any differently than they did the first time, thus beginning a lengthy process of back and forth about nothing.

2 - now, before the other person figures out what you're doing, hit them with an insult. for best results, use one that isn't an outright insult. that way, you can CYA by claiming it wasn't an insult when they call foul, yet it induces them into insulting you back. once they insult you, now you can call them a hypocrite and applaud the irony.

3 - now you have them cornered! there are only two ways out of this trap.

a. they continue attempting to dig out the hole (you so cleverly dug following steps 1 and 2), which only digs them deeper into the hole. this route is chosen by those who don't notice the ruse that has been hatched.

b. they call you out on your ruse, and instead of playing the game, they end the cycle before it's too late. at this point, you should now bait them to continue one last time. if they take the bait, your plan of discrediting them by making them look more foolish (a suggested insult from step 2) has begun. if they don't take the bait, you can now claim to be the one who's right, because they couldn't out argue you, and you are now the last man standing. you shall be from thence forth known as


Champion of the Internet!!!

Thanks for the laugh. That was good!

Xbox Live: TheRealMaxPower --- PSN: TheRealMaxPower

 

Panasonic TC-P65VT60    Vienna Acoustic Mozart Grands    Onkyo TX-SR805   Sony BDP-S790

Astro Mixamp 2013   Schiit Modi    AKG K702 65th Anniversary   Antlion ModMic    Sennheiser PC360

Theater- Benq W1070    Elite 120" projection...

mbyrnes is offline  
post #731 of 7006 Old 04-08-2011, 03:10 PM
AVS Special Member
 
bbexperience's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Jackson, MI
Posts: 2,667
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Liked: 53
Quote:
Originally Posted by alpha21 View Post

this



because it was obviously meant as a compliment

None of the points you made were lost on me, and I DID in fact go back read them, just to be sure. I'm thorough that way I guess.

This whole thing fell apart when I said that I observed that a lot of people have an "instant gratification" mindset, and that will hinder the sales of downloaded games because people would rather have something right now than waiting for it, even if it means they end up with it at the same time. You didn't like that for some reason and claimed that an arbitrary example (admittedly, maybe not a great one) was "twisting" words. When confronted with how, exactly, that was twisting your words, you wouldn't reply. So there you go.

By the way, a couple of interesting articles on the study of instant gratification. These are NOT gaming related but are on the topic in general:

http://thepulseottawathree.wordpress...gratification/

http://www.3daycar.com/mainframe/pub...y/instgrat.pdf

http://www.money-rates.com/advanceds...-americans.htm


Again, I feel that this is relevant in a console where they're going to try to push downloads, where downloading isn't the only option. If the offer is A.)Buy day 1, have it day 2 or B.)Buy day 2, have it day 2, which will people choose? Obviously you'll have people that choose A, but what's the percentage that will choose B? That's the question Microsoft needs to answer I suppose. Also keep in mind that we've been primarily "discussing" new releases where a release could be anticipated. What happens when someone decides they want to buy a game that's been out awhile, which I would think is a good chunk of annual sales? Then it's A.)Buy day 1, have it day 2 or B.)Buy day 1, have it day 1. It's that choice that I feel is going to hinder the progress of downloading full HD games until the broadband infrastructure in the US can handle it.

Read. Think. Post. In that order, preferably

"If the Playstation and Xbox are like the Bloods and the Crips, then the Wii is whatever gang Sha Na Na was in" - Christian Finnegan
bbexperience is offline  
post #732 of 7006 Old 04-08-2011, 03:17 PM
AVS Special Member
 
bbexperience's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Jackson, MI
Posts: 2,667
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Liked: 53
Quote:
Originally Posted by alpha21 View Post

step by step of winning the internet

1 - never directly argue the point at hand. if someone argues water is cold, don't argue that it's warm, rather argue that it's wet. that way, your opposing argument is never wrong. if they say you are off topic, claim that you can't be off topic because you're still talking about water. if they catch on to you, and claim that you've twisted the point, ask them to show you proof. the proof is so obvious, that they really can't say it any differently than they did the first time, thus beginning a lengthy process of back and forth about nothing.

2 – now, before the other person figures out what you’re doing, hit them with an insult. for best results, use one that isn’t an outright insult. that way, you can CYA by claiming it wasn’t an insult when they call foul, yet it induces them into insulting you back. once they insult you, now you can call them a hypocrite and applaud the irony.

3 – now you have them cornered! there are only two ways out of this trap.

a. they continue attempting to dig out the hole (you so cleverly dug following steps 1 and 2), which only digs them deeper into the hole. this route is chosen by those who don’t notice the ruse that has been hatched.

b. they call you out on your ruse, and instead of playing the game, they end the cycle before it’s too late. at this point, you should now bait them to continue one last time. if they take the bait, your plan of discrediting them by making them “look more foolish” (a suggested insult from step 2) has begun. if they don’t take the bait, you can now claim to be the one who’s right, because they couldn’t out argue you, and you are now the last man standing. you shall be from thence forth known as……


Champion of the Internet!!!


Good one! That was a clever write-up. You forgot the last one though: When you have no answers for the questions you're asked, write a clever write up that you think makes you look like some sort of an internet savant, while subtly (or not so subtly) taking jabs at the other person.

Whatever makes you sleep at night. From now on I'm just gonna play on the safe side of the fence and not respond to anything you post, regardless of how much I disagree with it and how completely asinine I think it might be. In the long run it'll probably save me from actually insulting you and getting booted or something.

Read. Think. Post. In that order, preferably

"If the Playstation and Xbox are like the Bloods and the Crips, then the Wii is whatever gang Sha Na Na was in" - Christian Finnegan
bbexperience is offline  
post #733 of 7006 Old 04-08-2011, 05:29 PM
AVS Special Member
 
barrelbelly's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 1,734
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 71 Post(s)
Liked: 236
Quote:
Originally Posted by mbyrnes View Post

Thanks for the laugh. That was good!

I second the and double the

But is the clever Alpha laughing with us

or at us
barrelbelly is offline  
post #734 of 7006 Old 04-08-2011, 09:30 PM
AVS Special Member
 
gameboy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Posts: 1,786
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Liked: 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by dragonyeuw View Post

If I may, with regards to the concept of an all DD console, Gamespot is the largest gaming chain in North America, yes? That being the case, what's the odds that they support a DD console that effectively would take away their biggest revenue source, that being used games? I'm sure that's A-ok with MS, Sony, Nintendo, etc but how big a blow would it be to one of those companies if Gamespot refused to carry their console because it was DD only? Sure there are other places to buy game consoles, but surely retailers would have to be consulted as to whether they'd actually carry an all-DD console?

I don't think this will be an issue, because everybody is deathly afraid of becoming the next Blockbuster.

Gamespot would be smart to adopt and survive rather than stay the same and perish. DD as the main method of buying a game (or any digital content) is coming, it is just a question of when.

Which is the whole reason why Gamespot just bought a digital distribution company. They are not going to pick and choose consoles when their whole business model is so precarious. I believe if Microsoft offers a way to sell DD content at Gamespot stores they would jump at that chance and would gladly transform their business to fit the new model.

BR is not part of that picture between Gamespot and Microsoft.
gameboy is offline  
post #735 of 7006 Old 04-08-2011, 09:36 PM
AVS Special Member
 
gameboy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Posts: 1,786
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Liked: 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yrd View Post

The usb hardware isn't the biggest issue. It's the cost of the memory chips.

Not if DD costs are lower.

Let say PS4 prices their titles at $69.95. With DD titles, Microsoft can offer the same title for Next Xbox at $59.95 since they can cut out the middlemen. And if they can undercut PS4 with DD prices, Microsoft won't care if USB stick games cost $75.95, because they can still tout that Xbox games are significantly cheaper than PS4 while keeping the same cost margin for physical copies.
gameboy is offline  
post #736 of 7006 Old 04-09-2011, 09:01 AM
AVS Special Member
 
tgable's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 3,363
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 11 Post(s)
Liked: 78
Quote:
Originally Posted by gameboy View Post

Not if DD costs are lower.

Let say PS4 prices their titles at $69.95. With DD titles, Microsoft can offer the same title for Next Xbox at $59.95 since they can cut out the middlemen. And if they can undercut PS4 with DD prices, Microsoft won't care if USB stick games cost $75.95, because they can still tout that Xbox games are significantly cheaper than PS4 while keeping the same cost margin for physical copies.

You are dreaming. How are those DD full game prices on XBL now? Oh ya, they cost more than retail. Again, you are dreaming up things that will never take place. The status quo is going to happen, they will sell games on disc at retail stores. DD will be an alternate like it is now.

Now playing: Destiny, Madden, Diablo 3, PvZ: GW
Recently Finished: Infamous: First Light, Watch Dogs
PSN & XBL: Scuzzlebutt33
tgable is offline  
post #737 of 7006 Old 04-09-2011, 09:10 AM
AVS Special Member
 
gameboy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Posts: 1,786
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Liked: 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by tgable View Post

The status quo is going to happen, they will sell games on disc at retail stores. DD will be an alternate like it is now.

The status quo is changing. Every indicator is leading that way. Just go ask anyone in the business.
gameboy is offline  
post #738 of 7006 Old 04-09-2011, 10:14 AM
AVS Special Member
 
barrelbelly's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 1,734
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 71 Post(s)
Liked: 236
Quote:
Originally Posted by gameboy View Post

Not if DD costs are lower.

Let say PS4 prices their titles at $69.95. With DD titles, Microsoft can offer the same title for Next Xbox at $59.95 since they can cut out the middlemen. And if they can undercut PS4 with DD prices, Microsoft won't care if USB stick games cost $75.95, because they can still tout that Xbox games are significantly cheaper than PS4 while keeping the same cost margin for physical copies.

Gameboy. You keep talking about a PS4 as if Sony plans to do one in response to the Nexgen XBox. Sony clearly and emphatically stated that the PS3 was anticipated to last over 2-3 generations with just improvements and modifications. They advertised the PS3 as the console that was ready for the future. They already have a Blu-Ray player, streaming and DD in the PS3. They could easily add a USB 3.0, an external 1TB Sata drive or any kind of flash drive port to a PS3, and be good to go. MY point is this. Why do they even need a "PS4" to respond to MS? They don't IMO. It is MS that better change, or Sony will zoom past them with PS3 and the myriad of changes it can accomodate before MS ever gets to NEX Gen. And MS is planning to do just that with NEXBox.

IMO if MS does offer a Blu-Ray Player with NEXBox, it will be a very slim profile, barebones addon like Kinect. With no extra features or BD-Live whatsoever. It would exist only to playback Blu-Ray movies for its loyal customers who want the feature. Any firmware updates would have to go through HD-i on the NEX Box, or HD-7 and/or a JAVA applet on a PC. I would expect all of the HD heavy lifting to be done by NexBox' own high storage, proprietary, internal HD Optical drive.

And I suspect Sony would be fine with that arrangement. Because they could sell Sony movies through XBox and keep their games exclusive with Blu-Ray. Sun Micro and BR Group may not bite on it though. But it is the only way I could see Blu-Ray happening in a NexBox. And I would give it only a 1% chance or less of happening under those special circumstances.

And IMO a DD only NEXBox is off the charts stupid for MS to do. They would literally be committing suicide for XBox by forcing a system onto the market that is not universally wanted right now. And threaten to tick off many of their users, retailers, developers, suppliers and strategic partners. XBox group can't exist in a vaccuum in MS. Windows is the engine that drives that power plant. And if the NexBox Group did anything that threatened that franchise at retail or anywhere else...Whew....well it would never happen. So no need saying it.
barrelbelly is offline  
post #739 of 7006 Old 04-09-2011, 09:23 PM
AVS Special Member
 
mbyrnes's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Media, PA (outside Philly)
Posts: 3,497
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 83 Post(s)
Liked: 177
Barrelbelly: Sony has said some pretty stupid things before. They will basically say whatever they want and say something different later. When they were trying to sell a $600 console, they wanted people to think it would last longer. It didn't cost that much because it was "future proof". It cost that much because of R&D of Cell and BR. The PS3 is starting to look dated just as much as the 360. They may have said that the PS3 is future proof or however you want to word it, but reality is the GPU and CPU are being pushed to the limits. They will release a console right around the Nexbox.

Hell I own both systems and almost always buy the 360 version because it usually runs better. Sony loves making difficult to program consoles. They need to knock it off and give developers tools to make programming games easier.

I would be completely shocked if Sony didn't release a console the same or a year after the Nexbox. PS3 can't compete with Nexbox having 8-10x the RAM, and Processing power.

Xbox Live: TheRealMaxPower --- PSN: TheRealMaxPower

 

Panasonic TC-P65VT60    Vienna Acoustic Mozart Grands    Onkyo TX-SR805   Sony BDP-S790

Astro Mixamp 2013   Schiit Modi    AKG K702 65th Anniversary   Antlion ModMic    Sennheiser PC360

Theater- Benq W1070    Elite 120" projection...

mbyrnes is offline  
post #740 of 7006 Old 04-10-2011, 12:17 AM
AVS Special Member
 
confidenceman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 7,984
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 37
Quote:
Originally Posted by gameboy View Post
Not if DD costs are lower.

Let say PS4 prices their titles at $69.95. With DD titles, Microsoft can offer the same title for Next Xbox at $59.95 since they can cut out the middlemen. And if they can undercut PS4 with DD prices, Microsoft won't care if USB stick games cost $75.95, because they can still tout that Xbox games are significantly cheaper than PS4 while keeping the same cost margin for physical copies.
You're piling speculation on top of speculation on top of speculation. Though I admit that that's pretty much what this thread is all about, it seems like there should be some limits to how far we're willing to stretch.

First of all, pricing for full retail boxed releases is unlikely to change any time soon. Other than during the PS1 generation (when prices actually dropped), prices for new games have remained pretty much consistent since the late 1980s ($60). The idea that prices would suddenly increase next generation--especially in light of the very low prices of DD games--is ignorant of industry history.

Second, I have no idea why you keep pushing this "USB stick" idea. It won't happen. They would be unreliable, inconvenient, and unnecessarily expensive to produce.

Third, pricing is already proving to be variable within and across platforms. Some games are just a few dollars, many console DD games are $10-20, Kinect and Move games are $40, and brand new AAA titles are $60. Meanwhile, Wii games have been "undercutting" PS3 and 360 by selling the majority of their games in the $40-50 range. Ultimately, it's not about underpricing the competition (as PS1 did with N64). It's about out-marketing the competition.

Fourth, DD pricing is all about perceived value. The problem that DD has had so far (and has yet to overcome) is that it is still not competitive with physical media costs. Physical media tend to drop in price over time, but not DD. There's no consistency between the two. One might think that DD would be cheaper, but it only is cheaper for lower cost DD games in the $10-20 range, not in the $40-60 range.

I could go on, but you've made so many baseless speculations that it's a little too easy.

PSN & XBL ID: drop me a private message
confidenceman is offline  
post #741 of 7006 Old 04-10-2011, 07:17 AM
AVS Special Member
 
coyote_5's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 2,775
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 140
I thought Xbox 360 titles increased to $60 from the Xbox price of $50. Am I not remembering correctly?

XBOX Live: Ell Dudereno
coyote_5 is offline  
post #742 of 7006 Old 04-10-2011, 09:24 AM
AVS Special Member
 
barrelbelly's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 1,734
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 71 Post(s)
Liked: 236
Quote:
Originally Posted by mbyrnes View Post

Barrelbelly: Sony has said some pretty stupid things before. They will basically say whatever they want and say something different later. When they were trying to sell a $600 console, they wanted people to think it would last longer. It didn't cost that much because it was "future proof". It cost that much because of R&D of Cell and BR. The PS3 is starting to look dated just as much as the 360. They may have said that the PS3 is future proof or however you want to word it, but reality is the GPU and CPU are being pushed to the limits. They will release a console right around the Nexbox.

Hell I own both systems and almost always buy the 360 version because it usually runs better. Sony loves making difficult to program consoles. They need to knock it off and give developers tools to make programming games easier.

I would be completely shocked if Sony didn't release a console the same or a year after the Nexbox. PS3 can't compete with Nexbox having 8-10x the RAM, and Processing power.

MByrnes:
I don't really disagree with your argument. It is very plausible. All I'm saying is there is less need for PS3 to do a complete makeover and call it a PS4. They could just modify the internals of the PS3 to achieve this. But I see your point. Form Sony's POV it could be, where's the money in that?

I own both systems too. I just like the overall XBox experience much more. But that could easily change in the next generation, if MS reduces my options instead of making my current options much better. And PS3 improves dramatically.
barrelbelly is offline  
post #743 of 7006 Old 04-10-2011, 09:25 AM
AVS Special Member
 
dragonyeuw's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Earth
Posts: 3,132
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 50
360 and PS3 titles both increased to $60 from last gen. Nintendo was the only company to keep the $50 tag from last gen, though I imagine the production cost for the average Wii title is less than the typical PS3/360 game( just a guess)......

Too many systems and games....not enough time or money!

dragonyeuw is offline  
post #744 of 7006 Old 04-10-2011, 10:01 AM
AVS Special Member
 
barrelbelly's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 1,734
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 71 Post(s)
Liked: 236
I like DD only for old cheaper arcade type games, cheaper old XBox original games and added content for new games. The added content seems to cost the same at retail as it does on XBox Live. But I overwhelmingly prefer new full priced games and used "try'em & return'em" games on disc. Like many others on this thread, I would not buy a system that offered DD as the only option. Regardless of how good my internet speed is. I want the physical proof of my ownership to buy and trade.

Confidenceman:
Good argument. I would suggest though, that when a game launches numerous $10-$20Addons right after the release of popular games like ME2, Fable, Halo, Prince of Persia & etc. The real game cost can quickly add up to $70-$100. In my view that tactic by game developers is just plain slight of hand trickery. They are just splitting a full game into incomplete parts to charge us more for it. They could easily release those games with the addons included as part of the total game package. But I sure don't begrudge them for making money, if I'm willing to spend it.

I think the continued practice of bigger game Addons like Halo ODST on disc and DD is a partial reason why the Nexgen console doesn't need optical disc storage beyond 30-50 gig. If DD is going to accelerate as part of 2 part game launches like it did with XBox 360, even a 15 gig red laser disc system might be enough. In other words, The bulk of a new game could be on a 15 gig 3 x DVD disc with an abbreviated experience for casual level/introductory gaming. But a full 15-20 gig expansion could be marketed via DD as a normal-elite-expert level expansion. Or a full HDDVD 51 disc with the full experience with the addons could be launched later in the cycle. That would certainly be a more profitable road map for MS, game devs, and retail. I wouldn't be surprised to see MS and Sony dabble more with that type of price modeling, due to the enormous success of DD addons on the 360 and XBox Live.

Some excellent points in your argument though.
barrelbelly is offline  
post #745 of 7006 Old 04-10-2011, 07:31 PM
AVS Special Member
 
tgable's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 3,363
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 11 Post(s)
Liked: 78
Quote:
Originally Posted by dragonyeuw View Post

360 and PS3 titles both increased to $60 from last gen. Nintendo was the only company to keep the $50 tag from last gen, though I imagine the production cost for the average Wii title is less than the typical PS3/360 game( just a guess)......

Prices went up because of the huge increase in cost making modern games. Wii could not justify the increase, it had the same basic specs as the GC. Relative to inflation, games are cheaper then they have ever been. I remember paying $60 for a Sega Master System game in the 80s.

Now playing: Destiny, Madden, Diablo 3, PvZ: GW
Recently Finished: Infamous: First Light, Watch Dogs
PSN & XBL: Scuzzlebutt33
tgable is offline  
post #746 of 7006 Old 04-10-2011, 07:52 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Osirus23's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 1,220
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5 Post(s)
Liked: 180
Quote:
Originally Posted by tgable View Post

Prices went up because of the huge increase in cost making modern games. Wii could not justify the increase, it had the same basic specs as the GC. Relative to inflation, games are cheaper then they have ever been. I remember paying $60 for a Sega Master System game in the 80s.

Yep. I paid up to $60 for retail SNES titles in the mid 90s too, makes me roll my eyes pretty hard when I hear someone whine about how "they jacked up the price of games."
Osirus23 is offline  
post #747 of 7006 Old 04-10-2011, 10:36 PM
Yrd
AVS Special Member
 
Yrd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Elkton, MD
Posts: 3,000
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 184 Post(s)
Liked: 191
It cost a lot more manufacture cartridge games. Games got cheaper when CDs became the format.

XBL Gamertag- Yrd
PSN - Yerd

Steam - Yrd

Yrd is online now  
post #748 of 7006 Old 04-11-2011, 08:43 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Lord Flatus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Vista, CA
Posts: 2,360
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Liked: 28
Y'all do realize that game prices are based on what the market will support and not on development costs or anything else, right?

If people would only pay $40, they'd be $40. If people start paying $75, they'll cost $75. Development budgets will scale accordingly.
Lord Flatus is offline  
post #749 of 7006 Old 04-11-2011, 08:52 AM
AVS Special Member
 
coyote_5's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 2,775
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 140
Wait, people are going to start paying $75 for games tagged at $60?

XBOX Live: Ell Dudereno
coyote_5 is offline  
post #750 of 7006 Old 04-11-2011, 08:55 AM
AVS Special Member
 
dragonyeuw's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Earth
Posts: 3,132
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by tgable View Post

Prices went up because of the huge increase in cost making modern games. Wii could not justify the increase, it had the same basic specs as the GC.

Yes, I more or less said that in my prior post. PS3/360 games costs more to produce, and the pricetag reflects that...

Too many systems and games....not enough time or money!

dragonyeuw is offline  
Closed Thread Xbox Area

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off